Troubles installing OpenSuSE 15.3 on a HP Spectre laptop
Hello - I have an HP Spectre laptop that came with Windows 10 installed on it. It has a 1Tb SSD drive with almost 800Gb of unallocated space. I want to install OpenSuSE 15.3 x64 on this laptop as part of a dual boot system. I have done this many times in the past on other desktops and laptops but this time I am running into a couple of unexpected problems that is preventing the installation. I created an UEFI USB installation disk from the ISO file that I downloaded from the OpenSuSE downloads website. In the BIOS I turned off "Secure Boot" and set the boot order to allow booting first from USB devices. I did not have to choose whether to use "Legacy Booting" as there is no option in the BIOS for it. The installation of OpenSuSE starts off OK and I had no apparent problem with setting up the network WiFi connection. The installation process does not allow me to manually test and/or check to see if the network really got set up OK. The first problem occurs when the installation process gets to where it is attempting to read the list of Online Repositories. Here I get a warning message "Unable to download list of repositories or no repositories defined." No reason why is given and all I can do about it is to click the OK button and move on. Maybe the WiFi network connection is not working after all? I dunno how to check it at this point in the installation process. Sigh... Next I select for a System Role to use "Desktop with KDE Plasma" and when I click on Next I get a far more serious error message - "An error was found in one of the devices in the system. The information displayed may not be accurate and the installation may fail if you continue." The "Details..." button shows - "cannot delete MdContainer" and again I can only choose "OK" to dismiss this rather useless error message. I got no idea what an MdContainer" is! Google searches suggests it has to do with docker containers but that doesn't help me either as I don't grok much about docker and have never use it. The best discussion about this error, that I found, was at https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/523095/opensuse-leap-15-1-install-s... But the solution appears to be to delete and remove Windows 10 and the partitions it resides in. NOT what I want to do, I want a dual boot system with both OS's. Another suggestion was to contact HP Support which I have done but they seem to be taking a very long time to respond, so I am turning to this forum to see if anyone here can provide and/or guide me to a solution. FYI If I continue on, with the installation process, I reach a dead-end at the point where one is suppose to set up the disk partitions for OpenSuSE. The partitioner does not allow me to access or change anything within the SSD drive. Any attempt to do so, I get told the device is busy. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or solutions offered, much appreciated as always... Marc... -- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-27 22:53 (UTC-0800):
I have an HP Spectre laptop that came with Windows 10 installed on it. It has a 1Tb SSD drive with almost 800Gb of unallocated space. I want to install OpenSuSE 15.3 x64 on this laptop as part of a dual boot system. I have done this many times in the past on other desktops.... Do you have Windows' "fast boot" disabled? Did you reboot Windows rather than "shutting it down", which normally it doesn't really do, before beginning to attempt installation? Is this laptop's hardware newer than 15.3? Hardware lacking CSM support is likely to be too new. If so, you may need to use TW or 15.4 alpha to get needed support. What chipset and CPU is in this laptop?
If you try a net install instead of "DVD" install you're likely to find out for sure whether or not your network hardware is supported. You might be able to get farther along by plugging in an ethernet cable to install, and fuss over how to get wireless to work later. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
On 28/12/2021 07.53, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Hello - I have an HP Spectre laptop that came with Windows 10 installed on it. It has a 1Tb SSD drive with almost 800Gb of unallocated space. I want to install OpenSuSE 15.3 x64 on this laptop as part of a dual boot system. I have done this many times in the past on other desktops and laptops but this time I am running into a couple of unexpected problems that is preventing the installation. I created an UEFI USB installation disk from the ISO file that I downloaded from the OpenSuSE downloads website.
How exactly did you create it?
In the BIOS I turned off "Secure Boot" and set the boot order to allow booting first from USB devices. I did not have to choose whether to use "Legacy Booting" as there is no option in the BIOS for it.
Why turn off secure boot? Windows will complain, and openSUSE should install fine with it. You did not tell Windows to reduce its disk occupation first? It is usually best.
The installation of OpenSuSE starts off OK and I had no apparent problem with setting up the network WiFi connection. The installation process does not allow me to manually test and/or check to see if the network really got set up OK.
Yes, there is a way. There is a combination of keys to start an xterm on the graphical system of the installation. ctrl-alt-x, sihift-alt-x, some combo involving x. I tried it recently, it works, but there is a delay and did not locate the exact key combo. You can then run arbitrary commands there. Or simply type ctrl-alt-f1..f9 and find a working console. ah, Ctrl+Alt+Shift+X https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:YaST_tricks
The first problem occurs when the installation process gets to where it is attempting to read the list of Online Repositories. Here I get a warning message "Unable to download list of repositories or no repositories defined." No reason why is given and all I can do about it is to click the OK button and move on. Maybe the WiFi network connection is not working after all? I dunno how to check it at this point in the installation process. Sigh...
Next I select for a System Role to use "Desktop with KDE Plasma" and when I click on Next I get a far more serious error message -
"An error was found in one of the devices in the system. The information displayed may not be accurate and the installation may fail if you continue."
The "Details..." button shows - "cannot delete MdContainer" and again I can only choose "OK" to dismiss this rather useless error message. I got no idea what an MdContainer" is! Google searches suggests it has to do with docker containers but that doesn't help me either as I don't grok much about docker and have never use it. The best discussion about this error, that I found, was at https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/523095/opensuse-leap-15-1-install-s... But the solution appears to be to delete and remove Windows 10 and the partitions it resides in. NOT what I want to do, I want a dual boot system with both OS's. Another suggestion was to contact HP Support which I have done but they seem to be taking a very long time to respond, so I am turning to this forum to see if anyone here can provide and/or guide me to a solution.
FYI If I continue on, with the installation process, I reach a dead-end at the point where one is suppose to set up the disk partitions for OpenSuSE. The partitioner does not allow me to access or change anything within the SSD drive. Any attempt to do so, I get told the device is busy.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or solutions offered, much appreciated as always... Marc...
The Windows partition may be encrypted; in a half way state waiting for
you to create the password, but it makes reading it from Linux
impossible. I forget the exact name, I should have notes somewhere... Or
emails here.
bitlocker is the name of the thing :-(
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 00:51:19 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Carlos E. R."
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-27 22:53 (UTC-0800):
I have an HP Spectre laptop that came with Windows 10 installed on it. It has a 1Tb SSD drive with almost 800Gb of unallocated space. I want to install OpenSuSE 15.3 x64 on this laptop as part of a dual boot system. I have done this many times in the past on other desktops.... Do you have Windows' "fast boot" disabled? There is no option in the BIOS (AMI Bios) configuration menus to enable or disable "fast boot" Did you reboot Windows rather than "shutting it down", which normally it doesn't really do, before beginning to attempt installation? I shut down (powered off) the laptop, then inserted the USB stick, and
Is this laptop's hardware newer than 15.3? The laptop is the HP Spectre x360 Convertible 15t-eb000, I don't know
Hi Felix, thanks for responding, I will intersperse my answers to your questions below - On 12/27/21 23:21, Felix Miata wrote: then powered up the laptop. The laptop then directly loads and starts the YaST installer. the answer to your question, how would I determine it?
Hardware lacking CSM support is likely to be too new. If so, you may need to use TW or 15.4 alpha to get needed support. What chipset and CPU is in this laptop? The CPU is the Intel Core i7-10750H. I don't know what chipset is being used, there is no mention of it in the specs on HP's website.
If you try a net install instead of "DVD" install you're likely to find out for sure whether or not your network hardware is supported. You might be able to get farther along by plugging in an ethernet cable to install, and fuss over how to get wireless to work later. I figured out that yes the wireless setup is working by looking at the log files of my dhcpd server.
-- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
Hi Carlos, and thank you also for taking the time to reply to me. I will intersperse my replies to your questions below..... On 12/28/21 03:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 28/12/2021 07.53, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Hello - I have an HP Spectre laptop that came with Windows 10 installed on it. It has a 1Tb SSD drive with almost 800Gb of unallocated space. I want to install OpenSuSE 15.3 x64 on this laptop as part of a dual boot system. I have done this many times in the past on other desktops and laptops but this time I am running into a couple of unexpected problems that is preventing the installation. I created an UEFI USB installation disk from the ISO file that I downloaded from the OpenSuSE downloads website.
How exactly did you create it?
I downloaded the "Offline image" for Intel or AMD 64-bit desktops, laptops, and servers (x86_64) from the website at https://get.opensuse.org/leap/ Next I used SuSE Studio Imagewriter to transfer the .iso file to a 64GB USB stick.
In the BIOS I turned off "Secure Boot" and set the boot order to allow booting first from USB devices. I did not have to choose whether to use "Legacy Booting" as there is no option in the BIOS for it.
Why turn off secure boot? Windows will complain, and openSUSE should install fine with it.
That was a suggestion I found from my Google searches in looking for a solution to this problem. I re-enabled it but it made no difference.
You did not tell Windows to reduce its disk occupation first? It is usually best.
I am not sure what you mean or how to go about doing this step. Could you shed a bit more light on what you want me to do? Are you asking me to turn on disk compression or reduce it's partition size or something else?
