On 17/06/17 06:33 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

James Bunnell wrote:

...

I have the regular super user konsole. but the konsole that is supposed to be the regular konsole prompts for a password each time i open it. i have tried the profile thing, no avail. any ideas as to why this is? thanks.

Which app is this exactly? I don't have any "super user konsole", only konsole. It always opens with one tab.

I run KDE and Konsole # zypper info konsole Information for package konsole: -------------------------------- Repository: openSUSE-Leap-42.1-Update Name: konsole Version: 15.12.3-23.1 Arch: x86_64 Vendor: openSUSE Installed: Yes Status: up-to-date Installed Size: 420.5 KiB Summary: KDE Terminal Description: Konsole is a terminal emulator for the K Desktop Environment. I have four tabs that come up whenever I log in. Three are just regular , one is the root. ALL prompt me for something. The regular ones are login-equivilent and run the .profile and .bash_profile, and prompt me for my SSH/GPG passphrase for that session; i have the relevant code in the .bash_profile This is because in the config it is set to command: /bin/bash -l Please see the man page. For the root, I have command: su - Again please see the man page. In short, use of "su -" will set the PATH. (See note in /etc/default/su) Please realise that since konsole is running from my KDE login and I logged in as 'anton', konsole is running as usi=anton. So the "bash -l" is run as uid='anton' and uses the ~anton/.bash-profile. Furhter, the "su -" runs as uid='anton' So of course it asks for a password! What can I do about that? Well, three is a way to make su password-less, but I don't think it's a good idea. (For example: the use of 'wheel' group) What you may want is a konsole specific solution solution. That means giving a different "command". You might, for example, set up a very specific 'sudo' config -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 17/06/17 08:01 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

Anton, how is your custom config possibly relevant here? I also have my own configs, but they're just as irrelevant.

Irrelevant to what? I understood quite clearly what James Bunnel meant by the super user konsole where you didn't; I understood his usage with the password prompt because that's the way I have it configured. You, with only one tab, don't seem to "get it". I have four tabs every time konsole starts, whether that's because I start it automagically with KDE when it starts, or when I bring it up manually. That's in my config. konsole is very flexible in teh way it starts up, what command you start with. I can, if I choose, run an application directly on startup. It doesn't have to be a shell. "Obvious" you say? Well, yes, but that's not the "automatic" you get if you "File _> New tab". If you "File -> New Tab -> Root Shell" you get a password prompt for the new root shell tab to "su -". Of course that can be changed: look in, variously ~/.kde4/share/apps/konsole/Root Shell.profile ~/.local/share/konsole/Root Shell.profile Look for [General] Command=su - And/Or the system wide defaults at: /usr/share/kde4/apps/konsole/Root Shell.profile /usr/share/konsole/Root Shell.profile Why you get only one tab, I don't know. Its your config. obviously you've set it up that way. Obviously you haven't changed any of the defaults, either for the specific tab, or for the way the new tab mechanism works. I think that now that James knows about the mechanism he can make intelligent decisions about what he wants, experiment with how to set konsole up to his exact needs. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 17/06/17 10:33 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Wols Lists [06-17-17 09:44]:

...

On 17/06/17 10:32, James Bunnell wrote:

...

I have the regular super user konsole. but the konsole that is supposed to be the regular konsole prompts for a password each time i open it. i have tried the profile thing, no avail. any ideas as to why this is? thanks.

Seems to me the problem is you have both root and user konsoles together. I find, whenever I su in a konsole, it remembers that and tries to run it as root next time. It causes grief for a few logins until it goes away - and even if I give it the root password it appears to do absolutely nothing with it ...

Short answer: it looks like root konsoles are buggy.

or you have *some* configuration borked.

I agree. Or perhaps you're "fighting it" rather than making use of the mechanisms it has.

I do not observe the problems you describe.

neither do I and I'm brutal user at times.

I rarely have reason to hunt for another console window rather than utilizing the regular konsole

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I never have to "hunt" since (a) I have a number of tabs open on my Konsole, and its on one of my KDE "virtual desktops", of which I have six configured and can see them on my bottom panel, and (b) I can add another tab with a "Ctl-Shift-T". (Or mouse to the menu bar and "File -> New Tab".)

and simply "su -". but I have never opened <user> konsole and be asked to> provide a password, in any of my many years years on suse versions of linux.

Since there is the option "File -> New tab -> Root Shell", I question the necessity of doing a "su -" in an exiting user shell tab. As I've said. I have four tabs, 3 of them just user and one for root. The system remembers those when I shut down. It also remembers the directories I was in for each tab. I think that some people in this thread haven't experimented adequately, drilled down on the various 9broken, so use the web_ help, run it under 'strace' to see what config files it access .... and so on and so on. If Per feels I'm being snarky, all power to him. As far as i'm concerned, looking to see what each item on the menu bar does is a a fundamental. Looking to see what config files get used is a fundamental. As regular user of konsole in shell mode I have no reason to suspect that it is buggy. It seems a well behaved and quite robust program to me. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin [06-17-17 20:19]: [...]

Anton, I bought my new car 3 years ago and I have never raised the hood to look at the engine. I just drive the car. I have no interest in what makes it run -- well, I do know that it needs petrol, which I buy when it needs it, and I keep the tyres at the correct pressure. That's it. Oh, and it goes through the car wash when necessary :-).

The OP and others, including myself, have no need to do what you do with your setup of konsole. For us konsole just works, either in user- or root-mode. Simple. The OP is simply asking why his konsole is not working in this simple mode :-).

*you* made the choice to use linux, *you* are the admin of your linux system unless you convince some kind sole to take on the task or pay someone. if you care not about "what is under the hood", you are destine to live with what you get/have. as for konsole *just* working, the op's does not the way he wants and he cannot determine why. but he does not appear willing to take the steps to determine a solution with the help from here. all the words being bantered here provide much reading but to what end? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* James Bunnell [06-17-17 21:44]:

Patrick Shanahan:

...

