Adrian Schroeter wrote:

...

I would like to OpenSUSE to consider the possiblity of use jigdo to download releases with a lot of save for servers and clients. I wrote a small comment in opensuse wiki I repeat here:

jigdo is not really usefull for us, I believe. Because all rpm will get rebuilded between the betas, so it won't have an effect.

However, we do plan to offer also delta-isos additionally with beta 2, so only the difference needs to get downloaded.

Does this mean that I should have my original iso, then I can patch it using the Delta ISO then I get the new ISO? If yes, then how do I do this patching process? -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Adrian Schroeter wrote:

...

Does this mean that I should have my original iso, then I can patch it using the Delta ISO then I get the new ISO? If yes, then how do I do this patching process?

I do not know either, but we will provide documentation ;)

Oh, so this is only a concept? A hypothetical way of doing things? If yes, why not use this jigdo, which seems to be an established way of doing things? Is there any exact problem? -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Adrian Schroeter wrote:

...

...

Does this mean that I should have my original iso, then I can patch it using the Delta ISO then I get the new ISO? If yes, then how do I do this patching process? I do not know either, but we will provide documentation ;) Oh, so this is only a concept? A hypothetical way of doing things?

No. See the package deltarpm

Then why did Adrian say "I do not know either"? -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Rasmus Plewe wrote:

...

...

...

...

...

If yes, then how do I do this patching process? I do not know either, but we will provide documentation ;) Oh, so this is only a concept? A hypothetical way of doing things? No. See the package deltarpm Then why did Adrian say "I do not know either"? Adrian didn't say: "Suse does not know either".

A totally valid counter-statement! :) I simply assumed that all SuSE people know everything about SuSE. Not entirely justified, perhaps. -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

On Thursday 11 August 2005 14:03, Rasmus Plewe wrote:

On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 05:21:53PM +0530, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...

Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

...

Adrian Schroeter wrote:

...

...

If yes, then how do I do this patching process?

I do not know either, but we will provide documentation ;)

Oh, so this is only a concept? A hypothetical way of doing things?

No. See the package deltarpm

Then why did Adrian say "I do not know either"?

Adrian didn't say: "Suse does not know either". My guess: He simply doesn't/didn't know the details personally. And why would he need to, at that point?

yes, Michael knows for sure better and he will also describe it. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SuSE AG, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de

El Jueves, 11 de Agosto de 2005 12:12, Adrian Schroeter escribió:

On Thursday 11 August 2005 11:26, Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

...

Hello,

I would like to OpenSUSE to consider the possiblity of use jigdo to download   releases with a lot of save for servers and clients. I wrote a small comment in opensuse wiki I repeat here:

jigdo is not really usefull for us, I believe. Because all rpm will get rebuilded between the betas, so it won't have an effect.

Yes, but what about release also DVDs, with most of CD also in DVD?. You can easily transform DVD->'CD set' or 'CD set' -> DVD. Even in definitive release time, you can release 'CD set', 'single layer DVD set ' and double layer DVD with minimal effort, all based in a common ftp tree with needed packages. Mirror site masters will be happy, I think.

However, we do plan to offer also delta-isos additionally with beta 2, so only the difference needs to get downloaded.

It also looks nice :) Guillermo -- Guillermo Ballester Valor gbv@oxixares.com Ogijares, Granada SPAIN Linux user #117181. See http://counter.li.org/ Public GPG KEY http://www.oxixares.com/~gbv/pubgpg.html

On Thursday 11 August 2005 12:25, Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

El Jueves, 11 de Agosto de 2005 12:12, Adrian Schroeter escribió:

...

On Thursday 11 August 2005 11:26, Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

...

Hello,

I would like to OpenSUSE to consider the possiblity of use jigdo to download   releases with a lot of save for servers and clients. I wrote a small comment in opensuse wiki I repeat here:

jigdo is not really usefull for us, I believe. Because all rpm will get rebuilded between the betas, so it won't have an effect.

Yes, but what about release also DVDs, with most of CD also in DVD?. You can easily transform DVD->'CD set' or 'CD set' -> DVD.