The installation of OpenSuSE starts off OK and I had no apparent problem with setting up the network WiFi connection. The installation process does not allow me to manually test and/or check to see if the network really got set up OK.
Yes, there is a way. There is a combination of keys to start an xterm on the graphical system of the installation. ctrl-alt-x, sihift-alt-x, some combo involving x. I tried it recently, it works, but there is a delay and did not locate the exact key combo. You can then run arbitrary commands there. Or simply type ctrl-alt-f1..f9 and find a working console.
ah, Ctrl+Alt+Shift+X
No worries, I used a different trick to figure out whether the WiFi connection is working, it is.... Ya gotta love secret incantations, like 'xyzzy' or 'plugh'. If you go back far enough in computers, you will know about the reference I made. ;-)
The first problem occurs when the installation process gets to where it is attempting to read the list of Online Repositories. Here I get a warning message "Unable to download list of repositories or no repositories defined." No reason why is given and all I can do about it is to click the OK button and move on. Maybe the WiFi network connection is not working after all? I dunno how to check it at this point in the installation process. Sigh...
This problem has gone away for some reason, I am no longer getting this error and I am able to download and install the repositories now.
Next I select for a System Role to use "Desktop with KDE Plasma" and when I click on Next I get a far more serious error message -
"An error was found in one of the devices in the system. The information displayed may not be accurate and the installation may fail if you continue."
The "Details..." button shows - "cannot delete MdContainer" and again I can only choose "OK" to dismiss this rather useless error message. I got no idea what an MdContainer" is! Google searches suggests it has to do with docker containers but that doesn't help me either as I don't grok much about docker and have never use it. The best discussion about this error, that I found, was at https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/523095/opensuse-leap-15-1-install-s... But the solution appears to be to delete and remove Windows 10 and the partitions it resides in. NOT what I want to do, I want a dual boot system with both OS's. Another suggestion was to contact HP Support which I have done but they seem to be taking a very long time to respond, so I am turning to this forum to see if anyone here can provide and/or guide me to a solution.
FYI If I continue on, with the installation process, I reach a dead-end at the point where one is suppose to set up the disk partitions for OpenSuSE. The partitioner does not allow me to access or change anything within the SSD drive. Any attempt to do so, I get told the device is busy.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or solutions offered, much appreciated as always... Marc...
The Windows partition may be encrypted; in a half way state waiting for you to create the password, but it makes reading it from Linux impossible. I forget the exact name, I should have notes somewhere... Or emails here.
bitlocker is the name of the thing :-(
I searched around for bitlocker in the Windows 10 OS installed on my laptop. Nearest I can grok this thing, it appears that bitlocker is not turned on and Windoz is whining and suggesting that I should turn it on for Drive C: This is the way it came from the factory, I have never touched the settings for bitlocker, not knowing what the costs/benefits are.... Marc... -- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
On 29/12/2021 00.10, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Hi Felix, thanks for responding, I will intersperse my answers to your questions below -
On 12/27/21 23:21, Felix Miata wrote:
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-27 22:53 (UTC-0800):
I have an HP Spectre laptop that came with Windows 10 installed on it. It has a 1Tb SSD drive with almost 800Gb of unallocated space. I want to install OpenSuSE 15.3 x64 on this laptop as part of a dual boot system. I have done this many times in the past on other desktops.... Do you have Windows' "fast boot" disabled? There is no option in the BIOS (AMI Bios) configuration menus to enable or disable "fast boot"
No, it is a Windows feature.
Did you reboot Windows rather than "shutting it down", which normally it doesn't really do, before beginning to attempt installation? I shut down (powered off) the laptop, then inserted the USB stick, and then powered up the laptop. The laptop then directly loads and starts the YaST installer.
So, you did not reboot Windows. Reboot Windows disables "fast boot" for that occasion. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 29/12/2021 01.15, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Hi Carlos, and thank you also for taking the time to reply to me. I will intersperse my replies to your questions below.....
On 12/28/21 03:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 28/12/2021 07.53, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Hello - I have an HP Spectre laptop that came with Windows 10 installed on it. It has a 1Tb SSD drive with almost 800Gb of unallocated space. I want to install OpenSuSE 15.3 x64 on this laptop as part of a dual boot system. I have done this many times in the past on other desktops and laptops but this time I am running into a couple of unexpected problems that is preventing the installation. I created an UEFI USB installation disk from the ISO file that I downloaded from the OpenSuSE downloads website.
How exactly did you create it?
I downloaded the "Offline image" for Intel or AMD 64-bit desktops, laptops, and servers (x86_64) from the website at https://get.opensuse.org/leap/ Next I used SuSE Studio Imagewriter to transfer the .iso file to a 64GB USB stick.
Ok, that's good. But try to find smaller sticks, 8 GB is more than enough :-)
In the BIOS I turned off "Secure Boot" and set the boot order to allow booting first from USB devices. I did not have to choose whether to use "Legacy Booting" as there is no option in the BIOS for it.
Why turn off secure boot? Windows will complain, and openSUSE should install fine with it. That was a suggestion I found from my Google searches in looking for a solution to this problem. I re-enabled it but it made no difference.
Hum. If you intend to use Windows at some point in time, don't turn off secure boot.
You did not tell Windows to reduce its disk occupation first? It is usually best. I am not sure what you mean or how to go about doing this step. Could you shed a bit more light on what you want me to do? Are you asking me to turn on disk compression or reduce it's partition size or something else?
I mean use Windows itself to reduce its own partition size to make size for the Linux installation. This is easier if done before doing anything else with Windows.
The installation of OpenSuSE starts off OK and I had no apparent problem with setting up the network WiFi connection. The installation process does not allow me to manually test and/or check to see if the network really got set up OK.
Yes, there is a way. There is a combination of keys to start an xterm on the graphical system of the installation. ctrl-alt-x, sihift-alt-x, some combo involving x. I tried it recently, it works, but there is a delay and did not locate the exact key combo. You can then run arbitrary commands there. Or simply type ctrl-alt-f1..f9 and find a working console.
ah, Ctrl+Alt+Shift+X
https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:YaST_tricks No worries, I used a different trick to figure out whether the WiFi connection is working, it is.... Ya gotta love secret incantations, like 'xyzzy' or 'plugh'. If you go back far enough in computers, you will know about the reference I made. ;-)
Doesn't ring a bell :-? Ah, found it - never played that one. :-D I did not like them much, because to the difficulty of the game itself there was the addition of finding the correct wording in English. Pals turned to me to tell them what to type, but I did not know. I spoke better English than them, but not gamesse :-p
The first problem occurs when the installation process gets to where it is attempting to read the list of Online Repositories. Here I get a warning message "Unable to download list of repositories or no repositories defined." No reason why is given and all I can do about it is to click the OK button and move on. Maybe the WiFi network connection is not working after all? I dunno how to check it at this point in the installation process. Sigh...
This problem has gone away for some reason, I am no longer getting this error and I am able to download and install the repositories now.
Ah, good, so the problem is solved, then? ...
The Windows partition may be encrypted; in a half way state waiting for you to create the password, but it makes reading it from Linux impossible. I forget the exact name, I should have notes somewhere... Or emails here.
bitlocker is the name of the thing :-(
I searched around for bitlocker in the Windows 10 OS installed on my laptop. Nearest I can grok this thing, it appears that bitlocker is not turned on and Windoz is whining and suggesting that I should turn it on for Drive C: This is the way it came from the factory, I have never touched the settings for bitlocker, not knowing what the costs/benefits are....
Read the mail thread I pointed you to before, all I know is explained there. Start by finding the partition table and compare with mine in the first post. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-28 12:10 (UTC-0800):
Felix Miata wrote:
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-27 22:53 (UTC-0800):
Do you have Windows' "fast boot" disabled?
There is no option in the BIOS (AMI Bios) configuration menus to enable or disable "fast boot"
As answered by Carlos, this is something done while booted to Windows.
Did you reboot Windows rather than "shutting it down", which normally it doesn't really do, before beginning to attempt installation?
I shut down (powered off) the laptop, then inserted the USB stick, and then powered up the laptop. The laptop then directly loads and starts the YaST installer.
If reboot is not how you last exited Windows, you cannot expect the Windows filesystems to be accessible to Linux or YaST.
Is this laptop's hardware newer than 15.3?
The laptop is the HP Spectre x360 Convertible 15t-eb000, I don't know the answer to your question, how would I determine it?
It's not always readily possible. The object is search results for date of introduction of the model, however....
Hardware lacking CSM support is likely to be too new. If so, you may need to use TW or 15.4 alpha to get needed support. What chipset and CPU is in this laptop?
The CPU is the Intel Core i7-10750H. I don't know what chipset is being used, there is no mention of it in the specs on HP's website.