*you* made the choice to use linux, *you* are the admin of your linux system unless you convince some kind sole to take on the task or pay someone. if you care not about "what is under the hood", you are destine to live with what you get/have.

as for konsole *just* working, the op's does not the way he wants and he cannot determine why. but he does not appear willing to take the steps to determine a solution with the help from here.

all the words being bantered here provide much reading but to what end?

more directed at "wol" but... feelings have no place, determining what happened is paramount to providing a solution and so far, it is still very foggy. I still believe in your case you have either a bad install or have made a change w/o realizing it and cannot remember. see other post for way forward. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-06-18 03:36, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Basil Chupin [06-17-17 20:19]: [...]

...

Anton, I bought my new car 3 years ago and I have never raised the hood to look at the engine. I just drive the car. I have no interest in what makes it run -- well, I do know that it needs petrol, which I buy when it needs it, and I keep the tyres at the correct pressure. That's it. Oh, and it goes through the car wash when necessary :-).

The OP and others, including myself, have no need to do what you do with your setup of konsole. For us konsole just works, either in user- or root-mode. Simple. The OP is simply asking why his konsole is not working in this simple mode :-).

I know what is under the hood of my car. Generally, that is. When it breaks down, I have to call the mechanic. It broke down recently. The fuel pipe going out of the fuel pump got loose. I called my road insurance chaps, to come and rescue me. They came with a truck platform. The chap, a mechanic, looked at it. We'd better take it to your brand garage, he said. So he loaded my car into his platform. The rubber pipe has a quick engage plastic thing. It is not a plain pipe which you can just connect and tie with a string on emergency. Impossible to repair yourself, you have to buy the replacement.

*you* made the choice to use linux, *you* are the admin of your linux system unless you convince some kind sole to take on the task or pay someone. if you care not about "what is under the hood", you are destine to live with what you get/have.

It is not as simple as that, nowdays. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 17/06/17 08:00 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

Same here -- ne'er a problem with konsole-user and konsole-root.

(Just a point to ponder: I always do a clean install and have never upgraded from one version of oS to the next version (using, say, zypper dup). I do this in case baggage remains to affect the newer version.)

Hmm. My setting, that is in ~/.kde[4] and ~/.local and ~/.config, are under /home, and while i reformat the partition with the OS on, that is the /bin, /lib, /ust/bin, /usr/lib and so on, I preserve all the stuff under .home (as well as my web stuff under /srv and other stuff that's under /var such as the DNS config, the mail caches and pending transactions, cron tables and other schedules). In particular, the customized settings for konsole are preserved across upgrades of the OS. I've used both 'zypper dup' with a DVD. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 18/06/17 12:42, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 18/06/17 11:15, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 17/06/17 08:00 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

BC

PS Another interesting point: your e-mail address has changed from the one you used in the private msg to me.

Scratch that. Mea culpa. Your address had not changed :-). BC -- Government has become a committee for managing the affairs of the rich. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Wols Lists [06-17-17 20:22]:

On 17/06/17 15:33, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Wols Lists [06-17-17 09:44]:

...

On 17/06/17 10:32, James Bunnell wrote:

...

I have the regular super user konsole. but the konsole that is supposed to be the regular konsole prompts for a password each time i open it. i have tried the profile thing, no avail. any ideas as to why this is? thanks.

Seems to me the problem is you have both root and user konsoles together. I find, whenever I su in a konsole, it remembers that and tries to run it as root next time. It causes grief for a few logins until it goes away - and even if I give it the root password it appears to do absolutely nothing with it ...

Short answer: it looks like root konsoles are buggy.

or you have *some* configuration borked. I do not observe the problems you describe. I rarely have reason to hunt for another console window rather than utilizing the regular konsole and simply "su -". but I have never opened <user> konsole and be asked to provide a password, in any of my many years years on suse versions of linux.

Short answer: I don't like it when computers do weird things for no obvious reason.

To describe my setup, I leave ONE console open, usually with three or four tabs. I regularly "su" in one or more of those tabs when I want access to root.

When I log in, konsole may or may not ask me for the root password. It only starts if I left a tab in root mode last session, but if I give it the root password it does nothing - I don't get a root tab. And it will keep on prompting for the password for the next few logins, even if I don't su in a tab again ...

As I say. It's weird. And to me inexplicable. I don't like it. (And I don't particularly want to waste time trying to track down the cause. I suspect it's not remembering my config properly.)

explaining your setup and what you want is fine but did not lead to the problem you experience and describe. you are the admin of your linux box and you did something which you cannot remember that made a change to your system which you do not like or want. do not blame the software or the developers or .... the origin of your problem can be seen when you look into the mirror. you could always go to windows where the provider tells you what you can do and how you can do it and receives much pay for channeling your efforts to their advantage. or you can try to systematically try and/or investigate the suggestions provided here. the rest of the conversation about wants or don't wants and like or dislikes only consume time and cause frustration and wasted efforts. sorry I must stop now, I do not wish to be as verbose as .... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* James Bunnell [06-17-17 21:39]:

Patrick Shanahan:

...

explaining your setup and what you want is fine but did not lead to the problem you experience and describe. you are the admin of your linux box and you did something which you cannot remember that made a change to your system which you do not like or want. do not blame the software or the developers or .... the origin of your problem can be seen when you look into the mirror.

you could always go to windows where the provider tells you what you can do and how you can do it and receives much pay for channeling your efforts to their advantage.

or you can try to systematically try and/or investigate the suggestions provided here. the rest of the conversation about wants or don't wants and like or dislikes only consume time and cause frustration and wasted efforts.

sorry I must stop now, I do not wish to be as verbose as ....

what everyone seems to overlook, or perhaps i didnt mention it, it is a fresh install, not an updated to tumbleweed install, not a month old install. it is a 1 day old install. thanks.

something is still amiss. I am typing on a box I installed yesterday Leap 42.2 because the live Tw install failed three times. I then dup'd to Tw and made no config changes to konsole, but it definitely does not act as you describe. I suggest for a quick test you try two things. make a new user and try konsole in that user's logon move ~/.config somewhere and logout/login and try konsole again. you will have to move destroy the new ~/.config and replace it with your original version. but these two actions should provide a way forward. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 17/06/17 09:55 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

may also be necessary to include ~/.local with ~/.config in the move and replace.

