[opensuse] Palestinians and the truth
Every year the world hears about a group calling themselves “Palestinians.” In June 1967, so the story goes, the Israelis pushed them out of their homeland. (Or did the Jews throw them out in 1949?) Western people accept that narrative without judging it for accuracy. They do this because they don’t know the true history of the region. Who were the Palestinians? Beginning in 2002, a certain writer began a series of provocative essays about “Palestine” and “Palestinians.” This writer published them under the false name “Yashiko Sagamori.” (The first name could have come from a Japanese trademark for twin-lens reflex cameras, the Yashica line.) Whatever his (or her) origin, “Yashiko Sagamori” asks some pointed questions: (paraphrased from the original) Who founded a country called “Palestine,” and when? What borders did they draw? What cities did they build? (And which did they build as their capital city?) What industry did they build their economy on? Farming? Fishing? Ironworking? What government did they have? Before Yasser Arafat (or, for that matter, Haj Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem), can anyone name even one supreme leader of that country? Has any other country, or superpower, or group of nation-states, recognized the “Palestinians” as a country, with no quibbling? What language did Palestinians speak? What sort of gods did they worship, and how did they worship them? How did they name their monetary unit? Can anyone quote a rate-of-exchange between this unit and, say, the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan? What brought about the downfall of Palestine, and when? When could one call the Palestinians a “proud” nations? What gave them their “pride”? And: If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over – or thrown out of – the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War? Or for that matter, before the Arab Legion tried to shove the Jews into the sea in 1948-9, and failed miserably? Palestinians: real history Pontius Pilate, a key figure in killing Jesus, is here confirmed as a real person. He also was governor of Judea Province, which became Palestine. So much for the claims of the Palestinians to a long history. A dedicatory stone credits Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea, with erecting the Hippodrome in Caesaria Maritima. CNAV File Photo (March 30, 2011) Those who call themselves “Palestinians” can’t or won’t answer these questions. But those who know the thousands of years of the history of the region, can. “Palestine” never existed as a country. Not, that is, with Arabic people living in it. Emperor Hadrian of Rome gave the region the name Palestine in 135 A.D. (or C.E., if you don’t believe in the Lord, as in “Year of”). Hadrian ordered his legions to disperse the Jews throughout his Empire in that year. Simon bar Khochva rebelled against Rome. (And to this day the Seder Olam Rabah lists him as the Messiah and figures the Years of the World on that listing.) Hadrian’s legions put him down and scattered the Jews. They then renamed their province of “Judea” to “Palestina.” Palestine comes from Philistia. In fact the Arab, in referring to Palestine, call it Filastin. But the Arabs do not descend from the original Philistines. The name Philistine means an outsider, an immigrant, or an invader. For these generic Arab residents, Philistine seems as good a name as any. One could then call them a third generation of Philistines, after the Avvites of Abraham and Isaac’s day, and the Caphthorites who displaced the Avvites during the Sojourn of the Israelites in Egypt. But now the champions of the Palestinians have a problem. “Philistia,” in the days of the Hebrew Judges and Kings, never occupied a contiguous area in modern Judea and Samaria (“The West Bank”). In fact, in those days nation-states consisted of cities and their immediate surroundings, not of vast tracts of land far removed from any one city. They did not know the concept “territory” as we know it. So any two monarchs might control groups of cities in overlapping territories! At most they occupied the present Gaza Strip and a few lands north and east of it. And by the time the Arabs even reached that far, the Caphthorites no longer lived there. And hadn’t lived there since Nebuchadnezzar the Great eliminated them. The Philistines of old do not seem to have had one capital city. They had the Five Cities: Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, and Gaza. Of the Five, only Gaza City remains to these third-generation Philistines. Not Jerusalem. Furthermore, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, and Gath existed mostly as ruins when the first Zionists arrived. (Gath still does not work as a proper city. It exists only as ruins.) The Caphthorites fished for their living. And they worshiped a god in the shape of a walking, talking fish: Dagon. The Arab Palestinians worship Muhammad, not Dagon. The Caphthorites always had a monarchy, and a nobility: the Lords of the Five Cities. The modern Palestinians had no self-government for over a thousand years. The Romans brought them in after chasing the Jews out. The various rulers who succeeded the Romans, including the Mamluks, the Crusader Kings, and especially the Ottoman Turks, never offered them self-government. In fact, the first Zionist pioneers came to an empty land. The Turks sold them that land, and laughed all the way to the bank. Like Sanballat of old (see Nehemiah chapter 5), they said one to another, “What will these feeble Jews do with all that swamp and desert?” Plenty. They planted eucalyptus to drain the swamp naturally, and invented drip irrigation and other techniques to reclaim the desert. Then Arabs came, looking for jobs. As to language: the Caphthorites spoke a Semitic language. The Arabs, of course, speak their own language. Eliezer Yitzak Perelman, alias Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, single-handedly taught his fellow Jews to speak Hebrew every day, not merely in clerical school or when reading the Tanakh. The British Mandatory authorities, in 1922, recognized Hebrew as an official spoken language. Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini became the first leader of any “Palestinians.” Even then, the region had that name only because the British owned it. They called it “British Mandatory Palestine,” after they had won World War One. And the Grand Mufti called for mass murder. He even cooperated with Adolf Hitler. After that he came back to Jerusalem, to say, “I declare a holy war! Murder them! Murder them all!”, talking about the Jews. Yasser Arafat eventually succeeded him. But in fact the “Palestinians” did nothing more than furnish guerilla shock troops to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Then Egypt started the Six-day War. And Israel finished it. The “Palestinians” have no central bank, and no monetary unit. Even the so-called Palestine National Authority never created one. Never in history have any “Palestinians” had any unique money. They used Roman or Turkish money. Now, ironically, they use American money! The last question from the pseudonymous “Yashiko Sagamori” asks why, not what. That can have no answer. In sum “Palestinians” do not qualify as a national “people.” At best they sit on a territory overlapping that of two generations of invaders from the sea. At worst they have let certain great powers use them as an excuse to rag on Israel in general, and the Jews in particular http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2015/07/09/editorial/talk/palestinia... http://tinyurl.com/nmc2h3z -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/16/2015 09:33 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:
