On 17 July 2017 at 02:56, L A Walsh firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Richard Brown wrote:
Top-posting because I want to address a whole range of points in one mail.
On the potential shutdown of this whole list. I realise that possibility is a heavy one. I do not make it lightly, I consider it a last resort, and I do so well aware of the potential negative consequences of making it.
If you are tired of "running" this list, let me know and I'll take it over, as well as creating a opensuse-systemd discussion group.
I am not tired of being responsible for this Project, and when that day comes I will do my best to hand over the reigns to someone who has demonstrated an ability to act in good faith while contributing to the community. That will not be you.
On the topic of a new mailinglist. I am not opposed to the idea, but every openSUSE mailinglist should only exist to facilitate communication and collaboration on something which is actively being worked on in the Project. Right now, no one is working on a systemd alternative for openSUSE. So frankly, the idea of a separate list is pointless.
My suggestion is to create a separate venue for all systemd related discussion. That provides a neutral way to recover this list for more general support purposes (other than kernel, factory or systemd topics).
There is already a place to discuss systemd design, such as its flexibility and configurability. It is https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
At this time there is no point creating an openSUSE equivalent to this list, as our maintainers do not need a new list to read when that upstream one works perfectly fine for their current work. That always could change if more contributors got involved, as is the case with the kernel, but it's been 6 years now so I think the situation is unlikely.
Right now, the several hundred contributors to openSUSE all support only systemd.
And they all have expressed their choice to do so? And others weren't disallowed contributing due to random problems?
Every single contributor has the right to contribute what they want, how they want. If someone woke up tomorrow and somehow resurrected SysV init support, patched all the upstream projects that no longer support SysV init, and made sure they all worked to our standard level of quality, then I'm sure we'd take those contributions, somehow.
I do not buy the 'random problems' nonsense - you could always make a new OBS account if your old one is broken. They are 46891 user accounts on OBS and you are the _only_ person in 12 years to report a broken account. Given they're so easy, and free, to create I think it would be trivial for you to join the 46890 others.
But the fact is, the people involved in hating on systemd and discuessing it endlessly have done nothing to correct that.
Some were not allowed to. More to the point -- it wasn't that something "needed to be done" to continue to provide the [then] existing alternative to sysd. I spoke up against removal and gutting of LSB utils like chkconfig to redirect things to sysd, followed by wholesale conversion and removal of scripts from /etc/init.d.
Mostly a result of decisions made by the various upstreams. Maintaining old cruft, which sysVinit now is, requires people to do it. When we have no one to do it, there is nothing to discuss. Ergo, no reason to post a systemd related discussion on this list.
And even if there was reason to discuss systemd, something like that isn't a user support topic, so there is no reason to discuss it on this list.
This mailinglist is not email@example.com. We will not make such a list to accommodate you. Please keep your conversations relevant to this list, and take your concerns regarding systemd to somewhere more appropriate, such as https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
There will not be an appropriate openSUSE venue for such discussions until contributors actual contribute towards an alternative. I am open to that possibility but the contributions must come first. We've had 6 years of moaning, misusing openSUSE mailinglists for invalid purposes, and no code submissions. You are not welcome to continue in that manner.