It is easy enough to run a 'find' looking for ''konsol*' under "~". I did that to determine where such files (and where the templates in /usr/share were) for an earlier post in this thread. No 'programme engineer' here, just pretty straight forward CLI stuff, finding where a file is. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 18/06/17 11:37, James Bunnell wrote:

Patrick Shanahan:

...

explaining your setup and what you want is fine but did not lead to the problem you experience and describe. you are the admin of your linux box and you did something which you cannot remember that made a change to your system which you do not like or want. do not blame the software or the developers or .... the origin of your problem can be seen when you look into the mirror.

you could always go to windows where the provider tells you what you can do and how you can do it and receives much pay for channeling your efforts to their advantage.

or you can try to systematically try and/or investigate the suggestions provided here. the rest of the conversation about wants or don't wants and like or dislikes only consume time and cause frustration and wasted efforts.

sorry I must stop now, I do not wish to be as verbose as ....

what everyone seems to overlook, or perhaps i didnt mention it, it is a fresh install, not an updated to tumbleweed install, not a month old install. it is a 1 day old install. thanks.

And another thing not mentioned so far -- or I missed it? -- is which version of ? are you talking about? You just mentioned Tumbleweed. Are you talking about TW or Leap 42.2 or 42.3 Beta (which, BTW, works b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l-l-y :-) )? BC -- Government has become a committee for managing the affairs of the rich. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin:

On 18/06/17 11:37, James Bunnell wrote:

...

Patrick Shanahan:

...

explaining your setup and what you want is fine but did not lead to the problem you experience and describe. you are the admin of your linux box and you did something which you cannot remember that made a change to your system which you do not like or want. do not blame the software or the developers or .... the origin of your problem can be seen when you look into the mirror.

you could always go to windows where the provider tells you what you can do and how you can do it and receives much pay for channeling your efforts to their advantage.

or you can try to systematically try and/or investigate the suggestions provided here. the rest of the conversation about wants or don't wants and like or dislikes only consume time and cause frustration and wasted efforts.

sorry I must stop now, I do not wish to be as verbose as ....

what everyone seems to overlook, or perhaps i didnt mention it, it is a fresh install, not an updated to tumbleweed install, not a month old install. it is a 1 day old install. thanks.

And another thing not mentioned so far -- or I missed it? -- is which version of ? are you talking about? You just mentioned Tumbleweed. Are you talking about TW or Leap 42.2 or 42.3 Beta (which, BTW, works b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l-l-y :-) )?

BC

I guess I should note, that my first computer was in '97 when I was in grad school to get through it. I was a late bloomer as I was over 40 when I graduated. I started with linux in '99 and ran it till '06. I then went to windows 7 because of life complications and didnt have the time to play with linux (as one might say; cancer). I bought a mac in '11 and loved it. It recently died completely. I had no computer for two weeks. A friend from out of town sent me a HP laptop and I also inherited my wife's old HP. So my choice was go back to linux or pay out 200 dollars to Microsoft for win 10 which I personally despise and don't like the spying. I am new back to linux at over 10 yrs later. My latest choice of distro is openSUSE. I downloaded Leap 42.2 onto a dvd and installed from there. Today, while napping, I did a zypper dup for Tumbleweed. Konsole is still the same. I've come to the conclusion nothing is perfect and I'll live with it. I just want to stay with one distro for some time. Before, in the day, I started with the original Redhat 6 and Debian. Messed with Ubuntu a little bit. Anyway, this is the end of my long biography and excuses. thanks guys. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 17/06/17 08:19 PM, Wols Lists wrote:

On 17/06/17 15:33, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Wols Lists [06-17-17 09:44]:

...

On 17/06/17 10:32, James Bunnell wrote:

...

I have the regular super user konsole. but the konsole that is supposed to be the regular konsole prompts for a password each time i open it. i have tried the profile thing, no avail. any ideas as to why this is? thanks.

Seems to me the problem is you have both root and user konsoles together. I find, whenever I su in a konsole, it remembers that and tries to run it as root next time. It causes grief for a few logins until it goes away - and even if I give it the root password it appears to do absolutely nothing with it ...

Short answer: it looks like root konsoles are buggy.

or you have *some* configuration borked. I do not observe the problems you describe. I rarely have reason to hunt for another console window rather than utilizing the regular konsole and simply "su -". but I have never opened <user> konsole and be asked to provide a password, in any of my many years years on suse versions of linux.

Short answer: I don't like it when computers do weird things for no obvious reason.

Granted. But the reason may not be obvious to you or you may be making different assumptions from the implementer. I find that all the time when I'm compelled to use Windows! I wouldn't be so quick to insist the "I'm right and the program is broken" when no-one else seems to have your problem. I'd work on the suggestions offered and try to determine in more details what the problem is, what the boundaries are, even without "going under the hood". I've managed to do that for a few decades without ever needed to refer to the source code :-)

To describe my setup, I leave ONE console open, usually with three or four tabs. I regularly "su" in one or more of those tabs when I want access to root.

Just our of interests, why do you "su" in one of the exiting user shells rather than "ctl-shift-T" and create a new root shell tab? Hmm. Tomorrow I'll try your way and see if I have any difficulties.

When I log in, konsole may or may not ask me for the root password. It only starts if I left a tab in root mode last session,

OK, I don't understand what you mean. I'm presuming that you log in to KDE and from there start konsole. So konsole is running under the ID you logged into KDE as. Was that your own ID or as root? How do you start konsole? From the menu of as a command line? When I shut down my KDE session it shuts down konsole as well; I have, always, 4 tabs, three regular shells and one root shell. As I said, the config is "bash -l" and "su -" so they are *all* as if login. if I were to start "su -" from any shell, it doesn't matter whether it was a shell session at a proper Vt or a konsole user tab, it would prompt me for a password IF THAT SHELL WAS RUNNING AS A NON-ROOT USER. Oh, unless I played around with settings in /etc/pam.d and /etc/group in a very specific manner that let me do things as root without the needs for password or using 'sudo'. But, even though that's documented, so you don't do 'under the hood things', its not something you're likely to have done. And I'd recommend you don't. And that I did once to see if it worked, and it did, but I'm not doing it again. Sort of like pouring some whizz-bang chemical into your gas tank so your takes of like a Kangaroo with a rocket up its ass.

but if I give it the root password it does nothing - I don't get a root tab.