“Palestinians” do not qualify as a national “people.” At best they sit on a territory overlapping that of two generations of invaders from the sea. At worst they have let certain great powers use them as an excuse to rag on Israel in general, and the Jews in particular
The author seems to be forgetting that the British and French really messed up that area after defeating the Ottoman Empire in WW1. There was even more interference in that area after WW2, by the French, British and Americans. There were also people living in that area for many centuries, before Israel was created. As for claim to the territory, the Jewish claim is based on the delusion of the "promised land", promised by a fictional being that has about as much credibility as the tooth fairy. You can go through the bible and find much that is fiction and even often contradicts other parts of it. Religious belief, all religious belief is delusion that has caused so much violence throughout history. It's a cancer on humanity. Judging from what I see on that site, one can assume it's all extreme right wing lunacy. They're about as delusion as it gets. Living in Canada, we can see a lot of what goes on in the U.S.. One thing that's absolutely clear is the hard right (wrong?) Republicans, particularly the "Tea Party", are completely out to lunch, with all the lunacy they come up with. The republicans aren't what they used to be. Even Nixon looks good in comparison. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/17/2015 02:51 AM, James Knott wrote:
On 07/16/2015 09:33 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:
“Palestinians” do not qualify as a national “people.” At best they sit on a territory overlapping that of two generations of invaders from the sea. At worst they have let certain great powers use them as an excuse to rag on Israel in general, and the Jews in particular
The author seems to be forgetting that the British and French really messed up that area after defeating the Ottoman Empire in WW1. There was even more interference in that area after WW2, by the French, British and Americans. There were also people living in that area for many centuries, before Israel was created. As for claim to the territory, the Jewish claim is based on the delusion of the "promised land", promised by a fictional being that has about as much credibility as the tooth fairy. You can go through the bible and find much that is fiction and even often contradicts other parts of it. Religious belief, all religious belief is delusion that has caused so much violence throughout history. It's a cancer on humanity.
Judging from what I see on that site, one can assume it's all extreme right wing lunacy. They're about as delusion as it gets.
Living in Canada, we can see a lot of what goes on in the U.S.. One thing that's absolutely clear is the hard right (wrong?) Republicans, particularly the "Tea Party", are completely out to lunch, with all the lunacy they come up with. The republicans aren't what they used to be. Even Nixon looks good in comparison.
What has any of this got to do with openSUSE ? Nothing. Please stop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On July 16, 2015 6:51:19 PM PDT, James Knott
On 07/16/2015 09:33 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:
“Palestinians” do not qualify as a national “people.” At best they sit on a territory overlapping that of two generations of invaders from the sea. At worst they have let certain great powers use them as an excuse to rag on Israel in general, and the Jews in particular
The author seems to be forgetting that the British and French really messed up that area after defeating the Ottoman Empire in WW1. There was even more interference in that area after WW2, by the French, British and Americans. There were also people living in that area for many centuries, before Israel was created. As for claim to the territory, the Jewish claim is based on the delusion of the "promised land", promised by a fictional being that has about as much credibility as the tooth fairy. You can go through the bible and find much that is fiction and even often contradicts other parts of it. Religious belief, all religious belief is delusion that has caused so much violence throughout history. It's a cancer on humanity.
Judging from what I see on that site, one can assume it's all extreme right wing lunacy. They're about as delusion as it gets.
Living in Canada, we can see a lot of what goes on in the U.S.. One thing that's absolutely clear is the hard right (wrong?) Republicans, particularly the "Tea Party", are completely out to lunch, with all the lunacy they come up with. The republicans aren't what they used to be.
Even Nixon looks good in comparison.
Why is any of this on the opensuse list? -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/15 12:16, James Knott wrote:
On 07/16/2015 09:56 PM, John Andersen wrote:
Why is any of this on the opensuse list? Ask Billie
Billie had a braingasm :-) . Nothing to really worry about :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.6 & kernel 4.1.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 17/07/15 03:16, James Knott wrote:
On 07/16/2015 09:56 PM, John Andersen wrote:
Why is any of this on the opensuse list?
Ask Billie
Please don't feed the trolls. - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop Distro: openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3 Uptime: 06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlWo/DsACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU412QCbBzOTl3FLR4vQ1wXQ38jxA6yw b/kAn3cJDNtJsI7DXfVekjl+06DvOaRy =iryU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/15 11:51, James Knott wrote:
“Palestinians” do not qualify as a national “people.” At best they sit on a territory overlapping that of two generations of invaders from the sea. At worst they have let certain great powers use them as an excuse to rag on Israel in general, and the Jews in particular The author seems to be forgetting that the British and French really messed up that area after defeating the Ottoman Empire in WW1. There was even more interference in that area after WW2, by the French, British and Americans. There were also people living in that area for many centuries, before Israel was created. As for claim to the territory, the Jewish claim is based on the delusion of the "promised land", promised by a fictional being that has about as much credibility as the tooth fairy. You can go through the bible and find much that is fiction and even often contradicts other parts of it. Religious belief, all religious belief is delusion that has caused so much violence
On 07/16/2015 09:33 PM, Billie Walsh wrote: throughout history. It's a cancer on humanity.