The i7-10750H is a Comet Lake CPU, introduced Q2'20, so should be fully supported by 15.3, which was released about a year later. Lack of hardware support is typical of devices newer than either the kernel version, or less than about 4-6 months prior to distro release date. Kernel version isn't a very reliable indicator in Leap due to the extent of backported kernel patches coming from SLE. I have a 6 core, 12 thread Rocket Lake i5-11400, which was released Q1'21, and doesn't seem to have gotten enough rigorous testing of edge cases before now. It works fine with one display, but locks up as the graphics driver engages KMS during boot with more than one connected display, which it does also with latest TW kernel. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-28 12:10 (UTC-0800):
Felix Miata wrote:
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-27 22:53 (UTC-0800): Do you have Windows' "fast boot" disabled? There is no option in the BIOS (AMI Bios) configuration menus to enable or disable "fast boot" As answered by Carlos, this is something done while booted to Windows. OK, I found it, and discovered that fast booting was not turned on. I left it turned off....
Did you reboot Windows rather than "shutting it down", which normally it doesn't really do, before beginning to attempt installation? I shut down (powered off) the laptop, then inserted the USB stick, and then powered up the laptop. The laptop then directly loads and starts the YaST installer.
If reboot is not how you last exited Windows, you cannot expect the Windows filesystems to be accessible to Linux or YaST. OK, I tried it by inserting the USB stick with OpenSuSE installation ISO into the laptop while Windows was running. Then I had Windows do a reboot. The OpenSuSE installation started up OK but I still hit the same
Morning Felix - ;-) Thanks again for responding, I will again intersperse my comments after your suggestions - On 12/28/21 21:56, Felix Miata wrote: problem when I reached the point of setting up partitions for OpenSuSE. The installer "thinks" the SSD drive partitions are busy, and gives me the "cannot delete MdContainer" error message. So no joy....
Is this laptop's hardware newer than 15.3? The laptop is the HP Spectre x360 Convertible 15t-eb000, I don't know the answer to your question, how would I determine it?
It's not always readily possible. The object is search results for date of introduction of the model, however....
Hardware lacking CSM support is likely to be too new. If so, you may need to use TW or 15.4 alpha to get needed support. What chipset and CPU is in this laptop?
The CPU is the Intel Core i7-10750H. I don't know what chipset is being used, there is no mention of it in the specs on HP's website.
The i7-10750H is a Comet Lake CPU, introduced Q2'20, so should be fully supported by 15.3, which was released about a year later. Lack of hardware support is typical of devices newer than either the kernel version, or less than about 4-6 months prior to distro release date. Kernel version isn't a very reliable indicator in Leap due to the extent of backported kernel patches coming from SLE. I have a 6 core, 12 thread Rocket Lake i5-11400, which was released Q1'21, and doesn't seem to have gotten enough rigorous testing of edge cases before now. It works fine with one display, but locks up as the graphics driver engages KMS during boot with more than one connected display, which it does also with latest TW kernel.
Hm-mm I think you are suggesting I try 15.4 or TW? I can give that a shot today and will report back on the results. Thanks again, Marc -- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
On 29/12/2021 17.18, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Morning Felix - ;-) Thanks again for responding, I will again intersperse my comments after your suggestions -
...
If reboot is not how you last exited Windows, you cannot expect the Windows filesystems to be accessible to Linux or YaST. OK, I tried it by inserting the USB stick with OpenSuSE installation ISO into the laptop while Windows was running. Then I had Windows do a reboot. The OpenSuSE installation started up OK but I still hit the same problem when I reached the point of setting up partitions for OpenSuSE. The installer "thinks" the SSD drive partitions are busy, and gives me the "cannot delete MdContainer" error message. So no joy....
Post the partition table, done with "fdisk -l" It smells of encryption, but I want to confirm. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 12/29/21 11:17, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Post the partition table, done with "fdisk -l"
It smells of encryption, but I want to confirm.
Thanks again Carlos for your response, here you go... (I have troubles trying to figure out how to send a file with the fdisk info from a partially installed system! Gave up and used a Live OpenSuSE 15.2 USB stick and then had to figure out how to set up a Bluetooth connection (Bluetooth user interfaces/model is something I have never been able to grok, so it is a bumbling trial and error process for me!) /dev/sda is the USB stick with Live OpenSuSE. This doesn't show anything about the nearly 900 GiB unallocated partition on the SSD drive. I thought, while I had the live version of OpenSuSE up and running, I would try to use the YaST partitioner to set up the partitions for the new 15.3 system. No joy! Got slapped aside and told that the SSD device was busy and could not be altered. Anywise here you go - Marc... localhost:/home/linux # fdisk -l Disk /dev/loop0: 821.1 MiB, 860946432 bytes, 1681536 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk /dev/loop1: 4.5 GiB, 4818206720 bytes, 9410560 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes The backup GPT table is not on the end of the device. This problem will be corrected by write. Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 953.9 GiB, 1024209543168 bytes, 2000409264 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AH Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: B32172FB-2CEE-4E2C-B94B-46DAABE35591 Device Start End Sectors Size Type /dev/nvme0n1p1 2048 534527 532480 260M EFI System /dev/nvme0n1p2 534528 567295 32768 16M Microsoft reserved /dev/nvme0n1p3 567296 360937471 360370176 171.9G Microsoft basic data /dev/nvme0n1p4 1999337472 2000392191 1054720 515M Windows recovery environment Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk /dev/sda: 57.8 GiB, 62026416128 bytes, 121145344 sectors Disk model: USB 3.1 FD Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: dos Disk identifier: 0xf727289d Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type /dev/sda1 * 64 1886035 1885972 920.9M cd unknown /dev/sda2 1886036 1916755 30720 15M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32) /dev/sda3 1916928 121145343 119228416 56.9G 83 Linux -- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
On 29/12/2021 23.11, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
On 12/29/21 11:17, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Post the partition table, done with "fdisk -l"
It smells of encryption, but I want to confirm.
Thanks again Carlos for your response, here you go... (I have troubles trying to figure out how to send a file with the fdisk info from a partially installed system! Gave up and used a Live OpenSuSE 15.2 USB stick and then had to figure out how to set up a Bluetooth connection (Bluetooth user interfaces/model is something I have never been able to grok, so it is a bumbling trial and error process for me!) /dev/sda is the USB stick with Live OpenSuSE. This doesn't show anything about the nearly 900 GiB unallocated partition on the SSD drive.
:-o :-?
I thought, while I had the live version of OpenSuSE up and running, I would try to use the YaST partitioner to set up the partitions for the new 15.3 system. No joy! Got slapped aside and told that the SSD device was busy and could not be altered. Anywise here you go -
Marc...
localhost:/home/linux # fdisk -l Disk /dev/loop0: 821.1 MiB, 860946432 bytes, 1681536 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk /dev/loop1: 4.5 GiB, 4818206720 bytes, 9410560 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Ok, that must be a thing from the live, ignore it.
The backup GPT table is not on the end of the device. This problem will be corrected by write. Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 953.9 GiB, 1024209543168 bytes, 2000409264 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AH Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: B32172FB-2CEE-4E2C-B94B-46DAABE35591
Device Start End Sectors Size Type /dev/nvme0n1p1 2048 534527 532480 260M EFI System /dev/nvme0n1p2 534528 567295 32768 16M Microsoft reserved /dev/nvme0n1p3 567296 360937471 360370176 171.9G Microsoft basic data /dev/nvme0n1p4 1999337472 2000392191 1054720 515M Windows recovery environment
This an nvme "disk" of about 1TB. If I read it correctly, there is a large hole in it. There doesn't seem to be an bitlocker encrypted partition there, which is good. It should allow you to create partitions in that empty space.
Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I have no idea what this is. Another SSD?
Disk /dev/sda: 57.8 GiB, 62026416128 bytes, 121145344 sectors Disk model: USB 3.1 FD Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: dos Disk identifier: 0xf727289d
Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type /dev/sda1 * 64 1886035 1885972 920.9M cd unknown /dev/sda2 1886036 1916755 30720 15M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32) /dev/sda3 1916928 121145343 119228416 56.9G 83 Linux
And the live. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100):
Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I have no idea what this is. Another SSD?
Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optane-mem... -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote:
Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100):
Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I have no idea what this is. Another SSD?
Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optane-mem...
Yeah, but what for? What's it's job? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 2021-12-29 20:47:55 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote: |> Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100): |>> Marc Chamberlin wrote: |>>> Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors |>>> Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO |>>> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes |>>> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |>>> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |>> |>> I have no idea what this is. Another SSD? |> |> Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: |> <https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optan |>e-memory-h10-with-solid-state-storage-intel-optane-memory-32gb-intel-qlc- |>3d-nand-ssd-1tb-m-2-80mm-pcie-3-0.html> | |Yeah, but what for? What's it's job?
The webpage says it's an M.2 form factor memory module. Leslie -- Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
* Carlos E. R.
On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote:
Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100):
Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I have no idea what this is. Another SSD?
Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optane-mem...
Yeah, but what for? What's it's job?
us it as cache -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc What sort of day was it? A day like all days, filled with those events that alter and illuminate our times...
Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 03:47 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optane-mem...
Yeah, but what for? What's it's job?
Are your search engines broken? https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/what-is-intel-optane-memory Basically AI on an NVME SSD to speed up common tasks, a form of caching. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2021-12-29 22:56 (UTC-0500):
* Carlos E. R. composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optane-mem...