Doing a 'su" or a "su -" in an existing shell won't give you a new tab. you need to create a a new tab, and make it a root tab while your about it.

And it will keep on prompting for the password for the next few logins, even if I don't su in a tab again ...

Of course, it remembers your settings.

As I say. It's weird. And to me inexplicable.

It may seem weired but it's no inexpecable. its logical, just not the logic you are presuming.

I don't like it. (And I don't particularly want to waste time trying to track down the cause. I suspect it's not remembering my config properly.)

It's remembering them 'properly' by the logic that the designer/coder put there. That this isn't the same assumptions that you're making is the issue. I'm accepting the designers assumptions so its not a problem for me. Nor, it seems, is it a problem for Patrick or some others. This isn't about some absolute right vs absolute wrong. Why not write to the designer/coder and explain your assumption and why you think teh way tis working is wrong. I've found FOSS coders are very willing to discuss and modify their work. Actually I set up my options way bask in 11.<something> and since then never touched them until this question came up. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin [06-17-17 23:38]:

On 18/06/17 11:42, Anton Aylward wrote:

[pruned]

...

Doing a 'su" or a "su -" in an existing shell won't give you a new tab.

Bearing in mind that there is a difference between "su" and "su -" when used.

"su" will only give root privileges for the task you are doing while "su -" give you full root privileges for the whole system.

no, su and "su -" give same system wide perms but "su -" gives you roots normal environment, ie: environment variables such as editor, ... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin [06-17-17 23:57]:

On 18/06/17 13:41, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Basil Chupin [06-17-17 23:38]:

...

On 18/06/17 11:42, Anton Aylward wrote:

[pruned]

...

Doing a 'su" or a "su -" in an existing shell won't give you a new tab. Bearing in mind that there is a difference between "su" and "su -" when used.

"su" will only give root privileges for the task you are doing while "su -" give you full root privileges for the whole system. no, su and "su -" give same system wide perms but "su -" gives you roots normal environment, ie: environment variables such as editor, ...

Oh OK, but clarification please: what is meant by "as editor" -- what editor?

ah, we are talking about environment variables. the system default editor that is opened by other apps such as cron. start from a commandline and enter: env <enter> and see -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-06-18 14:31, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 18/06/17 07:23 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Basil Chupin [06-17-17 23:57]:

...

...

Oh OK, but clarification please: what is meant by "as editor" -- what editor?

ah, we are talking about environment variables. the system default editor that is opened by other apps such as cron. start from a commandline and enter: env <enter>

and see

Ok, sut to the chase.

Running just "su" alone meremly changes your effective UID. By default, it is to root, but could to to another user. It does not alter HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH. That last one is important. A real root shell expects to have /sbin & /usr/sbin in the PATH HOME is also very important.

The home is not changed, so that files you write being root (or another user) are written in the user's home. It can thus happen that config files of the user become inaccessible to the user. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 19/06/17 16:37, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 19/06/17 05:47 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

Running just "su" alone meremly changes your effective UID. By default, it is to root, but could to to another user. It does not alter HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH. That last one is important. A real root shell expects to have /sbin & /usr/sbin in the PATH HOME is also very important.

The home is not changed, so that files you write being root (or another user) are written in the user's home. It can thus happen that config files of the user become inaccessible to the user.

that is a very, very good point, Carlos. "Unwanted Side Effects".

That could actually explain what is happening to me :-) konsole spots that the config file was saved by root, and asks for the root password so it can read it! I'd be a little surprised if it's that clever, but it does make sense... Cheers, Wol -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-06-19 17:48, Wols Lists wrote:

On 19/06/17 16:37, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 19/06/17 05:47 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

Running just "su" alone meremly changes your effective UID. By default, it is to root, but could to to another user. It does not alter HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH. That last one is important. A real root shell expects to have /sbin & /usr/sbin in the PATH HOME is also very important.

The home is not changed, so that files you write being root (or another user) are written in the user's home. It can thus happen that config files of the user become inaccessible to the user.

that is a very, very good point, Carlos. "Unwanted Side Effects".

That could actually explain what is happening to me :-)

konsole spots that the config file was saved by root, and asks for the root password so it can read it!

I'd be a little surprised if it's that clever, but it does make sense...

No, I doubt it. It would only mess the konsole config files if you start a terminal, do "su", then start konsole from that terminal. If instead you start konsole normally, open a tab, run "su", then some applications, it is that application config or user files which can get messed. But not konsole. Konsole may remember, however, that you had one terminal using "su" and try to start it up for you again, and somehow failing. In any doubt, just search for files owned by root on your home. find /home/YOU/ -type f -uid 0 -exec ls -l '{}' \; -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 18/06/2017 14:31, Anton Aylward wrote:

Running just "su" alone meremly changes your effective UID. By default, it is to root, but could to to another user. It does not alter HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH. That last one is important. A real root shell expects to have /sbin & /usr/sbin in the PATH AFAIK and this has how it has always been. If I use su, I've never used su -, my $HOME is /root and I have /sbin /usr/sbin added to my user's $PATH. If I install some random propriety software via ./install.sh I have to use sudo otherwise it won't install into my user's $HOME and installs into /root instead. su has always given me full root access in konsole the same as if I had logged in as root in a non x tty. Only sudo echo $HOME gives me my user's home and su'ed shell gives me /root.

Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

...

AFAIK and this has how it has always been. If I use su, I've never used su -, my $HOME is /root and I have /sbin /usr/sbin added to my user's $PATH. You seem to be contradicting yourself. How? I was merely pointing out that /sbin /usr/sbin are added to $PATH in sudo su and su - you appeared to misrepresent this in your statement: "It does not alter HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH." First you agree with me, then you say the opposite.

Perhaps you'd perform a test for me.

1. bring up your system again from boot but in text mode not GUI mode.

2. Log in as a regular user.

3. Run the 'env' command ad save it to a file. /tmp/f1.txt

4. Now do the same, in turn, each of "su" and and "su -", each at the user level prompt. Files F2.txt for the 'su" and F3.txt for the "su -"

Do you get asked for the password for eah of "su" and "su -"? As user execute su and give required password, yes I'm asked for a

On 22/06/2017 13:28, Anton Aylward wrote: password going from user level to root level. If I'm logged in as root via su and I execute su - I'm not asked for a password because I'm already root.