Judging from what I see on that site, one can assume it's all extreme right wing lunacy. They're about as delusion as it gets.
Living in Canada, we can see a lot of what goes on in the U.S.. One thing that's absolutely clear is the hard right (wrong?) Republicans, particularly the "Tea Party", are completely out to lunch, with all the lunacy they come up with. The republicans aren't what they used to be. Even Nixon looks good in comparison.
CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! Well expressed, James! I just hope that you don't get extradited when Donald becomes prez! LOL! BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.6 & kernel 4.1.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
My humblest apologies. The post was supposed to go to the offtopic list. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/15 12:33, Billie Walsh wrote:
My humblest apologies. The post was supposed to go to the offtopic list.
Nothing to worry about, Billie. Can happen. Those blue pills can have side effects when taken on an empty stomach :-D . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.6 & kernel 4.1.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/17/2015 04:51 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 17/07/15 12:33, Billie Walsh wrote:
My humblest apologies. The post was supposed to go to the offtopic list.
Nothing to worry about, Billie. Can happen. Those blue pills can have side effects when taken on an empty stomach :-D .
BC
The blue pill has no effect on me. It's all the rest of the pills. Of course you have to have a glass or two of wine to wash them down. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/15 22:35, Billie Walsh wrote:
On 07/17/2015 04:51 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 17/07/15 12:33, Billie Walsh wrote:
My humblest apologies. The post was supposed to go to the offtopic list.
Nothing to worry about, Billie. Can happen. Those blue pills can have side effects when taken on an empty stomach :-D .
BC
The blue pill has no effect on me. It's all the rest of the pills. Of course you have to have a glass or two of wine to wash them down.
But of course....a glass or two or three or..... :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.6 & kernel 4.1.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
Nothing to worry about, Billie. Can happen. Those blue pills can have side effects when taken on an empty stomach :-D .
--- Seeing that, and this earlier:
Why is any of this on the opensuse list? Ask Billie
---- I had a refrain in my head "... Go ask Billie, when he's 10 feet tall...." For some reason, reading the original got me in that mood... But I should talk! Heh! :-) Linda -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/07/15 10:21, Linda Walsh wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Nothing to worry about, Billie. Can happen. Those blue pills can have side effects when taken on an empty stomach :-D .
--- Seeing that, and this earlier:
Why is any of this on the opensuse list? Ask Billie
---- I had a refrain in my head "... Go ask Billie, when he's 10 feet tall...." For some reason, reading the original got me in that mood...
But I should talk! Heh!
:-) Linda
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 18/07/15 01:21, Linda Walsh wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Nothing to worry about, Billie. Can happen. Those blue pills can have side effects when taken on an empty stomach :-D .
--- Seeing that, and this earlier:
Why is any of this on the opensuse list? Ask Billie
---- I had a refrain in my head "... Go ask Billie, when he's 10 feet tall...."
"Go ask Alice,.." from White Rabbit on Surrealistic Pillow by Jefferson Airplane. Ah, those were the days... Bob - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop Distro: openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3 Uptime: 06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlWrxXAACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU60PACfRHkH9tRjEmVRlRE/+Cd5Q8ca 7vYAoKw5UNXcrrxXNQpIaWIzZx/chW59 =Wm4+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/19/2015 10:42 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
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On 18/07/15 01:21, Linda Walsh wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Nothing to worry about, Billie. Can happen. Those blue pills can have side effects when taken on an empty stomach :-D . --- Seeing that, and this earlier:
Why is any of this on the opensuse list? Ask Billie ---- I had a refrain in my head "... Go ask Billie, when he's 10 feet tall...." "Go ask Alice,.." from White Rabbit on Surrealistic Pillow by Jefferson Airplane. Ah, those were the days...
Bob
Love that song. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 19/07/15 17:26, Billie Walsh wrote:
On 07/19/2015 10:42 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 18/07/15 01:21, Linda Walsh wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Nothing to worry about, Billie. Can happen. Those blue pills can have side effects when taken on an empty stomach :-D . --- Seeing that, and this earlier:
Why is any of this on the opensuse list? Ask Billie ---- I had a refrain in my head "... Go ask Billie, when he's 10 feet tall...." "Go ask Alice,.." from White Rabbit on Surrealistic Pillow by Jefferson Airplane. Ah, those were the days...
Bob
Love that song.
I think I was in love with Grace Slick ;-) Bob - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop Distro: openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3 Uptime: 06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlWr0PMACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU4fAgCeNn1sC7/m8p/jsqzSOijYhIsm 7yMAn0aMjbUjQQVWPnYY/Kmg9UWRMKp0 =riMi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 05:31:49 PM Bob Williams wrote:
"Go ask Alice,.." from White Rabbit on Surrealistic Pillow by Jefferson Airplane. Ah, those were the days...
Bob
Love that song.
I think I was in love with Grace Slick ;-)
She seemed cold, the whole band did. Janis was much more friendly, much more, friendly kisses widely. -- Bob Rea mailto:gapetard@stsams.org http://www.petard.us http://www.petard.us/blog http://www.petard.us/gallery America, it was a wonderful country until they took it private and turned it into a theme park of itself -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/15 02:33, Billie Walsh wrote:
Every year the world hears about a group calling themselves “Palestinians.” In June 1967, so the story goes, the Israelis pushed them out of their homeland. (Or did the Jews throw them out in 1949?) Western people accept that narrative without judging it for accuracy. They do this because they don’t know the true history of the region.
Who were the Palestinians?
