Le 02/02/2021 à 12:00, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

If you type "apropos hostname" you get a list that includes that command.

I quote this line, because "apropos" is an often forgotten command, yet very usefull :-) jdd -- http://dodin.org

In data martedì 2 febbraio 2021 12:08:46 CET, Per Jessen ha scritto:

jdd@dodin.org wrote:

...

Le 02/02/2021 à 12:00, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

If you type "apropos hostname" you get a list that includes that command.

I quote this line, because "apropos" is an often forgotten command, yet very usefull :-)

I tend to use "man -k hostname", not sure how different they are.

Well in all cases, thank you to you both and jdd for quoting it, in fact, apropos is a thing that sticks easy to my "bucket brain" with a lot of hole in it.... man is also nice, but I still have problems to read output on CLI, there was once a problem to put it into pdf, but then, I best read - unsustainable I admit it - printed on paper. Maybe I need a 30" screen to fully show an A4.

On 02/02/2021 13.50, David Haller wrote:

Hello,

And BTW2: I have this set up:

==== /etc/init.d/boot.local ==== dbus-uuidgen > /etc/machine-id ====

(just symlinking machine-id to /dev/null sadly makes some apps barf)

Who the F came up with that machine-id thing anyway? deadrat again?

What is that thing for? :-? :-o What uses it? My "/etc/machine-id" file is dated 2012, and does not contain the same as dbus-uuidgen (I guess I know why)

HTH, -dnh, who also likes to read print first and foremost, but hasn't printed himself a page in the last ~15+ years, but had others print about 8 pages for him in the first ~7 of those and hasn't even had others print for him in about 8 years ;)

tsk, tsk. I printed two pages this week. The health system here uses electronic prescriptions, but I need to print the PDF so that the pharmacy can scan the barcode and deliver my medicines :-p -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:07:24 +0100 David Haller wrote:

Hello,

On Tue, 02 Feb 2021, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 02/02/2021 13.50, David Haller wrote:

...

And BTW2: I have this set up:

==== /etc/init.d/boot.local ==== dbus-uuidgen > /etc/machine-id ====

(just symlinking machine-id to /dev/null sadly makes some apps barf)

Who the F came up with that machine-id thing anyway? deadrat again?

What is that thing for? :-? :-o

It's some identifier for your machine. Ah, yes, as I suspected:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/machine-id.html https://wiki.debian.org/MachineId or generally e.g.: https://www.startpage.com/sp/search?query=/etc/machine-id

...

What uses it?

Some apps do use it and barf if it's symlinked to /dev/null (i.e. contains nothing).

...

My "/etc/machine-id" file is dated 2012, and does not contain the same as dbus-uuidgen (I guess I know why)

dbus-uuidgen _generates_ an ID in the required format. Naturally, it'll be (or should be) different! As it seems I need _some_ machine-id (or stuff barfs), I generate a new one on every boot, and as I reboot regularly, that's ok. Otherwise, I'd setup a cron-job to generate one e.g. every hour. Hm. Actually, that's a good idea anyway, fuck the stuff that's using it :) Done:

==== /etc/cron.hourly/gen-machine-id ==== #!/bin/sh dbus-uuidgen > /etc/machine-id ====

*hrhrhr* I'll keep the one in init.d/boot.local, if just for messing with the intention...

[snip]

-dnh

FWIW, Lennart recently posted this on systemd list } I don't suppose you know what requires /etc/machine-id so early in } the boot? PID 1 does. You have to have a valid /etc/machine-id really, everything else is not supported. And it needs to be available when PID 1 initializes. You basically have three options: 1. Make it read-only at boot, initialize persistently on OS install 2. Make it read-only, initialize it to an empty file on OS install, in which case systemd (i.e. PID 1) overmounts it with a random one during early boot. In this mode the system will come up with a new identity on each boot, and thus journal files from previous boots will be considered to belong to different systems. 2b. (Same as 2, but mount / writable during later boot, at which time the machine ID is commited to disk automatically) 3. Make it writable during early boot, and initialize it originally to an empty file. In this case PID 1 will generate a random one and persist it to disk right away. Also see: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/machine-id.html Lennart

On 02/02/2021 16.07, David Haller wrote:

Hello,

On Tue, 02 Feb 2021, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 02/02/2021 13.50, David Haller wrote:

...

And BTW2: I have this set up:

==== /etc/init.d/boot.local ==== dbus-uuidgen > /etc/machine-id ====

(just symlinking machine-id to /dev/null sadly makes some apps barf)

Who the F came up with that machine-id thing anyway? deadrat again?