Now do side-by-side "sdiff" (see the man page on this, and you might consider using "diff3") on each combination of the files.

I used diff -y but I should have used sort on the files created from env > myfile.txt before.

Please try reconciling that with what you find when you read the man page for "su".

I've never had use for su apart from just switching users, I use it every time I start my computer in konsole to have my first tab as root in the same directory as my last session, my rpmbuild directory. I've never been asked for a password by konsole and apart from setting white background with black text never touch the settings. I'm not even going to try to duplicate wol's problem by saving a profile after I've su'ed or su-'ed, my problem with konsole failing to start due to a non existent usb drive almost gave me a heart attack. Firefox, thunderbird, konsole, okular, kwrite and midnight commander are my most important applications and if something goes wrong konsole and mc are very important. I'm addicted to the mouse and selecting, scrolling and pasting.

Let me -- or rather the list - know what you observe and what you conclude.

I'm amazed that most of my environment is still there untouched. Still the only important difference I can find between su and su- is $USER

I'm particularly interested in the difference between f2.txt and f3.txt.

In the interests of full disclosure, here's mine; the differ3ence between "su" on the left and "su -" on the right. https://paste.opensuse.org/87356798

As you can see, the "su" keeps a lot of the 'anton' environment.

Exactly what I get.

Of course alot of this is affected by the setting in /etc/pam.d for "su" and "su-l", as well as polkit, /etc/ttydefs, /etc/login.defs, possibly someting in sysconfig, and almost certainly (in my case) changes to /etc/group.

it is also possible that TW is different, and that SLE has made LEAP change, but do check what you observe with the man page. If in fact the behaviour has changed, then the documentation needs changing.

I see there's a -p option to preserve the users environment, may be useful to me in the future. I don't see any contradictions in the man page.

This is what the docco/man page says:

First, it recommends:

It is recommended to always use the --login option (instead of its shortcut -) to avoid side effects caused by mixing environments.

and -l ? I'm going to try env at runlevel 1 out of interest after I've sent this reply. Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 22/06/17 08:43 AM, Dave Plater wrote:

...

Do you get asked for the password for eah of "su" and "su -"?

As user execute su and give required password, yes I'm asked for a password going from user level to root level. If I'm logged in as root via su and I execute su - I'm not asked for a password because I'm already root.

Obviously, but that's not what I asked. Sorry, thypo, but I though it was obvious: 1. Log in as user. This should be SHLVL=1. If its not, then something is very wrong. 2. Run "su". Do you get asked for password? This should be SHLVL=2. 3. Log out of "su" back to user 4. Run "su -". Do you get asked for password? This should be SHLVL=1. I hope you do get asked for password @ #4 -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Dave Plater [06-22-17 09:42]: [...]

I just tested su -p and it leaves out /sbin:/usr/sbin from $PATH maybe some configuration on your machine makes su default to su -p. My su behaves exactly as stated in the man page it allows me to chown root files though. Up to date 42.2 system.

no, "-p" does not get you a login shell for root! and *noone* said it did, you brought "-p" to the table. and there has been no discussion of changing the owner of files. the recent part of the thread is about the difference between "su" and "su -". -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Dave Plater [06-23-17 03:06]:

On 22/06/2017 17:38, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

no, "-p" does not get you a login shell for root! It does for me, full root privileges.

do in konsole: su -p env |sort > env.p.txt ls -la ./env* exit su - env |sort > env.w.txt ls -la ./env* do you see both of the files you just generated? were the files the same size su -p ls -la ./env* do you see both of the files you just generated is root's environment different between the two access methods? can you even see each others files even thou they have the same permissions? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Dave Plater [06-23-17 08:28]:

On 23/06/2017 13:47, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Dave Plater [06-23-17 03:06]:

...

On 22/06/2017 17:38, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

no, "-p" does not get you a login shell for root! It does for me, full root privileges.

do in konsole: su -p env |sort > env.p.txt ls -la ./env* exit su - env |sort > env.w.txt ls -la ./env*

do you see both of the files you just generated? were the files the same size

su -p ls -la ./env*

do you see both of the files you just generated

is root's environment different between the two access methods? can you even see each others files even thou they have the same permissions?

The environments are all different in each flavor of su but in any of them you have root privileges and you are able to alter that environment because you have permissions to do so.

no, they are not. can you see the environment text file generated by "-p" in "su -" or can you see it generated by "-" in "su -p"? I cannot. even the permissions are different althou the displayed file perms are the same. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 22/06/17 08:43 AM, Dave Plater wrote:

I've never had use for su apart from just switching users, I use it every time I start my computer in konsole to have my first tab as root in the same directory as my last session, my rpmbuild directory.

Remarkable! You really don't know how to use konsole then? If I wanted that I'd create a template with that ID and that directory menu: Settings -> Manage profiles -> New profile -> General Set a 'name', set the command to 'su' if you insist, but you're probably better off with "su -" for consistency and more, and set the initial directory. When you Ctl-Shift-T for a new tab this will now be an option. if you instantiate it, and do a proper shutdown, console will remember not only what tabs you had open but the directories you were in. I make great use of that, but then I don't keep firing up "su" in my user tab, I make use of the "ctl-shift-T" to get a new root tab. of course you could also use Menu: Setting -> Change profile. I suggest you experiment a bit with what konsole already offers.

Firefox, thunderbird, konsole, okular, kwrite and midnight commander are my most important applications and if something goes wrong konsole and mc are very important. I'm addicted to the mouse and selecting, scrolling and pasting.

Apart fro MC, the same here. I use Konqeror/Dolphin as my file management. I keep within KDE/Qt?Gtk except when I do a complete command line, which is usually a 'find', or 'grep'. BUT, and this is a big BUT, I do explore the capability of the programs I use, work through what's on the menu, the popups, the different mouse button on different regions. If, as is the case with root tabs, the capability is there, then I exercise it. I might set up a key alias for it. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Op donderdag 22 juni 2017 14:43:14 CEST schreef Dave Plater:

On 22/06/2017 13:28, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

...