Beginning in 2002, a certain writer began a series of provocative essays about “Palestine” and “Palestinians.” This writer published them under the false name “Yashiko Sagamori.” (The first name could have come from a Japanese trademark for twin-lens reflex cameras, the Yashica line.) Whatever his (or her) origin, “Yashiko Sagamori” asks some pointed questions: (paraphrased from the original)
Who founded a country called “Palestine,” and when? What borders did they draw? What cities did they build? (And which did they build as their capital city?) What industry did they build their economy on? Farming? Fishing? Ironworking? What government did they have? Before Yasser Arafat (or, for that matter, Haj Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem), can anyone name even one supreme leader of that country? Has any other country, or superpower, or group of nation-states, recognized the “Palestinians” as a country, with no quibbling? What language did Palestinians speak? What sort of gods did they worship, and how did they worship them? How did they name their monetary unit? Can anyone quote a rate-of-exchange between this unit and, say, the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan? What brought about the downfall of Palestine, and when? When could one call the Palestinians a “proud” nations? What gave them their “pride”?
And:
If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over – or thrown out of – the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War?
Or for that matter, before the Arab Legion tried to shove the Jews into the sea in 1948-9, and failed miserably?
Palestinians: real history
Pontius Pilate, a key figure in killing Jesus, is here confirmed as a real person. He also was governor of Judea Province, which became Palestine. So much for the claims of the Palestinians to a long history.
A dedicatory stone credits Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea, with erecting the Hippodrome in Caesaria Maritima. CNAV File Photo (March 30, 2011)
Those who call themselves “Palestinians” can’t or won’t answer these questions. But those who know the thousands of years of the history of the region, can.
“Palestine” never existed as a country. Not, that is, with Arabic people living in it. Emperor Hadrian of Rome gave the region the name Palestine in 135 A.D. (or C.E., if you don’t believe in the Lord, as in “Year of”). Hadrian ordered his legions to disperse the Jews throughout his Empire in that year. Simon bar Khochva rebelled against Rome. (And to this day the Seder Olam Rabah lists him as the Messiah and figures the Years of the World on that listing.) Hadrian’s legions put him down and scattered the Jews. They then renamed their province of “Judea” to “Palestina.”
Palestine comes from Philistia. In fact the Arab, in referring to Palestine, call it Filastin. But the Arabs do not descend from the original Philistines. The name Philistine means an outsider, an immigrant, or an invader. For these generic Arab residents, Philistine seems as good a name as any. One could then call them a third generation of Philistines, after the Avvites of Abraham and Isaac’s day, and the Caphthorites who displaced the Avvites during the Sojourn of the Israelites in Egypt.
But now the champions of the Palestinians have a problem. “Philistia,” in the days of the Hebrew Judges and Kings, never occupied a contiguous area in modern Judea and Samaria (“The West Bank”). In fact, in those days nation-states consisted of cities and their immediate surroundings, not of vast tracts of land far removed from any one city. They did not know the concept “territory” as we know it. So any two monarchs might control groups of cities in overlapping territories! At most they occupied the present Gaza Strip and a few lands north and east of it. And by the time the Arabs even reached that far, the Caphthorites no longer lived there. And hadn’t lived there since Nebuchadnezzar the Great eliminated them.
The Philistines of old do not seem to have had one capital city. They had the Five Cities: Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, and Gaza. Of the Five, only Gaza City remains to these third-generation Philistines. Not Jerusalem. Furthermore, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, and Gath existed mostly as ruins when the first Zionists arrived. (Gath still does not work as a proper city. It exists only as ruins.)
The Caphthorites fished for their living. And they worshiped a god in the shape of a walking, talking fish: Dagon. The Arab Palestinians worship Muhammad, not Dagon.
The Caphthorites always had a monarchy, and a nobility: the Lords of the Five Cities. The modern Palestinians had no self-government for over a thousand years. The Romans brought them in after chasing the Jews out. The various rulers who succeeded the Romans, including the Mamluks, the Crusader Kings, and especially the Ottoman Turks, never offered them self-government.
In fact, the first Zionist pioneers came to an empty land. The Turks sold them that land, and laughed all the way to the bank. Like Sanballat of old (see Nehemiah chapter 5), they said one to another, “What will these feeble Jews do with all that swamp and desert?” Plenty. They planted eucalyptus to drain the swamp naturally, and invented drip irrigation and other techniques to reclaim the desert. Then Arabs came, looking for jobs.
As to language: the Caphthorites spoke a Semitic language. The Arabs, of course, speak their own language. Eliezer Yitzak Perelman, alias Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, single-handedly taught his fellow Jews to speak Hebrew every day, not merely in clerical school or when reading the Tanakh. The British Mandatory authorities, in 1922, recognized Hebrew as an official spoken language.
Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini became the first leader of any “Palestinians.” Even then, the region had that name only because the British owned it. They called it “British Mandatory Palestine,” after they had won World War One. And the Grand Mufti called for mass murder. He even cooperated with Adolf Hitler. After that he came back to Jerusalem, to say, “I declare a holy war! Murder them! Murder them all!”, talking about the Jews.
Yasser Arafat eventually succeeded him. But in fact the “Palestinians” did nothing more than furnish guerilla shock troops to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Then Egypt started the Six-day War. And Israel finished it.
The “Palestinians” have no central bank, and no monetary unit. Even the so-called Palestine National Authority never created one. Never in history have any “Palestinians” had any unique money. They used Roman or Turkish money. Now, ironically, they use American money!
The last question from the pseudonymous “Yashiko Sagamori” asks why, not what. That can have no answer.
In sum
“Palestinians” do not qualify as a national “people.” At best they sit on a territory overlapping that of two generations of invaders from the sea. At worst they have let certain great powers use them as an excuse to rag on Israel in general, and the Jews in particular
http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2015/07/09/editorial/talk/palestinia...