Even in definitive release time, you can release 'CD set', 'single layer DVD set ' and double layer DVD with minimal effort, all based in a common ftp tree with needed packages. Mirror site masters will be happy, I think.

hm, we do not plan to release DVDs for now. Wouldn't it make sense to have some script which fetches only the needed rpms from the ftp tree and builds $MEDIA afterwards ? -- Adrian Schroeter SuSE AG, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de

El Jueves, 11 de Agosto de 2005 12:49, Adrian Schroeter escribió:

On Thursday 11 August 2005 12:25, Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

...

El Jueves, 11 de Agosto de 2005 12:12, Adrian Schroeter escribió:

...

On Thursday 11 August 2005 11:26, Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

...

Hello,

I would like to OpenSUSE to consider the possiblity of use jigdo to download   releases with a lot of save for servers and clients. I wrote a small comment in opensuse wiki I repeat here:

jigdo is not really usefull for us, I believe. Because all rpm will get rebuilded between the betas, so it won't have an effect.

Yes, but what about release also DVDs, with most of CD also in DVD?. You can easily transform DVD->'CD set' or 'CD set' -> DVD.

Even in definitive release time, you can release 'CD set', 'single layer DVD set ' and double layer DVD with minimal effort, all based in a common ftp tree with needed packages. Mirror site masters will be happy, I think.

hm, we do not plan to release DVDs for now. Wouldn't it make sense to have some script which fetches only the needed rpms from the ftp tree and builds $MEDIA afterwards ?

This is one of things jigdo does. It is well tested, and make cheksums and md5 control, both of individual packages and whole iso. Do we need reinvent the wheel ? ;) Guillermo -- Guillermo Ballester Valor gbv@oxixares.com Ogijares, Granada SPAIN Linux user #117181. See http://counter.li.org/ Public GPG KEY http://www.oxixares.com/~gbv/pubgpg.html

El Jueves, 11 de Agosto de 2005 13:38, Andreas Jaeger escribió:

Guillermo Ballester Valor writes:

...

...

hm, we do not plan to release DVDs for now. Wouldn't it make sense to have some script which fetches only the needed rpms from the ftp tree and builds $MEDIA afterwards ?

This is one of things jigdo does. It is well tested, and make cheksums and md5 control, both of individual packages and whole iso. Do we need reinvent the wheel ? ;)

So, how can we integrate this best? Are you an expert on this and could help us setting this up?

I'm not an expert, but I built jigdo RPMS for SuSE 9.3. You can see them here ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/suser-gbv/rpms/SuSE_9.3 I also generate the jigdo files needed to remaster the shipped in box double layer SuSE 9.3 DVD into 2 fully fuctional single layered DVD. To achieve this I had to get the two gold single layered DVD used by beta testers and the big boxed one. You can read it in detail in the wiki page mentioned at the begining of this thread. The key to use jigdo in future releases is that SuSE must generate a fully functional media, as example a DVD, then generate their jigdo files and release ONLY these files, NOT the big DVD iso. Of course, we assume that the jigdo user has the package available (in other purchased media or in the ftp tree). Guillermo -- Guillermo Ballester Valor gbv@oxixares.com Ogijares, Granada SPAIN Linux user #117181. See http://counter.li.org/ Public GPG KEY http://www.oxixares.com/~gbv/pubgpg.html

El Jueves, 11 de Agosto de 2005 14:18, Shriramana Sharma escribió:

Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

...

I'm not an expert, but I built jigdo RPMS for SuSE 9.3. You can see them here ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/suser-gbv/rpms/SuSE_9.3 I also generate the jigdo files needed to remaster the shipped in box double layer SuSE 9.3 DVD into 2 fully fuctional single layered DVD.

Two fully functional single-layered DVDs (4.3 GB?) containing exactly what? One 32-bit packages and the other 64-bit packages? ALL packages?

ALL packages. On instalation process, after install packages in DVD 1, then it makes the 'first boot' and finally install all the needed packages in DVD 2. Both DVDs have 32-bit and 64-bit binary packages Guillermo -- Guillermo Ballester Valor gbv@oxixares.com Ogijares, Granada SPAIN Linux user #117181. See http://counter.li.org/ Public GPG KEY http://www.oxixares.com/~gbv/pubgpg.html

El Jueves, 11 de Agosto de 2005 14:59, Shriramana Sharma escribió:

Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

...

ALL packages. On instalation process, after install packages in DVD 1, then it makes the 'first boot' and finally install all the needed packages in DVD 2.

Both DVDs have 32-bit and 64-bit binary packages

Um, I would have thought that a better idea would have been to make one DVD for 32 bit machines only (with ALL packages) and another for 64 bit machines only (with ALL packages).