Yeah, but what for? What's it's job?
us it as cache
Use? According to Intel, only Windows supports it for its intended purpose, but since Linux obviously finds it as an NVME, its best use might be for installing Firefox application, Firefox cache, and Firefox profiles, maybe mounting as /usr/local/, and same for any other web browser frequently used instead or in addition. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
On 30/12/2021 04.46, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-12-29 20:47:55 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote: |> Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100): |>> Marc Chamberlin wrote: |>>> Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors |>>> Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO |>>> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes |>>> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |>>> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |>> |>> I have no idea what this is. Another SSD? |> |> Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: |> <https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optan |>e-memory-h10-with-solid-state-storage-intel-optane-memory-32gb-intel-qlc- |>3d-nand-ssd-1tb-m-2-80mm-pcie-3-0.html> | |Yeah, but what for? What's it's job?
The webpage says it's an M.2 form factor memory module.
I know that. You don't understand. The laptop has two such disks: one of 1 TB, and one of 32GB. WHY? Pattrick and Felix says use as cache. That would make sense if the big one was rotating rust, but both are terribly fast, both are nvme or M.2 disks. There is no speeding. Of course, if it is working as cache, that would explain why the installation fails. I would then open up the machine and remove it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 12/30/21 01:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 30/12/2021 04.46, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-12-29 20:47:55 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote: |> Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100): |>> Marc Chamberlin wrote: |>>> Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors |>>> Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO |>>> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes |>>> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |>>> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |>> |>> I have no idea what this is. Another SSD? |> |> Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: |> <https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optan |>e-memory-h10-with-solid-state-storage-intel-optane-memory-32gb-intel-qlc-
|>3d-nand-ssd-1tb-m-2-80mm-pcie-3-0.html> | |Yeah, but what for? What's it's job?
The webpage says it's an M.2 form factor memory module.
I know that.
You don't understand.
The laptop has two such disks: one of 1 TB, and one of 32GB. WHY?
Pattrick and Felix says use as cache. That would make sense if the big one was rotating rust, but both are terribly fast, both are nvme or M.2 disks. There is no speeding.
Of course, if it is working as cache, that would explain why the installation fails. I would then open up the machine and remove it.
Hi Carlos - It is fun reading all the comments about how my laptop works! LOL Anywise maybe this link will help, it is both a technical explanation and a bunch of HP's marketing hype - https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/what-is-intel-optane-memory HTHs I finally got a disappointing call back from HP and they were most unhelpful! I talked to two of the service support techs, then escalated my conversation to a couple of their supervisors. I got the same reaction from all of them, the moment I mentioned I wanted to install Linux also and have dual boot capability, it was like having a door slammed in my face. Their response was "not our problem and not something we are going to help you with" So I guess the lesson is - if you want help from HP, DON'T mention Linux! I can understand their reluctance to give help on an OS that they don't support, but all I wanted to know is if there is something about the way Windows was installed, or something about the laptop hardware, that is preventing a dual boot system from being created. That is not a Linux question but a generic question about their product, but after hearing the word Linux they refused to "hear" the question I was trying to ask. My Google searches has led me to a speculation that HP may have installed Windows inside a Docker container which is preventing access to the SSD drive and partition tables, but I know nothing about Docker containers and whether that is a possibility or not. I tried to ask HP support that question also, but they were already refusing to offer any support, so refused to answer that question as well. Sigh, so I guess I am on my own and cannot ask HP any technical questions. Kinda a rough way to treat their customers IMHO! Can anyone tell me if Docker container could be the problem? I would like to get a second opinion since I don't want to have to learn all about Docker containers if I don't have to. If so, couldn't I just blow away the Windows installation that HP did, and reinstall Windows in a regular fashion, or would doing so wreck Window's capability to use the Optane memory cache? Seems like that is a pretty risky thing to do... As always, much appreciate any thoughts, advice, and/or guidance to a solution... Marc... -- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
Le 30/12/2021 à 17:26, Marc Chamberlin a écrit :
you want help from HP, DON'T mention Linux! I can understand their reluctance to give help on an OS that they don't support, but all I wanted to know is if there is something about the way Windows was installed, or something about the laptop hardware, that is preventing a dual boot system from being created.
say "I want to have a double boot between Windows 10 and Windows 11" :-)) jdd -- http://dodin.org http://valeriedodin.com
On 30/12/2021 17.36, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 30/12/2021 à 17:26, Marc Chamberlin a écrit :
you want help from HP, DON'T mention Linux! I can understand their reluctance to give help on an OS that they don't support, but all I wanted to know is if there is something about the way Windows was installed, or something about the laptop hardware, that is preventing a dual boot system from being created.
say "I want to have a double boot between Windows 10 and Windows 11" :-))
Problem is, apparently HP does sell Linux laptops. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 30/12/2021 17.26, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
On 12/30/21 01:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 30/12/2021 04.46, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-12-29 20:47:55 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote: |> Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100): |>> Marc Chamberlin wrote:
...
Hi Carlos - It is fun reading all the comments about how my laptop works! LOL Anywise maybe this link will help, it is both a technical explanation and a bunch of HP's marketing hype - https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/what-is-intel-optane-memory HTHs Yes, this is what others have suggested you have, but it makes no sense.
You have two disks: Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 953.9 GiB, 1024209543168 bytes, 2000409264 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AH Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: B32172FB-2CEE-4E2C-B94B-46DAABE35591 Device Start End Sectors Size Type /dev/nvme0n1p1 2048 534527 532480 260M EFI System /dev/nvme0n1p2 534528 567295 32768 16M Microsoft reserved /dev/nvme0n1p3 567296 360937471 360370176 171.9G Microsoft basic data /dev/nvme0n1p4 1999337472 2000392191 1054720 515M Windows recovery environment And Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Notice that both are /dev/nvme, meaning M.2 form factor for *both*. If both are M.2 nvme "disks", optane makes no sense, both are immensely fast. However, *the system may be lying*, and in fact the first disk is rotating rust. Do you hear it spinning? It might be an SSD, but I doubt that adding optane to that is that big an advantage. In any case, you have to kill that Optane. Impossible to install Linux. How, I do not know. Return the laptop? (I would do that, eyes closed) Or open it up, and report what is there. Remove the Optane, replace rotating rust with actual SSD disk. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 12/30/21 11:26, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
On 12/30/21 01:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 30/12/2021 04.46, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-12-29 20:47:55 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote: |> Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100): |>> Marc Chamberlin wrote: |>>> Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors |>>> Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO |>>> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes |>>> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |>>> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |>> |>> I have no idea what this is. Another SSD? |> |> Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: |> <https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optan |>e-memory-h10-with-solid-state-storage-intel-optane-memory-32gb-intel-qlc-
|>3d-nand-ssd-1tb-m-2-80mm-pcie-3-0.html> | |Yeah, but what for? What's it's job?
The webpage says it's an M.2 form factor memory module.
I know that.
You don't understand.
The laptop has two such disks: one of 1 TB, and one of 32GB. WHY?
Pattrick and Felix says use as cache. That would make sense if the big one was rotating rust, but both are terribly fast, both are nvme or M.2 disks. There is no speeding.
Of course, if it is working as cache, that would explain why the installation fails. I would then open up the machine and remove it.
Hi Carlos - It is fun reading all the comments about how my laptop works! LOL Anywise maybe this link will help, it is both a technical explanation and a bunch of HP's marketing hype - https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/what-is-intel-optane-memory HTHs
I finally got a disappointing call back from HP and they were most unhelpful! I talked to two of the service support techs, then escalated my conversation to a couple of their supervisors. I got the same reaction from all of them, the moment I mentioned I wanted to install Linux also and have dual boot capability, it was like having a door slammed in my face. Their response was "not our problem and not something we are going to help you with" So I guess the lesson is - if you want help from HP, DON'T mention Linux! I can understand their reluctance to give help on an OS that they don't support, but all I wanted to know is if there is something about the way Windows was installed, or something about the laptop hardware, that is preventing a dual boot system from being created. That is not a Linux question but a generic question about their product, but after hearing the word Linux they refused to "hear" the question I was trying to ask.
My Google searches has led me to a speculation that HP may have installed Windows inside a Docker container which is preventing access to the SSD drive and partition tables, but I know nothing about Docker containers and whether that is a possibility or not. I tried to ask HP support that question also, but they were already refusing to offer any support, so refused to answer that question as well. Sigh, so I guess I am on my own and cannot ask HP any technical questions. Kinda a rough way to treat their customers IMHO!
Can anyone tell me if Docker container could be the problem? I would like to get a second opinion since I don't want to have to learn all about Docker containers if I don't have to. If so, couldn't I just blow away the Windows installation that HP did, and reinstall Windows in a regular fashion, or would doing so wreck Window's capability to use the Optane memory cache? Seems like that is a pretty risky thing to do...
As always, much appreciate any thoughts, advice, and/or guidance to a solution... Marc...