Please please take this elsewhere. I do not read this list for anybody's political views about anything. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 17/07/2015 11:49, michael norman a écrit :
Please please take this elsewhere. I do not read this list for anybody's political views about anything.
you are right, but please do not quote the offending text! thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-17 11:49, michael norman wrote:
Please please take this elsewhere. I do not read this list for anybody's political views about anything.
He already apologized (seven hours ago); he sent to the wrong list by mistake. And please, don't you repost the entire thing again. You neglected to trim the quotes. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWo028ACgkQja8UbcUWM1z3awD/Zuy5tvr0iiO3xwOjDutGndSK 6aFmHw+5Ha7AQKpv21QA/1PtqXygWLfH6PfHthiTI3NX9n3R3HBLQLfZw7OuuiIa =mFWc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/15 11:05, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 2015-07-17 11:49, michael norman wrote:
Please please take this elsewhere. I do not read this list for anybody's political views about anything.
He already apologized (seven hours ago); he sent to the wrong list by mistake.
And please, don't you repost the entire thing again. You neglected to trim the quotes.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
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Point taken, sorry about that, mea culpa -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/15 11:32, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
On 07/17/2015 01:25 PM, michael norman wrote:
Point taken, sorry about that, mea culpa
What point exactly did you take? You, again, quoted the entire message!
I'll get my coat. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/15 20:34, michael norman wrote:
On 17/07/15 11:32, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
On 07/17/2015 01:25 PM, michael norman wrote:
Point taken, sorry about that, mea culpa
What point exactly did you take? You, again, quoted the entire message!
I'll get my coat.
Yes, feel properly chastised. :-) (My turn next, I can feel it...) BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.6 & kernel 4.1.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
i'm from israel and i never heard so much bullshit in my life go learn what happen in 1967 and in 1994 (The Israel–Jordan peace treaty that because of that you can't call it the "Occupied areas") AND WHY ITS IN OPENSUSE MAIL LIST?? On 07/17/2015 04:33 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:
Every year the world hears about a group calling themselves “Palestinians.” In June 1967, so the story goes, the Israelis pushed them out of their homeland. (Or did the Jews throw them out in 1949?) Western people accept that narrative without judging it for accuracy. They do this because they don’t know the true history of the region.
Who were the Palestinians?
Beginning in 2002, a certain writer began a series of provocative essays about “Palestine” and “Palestinians.” This writer published them under the false name “Yashiko Sagamori.” (The first name could have come from a Japanese trademark for twin-lens reflex cameras, the Yashica line.) Whatever his (or her) origin, “Yashiko Sagamori” asks some pointed questions: (paraphrased from the original)
Who founded a country called “Palestine,” and when? What borders did they draw? What cities did they build? (And which did they build as their capital city?) What industry did they build their economy on? Farming? Fishing? Ironworking? What government did they have? Before Yasser Arafat (or, for that matter, Haj Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem), can anyone name even one supreme leader of that country? Has any other country, or superpower, or group of nation-states, recognized the “Palestinians” as a country, with no quibbling? What language did Palestinians speak? What sort of gods did they worship, and how did they worship them? How did they name their monetary unit? Can anyone quote a rate-of-exchange between this unit and, say, the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan? What brought about the downfall of Palestine, and when? When could one call the Palestinians a “proud” nations? What gave them their “pride”?
And:
If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over – or thrown out of – the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War?
Or for that matter, before the Arab Legion tried to shove the Jews into the sea in 1948-9, and failed miserably?
Palestinians: real history
Pontius Pilate, a key figure in killing Jesus, is here confirmed as a real person. He also was governor of Judea Province, which became Palestine. So much for the claims of the Palestinians to a long history.
A dedicatory stone credits Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea, with erecting the Hippodrome in Caesaria Maritima. CNAV File Photo (March 30, 2011)
Those who call themselves “Palestinians” can’t or won’t answer these questions. But those who know the thousands of years of the history of the region, can.
“Palestine” never existed as a country. Not, that is, with Arabic people living in it. Emperor Hadrian of Rome gave the region the name Palestine in 135 A.D. (or C.E., if you don’t believe in the Lord, as in “Year of”). Hadrian ordered his legions to disperse the Jews throughout his Empire in that year. Simon bar Khochva rebelled against Rome. (And to this day the Seder Olam Rabah lists him as the Messiah and figures the Years of the World on that listing.) Hadrian’s legions put him down and scattered the Jews. They then renamed their province of “Judea” to “Palestina.”
Palestine comes from Philistia. In fact the Arab, in referring to Palestine, call it Filastin. But the Arabs do not descend from the original Philistines. The name Philistine means an outsider, an immigrant, or an invader. For these generic Arab residents, Philistine seems as good a name as any. One could then call them a third generation of Philistines, after the Avvites of Abraham and Isaac’s day, and the Caphthorites who displaced the Avvites during the Sojourn of the Israelites in Egypt.
But now the champions of the Palestinians have a problem. “Philistia,” in the days of the Hebrew Judges and Kings, never occupied a contiguous area in modern Judea and Samaria (“The West Bank”). In fact, in those days nation-states consisted of cities and their immediate surroundings, not of vast tracts of land far removed from any one city. They did not know the concept “territory” as we know it. So any two monarchs might control groups of cities in overlapping territories! At most they occupied the present Gaza Strip and a few lands north and east of it. And by the time the Arabs even reached that far, the Caphthorites no longer lived there. And hadn’t lived there since Nebuchadnezzar the Great eliminated them.
The Philistines of old do not seem to have had one capital city. They had the Five Cities: Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, and Gaza. Of the Five, only Gaza City remains to these third-generation Philistines. Not Jerusalem. Furthermore, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, and Gath existed mostly as ruins when the first Zionists arrived. (Gath still does not work as a proper city. It exists only as ruins.)