What is that thing for? :-? :-o

It's some identifier for your machine. Ah, yes, as I suspected:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/machine-id.html https://wiki.debian.org/MachineId or generally e.g.: https://www.startpage.com/sp/search?query=/etc/machine-id

Thanks. Ok. After reading it, I decide to leave that file alone :-) It is one more thing to consider when cloning a machine.

...

...

HTH, -dnh, who also likes to read print first and foremost, but hasn't printed himself a page in the last ~15+ years, but had others print about 8 pages for him in the first ~7 of those and hasn't even had others print for him in about 8 years ;)

tsk, tsk.

I printed two pages this week.

That's really not much, I guess, so I applaud you :)

:-) I printed a calendar on six pages on past month, and I have to print another ;-p

...

The health system here uses electronic prescriptions, but I need to print the PDF so that the pharmacy can scan the barcode and deliver my medicines :-p

What if your printer breaks when your supply has run out? You s'posed die or what? Or your smartphone or PC dies, or whatever you get the barcode with. Etc... And I'd hate to need to get a printer (or smartphone) just for stuff like that, as I do NOT need either.

I have not tried to have the PDF on the smartphone, and then have the pharmacist scan it, but it should work. There are people without a smartphone, or that do not know how to access the PDF (they need a personal certificate), but they can use the paper the doctor gave them on their last visit (which with the pandemic can be ages ago), or the pharmacist types your ID number. But there are other uses to the paper, like handling the paper when visiting another doctor or specialist so that "he knows you" - which nowdays some doctors refuse as well, because of the pandemic. Strange times.

I *HATE* stuff like that without a fallback to "pen and paper" with a vengance! Think more Javier Bardem (you know with what) than Antonio Banderas ;)

:-)

I think we need to put the "deciders" of stuff like that through situations like a broken printer/smartphone/internet etc. pp. To hammer in the _need_ for an analog, pen and paper, fallback. Repeatedly. Probably.

Heh :-)

And don't get me started on US elections without a paper trail using _known_ flawed (just broken and/or astonishingly easy hackable) voting machines (there are none other, anywhere) (and no, I'm not and never was a US resident, but it just boggles my mind what is done in some states). Some states do not even save a (anonymous but traceable[1]) record of the votes. Basically the analogue of a printout of a good old fashioned on-paper-vote... Some states fail even on that. It boggles the mind.

And lo and behold, back here in good-ole-Germany (I've got rants alot about hereabouts too), we vote Sundays and voting closes at 18:00, and on paper and still manage to get most (officially "preliminary", but they usually turn out to be the same) results by 20:00, or sometimes maybe 23:00 for a few random voting-districts, but final offical votes are usually in on Tuesday after the vote on Sunday but usually don't differ in any meaningful way. So, generally, we know the results by Sunday 20:00 and can go to bed ;) Compare that to e.g. the last US presidential election even in states where _only_ machines were used... *barf*

Yeah, similar system in Spain and we are typically equally surprised.

(Yes, I know you're in Spain ;)

:-)

-dnh

[1] I try to say: a legitimate vote for candidate A was cast by a legitimized voter _and that information_ is traceable (not who the voter was). IIRC Pennsylvania, maybe some other state, has failed on this big time in so many ways ...

Yeah, paper trails have some use. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

In data martedì 2 febbraio 2021 15:05:04 CET, Anton Aylward ha scritto:

On 2021-02-02 6:14 a.m., Stakanov wrote:

...

Maybe I need a 30" screen to fully show an A4.

Showing A4

Or a rotated 19" screen.

Actually I can read even small-print "letter"/A4 document using FoxitReader quite adequately on my 17" 1280x1024 without rotation if I scroll,. So i don't see your problem.

OK my endocrinologist has an ultra-wide that can display two pages side by side, one of text, the other graphical, or perhaps data+a form. I can imagine some photo-editing that will make use of an ultra-wide: while GIMP has tear-off menus & sub windows that can use a second, independent screen, other tools like Darktable use attached side panels that aren't 'tear-off', so a wide screen is useful.

I suppose there are some authoring tools, book-level, where you need to keep track of sources, characters, timelines, subplots etc where a widescreen is useful if it can't handle tear-off to a second screen. But that's specific.. Unless you have a specific app in mind, specific demands, I can't see any need for a 30" screen just to read an letter sized, A4 document. After all, how large is that? Two side-by-side full sized letters are what? 18x12, that's a 22" diagonal screen. I'd be more concerned about pixel density.