Fwiw, AFAIK Docker is a type of cross-platform sandbox which typically runs under a virtual machine or hypervisor. Among other things, it isolates the file system. My memory may be faulty, but IIRC I've seen ref's on the web indicating this tool is used on enterprise-class systems (which the Spectre falls under) on top of Intel's hypervisor. Boot into windows and verify if Docker is installed /and/ whether it is running. From the windows power shell (this is important, as not all commands works from cmd) do: docker ps More discussion and examples here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57108228/how-to-check-if-docker-is-runni... Maybe first check (if I missed it in all the replies in this thread) whether virtualization is enabled in the bios. If so, disable it and try again. This machine is a discontinued model. If it is on your machine and you purchased from HP directly, contact HP Support to determine how it is used and how to remove it before trying anything else. There have been issues with it on Windows 10 Home machines. However, by chance if you purchased it from a 3rd-party I would inquire there first. HTH, --dg 15.3
Thanks Carlos, I will intersperse my responses to your comments and questions below - On 12/30/21 10:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 30/12/2021 17.26, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
On 12/30/21 01:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 30/12/2021 04.46, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-12-29 20:47:55 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote: |> Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100): |>> Marc Chamberlin wrote:
...
Hi Carlos - It is fun reading all the comments about how my laptop works! LOL Anywise maybe this link will help, it is both a technical explanation and a bunch of HP's marketing hype - https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/what-is-intel-optane-memory HTHs Yes, this is what others have suggested you have, but it makes no sense.
You have two disks:
Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 953.9 GiB, 1024209543168 bytes, 2000409264 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AH Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: B32172FB-2CEE-4E2C-B94B-46DAABE35591
Device Start End Sectors Size Type /dev/nvme0n1p1 2048 534527 532480 260M EFI System /dev/nvme0n1p2 534528 567295 32768 16M Microsoft reserved /dev/nvme0n1p3 567296 360937471 360370176 171.9G Microsoft basic data /dev/nvme0n1p4 1999337472 2000392191 1054720 515M Windows recovery environment
And
Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Notice that both are /dev/nvme, meaning M.2 form factor for *both*. If both are M.2 nvme "disks", optane makes no sense, both are immensely fast.
However, *the system may be lying*, and in fact the first disk is rotating rust. Do you hear it spinning?
I am gonna remember that technical term "rotating rust"! Still getting a good chuckle out of it! No there is no spinners on this laptop, all solid state with no moving parts.
It might be an SSD, but I doubt that adding optane to that is that big an advantage.
It is an SSD, I cannot make a comment about the optane memory other than to say this laptop is fast! Boot up time is under 3 seconds, and most responses are almost instantaneous. Fastest laptop I have worked with yet!
In any case, you have to kill that Optane. Impossible to install Linux.
That doesn't bode well for me! I don't think it is possible to remove the Optane memory, I think it is built in as part of the SSD memory card. I took a look at the laptop to see how it might be opened. Does not look easy or obvious so will have to do further research...
How, I do not know. Return the laptop? (I would do that, eyes closed)
Naw if all else fails, I will give this laptop to my wife, who has been whining about how slow her laptop is. I will have to buy another one for myself and strongly suspect it won't be an HP one.
Or open it up, and report what is there. Remove the Optane, replace rotating rust with actual SSD disk.
See above responses, this is easier said than done but I will work on it. BTW, I tried to install OpenSuSE 15.4 Alpha and ran into the exact same snag! No joy getting the partitioner to work with the SSD and Optane drives, and I get the exact same error messages. I also turned off Virtualization support in the BIOS and still no joy getting the OpenSuSE install of 15.4 to work. Guess I will try TW next... Thanks again so much for your thoughts, Marc... -- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-30 16:08 (UTC-0800):
Carlos E. R. wrote:
...Remove the Optane...
Have you ever had your hands on one? That sounds like utter nonsense. Optane technology provides the fastest (and most expensive) NVMEs available. If you don't want it used, disable it in BIOS, or put a partition table on it with a full disk partition labeled Windows. Or, make a RAMdisk out of it. If you must take it out, send it to me. I have two M.2 sockets waiting for one. :)
...this is easier said than done but I will work on it.
Don't. At least, not until and unless the software/BIOS options fail to produce fruit. Surely there's some forum on the web where Linux users with Optane have discussed putting them to use. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
On 12/30/21 12:23, DennisG wrote: Hi Dennis, thanks for jumping in and sharing your thoughts, much appreciated. I will intersperse my responses to your thoughts/suggestions below -
On 12/30/21 11:26, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
... stuff sent to the bit bucket
My Google searches has led me to a speculation that HP may have installed Windows inside a Docker container which is preventing access to the SSD drive and partition tables, but I know nothing about Docker containers and whether that is a possibility or not. I tried to ask HP support that question also, but they were already refusing to offer any support, so refused to answer that question as well. Sigh, so I guess I am on my own and cannot ask HP any technical questions. Kinda a rough way to treat their customers IMHO!
Can anyone tell me if Docker container could be the problem? I would like to get a second opinion since I don't want to have to learn all about Docker containers if I don't have to. If so, couldn't I just blow away the Windows installation that HP did, and reinstall Windows in a regular fashion, or would doing so wreck Window's capability to use the Optane memory cache? Seems like that is a pretty risky thing to do...
As always, much appreciate any thoughts, advice, and/or guidance to a solution... Marc...
Fwiw, AFAIK Docker is a type of cross-platform sandbox which typically runs under a virtual machine or hypervisor. Among other things, it isolates the file system. My memory may be faulty, but IIRC I've seen ref's on the web indicating this tool is used on enterprise-class systems (which the Spectre falls under) on top of Intel's hypervisor.
Boot into windows and verify if Docker is installed /and/ whether it is running. From the windows power shell (this is important, as not all commands works from cmd) do:
docker ps
More discussion and examples here:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57108228/how-to-check-if-docker-is-runni...
Well I gave this a shot, but Windoz Power Shell gave me the middle finger and said the docker command was unknown. So no joy. It appears Windoz 10 gave me several different Powershells to work with, not knowing the difference I tried them all and got the same finger...
Maybe first check (if I missed it in all the replies in this thread) whether virtualization is enabled in the bios. If so, disable it and try again.
I found it in the BIOS and turned it off as suggested. Again no joy installing OpenSuSE.
This machine is a discontinued model.
Yeah I know, introduced in late 2020 and I bought this laptop less than a year ago! Gotta love short product lifespans these days!
If it is on your machine and you purchased from HP directly, contact HP Support to determine how it is used and how to remove it before trying anything else. There have been issues with it on Windows 10 Home machines.
However, by chance if you purchased it from a 3rd-party I would inquire there first.
If you have read my previous posting, I tried contacting HP support and found them to be useless!
HTH,
It does... Thanks, Marc
--dg 15.3
-- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-30 16:08 (UTC-0800):
Optane https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/thread/D3F...
This problem is really one that belongs on the factory list, where some dev is apt to notice; and in a bug report. An Optane SSD should not cause the partitioner to hang. Optane is several years old, about 4 Intel CPU generations. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
On 31/12/2021 02.11, Felix Miata wrote:
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-30 16:08 (UTC-0800):
Optane https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/thread/D3F...
This problem is really one that belongs on the factory list, where some dev is apt to notice; and in a bug report. An Optane SSD should not cause the partitioner to hang. Optane is several years old, about 4 Intel CPU generations.
Think Optimus. I know people with that hardware for years still swearing at it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 12/30/21 5:11 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-30 16:08 (UTC-0800):
Optane https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/thread/D3F...
This problem is really one that belongs on the factory list, where some dev is apt to notice; and in a bug report. An Optane SSD should not cause the partitioner to hang. Optane is several years old, about 4 Intel CPU generations.
Thanks Felix, I will try and start a conversation on the factory list and submit a bug report as suggested. Hope I can find a solution soon! As ever, grateful for all the help given. Marc -- --... ...-- .----. ... -.. . .-- .- --... .--. -..- .-- -- .- .-. -.-. <b>Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc.<br> His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications.<br> To boldly go where no Marc has gone before!<br></b>
On 2021-12-29 23:50:02 Felix Miata wrote:
|Patrick Shanahan composed on 2021-12-29 22:56 (UTC-0500): |> * Carlos E. R. composed: |>> Felix Miata wrote: |>> > Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: |>> > <https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-op |>> >tane-memory-h10-with-solid-state-storage-intel-optane-memory-32gb-inte |>> >l-qlc-3d-nand-ssd-1tb-m-2-80mm-pcie-3-0.html> |>> |>> Yeah, but what for? What's it's job? |> |> us it as cache | |Use? | |According to Intel, only Windows supports it for its intended purpose, but | since Linux obviously finds it as an NVME, its best use might be for | installing Firefox application, Firefox cache, and Firefox profiles, | maybe mounting as /usr/local/, and same for any other web browser | frequently used instead or in addition.
Yes, use as /usr/local would be appropriate. Leslie -- Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 1:11 AM Marc Chamberlin
Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 953.9 GiB, 1024209543168 bytes, 2000409264 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AH ...
Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO
This is hybrid SSD memory which is using Optane as cache for SSD. Cache is implemented by Intel RST driver which is using imsm metadata. Linux (mdadm) detects imsm format but it does not support this specific container type so cannot modify it. Disable caching in Windows and BIOS, it may allow Linux to work with both drives independently.