The Caphthorites fished for their living. And they worshiped a god in the shape of a walking, talking fish: Dagon. The Arab Palestinians worship Muhammad, not Dagon.
The Caphthorites always had a monarchy, and a nobility: the Lords of the Five Cities. The modern Palestinians had no self-government for over a thousand years. The Romans brought them in after chasing the Jews out. The various rulers who succeeded the Romans, including the Mamluks, the Crusader Kings, and especially the Ottoman Turks, never offered them self-government.
In fact, the first Zionist pioneers came to an empty land. The Turks sold them that land, and laughed all the way to the bank. Like Sanballat of old (see Nehemiah chapter 5), they said one to another, “What will these feeble Jews do with all that swamp and desert?” Plenty. They planted eucalyptus to drain the swamp naturally, and invented drip irrigation and other techniques to reclaim the desert. Then Arabs came, looking for jobs.
As to language: the Caphthorites spoke a Semitic language. The Arabs, of course, speak their own language. Eliezer Yitzak Perelman, alias Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, single-handedly taught his fellow Jews to speak Hebrew every day, not merely in clerical school or when reading the Tanakh. The British Mandatory authorities, in 1922, recognized Hebrew as an official spoken language.
Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini became the first leader of any “Palestinians.” Even then, the region had that name only because the British owned it. They called it “British Mandatory Palestine,” after they had won World War One. And the Grand Mufti called for mass murder. He even cooperated with Adolf Hitler. After that he came back to Jerusalem, to say, “I declare a holy war! Murder them! Murder them all!”, talking about the Jews.
Yasser Arafat eventually succeeded him. But in fact the “Palestinians” did nothing more than furnish guerilla shock troops to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Then Egypt started the Six-day War. And Israel finished it.
The “Palestinians” have no central bank, and no monetary unit. Even the so-called Palestine National Authority never created one. Never in history have any “Palestinians” had any unique money. They used Roman or Turkish money. Now, ironically, they use American money!
The last question from the pseudonymous “Yashiko Sagamori” asks why, not what. That can have no answer.
In sum
“Palestinians” do not qualify as a national “people.” At best they sit on a territory overlapping that of two generations of invaders from the sea. At worst they have let certain great powers use them as an excuse to rag on Israel in general, and the Jews in particular
http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2015/07/09/editorial/talk/palestinia...
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-19 18:49, nirsuse wrote:
AND WHY ITS IN OPENSUSE MAIL LIST??
Please, please, the OP immediately wrote that he posted here by mistake: |> My humblest apologies. The post was supposed to go to the offtopic list. And that was two days ago. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWr1lMACgkQja8UbcUWM1wchQD+OQEGhNQOCCmepMMPYra+BL/8 PdtUPjK1zdK+BX90J8IA/2j4HUlejRSph2O/dYIbhtr+4Z8719CFGAWztCPGt6Uu =fkw6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/16/2015 08:33 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:
http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2015/07/09/editorial/talk/palestinia...
What the hell is this historically inaccurate garbage doing on the openSuSE Linux list to begin with? Billie check your computer for a virus. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-19 20:15, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 07/16/2015 08:33 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:
What the hell is this historically inaccurate garbage doing on the openSuSE Linux list to begin with?
Please, please, the OP immediately wrote that he posted here by mistake: |> My humblest apologies. The post was supposed to go to the offtopic |> list. And that was two days ago. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWr6tkACgkQja8UbcUWM1yjfAD/aWqPswiyDBvEzJIkC9wAK2FG 4UgukEDivPPo9efSHzcA/1exn5X+BmjYeaIPRORpQSba7v4HUxz7B/MVACCiYQk0 =U/7V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/19/2015 01:22 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
And that was two days ago.
Sorry Carlos, I don't have time to read 2 levels deep in off-topic FUD. I'll force myself next time ;-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-19 20:26, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 07/19/2015 01:22 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
And that was two days ago.
Sorry Carlos,
I don't have time to read 2 levels deep in off-topic FUD. I'll force myself next time ;-)
It is on first level ;-) If you display sorted by thread, you can have a peek at the few first level replies. But you were not the only one :-) I'm just trying to quench further fires ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWr71EACgkQja8UbcUWM1w6MgD/c1WnqSADC/Bs2Mq0pKqHqUiQ 3aM5oDUT8/SASY0/8UYBAIPJZV1q6IgyFBhwF8f59+dCcoHiBGf+kZD5wButNz5S =qh+R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/17/2015 03:33 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:
Every year the world hears about a group calling themselves “Palestinians.” In June 1967, so the story goes, the Israelis pushed them out of their homeland. (Or did the Jews throw them out in 1949?) Western people accept that narrative without judging it for accuracy. They do this because they don’t know the true history of the region.
Who were the Palestinians?
<<SNIP>> Sh.., my postings are delayed because I dare to use the word systemd in my topic line. This topic is not squashed? Or is OpenSuse involved in geopolitics? Frans. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-19 21:26, Frans de Boer wrote:
On 07/17/2015 03:33 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:
Sh.., my postings are delayed because I dare to use the word systemd in my topic line. This topic is not squashed? Or is OpenSuse involved in geopolitics?
Again. Billie posted here by mistake and apologized. There is no need to continue this thread. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWr+7AACgkQja8UbcUWM1xMzwD/eroxQi2HBz5UfoValAjqrv4C +qzsDZqH4bZ6kpq4lZkBAIR+tmmdE6LCxocjb+Oa5KAiVQEShCy7QH/djfBPHAf1 =vJgQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/19/2015 09:34 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 2015-07-19 21:26, Frans de Boer wrote:
On 07/17/2015 03:33 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:
Sh.., my postings are delayed because I dare to use the word systemd in my topic line. This topic is not squashed? Or is OpenSuse involved in geopolitics?
