On 17 July 2017 at 05:20, David Haller email@example.com wrote:
this is explicitly at you as Chair of the OS Board!
On Sun, 16 Jul 2017, Richard Brown wrote: [..]
But the fact is, the people involved in hating on systemd and discuessing it endlessly have done nothing to correct that. The narrative seems to be to expect the hundreds of contributors to the openSUSE Project to do more work or different work.
You are deluding yourself.
It'd concern a metric buttload of packages that'd need to be adapted back to accepting a different init, login, and whatnot.
Some people tried to keep systemd out, apprehensive of feature-creep (which actually did follow) and/or general LP behaviour, but as systemd has taken over so many _basic_ and crucial points and functions, growing like a cancer, volunteers (e.g. me) without any actual say should be able to change that? When even the mere thought of a rethink is being disregarded? And in any discussion, the fanbois start wailing like [elided], and those in power to e.g. start a new vote just disregard the mere idea.
New facts about systemd are just thoroughly ignored without any discussion. Or beat down.
Like a bug appeared in systemd that demonstrates the _basic_ flaws of systemd and its authors attitudes, systemd fanbois get pouty and start flaming like [elided]...
So keep dreaming of those disappointed and probably embittered people "against systemd" doing the job that all, but esp. you and the maintainers of the oS packages should be doing, i.e. keeping the _choice_ for a different init alive. The opposite is happening. Maintainers quit.
And those not wanting systemd can rant and plead and do as much as they like, unless someone with a say in the matter _does_ things about rethinking/revoting the question of using systemd exclusively(!).
So you're using a fake argument. There is no choice in openSUSE anymore about init and lots more.
Doing something would be forking a complete new Distro, and then there'd be easier distros to start from, e.g. devuan/gentoo/funtoo ...
And, as I predicted that systemd will spread like cancer quite a bit before the choice for using systemd in oS was made, I predict this choice will bite you _BAD_! This will hurt not only openSUSE but SUSE and its product SLE. And many other distros. As they'll become just YARHC (Yet Another RedHat Clone).
Good riddance, -dnh
This is a perfect example of the sort of vitriolic, unproductive, discussions that have no such place on this user support mailinglist. Please take your doomsaying elsewhere. And while you do, consider the following:
systemD is now the default or only init system in the following distributions:
openSUSE Tumbleweed SUSE Linux Enterprise/openSUSE Leap Red Hat Enterprise/CentOS Fedora Debian Ubuntu Linux Mint Mageia Arch Linux
That list, while by no means extensive, represents by far the majority of the Linux ecosystem. Tens of thousands of developers. Millennia of collective relationships with each other and upstream projects. Millions of (presumably mostly happy) users.
Meanwhile, the most prominent 'anti-systemd' distribution, Devuan has just over 12 contributors keeping the Project afloat: https://devuan.org/os/team/
I think the balance of consensus is clear, and while I am always open to the idea that the majority could be making a mistake, the fact remains that tens of thousands of developers are going to be better positioned to correct any such mistakes than 12-24 grey-beards building Devuan
And so, the question becomes a simple one - work to help keep systemd improving openSUSE, as it has over the last 6 years, or work on an alternative? The openSUSE Project has room for either, or both approachs, but that approach will be decided by contributions, not by discussions on an incorrect mailinglist.
The Fact is, there is no place for discussions like this on the firstname.lastname@example.org mailinglist, and the email@example.com mailinglist would only be relevant once people resolve to actually do something about the "situation" they perceive. The remaining discussions about whether systemD is good, bad, evil, ate your homework, or whatever, are pointless and I implore the people involved (on all sides) to stop.