Well, I've just fired up FoxitReader in 2-up side-by-side of a letter-sized PDF at 65% to get the full sized page both in total view, along with the menu bar and location bar of FoxitReader, and both pages at 10pt are readable on this 19" LG Flatron W1942TQ at 1280x1024. Native mode on this is a little wider.

So I don't see the need for a 30" screen just to view A4 pages.

The problem is the 16:9 format. It was done for people who do not work. Any screen that is not in that format can be very effectively show a A4 size with even only 19" but then the idiots came and did cut the height. Now, pivot screens are expensive and you have to pivot them. But as there are a lot of people that "game" around with 30" you find convenient screens of that size for as little as 250 $. It is getting expensive if you want like diplay port etc. What I still have to find out is what resolution is the best to allow good reading but no strain to you eyesight. BTW, when studying mandarin it gets dramatic for what is size. I think this is also a question of quality of the screen.

In data martedì 2 febbraio 2021 17:29:59 CET, jdd@dodin.org ha scritto:

Le 02/02/2021 à 15:27, Stakanov a écrit :

...

Now, pivot screens are expensive and you have to pivot them.

any screen mounted on wall support can be rotated 90°

jdd

This is actually ... not a stupid idea!

Stakanov composed on 2021-02-02 15:27 (UTC+0100):

...the 16:9 format. It was done for people who do not work. I seriously doubt it. 16:9 is a standard HDTV format, with 1920x1080 being "full" HDTV (1080P). A 1920x1080 16:9 PC screen allows to watch HDTV format video fullscreen without distortion, besides facilitating (HTPC) users to use a TV instead of a dedicated PC display.

For serious PC users, 1920x1200 (16:10) screens are still being made, and what I have been using as my primary display since before 2560x1440, 2560x1600 and 3840x2160 became available. -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

On 02/02/2021 15.27, Stakanov wrote:

In data martedì 2 febbraio 2021 15:05:04 CET, Anton Aylward ha scritto:

...

On 2021-02-02 6:14 a.m., Stakanov wrote:

...

Maybe I need a 30" screen to fully show an A4.

Showing A4

Or a rotated 19" screen.

Actually I can read even small-print "letter"/A4 document using FoxitReader quite adequately on my 17" 1280x1024 without rotation if I scroll,. So i don't see your problem.

OK my endocrinologist has an ultra-wide that can display two pages side by side, one of text, the other graphical, or perhaps data+a form. I can imagine some photo-editing that will make use of an ultra-wide: while GIMP has tear-off menus & sub windows that can use a second, independent screen, other tools like Darktable use attached side panels that aren't 'tear-off', so a wide screen is useful.

I suppose there are some authoring tools, book-level, where you need to keep track of sources, characters, timelines, subplots etc where a widescreen is useful if it can't handle tear-off to a second screen. But that's specific.. Unless you have a specific app in mind, specific demands, I can't see any need for a 30" screen just to read an letter sized, A4 document. After all, how large is that? Two side-by-side full sized letters are what? 18x12, that's a 22" diagonal screen. I'd be more concerned about pixel density.

Well, I've just fired up FoxitReader in 2-up side-by-side of a letter-sized PDF at 65% to get the full sized page both in total view, along with the menu bar and location bar of FoxitReader, and both pages at 10pt are readable on this 19" LG Flatron W1942TQ at 1280x1024. Native mode on this is a little wider.

So I don't see the need for a 30" screen just to view A4 pages.

The problem is the 16:9 format. It was done for people who do not work. Any screen that is not in that format can be very effectively show a A4 size with even only 19" but then the idiots came and did cut the height.

I like the 16:9 format more than the 4/3 of yesteryear :-) One vertical A4 on the left side, and typing something about it on the right side, for example. I can no longer work on a 4/3 screen.

Now, pivot screens are expensive and you have to pivot them. But as there are a lot of people that "game" around with 30" you find convenient screens of that size for as little as 250 $. It is getting expensive if you want like diplay port etc.

Ah, 30" are cheap? That's interesting to know. My current display is 53*30cm, or 61 in diagonal. That's 24" in diagonal.

What I still have to find out is what resolution is the best to allow good reading but no strain to you eyesight.

When I bought mine there was ho choice: 1920*1080.

BTW, when studying mandarin it gets dramatic for what is size. I think this is also a question of quality of the screen.

{chuckle} -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

In data mercoledì 3 febbraio 2021 06:17:37 CET, doug mack ha scritto:

On 2/2/2021 6:14 AM, Stakanov wrote:

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In data martedì 2 febbraio 2021 12:08:46 CET, Per Jessen ha scritto:

...

jdd@dodin.org wrote:

...