On 31/12/2021 07.02, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-12-29 23:50:02 Felix Miata wrote:
|Patrick Shanahan composed on 2021-12-29 22:56 (UTC-0500): |> * Carlos E. R. composed: |>> Felix Miata wrote: |>> > Google returned Intel Optane Memory for HBRPEKNX0203AHO search: |>> > <https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-op |>> >tane-memory-h10-with-solid-state-storage-intel-optane-memory-32gb-inte |>> >l-qlc-3d-nand-ssd-1tb-m-2-80mm-pcie-3-0.html> |>> |>> Yeah, but what for? What's it's job? |> |> us it as cache | |Use? | |According to Intel, only Windows supports it for its intended purpose, but | since Linux obviously finds it as an NVME, its best use might be for | installing Firefox application, Firefox cache, and Firefox profiles, | maybe mounting as /usr/local/, and same for any other web browser | frequently used instead or in addition.
Yes, use as /usr/local would be appropriate.
You can not use it at all, because Windows assumes it is his own in exclusivity. It is a double boot machine. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 31/12/2021 01.08, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Thanks Carlos, I will intersperse my responses to your comments and questions below -
On 12/30/21 10:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 30/12/2021 17.26, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
On 12/30/21 01:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 30/12/2021 04.46, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-12-29 20:47:55 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|On 30/12/2021 01.51, Felix Miata wrote: |> Carlos E. R. composed on 2021-12-29 23:31 (UTC+0100): |>> Marc Chamberlin wrote:
...
Hi Carlos - It is fun reading all the comments about how my laptop works! LOL Anywise maybe this link will help, it is both a technical explanation and a bunch of HP's marketing hype - https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/what-is-intel-optane-memory HTHs Yes, this is what others have suggested you have, but it makes no sense.
You have two disks:
Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 953.9 GiB, 1024209543168 bytes, 2000409264 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AH Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: B32172FB-2CEE-4E2C-B94B-46DAABE35591
Device Start End Sectors Size Type /dev/nvme0n1p1 2048 534527 532480 260M EFI System /dev/nvme0n1p2 534528 567295 32768 16M Microsoft reserved /dev/nvme0n1p3 567296 360937471 360370176 171.9G Microsoft basic data /dev/nvme0n1p4 1999337472 2000392191 1054720 515M Windows recovery environment
And
Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 27.3 GiB, 29260513280 bytes, 57149440 sectors Disk model: INTEL HBRPEKNX0203AHO Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Notice that both are /dev/nvme, meaning M.2 form factor for *both*. If both are M.2 nvme "disks", optane makes no sense, both are immensely fast.
However, *the system may be lying*, and in fact the first disk is rotating rust. Do you hear it spinning?
I forgot that the form factor is M.2, rotating rust can't be M.2, AFAIK.
I am gonna remember that technical term "rotating rust"! Still getting a good chuckle out of it! No there is no spinners on this laptop, all solid state with no moving parts.
Ok. Yeah, I also like that name. I did not invent it, of course :-D
It might be an SSD, but I doubt that adding optane to that is that big an advantage.
It is an SSD, I cannot make a comment about the optane memory other than to say this laptop is fast! Boot up time is under 3 seconds, and most responses are almost instantaneous. Fastest laptop I have worked with yet!
Your link actually says what it is, I missed its significance. It is a combo, a single unit seen by fdisk as two. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189611/intel-optane-mem... Capacity 1 TB Form Factor M.2 22 x 80mm Interface PCIe 3.0 x4, NVMe Description Introducing the new Intel® Optane™ Memory H10 with Solid State Storage which combines two breakthrough technologies, Low-latency Intel® Optane™ technology and high-density Intel® QLC 3D NAND in a single M.2 2280 form factor.
In any case, you have to kill that Optane. Impossible to install Linux.
That doesn't bode well for me! I don't think it is possible to remove the Optane memory, I think it is built in as part of the SSD memory card. I took a look at the laptop to see how it might be opened. Does not look easy or obvious so will have to do further research...
No longer needed...
How, I do not know. Return the laptop? (I would do that, eyes closed)
Naw if all else fails, I will give this laptop to my wife, who has been whining about how slow her laptop is. I will have to buy another one for myself and strongly suspect it won't be an HP one.
Actually, that's a very good idea :-) Using this machine in Linux will be a waste of shorts, as you will never be able to use it in the fast Optane mode. If the Bios can be told to separate both disks and handle them separately, you could install Linux to the small and fast ssd, and have home in the big side. And then maybe install Windows solely on the big ssd. Guess: that big ssd must be relatively slow. They are inherently fast, so the reason to use Optane on one still eludes me, unless it is a relatively slow unit, maybe cheaper. Normally one would use a single fast 1 TB M.2 nvme unit and be done. So, my recommendation, is forget Linux, and use this machine for Windows. Get a proper machine for Linux, or for double boot. Maybe prices in January will drop a bit :-)
Or open it up, and report what is there. Remove the Optane, replace rotating rust with actual SSD disk.
See above responses, this is easier said than done but I will work on it.
BTW, I tried to install OpenSuSE 15.4 Alpha and ran into the exact same snag! No joy getting the partitioner to work with the SSD and Optane drives, and I get the exact same error messages. I also turned off Virtualization support in the BIOS and still no joy getting the OpenSuSE install of 15.4 to work. Guess I will try TW next...
It is possible that the combo is set to some strange Raid mode, as mentioned by others.
Thanks again so much for your thoughts, Marc...
Welcome. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 31/12/2021 01.53, Felix Miata wrote:
Marc Chamberlin composed on 2021-12-30 16:08 (UTC-0800):
Carlos E. R. wrote:
...Remove the Optane...
Have you ever had your hands on one? That sounds like utter nonsense. Optane technology provides the fastest (and most expensive) NVMEs available. If you don't want it used,
Remove "logically" :-)
disable it in BIOS,
or put a partition table on it with a full disk partition labeled Windows. Or, make a RAMdisk out of it. If you must take it out, send it to me. I have two M.2 sockets waiting for one. :)
...this is easier said than done but I will work on it.
Don't. At least, not until and unless the software/BIOS options fail to produce fruit. Surely there's some forum on the web where Linux users with Optane have discussed putting them to use.
-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 12/30/21 20:07, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
On 12/30/21 12:23, DennisG wrote:
Hi Dennis, thanks for jumping in and sharing your thoughts, much appreciated. I will intersperse my responses to your thoughts/suggestions below -
On 12/30/21 11:26, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
... stuff sent to the bit bucket
My Google searches has led me to a speculation that HP may have installed Windows inside a Docker container which is preventing access to the SSD drive and partition tables, but I know nothing about Docker containers and whether that is a possibility or not. I tried to ask HP support that question also, but they were already refusing to offer any support, so refused to answer that question as well. Sigh, so I guess I am on my own and cannot ask HP any technical questions. Kinda a rough way to treat their customers IMHO!
Can anyone tell me if Docker container could be the problem? I would like to get a second opinion since I don't want to have to learn all about Docker containers if I don't have to. If so, couldn't I just blow away the Windows installation that HP did, and reinstall Windows in a regular fashion, or would doing so wreck Window's capability to use the Optane memory cache? Seems like that is a pretty risky thing to do...
As always, much appreciate any thoughts, advice, and/or guidance to a solution... Marc...
Fwiw, AFAIK Docker is a type of cross-platform sandbox which typically runs under a virtual machine or hypervisor. Among other things, it isolates the file system. My memory may be faulty, but IIRC I've seen ref's on the web indicating this tool is used on enterprise-class systems (which the Spectre falls under) on top of Intel's hypervisor.
Boot into windows and verify if Docker is installed /and/ whether it is running. From the windows power shell (this is important, as not all commands works from cmd) do:
docker ps
More discussion and examples here:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57108228/how-to-check-if-docker-is-runni...
Well I gave this a shot, but Windoz Power Shell gave me the middle finger and said the docker command was unknown. So no joy. It appears Windoz 10 gave me several different Powershells to work with, not knowing the difference I tried them all and got the same finger...
See my remarks below. IMO the Docker message is misleading and a dead-end. The installer is encountering something which it is misinterpreting. I suggest taking a closer look at the Optane question. On your system it is nvme1n1 paired with nvme0n1 (and are always seen and accessed as a pair). There are articles and forum posts (Manjaro, Arch, Ubuntu, etc.) about difficulties installing to or booting from a system with this device. Too complex to regurgitate here, especially since there can be multiple causes. But it is important to differentiate between installation vs boot vs using the device for a tertiary purpose (like swap or /var). I did see a passing remark that Fedora and openSUSE were installable, and in fact, openSUSE provides the ipmctl toolset for managing an Optane device. However, that info did not mention co-existing with Windows. All that said . . . An interesting case I found was that linux could not be installed even after Windows was completely removed. It turned out that some of Windows had been cached to the device and consequently the machine was mistakenly still trying to boot Windows. While I found use cases accessing the Optane device like typical additional storage, I could find none where (a) the device is enabled and (b) linux would share the boot partition with Windows. You mention that Windows boot time is <3 sec and transactions are almost instantaneous; this would be consistent with Optane being used for those functions. Intel allows for files/directories/applications to be "pinned" to the Optane; this could have been done by HP to provide the performance you've seen rather than waiting for Optane to "learn" which functions it thinks should be cached (that's the default behavior). One thing you could attempt would be to disengage the Optane device (there are Intel tools on your machine to do this and/or it may also be doable/required in the bios) and then try the openSUSE installation. If the installer sees the storage, you know that this is likely where your problem is. Just keep in mind the above case, because apparently even disengaging it, while allowing installation, it still may not allow openSUSE to boot. If openSUSE still does not install after disengaging Optane, it could be that the module/drivers need to be explicitly called on the installation grub2 command line. Maybe an easy way to test this would be by trying a Fedora install. Finally, if linux can be installed but it is not bootable sharing the Windows boot partition, my understanding is that another separate efi partition can be added for this purpose. I've never tried doing this with openSUSE, but I know it can be done with Fedora.