Again. Billie posted here by mistake and apologized. There is no need to continue this thread.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
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Ok, of course I did not read the whole posting. Sorry to bother. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
torsdagen den 16 juli 2015 20.33.14 skrev Billie Walsh:
Every year the world hears about a group calling themselves “Palestinians.” In June 1967, so the story goes, the Israelis pushed them out of their homeland. (Or did the Jews throw them out in 1949?) Western people accept that narrative without judging it for accuracy. They do this because they don’t know the true history of the region.
Who were the Palestinians?
Saying this, and claiming that basing ones demands on a piece of land based on the words of a fictional character, called "God" as viable ... can only be called bigotry. Someday, someone should take these books ... Koran, Bible and Old Testament and label them for what they really are ... collection of folklore from several regions, and many different folk groups. The core "Christian" idea, that all mankind has this base, is the only "humane" standpoint, while it's execution certainly has not been "humane". Waging wars, and splitting regions and peoples, based on a fictional character called "God" and mortals interpretation claiming to understand the will and mind of this "God" person, should be labelled for what it is ... fiction. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/05/2015 07:42 PM, Bjarne Örn Hansen wrote:
torsdagen den 16 juli 2015 20.33.14 skrev Billie Walsh:
Every year the world hears about a group calling themselves “Palestinians.” In June 1967, so the story goes, the Israelis pushed them out of their homeland. (Or did the Jews throw them out in 1949?) Western people accept that narrative without judging it for accuracy. They do this because they don’t know the true history of the region.
Who were the Palestinians?
Saying this, and claiming that basing ones demands on a piece of land based on the words of a fictional character, called "God" as viable ... can only be called bigotry.
Someday, someone should take these books ... Koran, Bible and Old Testament and label them for what they really are ... collection of folklore from several regions, and many different folk groups. The core "Christian" idea, that all mankind has this base, is the only "humane" standpoint, while it's execution certainly has not been "humane". Waging wars, and splitting regions and peoples, based on a fictional character called "God" and mortals interpretation claiming to understand the will and mind of this "God" person, should be labelled for what it is ... fiction.
why is this on the list? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2015 01:42, Bjarne Örn Hansen a écrit :
Saying this, and claiming that basing ones demands on a piece of land based
please, not on this list again; Go to OT list if you want thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/06/2015 01:42 AM, Bjarne Örn Hansen wrote:
Saying this, and claiming that basing ones demands on a piece of land based on the words of a fictional character, called "God" as viable ... can only be called bigotry.
Someday, someone should take these books ... Koran, Bible and Old Testament and label them for what they really are ... collection of folklore from several regions, and many different folk groups. The core "Christian" idea, that all mankind has this base, is the only "humane" standpoint, while it's execution certainly has not been "humane". Waging wars, and splitting regions and peoples, based on a fictional character called "God" and mortals interpretation claiming to understand the will and mind of this "God" person, should be labelled for what it is ... fiction.
I'm not sure who you're for or against... but I just remember seeing a documentary on the raw history of the region including the narratives that went on in the heads of the British. The documentary observed (this was a scholar I believe that presented this) that the British went ahead with the colonisation not for practical reasons but for ideological reasons. I believe advisers advised against it but the leadership went ahead anyway. Later in Israél when there was a war against Egypt there was something about the occupation of the West Bank. Israel's military advisers advised against it, strongly. Leadership went ahead anyway, for ideological reasons. They knew the consequences would be dire. But they went ahead. They chose long-lasting conflict over peace because of that. All to claim a holy land. At least that's what I took from it. It was quite enlightening to see some of the choices and narratives without it being about "who is right" and "who is wrong". In other words, some objective history. Then you can form your own opinion and it will be much clearer than anything you can get based on misperceptions presented by those who have a stake in how you think... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Xen wrote:
On 09/06/2015 01:42 AM, Bjarne Örn Hansen wrote:
Saying this, and claiming that basing ones demands on a piece of land based on the words of a fictional character, called "God" as viable ... can only be called bigotry.
Someday, someone should take these books ... Koran, Bible and Old Testament and label them for what they really are ... collection of folklore from several regions, and many different folk groups. The core "Christian" idea, that all mankind has this base, is the only "humane" standpoint, while it's execution certainly has not been "humane". Waging wars, and splitting regions and peoples, based on a fictional character called "God" and mortals interpretation claiming to understand the will and mind of this "God" person, should be labelled for what it is ... fiction.
I'm not sure who you're for or against... but I just remember seeing a documentary on the raw history of the region including the narratives
As jdd and Ruben have already suggested, please continue this topic on opensuse-offtopic, it does not belong here. thanks Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/06/2015 12:00 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
As jdd and Ruben have already suggested, please continue this topic on opensuse-offtopic, it does not belong here.
I am not subscribed to opensuse-offtopic. It is not important enough to "go out of your way" to "continue a conversation elsewhere". I'm not sure if you have ever tried to continue a conversation elsewhere yourself. It does not work that way. Thanks, Xen. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/06/2015 06:04 AM, Xen wrote:
On 09/06/2015 12:00 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
As jdd and Ruben have already suggested, please continue this topic on opensuse-offtopic, it does not belong here.
I am not subscribed to opensuse-offtopic. It is not important enough to "go out of your way" to "continue a conversation elsewhere". I'm not sure if you have ever tried to continue a conversation elsewhere yourself. It does not work that way.
Thanks,
Xen.
