The Testing Core Team will hold an IRC meeting at 17:00 UTC, July 18 on Channel #opensuse-testing on the Freenode IRC Network. irc://irc.freenode.net/opensuse-testing.
The agenda calls for discussion of our experiences with 12.1 MS3. As this release will likely not be available until next week, our discussion may be limited.
Our second agenda item will concern our request to rename MS6 to Beta in hopes of increasing the number of testers in the critical late stages of testing. Our request was posted to the opensuse-project mailing list and has been discussed on opensuse-testing and opensuse-factory. Most of the comments have been favorable, and Stephan Kulow, the Release Manager, has agreed to make the name change although he doubts that it will make much difference. Coolo also asked how we will measure the effect of this change. If you have ideas on this matter, please forward them to the TCT.
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Am 16.07.2011 06:53, schrieb Larry Finger:
The Testing Core Team will hold an IRC meeting at 17:00 UTC, July 18 on Channel #opensuse-testing on the Freenode IRC Network. irc://irc.freenode.net/opensuse-testing.
The agenda calls for discussion of our experiences with 12.1 MS3. As this release will likely not be available until next week, our discussion may be limited.
The main blocker bug was https://bugzilla.novell.com/705085 which will be fixed with acceptance of https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/76287 but we could already test using the Add-On-Product feature in DVD/NET installs with URL http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/HEAD/standard/
for details on this workaround see the video for http://openqa.opensuse.org/results/openSUSE-NET-x86_64-Build0132-kerneldevel 00:21 to 00:29
Our second agenda item will concern our request to rename MS6 to Beta in hopes of increasing the number of testers in the critical late stages of testing. Our request was posted to the opensuse-project mailing list and has been discussed on opensuse-testing and opensuse-factory. Most of the comments have been favorable, and Stephan Kulow, the Release Manager, has agreed to make the name change although he doubts that it will make much difference. Coolo also asked how we will measure the effect of this change. If you have ideas on this matter, please forward them to the TCT.
we can use some crude metrics: download.opensuse.org download numbers as compared to 11.3/4 MS5/MS6/RC1 (does not include direct downloads from mirrors)
And we can look at numbers of bugreports for devel releases which is indicative of tester activity:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=version&y_axis_field...
already shows high values for earlier MS5+ but especially 11.4-RC1
Ciao Bernhard M.
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Am 16.07.2011 21:43, schrieb Bernhard M. Wiedemann:
Am 16.07.2011 06:53, schrieb Larry Finger:
The Testing Core Team will hold an IRC meeting at 17:00 UTC, July 18 on Channel #opensuse-testing on the Freenode IRC Network. irc://irc.freenode.net/opensuse-testing.
The agenda calls for discussion of our experiences with 12.1 MS3. As this release will likely not be available until next week, our discussion may be limited.
The main blocker bug was https://bugzilla.novell.com/705085 which will be fixed with acceptance of https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/76287 but we could already test using the Add-On-Product feature in DVD/NET installs with URL http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/HEAD/standard/
for details on this workaround see the video for http://openqa.opensuse.org/results/openSUSE-NET-x86_64-Build0132-kerneldevel 00:21 to 00:29
forgot to mention that I mirrored some Factory DVD isos http://mirror.zq1.de/opensuse/factory/iso/openSUSE-DVD-i586-Build0132-Media.... http://mirror.zq1.de/opensuse/factory/iso/openSUSE-DVD-x86_64-Build0132-Medi...
which would be sort of an 12.1-MS3-beta1, as it still contains the above 64bit oops.
Ciao Bernhard M.
Am 16.07.2011 22:11, schrieb Bernhard M. Wiedemann:
forgot to mention that I mirrored some Factory DVD isos http://mirror.zq1.de/opensuse/factory/iso/openSUSE-DVD-i586-Build0132-Media.... http://mirror.zq1.de/opensuse/factory/iso/openSUSE-DVD-x86_64-Build0132-Medi...
awesome! Do you also have some KDE-live/Net-install stuff, or just the DVD?
thanks
Am 17.07.2011 00:11, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
Am 16.07.2011 22:11, schrieb Bernhard M. Wiedemann:
forgot to mention that I mirrored some Factory DVD isos http://mirror.zq1.de/opensuse/factory/iso/openSUSE-DVD-i586-Build0132-Media....
http://mirror.zq1.de/opensuse/factory/iso/openSUSE-DVD-x86_64-Build0132-Medi...
awesome! Do you also have some KDE-live/Net-install stuff, or just the DVD?
Okay, checked the directory already on my own and found KDE live, GNOME live, NET-isos and *everything* other I searched before! thank you! Awesome work!
So, good night to everyone, I think it´s kinda too late to start a download now (I get a very low internet connection at the moment :( ) so I will try it maybe tomorrow and set myself in sleep-mode now.