Now what was the amount of the data on each DVD?

This is a part of an 'la' listing: -rw-r--r-- 1 gbv users 4610719744 2005-03-24 16:30 SUSE-9.3-DVDr5-1.iso -rw-r--r-- 1 gbv users 3919403008 2005-03-24 16:49 SUSE-9.3-DVDr5-2.iso Guillermo -- Guillermo Ballester Valor gbv@oxixares.com Ogijares, Granada SPAIN Linux user #117181. See http://counter.li.org/ Public GPG KEY http://www.oxixares.com/~gbv/pubgpg.html

Christian Boltz wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 11. August 2005 14:59 schrieb Shriramana Sharma:

...

Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

...

ALL packages. On instalation process, after install packages in DVD 1, then it makes the 'first boot' and finally install all the needed packages in DVD 2.

Both DVDs have 32-bit and 64-bit binary packages Um, I would have thought that a better idea would have been to make one DVD for 32 bit machines only (with ALL packages) and another for 64 bit machines only (with ALL packages).

This would be a good idea - but you forget the noarch packages (1.4 GB) in your calculation. IIRC the two DVDs were nearly full - so a duplication of noarch was impossible ;-)

Can you please explain what is meant by "noarch" package and why it is 1.4 GB? And how it is related to my question? (Pardon my ignorance...) -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Hello, Am Freitag, 12. August 2005 04:25 schrieb Shriramana Sharma:

Christian Boltz wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, 11. August 2005 14:59 schrieb Shriramana Sharma:

...

Guillermo Ballester Valor wrote:

...

ALL packages. On instalation process, after install packages in DVD 1, then it makes the 'first boot' and finally install all the needed packages in DVD 2.

Both DVDs have 32-bit and 64-bit binary packages

Um, I would have thought that a better idea would have been to make one DVD for 32 bit machines only (with ALL packages) and another for 64 bit machines only (with ALL packages).

This would be a good idea - but you forget the noarch packages (1.4 GB) in your calculation. IIRC the two DVDs were nearly full - so a duplication of noarch was impossible ;-)

Can you please explain what is meant by "noarch" package and why it is 1.4 GB? And how it is related to my question? (Pardon my ignorance...)

As Anders already wrote, "noarch" means packages that are not specific to a cpu architecture (i586, i686, x86_64). Examples for noarch packages are scripts, manuals and language files - they can be used on (or: are needed for) every cpu architecture. Why 1.4 GB? Just have a look at the SuSE 9.3 DVD ;-) cb@cboltz:/media/SU930_001> du -hs suse/* 3.5G suse/i586 15M suse/i686 1.4G suse/noarch <--- here it is 27M suse/setup 2.9G suse/x86_64 Regards, Christian Boltz -- 2.-5.9.2005: Weinfest in Insheim Bei der Landjugend: Liquid, AH-Band und Deafen Goblins Mehr Infos: www.Landjugend-Insheim.de

On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 08:56:17AM +0530, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

So basically there are three possibilities:

install on i586 => noarch + i586 install on i686 => noarch + i586 + i686 install on x86_64 => noarch + x86_64

Would that be about right?

No: install on x86_64 => noarch + x86_64 + packages from i586 that have no x86_64 counterpart. Robert -- Robert Schiele Tel.: +49-621-181-2214 Dipl.-Wirtsch.informatiker mailto:rschiele@uni-mannheim.de

On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 12:49:29PM +0200, Adrian Schroeter wrote:

hm, we do not plan to release DVDs for now. Wouldn't it make sense to have some script which fetches only the needed rpms from the ftp tree and builds $MEDIA afterwards ?

For Beta this would be fine, because users wil already have an OS on wich that script will run. Once you go live, there will be users who want to install it on their Windows machine and will need another program to make those ISO's. I personaly just hope that there will be a Network instalation CD. Small initial download, download only what you need, works on any bootable CD/DVD. A 1 CD based openSUSE would also be nice. Easy to distribute and give to friends. :-) houghi -- Love means having to say you're sorry every five minutes.

houghi wrote:

I personaly just hope that there will be a Network instalation CD. Small initial download, download only what you need, works on any bootable CD/DVD.