AFAIK and this has how it has always been. If I use su, I've never used su -, my $HOME is /root and I have /sbin /usr/sbin added to my user's $PATH.>

'su' according to 'man su' When called without arguments, su defaults to running an interactive shell as root. For backward compatibility, su defaults to not change the current directory and to only set the environment variables HOME and SHELL (plus USER and LOGNAME if the target user is not root) 'su -' and 'su -l' according to 'man su' -, -l, --login Start the shell as a login shell with an environment similar to a real login: This leads to: glosscomputer@knurphtlaptop:/> echo $PATH /home/glosscomputer/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/home/glosscomputer/ Devel/grails//bin/:/usr/lib64/jvm/java/bin:/home/glosscomputer/Devel/grails// bin/:/usr/lib64/jvm/java/bin glosscomputer@knurphtlaptop:/> su Wachtwoord: knurphtlaptop:/ # echo $PATH /home/glosscomputer/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/home/ glosscomputer/Devel/grails//bin/:/usr/lib64/jvm/java/bin:/home/glosscomputer/ Devel/grails//bin/:/usr/lib64/jvm/java/bin knurphtlaptop:/ # exit glosscomputer@knurphtlaptop:/> su - Wachtwoord: knurphtlaptop:~ # echo $PATH /sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/root/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin knurphtlaptop:~ # logout glosscomputer@knurphtlaptop:/> su -l Wachtwoord: knurphtlaptop:~ # echo $PATH /sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/root/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin knurphtlaptop:~ # logout glosscomputer@knurphtlaptop:/> su knurpht Wachtwoord: knurpht@knurphtlaptop:/> echo $PATH /home/glosscomputer/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/home/glosscomputer/ Devel/grails//bin/:/usr/lib64/jvm/java/bin:/home/glosscomputer/Devel/grails// bin/:/usr/lib64/jvm/java/bin knurpht@knurphtlaptop:/> exit glosscomputer@knurphtlaptop:/> su -l knurpht Wachtwoord: knurpht@knurphtlaptop:~> echo $PATH /home/knurpht/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin AFAICS 'su -' and 'su -l' , on openSUSE at least, do the same. Easy to test for other env variables.

...

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

How? I was merely pointing out that /sbin /usr/sbin are added to $PATH in sudo su and su - you appeared to misrepresent this in your statement: "It does not alter HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH."

...

First you agree with me, then you say the opposite.

Perhaps you'd perform a test for me.

1. bring up your system again from boot but in text mode not GUI mode.

2. Log in as a regular user.

3. Run the 'env' command ad save it to a file. /tmp/f1.txt

4. Now do the same, in turn, each of "su" and and "su -", each at the user level prompt. Files F2.txt for the 'su" and F3.txt for the "su -"

Do you get asked for the password for eah of "su" and "su -"?

As user execute su and give required password, yes I'm asked for a password going from user level to root level. If I'm logged in as root via su and I execute su - I'm not asked for a password because I'm already root.

...

Now do side-by-side "sdiff" (see the man page on this, and you might consider using "diff3") on each combination of the files.

I used diff -y but I should have used sort on the files created from env > myfile.txt before.

...

Please try reconciling that with what you find when you read the man page for "su". I've never had use for su apart from just switching users, I use it every time I start my computer in konsole to have my first tab as root in the same directory as my last session, my rpmbuild directory. I've never been asked for a password by konsole and apart from setting white background with black text never touch the settings. I'm not even going to try to duplicate wol's problem by saving a profile after I've su'ed or su-'ed, my problem with konsole failing to start due to a non existent usb drive almost gave me a heart attack. Firefox, thunderbird, konsole, okular, kwrite and midnight commander are my most important applications and if something goes wrong konsole and mc are very important. I'm addicted to the mouse and selecting, scrolling and pasting.

...

Let me -- or rather the list - know what you observe and what you conclude.

I'm amazed that most of my environment is still there untouched. Still the only important difference I can find between su and su- is $USER

...

I'm particularly interested in the difference between f2.txt and f3.txt.

In the interests of full disclosure, here's mine; the differ3ence between "su" on the left and "su -" on the right. https://paste.opensuse.org/87356798

As you can see, the "su" keeps a lot of the 'anton' environment.

Exactly what I get.

...

Of course alot of this is affected by the setting in /etc/pam.d for "su" and "su-l", as well as polkit, /etc/ttydefs, /etc/login.defs, possibly someting in sysconfig, and almost certainly (in my case) changes to /etc/group.

it is also possible that TW is different, and that SLE has made LEAP change, but do check what you observe with the man page. If in fact the behaviour has changed, then the documentation needs changing.

I see there's a -p option to preserve the users environment, may be useful to me in the future. I don't see any contradictions in the man page.

...

This is what the docco/man page says:

First, it recommends: It is recommended to always use the --login option (instead of its shortcut -) to avoid side effects caused by mixing environments.

and -l ? I'm going to try env at runlevel 1 out of interest after I've sent this reply. Dave P

-- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Op donderdag 22 juni 2017 18:14:30 CEST schreef Anton Aylward:

On 22/06/17 08:43 AM, Dave Plater wrote:

...

I've never had use for su apart from just switching users, I use it every time I start my computer in konsole to have my first tab as root in the same directory as my last session, my rpmbuild directory. I've never been asked for a password by konsole

Never? Not in any of the times you've used 'su"?

I would be very very worried f I was using a computer that let me su to root, be it in regular command line VT or in an xterm or using konsole without the use of the root password, unless I'd taken prior measures, such as modify the PAM setting, for example.

Nice. Autologin and off we go, as safe as Windows XP :=). Sure this needs manual interference. Stored the root password in kwallet? A security rule: do not save the root password of a machine anywhere on that machine. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 22/06/17 01:07 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

A security rule: do not save the root password of a machine anywhere on that machine. You don't say. Does anyone actually do that?

You should know better than to ask that on a publicly searchable forum! -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 22/06/2017 18:14, Anton Aylward wrote:

Never? Not in any of the times you've used 'su"? su asks for the password, konsole is the terminal app. it doesn't ask for passwords as wol implies. Dave P

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 23/06/17 07:26 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Dave Plater [06-23-17 03:11]:

...

...