Oh by the way, is the log-in bug in KDE from M1 fixed?
thanks
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Am 17.07.2011 01:27, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
Am 17.07.2011 00:11, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
Am 16.07.2011 22:11, schrieb Bernhard M. Wiedemann:
forgot to mention that I mirrored some Factory DVD isos http://mirror.zq1.de/opensuse/factory/iso/openSUSE-DVD-i586-Build0132-Media....
http://mirror.zq1.de/opensuse/factory/iso/openSUSE-DVD-x86_64-Build0132-Medi...
awesome! Do you also have some KDE-live/Net-install stuff, or just the DVD?
Okay, checked the directory already on my own and found KDE live, GNOME live, NET-isos and *everything* other I searched before! thank you! Awesome work!
the NET and Live isos are just the same as what you always find on http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/ just the DVD isos are special as those are otherwise only uploaded for finished milestones (possibly for space/bandwidth reasons)
So, good night to everyone, I think it´s kinda too late to start a download now (I get a very low internet connection at the moment :( ) so I will try it maybe tomorrow and set myself in sleep-mode now.
Oh by the way, is the log-in bug in KDE from M1 fixed?
yes, it was already working in M2. Updated http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Most_annoying_bugs_12.1_dev
only with systemd, kdm/gdm/lxdm do not work.
http://openqa.opensuse.org/results/openSUSE-NET-i586-Build0132-kerneldevel http://openqa.opensuse.org/results/openSUSE-NET-i586-Build0132-mozilladevel http://openqa.opensuse.org/results/openSUSE-NET-i586-Build0132-lxde
Ciao Bernhard M.
El Sábado, 16 de Julio de 2011 06:53:40 Larry Finger escribió:
The Testing Core Team will hold an IRC meeting at 17:00 UTC, July 18 on Channel #opensuse-testing on the Freenode IRC Network. irc://irc.freenode.net/opensuse-testing.
The agenda calls for discussion of our experiences with 12.1 MS3. As this release will likely not be available until next week, our discussion may be limited.
Our second agenda item will concern our request to rename MS6 to Beta in hopes of increasing the number of testers in the critical late stages of testing. Our request was posted to the opensuse-project mailing list and has been discussed on opensuse-testing and opensuse-factory. Most of the comments have been favorable, and Stephan Kulow, the Release Manager, has agreed to make the name change although he doubts that it will make much difference. Coolo also asked how we will measure the effect of this change. If you have ideas on this matter, please forward them to the TCT.
+1 I prefer the old naming scheme... alpha, beta, RC, release. It's much clear.
Greetings, -- Javier Llorente
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Javier Llorente javier@opensuse.org wrote:
El Sábado, 16 de Julio de 2011 06:53:40 Larry Finger escribió:
The Testing Core Team will hold an IRC meeting at 17:00 UTC, July 18 on Channel #opensuse-testing on the Freenode IRC Network. irc://irc.freenode.net/opensuse-testing.
The agenda calls for discussion of our experiences with 12.1 MS3. As this release will likely not be available until next week, our discussion may be limited.
Our second agenda item will concern our request to rename MS6 to Beta in hopes of increasing the number of testers in the critical late stages of testing. Our request was posted to the opensuse-project mailing list and has been discussed on opensuse-testing and opensuse-factory. Most of the comments have been favorable, and Stephan Kulow, the Release Manager, has agreed to make the name change although he doubts that it will make much difference. Coolo also asked how we will measure the effect of this change. If you have ideas on this matter, please forward them to the TCT.
+1 I prefer the old naming scheme... alpha, beta, RC, release. It's much clear.
Greetings,
Javier Llorente
Javier,
It may be clear, but it is inaccurate. That is why the change to milestones.
How about:
unstable-1 unstable-2 unstable-3 unstable-4 unstable-5 stabilizing-1 stabilizing-2 stabilizing-3 RC Gold
I may have the number of milestones, etc. off, but it is closer to what happens. The issue is there is no generic rule that unstable-1 is more or less stable than unstable-5. And the quality of the stabilizing releases depends on the quality of unstable-5.
Unfortunately, I somehow suspect the name stabilizing-2 won't pull many testers. But I do think it at least has the value of being more clear to the opensuse community.
Greg
El Martes, 19 de Julio de 2011 22:20:24 Greg Freemyer escribió:
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Javier Llorente javier@opensuse.org
wrote:
El Sábado, 16 de Julio de 2011 06:53:40 Larry Finger escribió:
The Testing Core Team will hold an IRC meeting at 17:00 UTC, July 18 on Channel #opensuse-testing on the Freenode IRC Network. irc://irc.freenode.net/opensuse-testing.
The agenda calls for discussion of our experiences with 12.1 MS3. As this release will likely not be available until next week, our discussion may be limited.
Our second agenda item will concern our request to rename MS6 to Beta in hopes of increasing the number of testers in the critical late stages of testing. Our request was posted to the opensuse-project mailing list and has been discussed on opensuse-testing and opensuse-factory. Most of the comments have been favorable, and Stephan Kulow, the Release Manager, has agreed to make the name change although he doubts that it will make much difference. Coolo also asked how we will measure the effect of this change. If you have ideas on this matter, please forward them to the TCT.