OK, but only viable when connecting to the network doesn't need much configuration. I still haven't got my ADSL USB modem to work. (Gotta read the accessrunner documentation.) And of course, with good download speeds and big or no download limits. (Here in India, home users still can't afford having a both high-speed line with unlimited downloads. The market is only now starting to grow.)

A 1 CD based openSUSE would also be nice. Easy to distribute and give to friends. :-)

I strongly support this. :) I also vote that it has KDE 'cause KDE rocks! (Of course, if stuffing both KDE and GNOME on a single CD would be possible, perhaps with some of the less vital packages thrown out, then that would be the appropriate way to do things.) I'm not sure about this, but I think that even with SuSE Pro 9.3, the first CD of the 5 is sufficient for most basic installs. (Not sure if that will include the office suite, but am conjecturing, based on Novell having given the 1 CD download time etc by the side of the 5 CD download time and DVD download time.) -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 05:26:57PM +0530, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

houghi wrote:

...

I personaly just hope that there will be a Network instalation CD. Small initial download, download only what you need, works on any bootable CD/DVD.

OK, but only viable when connecting to the network doesn't need much configuration. I still haven't got my ADSL USB modem to work. (Gotta read the accessrunner documentation.) And of course, with good download speeds and big or no download limits. (Here in India, home users still can't afford having a both high-speed line with unlimited downloads. The market is only now starting to grow.)

Indeed. It should also not be the only way of instalation. It is there now and perhaps it needs some tweaking to get other modems running as well. If the choice is downloading several CD's or FTP instalation, with a FTP instalation you would only need to download what you want installed, not the rest.

...

A 1 CD based openSUSE would also be nice. Easy to distribute and give to friends. :-)

I strongly support this. :)

I also vote that it has KDE 'cause KDE rocks! (Of course, if stuffing both KDE and GNOME on a single CD would be possible, perhaps with some of the less vital packages thrown out, then that would be the appropriate way to do things.)

I'm not sure about this, but I think that even with SuSE Pro 9.3, the first CD of the 5 is sufficient for most basic installs. (Not sure if that will include the office suite, but am conjecturing, based on Novell having given the 1 CD download time etc by the side of the 5 CD download time and DVD download time.)

A great compromise would be that you have the needed stuf on CD1. At least enough to have a running system. Wuth that you should be able to use it as a workstation. If you then want more, you either do an FTP instalation, or download the rest of the CD's, if you like. Even better would be if that CD was able to work live as well (e.g. Knoppix). That way one CD can be used to test and if you like it to install. As almost any other distro is able to get a 1 CD version out, I am sure SUSE is able to do the same. houghi -- Hackers do it with all sorts of characters.

Shriramana Sharma writes:

houghi wrote:

...

Even better would be if that CD was able to work live as well (e.g. Knoppix). That way one CD can be used to test and if you like it to install.

I'm not sure if an Install CD can double as a Live CD. What do the gurus have to say about this?

We did this once - by duplication ;-) - on a DVD... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Shriramana Sharma writes:

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

...

...

Even better would be if that CD was able to work live as well (e.g. Knoppix). That way one CD can be used to test and if you like it to install. I'm not sure if an Install CD can double as a Live CD. What do the gurus have to say about this? We did this once - by duplication ;-) - on a DVD...

Bitte erklären Sie! [en: "Please explain, Sir".]

A DVD with a boot loader where you could choose at boot time whether you want the Install or the Live Image, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

...

...

I'm not sure if an Install CD can double as a Live CD. What do the gurus have to say about this? We did this once - by duplication ;-) - on a DVD... Bitte erklären Sie! [en: "Please explain, Sir".] A DVD with a boot loader where you could choose at boot time whether you want the Install or the Live Image,

Ah, so when was this? I mean, what version of SuSE? And if it chose to boot a live image, was there a different session or something on the DVD which contained a valid file system etc etc? -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

houghi writes:

[...] As almost any other distro is able to get a 1 CD version out, I am sure SUSE is able to do the same.

We could - provide one iso with English only and just a minimal desktop. Please keep in mind that we've been doing SUSE Linux Retail boxes for some time and for that purpose those are not needed. Opening up means some changes for all of us - and I personally do not see the real benefit of such a one CD. Our buildsystem is targeted with the many languages (the Mini ISO already supports more than 10 languages) and I'm not sure whether this can be done in an easy way for us at this point of time. If you all really prefer this over the 4 CDs, then convince us why it's better and what exactly we should put out. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Ken Schneider wrote:

We have to keep in mind that not everyone's test machine will have a DVD, although they are cheap enough,

DVD drives are not exactly "cheap" here in India, though they aren't costly either. I speak of both readers and writers.

and the 4 CD format would be better for some.