Maybe first check (if I missed it in all the replies in this thread) whether virtualization is enabled in the bios. If so, disable it and try again.
I found it in the BIOS and turned it off as suggested. Again no joy installing OpenSuSE.
This machine is a discontinued model.
Yeah I know, introduced in late 2020 and I bought this laptop less than a year ago! Gotta love short product lifespans these days!
If it is on your machine and you purchased from HP directly, contact HP Support to determine how it is used and how to remove it before trying anything else. There have been issues with it on Windows 10 Home machines.
However, by chance if you purchased it from a 3rd-party I would inquire there first.
If you have read my previous posting, I tried contacting HP support and found them to be useless!
I was looking to confirm that you had not acquired this machine from e.g. an HP VAR (you might be surprised how many such machines are deployed this way in the U.S.), because, other than machines purchased for enterprise use, it would be shocking for Docker to be on a new consumer machine. Asking HP about it does not require disclosing you are attempting a linux install, it's simply a matter of HP confirming that it is/is not factory installed. In any event, not applicable, see above.
HTH,
It does... Thanks, Marc
--dg 15.3
That's all I got. HTH. --dg 15.3
On 2021-12-31 16:48:10 DennisG wrote:
|On 12/30/21 20:07, Marc Chamberlin wrote: |> On 12/30/21 12:23, DennisG wrote: |> |> Hi Dennis, thanks for jumping in and sharing your thoughts, much |> appreciated. I will intersperse my responses to your |> thoughts/suggestions below - |> |>> On 12/30/21 11:26, Marc Chamberlin wrote: |> |> ... stuff sent to the bit bucket |> |>>> My Google searches has led me to a speculation that HP may have |>>> installed Windows inside a Docker container which is preventing |>>> access to the SSD drive and partition tables, but I know nothing |>>> about Docker containers and whether that is a possibility or not. I |>>> tried to ask HP support that question also, but they were already |>>> refusing to offer any support, so refused to answer that question as |>>> well. Sigh, so I guess I am on my own and cannot ask HP any |>>> technical questions. Kinda a rough way to treat their customers IMHO! |>>> |>>> Can anyone tell me if Docker container could be the problem? I would |>>> like to get a second opinion since I don't want to have to learn all |>>> about Docker containers if I don't have to. If so, couldn't I just |>>> blow away the Windows installation that HP did, and reinstall |>>> Windows in a regular fashion, or would doing so wreck Window's |>>> capability to use the Optane memory cache? Seems like that is a |>>> pretty risky thing to do... |>>> |>>> As always, much appreciate any thoughts, advice, and/or guidance to |>>> a solution... Marc... |>> |>> Fwiw, AFAIK Docker is a type of cross-platform sandbox which |>> typically runs under a virtual machine or hypervisor. Among other |>> things, it isolates the file system. My memory may be faulty, but |>> IIRC I've seen ref's on the web indicating this tool is used on |>> enterprise-class systems (which the Spectre falls under) on top of |>> Intel's hypervisor. |>> |>> Boot into windows and verify if Docker is installed /and/ whether it |>> is running. From the windows power shell (this is important, as not |>> all commands works from cmd) do: |>> |>> docker ps |>> |>> More discussion and examples here: |>> |>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57108228/how-to-check-if-docker-is- |>>running-on-windows |> |> Well I gave this a shot, but Windoz Power Shell gave me the middle |> finger and said the docker command was unknown. So no joy. It appears |> Windoz 10 gave me several different Powershells to work with, not |> knowing the difference I tried them all and got the same finger... | |See my remarks below. IMO the Docker message is misleading and a |dead-end. The installer is encountering something which it is |misinterpreting. | |I suggest taking a closer look at the Optane question. On your system |it is nvme1n1 paired with nvme0n1 (and are always seen and accessed as a |pair). There are articles and forum posts (Manjaro, Arch, Ubuntu, etc.) |about difficulties installing to or booting from a system with this |device. Too complex to regurgitate here, especially since there can be |multiple causes. But it is important to differentiate between |installation vs boot vs using the device for a tertiary purpose (like |swap or /var). I did see a passing remark that Fedora and openSUSE were |installable, and in fact, openSUSE provides the ipmctl toolset for |managing an Optane device. However, that info did not mention |co-existing with Windows. All that said . . . | |An interesting case I found was that linux could not be installed even |after Windows was completely removed. It turned out that some of |Windows had been cached to the device and consequently the machine was |mistakenly still trying to boot Windows. While I found use cases |accessing the Optane device like typical additional storage, I could |find none where (a) the device is enabled and (b) linux would share the |boot partition with Windows. You mention that Windows boot time is <3 |sec and transactions are almost instantaneous; this would be consistent |with Optane being used for those functions. Intel allows for |files/directories/applications to be "pinned" to the Optane; this could |have been done by HP to provide the performance you've seen rather than |waiting for Optane to "learn" which functions it thinks should be cached |(that's the default behavior). | |One thing you could attempt would be to disengage the Optane device |(there are Intel tools on your machine to do this and/or it may also be |doable/required in the bios) and then try the openSUSE installation. If |the installer sees the storage, you know that this is likely where your |problem is. Just keep in mind the above case, because apparently even |disengaging it, while allowing installation, it still may not allow |openSUSE to boot. If openSUSE still does not install after disengaging |Optane, it could be that the module/drivers need to be explicitly called |on the installation grub2 command line. Maybe an easy way to test this |would be by trying a Fedora install. | |Finally, if linux can be installed but it is not bootable sharing the |Windows boot partition, my understanding is that another separate efi |partition can be added for this purpose. I've never tried doing this |with openSUSE, but I know it can be done with Fedora. | |--dg |15.3
It almost sounds like a bug report ought to be opened with Intel. Leslie -- Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
On 12/31/21 17:48, DennisG wrote:
snip
I suggest taking a closer look at the Optane question. On your system it is nvme1n1 paired with nvme0n1 (and are always seen and accessed as a pair). There are articles and forum posts (Manjaro, Arch, Ubuntu, etc.) about difficulties installing to or booting from a system with this device. Too complex to regurgitate here, especially since there can be multiple causes. But it is important to differentiate between installation vs boot vs using the device for a tertiary purpose (like swap or /var). I did see a passing remark that Fedora and openSUSE were installable, and in fact, openSUSE provides the ipmctl toolset for managing an Optane device. However, that info did not mention co-existing with Windows. All that said . . .
An interesting case I found was that linux could not be installed even after Windows was completely removed. It turned out that some of Windows had been cached to the device and consequently the machine was mistakenly still trying to boot Windows. While I found use cases accessing the Optane device like typical additional storage, I could find none where (a) the device is enabled and (b) linux would share the boot partition with Windows. You mention that Windows boot time is <3 sec and transactions are almost instantaneous; this would be consistent with Optane being used for those functions. Intel allows for files/directories/applications to be "pinned" to the Optane; this could have been done by HP to provide the performance you've seen rather than waiting for Optane to "learn" which functions it thinks should be cached (that's the default behavior).
One thing you could attempt would be to disengage the Optane device (there are Intel tools on your machine to do this and/or it may also be doable/required in the bios) and then try the openSUSE installation. If the installer sees the storage, you know that this is likely where your problem is. Just keep in mind the above case, because apparently even disengaging it, while allowing installation, it still may not allow openSUSE to boot. If openSUSE still does not install after disengaging Optane, it could be that the module/drivers need to be explicitly called on the installation grub2 command line. Maybe an easy way to test this would be by trying a Fedora install.
Finally, if linux can be installed but it is not bootable sharing the Windows boot partition, my understanding is that another separate efi partition can be added for this purpose. I've never tried doing this with openSUSE, but I know it can be done with Fedora.
snip
A detail I forgot . . . re removing the Optane device as mentioned previously, just note that doing so once the device has been paired to storage, said storage will not be accessible at all unless and until the module is replaced. --dg 15.3
On 31/12/2021 23.48, DennisG wrote:
On 12/30/21 20:07, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
On 12/30/21 12:23, DennisG wrote:
Hi Dennis, thanks for jumping in and sharing your thoughts, much appreciated. I will intersperse my responses to your thoughts/suggestions below -
On 12/30/21 11:26, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
... stuff sent to the bit bucket
My Google searches has led me to a speculation that HP may have installed Windows inside a Docker container which is preventing access to the SSD drive and partition tables, but I know nothing about Docker containers and whether that is a possibility or not. I tried to ask HP support that question also, but they were already refusing to offer any support, so refused to answer that question as well. Sigh, so I guess I am on my own and cannot ask HP any technical questions. Kinda a rough way to treat their customers IMHO!