+1 I prefer the old naming scheme... alpha, beta, RC, release. It's much clear.
Greetings,
Javier Llorente
Javier,
It may be clear, but it is inaccurate. That is why the change to milestones.
How about:
unstable-1 unstable-2 unstable-3 unstable-4 unstable-5 stabilizing-1 stabilizing-2 stabilizing-3 RC Gold
I may have the number of milestones, etc. off, but it is closer to what happens. The issue is there is no generic rule that unstable-1 is more or less stable than unstable-5. And the quality of the stabilizing releases depends on the quality of unstable-5.
Unfortunately, I somehow suspect the name stabilizing-2 won't pull many testers. But I do think it at least has the value of being more clear to the opensuse community.
Well, I think that the terms I used on the previous message are widely used on the software world. Another story is if they truely represent what they mean ;) You could also have alpha0, alpha1, alpha2,... then beta1 (of higher quality than alphas), beta2, beta3 and so on. A milestone could be of alpha or beta quality. How can you tell that milestone5 or milestone6 is better than milestone4?
Good night, -- Javier Llorente
On 19 July 2011 21:20, Greg Freemyer greg.freemyer@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Javier Llorente javier@opensuse.org wrote:
I prefer the old naming scheme... alpha, beta, RC, release. It's much clear.
Javier,
It may be clear, but it is inaccurate. That is why the change to milestones.
How about:
unstable-1 ... stabilizing-1 ... RC ... Gold
Is "unstable" or "stabilising" any more accurate? The distro doesn't necessarily have a queue of "risky" changes, kernel & desktop environment releases require integration quite late on. Rather than release naming being a logic problem, the issue of encouraging wider testing pre-release via the "beta" conivention is simply about emotional message; to encourage openSUSE users who *could* contribute useful bug reports to give it a spin and do so, rather than waiting till RC1.
We should not waste much time on release numbering & naming conventions, M1 .. MN is workeable. Labelling Alpha, Beta, RC, GM or Final, is more about informing the wider user base. We all know all releases are going to need patching, in a modern networked environment.
As a project, by labelling 12.1 M6 as "Beta", it allows more effective marketing of the pre-release, implicitly it says this should be safe enough for early adopters to run & use, getting a preview of 12.1 final. The bugs found at that point, have a better chance of being fixed (ideally) before the GM, or an entry in Release Notes.
Larry's suggestion might not wildly increase installs of 12.1 M6, but it can't do any harm and disappointments are easier to take in a "beta" than at "RC" stage, and tend to be forgotton if a fix is available for GM or as an update at end of first install..
Personally, I think efforts like factory-tested repo & Tumbleweed, have far more potential to encourage more testers, than fiddling with version numbers & naming :)
Regards Rob
Am Mittwoch, 20. Juli 2011, 11:44:54 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:
On 19 July 2011 21:20, Greg Freemyer greg.freemyer@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Javier Llorente javier@opensuse.org
wrote:
I prefer the old naming scheme... alpha, beta, RC, release. It's much clear.
Javier,
It may be clear, but it is inaccurate. That is why the change to milestones.
How about:
unstable-1 ... stabilizing-1 ... RC ... Gold
Is "unstable" or "stabilising" any more accurate? The distro doesn't necessarily have a queue of "risky" changes, kernel & desktop environment releases require integration quite late on. Rather than release naming being a logic problem, the issue of encouraging wider testing pre-release via the "beta" conivention is simply about emotional message; to encourage openSUSE users who *could* contribute useful bug reports to give it a spin and do so, rather than waiting till RC1.
We should not waste much time on release numbering & naming conventions, M1 .. MN is workeable. Labelling Alpha, Beta, RC, GM or Final, is more about informing the wider user base. We all know all releases are going to need patching, in a modern networked environment.
As a project, by labelling 12.1 M6 as "Beta", it allows more effective marketing of the pre-release, implicitly it says this should be safe enough for early adopters to run & use, getting a preview of 12.1 final. The bugs found at that point, have a better chance of being fixed (ideally) before the GM, or an entry in Release Notes.
Larry's suggestion might not wildly increase installs of 12.1 M6, but it can't do any harm and disappointments are easier to take in a "beta" than at "RC" stage, and tend to be forgotton if a fix is available for GM or as an update at end of first install..
Personally, I think efforts like factory-tested repo & Tumbleweed, have far more potential to encourage more testers, than fiddling with version numbers & naming :)
Regards Rob
I agree, the numbering is not this important, you could also stick with the build number. We hope that the name "Beta" for a release will draw more attention of potential users. For me it's fun to see, that a naming scheme starts more discussion than some testing issues :)
Regards Jürgen
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Bernhard M. Wiedemann -
Greg Freemyer -
Javier Llorente -
Jürgen Radzuweit -
Kim Leyendecker -
Larry Finger -
Rob OpenSuSE