4 CD format? I only saw a 5 CD format with SuSE 9.3?

The first CD could be like the current (9.3) CD that could be used for an FTP install as well. That way they only need download the first CD.

Similar to the idea I proposed in this same thread but different mail.

And you will have people the will want a single DVD for install. Hard to please every one.

True, but one CD version and one DVD version (and maybe a Live DVD - I'm not a big fan of that idea) should be sufficient for the majority. -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Ken Schneider wrote:

...

4 CD format? I only saw a 5 CD format with SuSE 9.3?

We are talking opensuse here which is a 4 CD set.

So what's missing to account for the one CD less? Is it the OOo, Java etc which you can't bundle with an open system? Like Debian? But Fedora is the same principle and it ships with OOo and Java, IIRC... -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

Debian? But Fedora is the same principle and it ships with OOo and Java, IIRC...

Fedora is building everything with gcj which we have not done yet,

What's gcj and is there a problem with us doing it also? To ensure a smooth transition for *end users* (like me) from SuSE 9.3 to 10, it would be preferable not to make the user manually download important (in the sense of very commonly used) stuff like OOo and Java. -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Shriramana Sharma writes:

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

...

Debian? But Fedora is the same principle and it ships with OOo and Java, IIRC... Fedora is building everything with gcj which we have not done yet,

What's gcj and is there a problem with us doing it also?

GNU Java compiler. The compiler is not as mature as the SUN one but is really getting there.

To ensure a smooth transition for *end users* (like me) from SuSE 9.3 to 10, it would be preferable not to make the user manually download important (in the sense of very commonly used) stuff like OOo and Java.

I agree and we're working on that, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

...

...

Debian? But Fedora is the same principle and it ships with OOo and Java, IIRC... Fedora is building everything with gcj which we have not done yet, What's gcj and is there a problem with us doing it also? GNU Java compiler. The compiler is not as mature as the SUN one but is really getting there.

Okay, that's said for Java. But why can't OOo be included? Isn't it released under GPL, free for anyone to recompile/include in their packages? -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Shriramana Sharma writes:

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

...

...

...

Debian? But Fedora is the same principle and it ships with OOo and Java, IIRC... Fedora is building everything with gcj which we have not done yet, What's gcj and is there a problem with us doing it also? GNU Java compiler. The compiler is not as mature as the SUN one but is really getting there.

Okay, that's said for Java. But why can't OOo be included? Isn't it released under GPL, free for anyone to recompile/include in their packages?

OOo can be included - the problem is that OOo needs Java... It does not make sense to install a package with a broken dependency, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

El Viernes, 12 de Agosto de 2005 14:36, Martin Mewes escribió:

Hello,

Andreas Jaeger wrote :

...

Shriramana Sharma writes:

...

Okay, that's said for Java. But why can't OOo be included? Isn't it released under GPL, free for anyone to recompile/include in their packages?

OOo can be included - the problem is that OOo needs Java... It does not make sense to install a package with a broken dependency,

Hmm, long time ago since I installed OOo, but to my knowledge it is possible to install OOo withoout Java. OOo may lack certain features without Java, but that's all.

Am I wrong?

That's true for OOo 1.x, but I think not for 2.x. -- Víctor Fernández Martínez Gabinete de prensa de PoLinux [www.polinux.upv.es]. Usuario de Linux registrado #312284 en http://counter.li.org.

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

...

...

...

...

Debian? But Fedora is the same principle and it ships with OOo and Java, IIRC... Fedora is building everything with gcj which we have not done yet, What's gcj and is there a problem with us doing it also? GNU Java compiler. The compiler is not as mature as the SUN one but is really getting there. Okay, that's said for Java. But why can't OOo be included? Isn't it released under GPL, free for anyone to recompile/include in their packages?