Never? Not in any of the times you've used 'su"? su asks for the password, konsole is the terminal app. it doesn't ask for

On 22/06/2017 18:14, Anton Aylward wrote: passwords as wol implies.

picking hairs. you *are* asked for a password when you "su" within konsole?

Picking another hair. It is possible, in a number of ways, to start konsole with a root shell and only the one tab containing that root shell. So it would look like konsole is asking for the password. "Under the hood", you, I and probably Per knows that it's not actually konsole doing the asking but the root shell process being started from a non-root environment. That's not to say that with suitable poking around, for example with PAM, /etc/groups and other config files, passwords can be bypassed, but that's quite another matter. Yes, I've done that, just to prove I can. But as I keep saying, having a machine where one can, ANYONE CAN, get root level access without a password is an exceeding bad idea. Yes, it's like running Windows/XP. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-06-22 11:34, Dave Plater wrote:

...

Running just "su" alone meremly changes your effective UID. By default, it is to root, but could to to another user. It does not alter HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH. That last one is important. A real root shell expects to have /sbin & /usr/sbin in the PATH The only difference between su and su - is $USER is normal user for the

On 18/06/2017 14:31, Anton Aylward wrote: former and is root for the latter.

No, both commands change to "root" as given above. And with both you can change to any user: su john su - john -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 22/06/2017 13:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2017-06-22 11:34, Dave Plater wrote:

...

...

Running just "su" alone meremly changes your effective UID. By default, it is to root, but could to to another user. It does not alter HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH. That last one is important. A real root shell expects to have /sbin & /usr/sbin in the PATH The only difference between su and su - is $USER is normal user for the

On 18/06/2017 14:31, Anton Aylward wrote: former and is root for the latter.

No, both commands change to "root" as given above. And with both you can change to any user:

su john su - john

What I mean is if you are logged in as user john in any terminal and then you execute su and give the root password, your $HOME is /root and $USER=john but if you execute su - and give the password then your $USER=root. Anton represented plain su as sudo where $HOME remains /home/john. Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 22/06/2017 14:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:

cer@Telcontar:~> echo $HOME $USER /home/cer cer cer@Telcontar:~> su Password: Telcontar:/home/cer # echo $HOME $USER <=== /root cer Telcontar:/home/cer # exit cer@Telcontar:~> su - Password: Telcontar:~ # echo $HOME $USER /root root Telcontar:~ # logout cer@Telcontar:~>

Notice that for "su" the HOME var is /root, but the current directory is not. That's 100% right, what I have learned from this thread is that I can use su -p to install third party software and don't have to use sudo Thanks Dave P

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Wols Lists [06-18-17 10:31]: [...]

But what on earth can the reason be, to ask the user for the root password, and then throw it away without ever apparently using it for anything? That's what I call weird - and the sort of thing I would expect from Windows, not linux.

you are making an observation w/o having access to or knowledge of the condition which resulted in abnormal behavour. you are assuming the app is acting as its designers/coders intended. how can you rush to judgement w/o having concrete facts? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 18/06/17 10:30 AM, Wols Lists wrote:

...

Just our of interests, why do you "su" in one of the exiting user shells rather than "ctl-shift-T" and create a new root shell tab? Because I never thought of doing it? Actually, from what people have said in this thread, I think there are two very good reasons for not doing it. Firstly, because I don't want to be hassled for the root password every time I log in. And secondly, because I don't want to leave a root shell lying around for anybody to have access to if I'm not at the computer.

I'm probably a lot more paranoid in these areas than you for reasons it's not worth going into yet again. But my first point is WHY DON'T YOU EXPERIMENT? My second is that none of this is permananet If you "su" within a user tab, when you're done, you "ctl-d" oe type 'exit" and the root privilidges go away. If you Ctl-Shit-T to get a root shell, you don't magically get a pre-authorized root shell, you still have to enter password just as you do when "su" within a user tab. And when you're done, the same "ctl-d" makes it go away. Its no different, but its a clean new tab. If you don't want to be hassled for passwords then perhaps you should look at setting up "sudo" to do that. There are other ways but they are more esoteric and require a better "under the hood" understanding of the intricacies of the authentication mechanisms and if you get it wring you're going to find yourself locked out of you system altogether. Let me also mention that I have konsole configured so that it starts up with the same as my previous session, but that doesn't mean that authentication is already dune. My 'regular' tabs start with "bash -l" so i have to enter my GPG-agent pass-phrases for each. My root shell is there asking for a password. The restored root tab asks for the password. Unlike you I don't believe that somehow bypassing the root password to access root privileges is a Good Thing. The tab is there. If and when, which is not every day, I need a root shell, it is there. I've tried, Patrick has tried, to get over the idea of a root login being different from a change in the effective UID with a simplistic "su". -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Wols Lists [06-19-17 10:47]: [...]

Nor do I. If I need root privileges, I take an existing tab, do a "su" (which asks me for the password), and either exit when I'm finished, or expect it to disappear on logout.

...

I've tried, Patrick has tried, to get over the idea of a root login being different from a change in the effective UID with a simplistic "su".

no, there most definitely is a difference between "su" and "su -" and it involves the session's working environment. please consult the man page.

I don't understand your point. I *ONLY* *EVER* use "su". *My* behaviour is consistent. Linux' response is not. (I do understand the difference, I just can't see why it has any bearing on why linux is being inconsistent.)

To repeat - if konsole is open when I log out, it is restored when I log back in. That much is consistent, and hunky dory.

If one of the tabs was changed to root, by using su, after a logout/login the system *sometimes but not always* asks me for the root password, then if I give it the password it does nothing - at least as far as I can see - with it.

I cannot remember ever loging out with an active root session in konsole and it still being there when logging in again. the session is there but it is not root and does not request a password. it is a <user> session.

If the system asked me for the root password last time I logged in, it *sometimes but not always* asks me the next time, with the same results.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if KDE is messing up saving my state, but the point is KDE/konsole is behaving in an inconsistent and nonsensical manner. In other words, be it design error, programming error, hardware error (always a possibility!) - *something* is not right.

it is consistant for me and I cannot remember it every being inconsistent. and I cannot recall ever seeing it mentioned anywhere before this thread(s) that it acted inconsistently. from my aged memory of konsole actions, I would still say you have inadvertently made a config change or your system is inconsistant/borked. do you have only one box? does this inconsistancy appear on multiple boxes where you have access? I often encounter inconsistancy, my wife remarks and I stand up only to be disloged from current position because she had said "shut up". I usually bruse badly. but I can mark it up to oldtimers..... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 19/06/17 10:45 AM, Wols Lists wrote:

On 18/06/17 20:14, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

My 'regular' tabs start with "bash -l" so i have to enter my GPG-agent pass-phrases for each. My root shell is there asking for a password.