Can anyone tell me if Docker container could be the problem? I would like to get a second opinion since I don't want to have to learn all about Docker containers if I don't have to. If so, couldn't I just blow away the Windows installation that HP did, and reinstall Windows in a regular fashion, or would doing so wreck Window's capability to use the Optane memory cache? Seems like that is a pretty risky thing to do...
As always, much appreciate any thoughts, advice, and/or guidance to a solution... Marc...
Fwiw, AFAIK Docker is a type of cross-platform sandbox which typically runs under a virtual machine or hypervisor. Among other things, it isolates the file system. My memory may be faulty, but IIRC I've seen ref's on the web indicating this tool is used on enterprise-class systems (which the Spectre falls under) on top of Intel's hypervisor.
Boot into windows and verify if Docker is installed /and/ whether it is running. From the windows power shell (this is important, as not all commands works from cmd) do:
docker ps
More discussion and examples here:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57108228/how-to-check-if-docker-is-runni...
Well I gave this a shot, but Windoz Power Shell gave me the middle finger and said the docker command was unknown. So no joy. It appears Windoz 10 gave me several different Powershells to work with, not knowing the difference I tried them all and got the same finger...
See my remarks below. IMO the Docker message is misleading and a dead-end. The installer is encountering something which it is misinterpreting.
I suggest taking a closer look at the Optane question. On your system it is nvme1n1 paired with nvme0n1 (and are always seen and accessed as a pair). There are articles and forum posts (Manjaro, Arch, Ubuntu, etc.) about difficulties installing to or booting from a system with this device. Too complex to regurgitate here, especially since there can be multiple causes. But it is important to differentiate between installation vs boot vs using the device for a tertiary purpose (like swap or /var). I did see a passing remark that Fedora and openSUSE were installable, and in fact, openSUSE provides the ipmctl toolset for managing an Optane device. However, that info did not mention co-existing with Windows. All that said . . .
An interesting case I found was that linux could not be installed even after Windows was completely removed. It turned out that some of Windows had been cached to the device and consequently the machine was mistakenly still trying to boot Windows. While I found use cases accessing the Optane device like typical additional storage, I could find none where (a) the device is enabled and (b) linux would share the boot partition with Windows. You mention that Windows boot time is <3 sec and transactions are almost instantaneous; this would be consistent with Optane being used for those functions. Intel allows for files/directories/applications to be "pinned" to the Optane; this could have been done by HP to provide the performance you've seen rather than waiting for Optane to "learn" which functions it thinks should be cached (that's the default behavior).
One thing you could attempt would be to disengage the Optane device (there are Intel tools on your machine to do this and/or it may also be doable/required in the bios) and then try the openSUSE installation. If the installer sees the storage, you know that this is likely where your problem is. Just keep in mind the above case, because apparently even disengaging it, while allowing installation, it still may not allow openSUSE to boot. If openSUSE still does not install after disengaging Optane, it could be that the module/drivers need to be explicitly called on the installation grub2 command line. Maybe an easy way to test this would be by trying a Fedora install.
Finally, if linux can be installed but it is not bootable sharing the Windows boot partition, my understanding is that another separate efi partition can be added for this purpose. I've never tried doing this with openSUSE, but I know it can be done with Fedora.
My guess is that the big SSD there is relatively slow. This machine will be fast only when using the small SSD (Optane) as a very fast cache, which means, only with Windows as installed now (if double booting, I fear Windows will not be able to be as fast as now). Thus my advice is, forget installing Linux on it, and do as he mentioned on another post, pass it to his wife who complained her laptop with Windows was slow. And then, get a "normal" laptop where Linux can be "normally" installed for himself. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Just thought I would report back to this mail list of helpers, in case anyone is curious. After talking with folks on the Factory list, I have submitted a bug report - https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1194355 Neither Leap 15.4 Alpha, nor Tumbleweed were any better at installing on this laptop. Soooo this laptop becomes overkill for my wife, who will be happy with it's speed, and I am again going shopping! Thanks again all for taking the time to help me... Marc On 12/31/21 15:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 31/12/2021 23.48, DennisG wrote:
On 12/30/21 20:07, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
On 12/30/21 12:23, DennisG wrote:
Hi Dennis, thanks for jumping in and sharing your thoughts, much appreciated. I will intersperse my responses to your thoughts/suggestions below -
On 12/30/21 11:26, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
... stuff sent to the bit bucket
My Google searches has led me to a speculation that HP may have installed Windows inside a Docker container which is preventing access to the SSD drive and partition tables, but I know nothing about Docker containers and whether that is a possibility or not. I tried to ask HP support that question also, but they were already refusing to offer any support, so refused to answer that question as well. Sigh, so I guess I am on my own and cannot ask HP any technical questions. Kinda a rough way to treat their customers IMHO!
Can anyone tell me if Docker container could be the problem? I would like to get a second opinion since I don't want to have to learn all about Docker containers if I don't have to. If so, couldn't I just blow away the Windows installation that HP did, and reinstall Windows in a regular fashion, or would doing so wreck Window's capability to use the Optane memory cache? Seems like that is a pretty risky thing to do...
As always, much appreciate any thoughts, advice, and/or guidance to a solution... Marc...
Fwiw, AFAIK Docker is a type of cross-platform sandbox which typically runs under a virtual machine or hypervisor. Among other things, it isolates the file system. My memory may be faulty, but IIRC I've seen ref's on the web indicating this tool is used on enterprise-class systems (which the Spectre falls under) on top of Intel's hypervisor.
Boot into windows and verify if Docker is installed /and/ whether it is running. From the windows power shell (this is important, as not all commands works from cmd) do:
docker ps
More discussion and examples here:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57108228/how-to-check-if-docker-is-runni...
Well I gave this a shot, but Windoz Power Shell gave me the middle finger and said the docker command was unknown. So no joy. It appears Windoz 10 gave me several different Powershells to work with, not knowing the difference I tried them all and got the same finger...
See my remarks below. IMO the Docker message is misleading and a dead-end. The installer is encountering something which it is misinterpreting.
I suggest taking a closer look at the Optane question. On your system it is nvme1n1 paired with nvme0n1 (and are always seen and accessed as a pair). There are articles and forum posts (Manjaro, Arch, Ubuntu, etc.) about difficulties installing to or booting from a system with this device. Too complex to regurgitate here, especially since there can be multiple causes. But it is important to differentiate between installation vs boot vs using the device for a tertiary purpose (like swap or /var). I did see a passing remark that Fedora and openSUSE were installable, and in fact, openSUSE provides the ipmctl toolset for managing an Optane device. However, that info did not mention co-existing with Windows. All that said . . .
An interesting case I found was that linux could not be installed even after Windows was completely removed. It turned out that some of Windows had been cached to the device and consequently the machine was mistakenly still trying to boot Windows. While I found use cases accessing the Optane device like typical additional storage, I could find none where (a) the device is enabled and (b) linux would share the boot partition with Windows. You mention that Windows boot time is <3 sec and transactions are almost instantaneous; this would be consistent with Optane being used for those functions. Intel allows for files/directories/applications to be "pinned" to the Optane; this could have been done by HP to provide the performance you've seen rather than waiting for Optane to "learn" which functions it thinks should be cached (that's the default behavior).
One thing you could attempt would be to disengage the Optane device (there are Intel tools on your machine to do this and/or it may also be doable/required in the bios) and then try the openSUSE installation. If the installer sees the storage, you know that this is likely where your problem is. Just keep in mind the above case, because apparently even disengaging it, while allowing installation, it still may not allow openSUSE to boot. If openSUSE still does not install after disengaging Optane, it could be that the module/drivers need to be explicitly called on the installation grub2 command line. Maybe an easy way to test this would be by trying a Fedora install.
Finally, if linux can be installed but it is not bootable sharing the Windows boot partition, my understanding is that another separate efi partition can be added for this purpose. I've never tried doing this with openSUSE, but I know it can be done with Fedora.
My guess is that the big SSD there is relatively slow. This machine will be fast only when using the small SSD (Optane) as a very fast cache, which means, only with Windows as installed now (if double booting, I fear Windows will not be able to be as fast as now).
Thus my advice is, forget installing Linux on it, and do as he mentioned on another post, pass it to his wife who complained her laptop with Windows was slow. And then, get a "normal" laptop where Linux can be "normally" installed for himself.
-- *"The Truth is out there" - Spooky* *_ _ . . . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . . _ _ . _ _ _ . . . . _ _ . _ . . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . * Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! (/This email is digitally signed and the electronic signature is attached. If you know how, you can use my public key to prove this email indeed came from me and has not been modified in transit. My public key, which can be used for sending encrypted email to me also, can be found at - https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=marc@marcchamberlin.com or just ask me for it and I will send it to you as an attachment. If you don't understand all this geek speak, no worries, just ignore this explanation and ignore the signature key attached to this email (it will look like gibberish if you open it) and/or ask me to explain it further if you like./)
participants (8)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
DennisG -
Felix Miata -
J Leslie Turriff -
jdd＠dodin.org -
Marc Chamberlin -
Patrick Shanahan