OOo can be included - the problem is that OOo needs Java... It does not make sense to install a package with a broken dependency,

I concur with the others when they say they've installed OOo without Java. (At least, I've done it on Win32.) So: 1. Does OOo depend unavoidably on Java? 2. When gcj is up and satisfactorily running we'll have OOo and Java shipped? 3. Are OOo and Java the only two stumbling points? 4. If Fedora is using Java right now, why can't we? -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org

Ken Schneider writes:

We have to keep in mind that not everyone's test machine will have a DVD, although they are cheap enough, and the 4 CD format would be better for some. The first CD could be like the current (9.3) CD that could be used for an FTP install as well. That way they only need download the

That's the case with 10.0 as well.

first CD. And you will have people the will want a single DVD for install. Hard to please every one.

Exactly ;-) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

It's nice to have the CD/DVD boxed set. I would like to have the option of the CD/DVD's, and the installation via the internet. For example, when there are security and other updates to the CD/DVD's, and I also want to do a fresh installation, I have to install from CD/DVD, then update the fresh install, using YaST or fou4s. It would be much better to be able to do a new install via the net, without having to re-install packages because of security updates. Is it ( or would it) be possible for the system backup facility in Yast, to do a new installation of my custom SuSE installation directly from the net, according to the snapshot of the system taken with the system backup facility in YaST, without having to install from CD/DVD, then update that installtion from the net? Regards - Keith Roberts

If you all really prefer this over the 4 CDs, then convince us why it's better and what exactly we should put out.

Andreas

On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 06:33:15PM +0530, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

2. some intelligent packaging can probably include the vital packages (for a minimal workstation) on the first CD, and the others on the other. This way, those who are satisfied with the minimal workstation (or perhaps those who would convert others to SuSE using a "see it's just a single CD for basic features" argument) will also benefit, and those building the images do not have the extra job of creating a separate different kind of download version.

That is ineed what I was getting at. The first CD has all that you need to run a desktop. If you want nmore, use the other CD's. Now if this CD would be able to work as a live CD (not a live DVD) that would be an added bonus to show SUSE to others. It would require some rearanging of the RPM's over the different CD's. During instalation you could then perhaps choose from singe CD instalation, standard instalation, full instalation, KDE instalation, Gnome Instalation and whatever. This would benefit people who are not able to use the FTP instalation and have no access to high bandwith. For SUSE such a CD would be very easy to add to magazines if the marketing department would like to do so. The advatage to the Marketing department is that they could add these to magazines at a much lower cost, without asking anybody to change anything, or at least not change anything major. They even could do a marketresearch on what people want on their PC with priorities. That way they do someting for you. ;-) Also, what are the disadvantages of NOT doing it that way? You do not need an extra CD. What you do need to do is rethink what should go on wich CD and especially what should go on the first. houghi -- "The algorithm to do that is extremely nasty. You might want to mug someone with it." -- M. Devine, Computer Science 340

On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 07:54:19PM +0530, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

Hmm. I somehow suspect this is going to be a bit difficult. With a DVD you always have sufficient amount of space to have both a live version and an install version on the same disc. With a CD, I suspect it will have to be either an installer or a live, but not both on the same medium. The gurus should speak here.

No idea how much the live part would take. Please guru's, would this be feasable? Perhaps for 10.1? Or later?

Of course, if it were a barebones inventory of packages, then one CD would suffice, but hey, what value would that have as a demonstration live CD?

You can use it as a try out and if you like it, use it to install without the need of downloading something else, wich might have a different version of whatever on it. I have had live evals that did not work where the official one did. I can imagine that it could be the other way around as well.

Marketing department? Does openSUSE have a marketing department? I suspect not! Magazines with an ounce of sense in them should of their own initiative distribute openSUSE, IMHO.

I asume that some of the knowledge of openSUSe will flow back to SUSE. Then the SUSE marketing could use that to promote SUSE if SUSE were to have a single CD instalation as well.

...

They even could do a marketresearch on what people want on their PC with priorities. That way they do someting for you. ;-)

I don't understand. What are you driving at?

I mean two things. One is that Marketing could investigate what people would want. They have the knowledge (I hope) on how to do such a research and it will also give them valuable data to give to other departments on what the user wants and not just what the geeks and gurus want. The other thing is a bit tongue in cheeck in that most of the time Marketing looks mainly at the sales department and then tell production (the programmers in this case) what to do. If you ask them, they need to listen to what you want instead of telling you what to do. And as an afterthought, this is _open_SUSE, so why not have the experience from people of non-techical knowledge help out where they can? houghi -- Without ice cream life and fame are meaningless.