My tabs - all of them - start however konsole does it. Whatever the default is. I've done nothing special - nothing at all to the best of my memory.

You don't have to. If you'd followed up on some of my earlier posts you'd have noticed that there is a system wide config for konsole in /usr share which defines the "command" setting for both regular tabs and for root tabs. that gets copied, when you close a session, into ~/.local. Any edits you make in the GUI or to the files in ~/.local override, for you, in subsequent startups of konsole, those global settings. you don't have to run strace on konsole to see it doing this: its documented!

...

The restored root tab asks for the password.

I don't have - again, never have, iirc - a root tab.

As I've said many times, menubar: File -> New Tab -> Root tab is the preferred way to get root. Its clean and its going to make sure that the proper environment is set up. As Carlos points out, you absolutely need that proper environment if you don't want to bugger up your config. I really don't understand why you want to fight things that are supplied to make it easier for you.

...

Unlike you I don't believe that somehow bypassing the root password to access root privileges is a Good Thing. The tab is there. If and when, which is not every day, I need a root shell, it is there.

Nor do I. If I need root privileges, I take an existing tab, do a "su" (which asks me for the password), and either exit when I'm finished, or expect it to disappear on logout.

And that can, as Carlos points out, lead you into problems, potentially screwing up your config. Which is why I say the proper way is to use the mechanism built into konsole for creating a root tab. And, as I said, you can exit that tab and the whole tab, the whole environment, goes away when "ctrl-D".

...

I've tried, Patrick has tried, to get over the idea of a root login being different from a change in the effective UID with a simplistic "su".

I don't understand your point. I *ONLY* *EVER* use "su". *My* behaviour is consistent. Linux' response is not. (I do understand the difference, I just can't see why it has any bearing on why linux is being inconsistent.)

Did you run the three way test, the three "env" output files and "diff3" as I suggested? Didn't you see the point?

To repeat - if konsole is open when I log out, it is restored when I log back in. That much is consistent, and hunky dory.

If one of the tabs was changed to root, by using su, after a logout/login the system *sometimes but not always* asks me for the root password, then if I give it the password it does nothing - at least a> far as I can see - with it.

So far, we seem to either be unable to replicate that or don't get your point. Again, try a test in non-graphics mode. Log in as root. Now run 'su'. Did it ask for a password? Now, instead, run "su -". What difference? Now try the same as a regular user.

If the system asked me for the root password last time I logged in, it *sometimes but not always* asks me the next time, with the same results.

There is a facility, which some of us who are a bit more paranoid choose not use, whether by 'su" (and I think it can be set up for sudo as well) remembers the password for a predetermined interval. Hmm. In the sudo manual page <quote> sudoers uses per-user time stamp files for credential caching. Once a user has been authenticated, a record is written containing the uid that was used to authenticate, the terminal session ID, and a time stamp (using a monotonic clock if one is available). The user may then use sudo without a password for a short period of time (5 minutes unless overridden by the timeout option). By default, sudoers uses a separate record for each tty, which means that a user's login sessions are authenticated separately. </quote> I recall a similar mechanism for plain old "su" but I can't find it. Perhaps it has been subsumed by the PAM mechanism. if you want a 'password-less' login, you might consider replacing the "su -" detail in the "New Root tab" setting with an execution of SSH that is set up to use the certificate.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if KDE is messing up saving my state, but the point is KDE/konsole is behaving in an inconsistent and nonsensical manner. In other words, be it design error, programming error, hardware error (always a possibility!) - *something* is not right.

No, I think you are fighting it and using it in manner that doesn't "go with the flow". As I keep saying, there is a mechanism as a part of its design for getting root level access, an isolated root tab with a proper ENV set up, so that it won't, as Carlos made clear, mess up your other config. That you persist in refusing to make use of it makes those of us that don't have your problems wonder ... -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

This is exactly what appears on mine.I get the password prompt on Konsole. ianseeks:

On Saturday, 17 June 2017 10:32:00 BST James Bunnell wrote:

...

I have the regular super user konsole. but the konsole that is supposed to be the regular konsole prompts for a password each time i open it. i have tried the profile thing, no avail. any ideas as to why this is? thanks.

Jim

Not sure if this is any help. This is how it came out of the box for me.

On my menu under "System" , I have entries for "Konsole" and "Terminal - Super User mode". The "Konsole" menu entry configuration is set up as <konsole> The "Terminal - Super User Mode" menu entry configuration is set up as

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On 17/06/17 11:42 AM, James Bunnell wrote:

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and you have checked konsole --list-profiles to see which one is active? and if require --profile to change default

yes i have, i keep setting the home one active and it reverts back to root every time. it has a mind of it's own i guess.

I suggest that you look at the confid files that I've mentioned earlier in this thread. if all else fails, delete ~/.kde4/share/apps/konsole/Root Shell.profile ~/.local/share/konsole/Root Shell.profile and ~/.kde4/share/apps/konsole ~/.kde4/share/config/session/* ~/.kde4/share/config/konsolerc ./.config/konsolerc* ~/.config/session/* ~/.config/konsolerc ~/.local/share/konsole ~/.local/share/kxmlgui5/konsole You may not have some of those depending on the version of KDE & konsole you are running. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-06-18 08:52, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 06/17/2017 04:32 AM, James Bunnell wrote:

...

I have the regular super user konsole. but the konsole that is supposed to be the regular konsole prompts for a password each time i open it. i have tried the profile thing, no avail. any ideas as to why this is? thanks.

Jim

What generally causes this is su'ing to root in konsole, doing some things, settings some config values and then choosing to "Save as Default" which saves the username 'root' in your konsolerc

IMHO, that is a bug. When I do the same in XFCE it does not try to start a root terminal. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)