Le 02/02/2021 à 12:00, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

If you type "apropos hostname" you get a list that includes that command.

I quote this line, because "apropos" is an often forgotten command, yet very usefull :-)

I tend to use "man -k hostname", not sure how different they are.

Well in all cases, thank you to you both and jdd for quoting it, in fact, apropos is a thing that sticks easy to my "bucket brain" with a lot of hole in it....

man is also nice, but I still have problems to read output on CLI, there was once a problem to put it into pdf, but then, I best read - unsustainable I admit it - printed on paper. Maybe I need a 30" screen to fully show an A4.

Don't know what you're using now, but I have two setups, one with a 24" screen, one with a 27". I notice

a real improvement going to the 27".

--doug At what resolution? Count that I was not joking with mandarin. Imagine you need to read the following text: 在布鲁塞尔，您有优质的威化饼。 or compare to same size letters: Zài bùlǔsài'ěr, nín yǒu yōuzhì de wēi huà bǐng. It is obvious that the screen quality counts. An educated eye does not need to see every stroke but my eyes are a) not educated well and b) aging. With 20 years that would not have been an argument.

So I am currently with 24" and not very happy. I am also not decided if to look at a very high native resolution or to seek a monitor with a lower but supported resolution. I fear a bit the "pixel" effect. I also use Kaffeine to watch movies on the screen. So that is why I am a bit on: when in doubt take it oversize... Just not wanting to play "tetris" every day because of wrong choices. That size monitor here is available but practically only by ordering on the web. So no way to see the model "life" before. Going probably for HDMI and display port.

On 02/02/2021 12.08, Per Jessen wrote:

jdd@dodin.org wrote:

...

Le 02/02/2021 à 12:00, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

If you type "apropos hostname" you get a list that includes that command.

I quote this line, because "apropos" is an often forgotten command, yet very usefull :-)

I tend to use "man -k hostname", not sure how different they are.

Same thing, just easier to remember :-) man -k [apropos options] regexp ... -k, --apropos Equivalent to apropos. Search the short manual page descriptions for keywords and display any matches. See apropos(1) for details. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 12:08:46 +0100 Per Jessen wrote:

jdd@dodin.org wrote:

...

Le 02/02/2021 à 12:00, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

If you type "apropos hostname" you get a list that includes that command.

$ apropos hostname hostname: nothing appropriate.

...

I quote this line, because "apropos" is an often forgotten command, yet very usefull :-)

I tend to use "man -k hostname", not sure how different they are.

$ man -k hostname hostname: nothing appropriate. $ hostname[TAB] hostname hostnamectl And hostnamectl works as expected ??!!

On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 18:53:52 +0100 Per Jessen wrote:

Dave Howorth wrote:

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On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 12:08:46 +0100 Per Jessen wrote:

...

I tend to use "man -k hostname", not sure how different they are.

$ man -k hostname hostname: nothing appropriate.

Dave, something is wrong with your man pages or some index of the same -

Dunno, google: man whatever is how I access man pages :) But FWIW: $ man hostname Man: find all matching manual pages (set MAN_POSIXLY_CORRECT to avoid this) * hostname (1) hostname (5) hostname (7) Man: What manual page do you want? Man: so the man pages are there. I expect there's some kind of file indexing program behind apropos and man -k and I kill off all such tools as soon as I discover them on principle :) Blood-sucking parasites, hrmpph! :)

per@office68:~/gg> man -k hostname freehostent (3) - get network hostnames and addresses geoiplookup (1) - look up country using IP Address or hostname geoiplookup6 (1) - look up country using IP Address or hostname gethostname (2) - get/set hostname gethostname (3p) - get name of current host getipnodebyaddr (3) - get network hostnames and addresses getipnodebyname (3) - get network hostnames and addresses hostname (1) - show or set the system's host name hostname (5) - Local hostname configuration file hostname (7) - hostname resolution description hostnamectl (1) - Control the system hostname hosts (5) - static table lookup for hostnames nmtui-hostname (1) - Text User Interface for controlling NetworkManager sethostname (2) - get/set hostname systemd-hostnamed (8) - Host name bus mechanism systemd-hostnamed.service (8) - Host name bus mechanism

On 02/02/2021 18.21, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 12:08:46 +0100 Per Jessen wrote:

...

jdd@dodin.org wrote:

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Le 02/02/2021 à 12:00, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

If you type "apropos hostname" you get a list that includes that command.

$ apropos hostname hostname: nothing appropriate.

Something is broken on your system. There is a kind of database of man pages but I don't know how it works, I've never bothered. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)