This is an inappropriate conversation for this list. Which part of that are you not getting. Are you a fucking idiot? Your a scumbag with a political axe to grind and you don't give a shit about the channel that you pollute to get your political point across. Why the hell did Bjarne Örn Hansen start this up? He is also a dick. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir wrote:
On 09/06/2015 06:04 AM, Xen wrote:
On 09/06/2015 12:00 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
As jdd and Ruben have already suggested, please continue this topic on opensuse-offtopic, it does not belong here.
I am not subscribed to opensuse-offtopic. It is not important enough to "go out of your way" to "continue a conversation elsewhere". I'm not sure if you have ever tried to continue a conversation elsewhere yourself. It does not work that way.
Thanks,
Xen.
This is an inappropriate conversation for this list. Which part of that are you not getting. Are you a fucking idiot? Your a scumbag with a political axe to grind and you don't give a shit about the channel that you pollute to get your political point across.
Why the hell did Bjarne Örn Hansen start this up?
He is also a dick.
Please modify your language, it is highly inappropriate. Second, Bjarne almost certainly just replied to the wrong list, it looks like something that was on opensuse-offtopic a while ago (16 July). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/06/2015 12:43 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Ruben Safir wrote:
This is an inappropriate conversation for this list. Which part of that are you not getting. Are you a fucking idiot? Your a scumbag with a political axe to grind and you don't give a shit about the channel that you pollute to get your political point across.
Why the hell did Bjarne Örn Hansen start this up?
He is also a dick.
Please modify your language, it is highly inappropriate.
Actually I am quite grateful for such language... It gets the point across when something else wouldn't. But at the same time it is insincere to ask people to take a conversation elsewhere because it is "inappropriate" for a channel. Everytime it happens, some of the momentum is lost. The moment is lost. That's all I'm saying. You can be having a great meeting with someone somewhere and bending the rules a bit to have it. Does that make me an asshole? I guess it does. People in open source channels do it all the time and not for good reasons. It also happens in real life, you have a nice chat with someone and some jealous idiot in a position of authority moves the conversation elsewhere or ends the conversation at that precise time and location. But the conversation doesn't pick up, because, perhaps unlike on the Internet, it might mean your chat partner or whomever it is, will likely go and do something else. Such as going for a smoke, whatever. The moment is lost, you may have just lost your only opportunity to meet that person (which I did, thus far). In this case it was also a case of "goes and does something else". I don't like that. I am that ?.... There can be IRC chat channels where nobody says anything for 30 minutes. Two people are having a roast. A third person comes in and says that it would be better to move the conversation elsewhere. You stop talking. Nothing happens in the channel for 30 minutes. You see how insincere this is?. In my real life example the conversation was inapproriate because it was a psychiatric institution and the rules dictate that you can never meet any person there of the opposite sex. And I was doing that. I was meeting a girl. So I broke the rules, I didn't care about the rules, as I do not now. In my first IRC encounter my conversation was inappropriate because I was talking about personal things (programming) with another person I just met, in a channel meant for the development of some Linux distribution. The channel was silent, mostly. It was just me and that guy talking. We were told to take it elsewhere but we never quite picked up the topic again. The topic was lost, and is lost to us since. I am still trying to find him on IRC again. We never quite got to the point of meeting for real (on the web/internet) because of that false start, mostly, I think, I guess. I guess I am a dick for abusing these channels for my purposes. You can call me that. I don't mind, I thank you for it. But they are also a-holes for ruining something that was good and blossoming for their own purposes, which had no real benefit to their channel(s) except for apparently cleaning up the public record because they are all logged, I don't know what else. I don't know what they get from it, that is my misunderstanding perhaps. I cannot place myself in their position. All the same. I guess I have started abusing other channels inappropriate for my goals because the channels that I did have before, are all gone. I'm sorry about that. Please call me out on it. I think, as I have said before, it is a matter of stopping to pursue these goals. I think I should realise where I am at and stop trying to 'live that way' that I lived before. Maybe I should realise that I should go off the internet because there is nothing for me there anymore. As I said before here. I am not sure if that other person responded to that with his almost empty message. So please, and I'm sorry. You're right Ruben. I am that. My apologies. Xen. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hallo Xen, op 06-09-15 om 13:03 schreef je:
You stop talking.
*plonk* -- Harrie Baken | Tekstbureau TekstBaken Copy-editing - proofreading (Dutch) www.tekstbaken.nl Registered Linux user #366560 | openSUSE 13.2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/06/2015 01:08 PM, Harrie Baken wrote:
Hallo Xen, op 06-09-15 om 13:03 schreef je:
You stop talking.
*plonk*
That was as a matter of speaking. It was not related to that guy I met. I actually took it up with that guy in the other or more likely in private. But we didn't pick it up as we did before. But clearly, it happens that a conversation is not picked up elsewhere, as Per Jessen indicated. I am not sure why you are like that. Now and here. While I was having a roast ;-). Regards, and apologies. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/06/2015 05:36 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
Your a scumbag
s/Your/You're -- Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Xen wrote:
On 09/06/2015 12:00 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
As jdd and Ruben have already suggested, please continue this topic on opensuse-offtopic, it does not belong here.
I am not subscribed to opensuse-offtopic. It is not important enough to "go out of your way" to "continue a conversation elsewhere". I'm not sure if you have ever tried to continue a conversation elsewhere yourself. It does not work that way.
I have and sure it does. It happens here every now and then. Sometimes the thread is continued on e.g. -offtopic, sometimes it isn't. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (20)
-
Basil Chupin -
Billie Walsh -
Bjarne Örn Hansen -
Bob Williams -
Carlos E. R. -
David C. Rankin -
Frans de Boer -
Glenn Holmer -
Harrie Baken -
James Knott -
jdd -
John Andersen -
Linda Walsh -
michael norman -
Mihamina Rakotomandimby -
nirsuse -
Per Jessen -
Robert Rea -
Ruben Safir -
Xen