On 12/09/2019 14.25, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

Dear list readers,

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

IMHO: Report in Bugzilla. If you want your system up now, install again WITH recommended and forget it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Am 12.09.19 um 14:59 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 12/09/2019 14.25, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Dear list readers,

...

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

IMHO: Report in Bugzilla.

If you want your system up now, install again WITH recommended and forget it.

Thanks for your quick reply! However i don't like the idea of installing hundreds of packages which i actually shouldn't really need (they are only recommended, aren't they?). And if Installing recommends is needed for a graphical desktop then disabling that option should either give an message saying so (becaus two steps earlier i told the system that i would like to install KDE Plasma) or should not be possible at all. Filing bugs against a moving target like Tumbleweed does not sound very promising. Before the bug is read the first time there will be four or five new versions available. Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Am 12.09.19 um 15:10 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:

* Carlos E. R. [09-12-19 09:02]:

...

On 12/09/2019 14.25, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Dear list readers,

...

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

IMHO: Report in Bugzilla.

If you want your system up now, install again WITH recommended and forget it.

I *usually* make a miniminal install with recommends and then remove the unneeded "-lang" packages (English is all I require). After, I update adding packages I require with --no-recommends. And have been doing this for many years.

If a particular package appears to present problems, I inspect what zypper would have installed with "recommends" and adjust if necessary. I do not recall an instance where that has been necessary.

Thanks for your answer to my post. In the past i did as you described and - like you - had no problems neither with Leap releases nor with Tumbleweed. However it was always quite time consuming to remove packages i don't need/want. So i thought it might be better to not install them at the very beginning. So on my first attempt (still available as another installation) i not only disabled Installed recommends but removed the packages i do not want and selected those i usually want (but are not part of the normal install). This gave me a working system except that it is an english/german language mix. Although installed as German i do have menus partly in english partly in german. I can't sort out which package i am still missing to get a complete german desktop. Because i had no complete record of the changes i made during installation i made this second attempt which i kept a precise record of but that failed even worse. Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 14:25:12 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

Dear list readers,

today i installed openSUSE Tumbleweed20190824-0 on this machine:

Intel® Core™ i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz Memory: 31,3 GiB Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller Samsung SSD 850 PRO 256GB (pre-partitioned with GPT, pre-formatted but otherwise empty)

This is where i changed the defaults of the installer

Language + Keyboard Layout: German Network Settings: skipped System Role: Desktop with KDE Plasma Expert Partitioner - Start with existing Partitions => ESP (fat32), /(ext4), home(ext4) Clock and TimeZone: no changes made Local User: created with Automatic Login and Use this password for system Administrator both disabled Authentification for System Administrator: provided Installer Settings: selected Software Software Selection and System Tasks: selcted Details... on next screen: selected menu item Dependencies and disabled Install recommended packages pressed Accept and got presented with a list of packages to be installed pressed OK and was back to Installer Settings pressed Install

On reboot i was presented with a commandline login.

journalctl -b0 -p3 showed no errors except Couldn't get size: 0x80...0e + MODSIGN: Couldn't get UEFI db list (i see these errors on other openSUSE systems where they do no harm)

Yast2 shows X is installed

startkde gives $DISPLAY not set or cannot connect to the X server

startx fails with command not found

hwinfo --gfxcard says i915 is active

lsmod shows i915 is loaded

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

Which packages do i need to install (however, i would not like to install all recommended packages)?

Thank you very much for your help.

Regards

Hagen export DISPLAY=:0; startkde Does that work? Also: login as root, do yast You'll see the ncurses version. in System > Services manager check that the default target is 'graphical.target'

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Am 12.09.19 um 17:49 schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 14:25:12 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

today i installed openSUSE Tumbleweed20190824-0 on this machine:

Intel® Core™ i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz Memory: 31,3 GiB Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller Samsung SSD 850 PRO 256GB (pre-partitioned with GPT, pre-formatted but otherwise empty)

This is where i changed the defaults of the installer

Language + Keyboard Layout: German Network Settings: skipped System Role: Desktop with KDE Plasma Expert Partitioner - Start with existing Partitions => ESP (fat32), /(ext4), home(ext4) Clock and TimeZone: no changes made Local User: created with Automatic Login and Use this password for system Administrator both disabled Authentification for System Administrator: provided Installer Settings: selected Software Software Selection and System Tasks: selcted Details... on next screen: selected menu item Dependencies and disabled Install recommended packages pressed Accept and got presented with a list of packages to be installed pressed OK and was back to Installer Settings pressed Install

On reboot i was presented with a commandline login.

journalctl -b0 -p3 showed no errors except Couldn't get size: 0x80...0e + MODSIGN: Couldn't get UEFI db list (i see these errors on other openSUSE systems where they do no harm)

Yast2 shows X is installed

startkde gives $DISPLAY not set or cannot connect to the X server

startx fails with command not found

hwinfo --gfxcard says i915 is active

lsmod shows i915 is loaded

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

Which packages do i need to install (however, i would not like to install all recommended packages)?

Thank you very much for your help.

Regards

Hagen export DISPLAY=:0; startkde Does that work?

I can set the DISPLAY variable (env will show it) but startkde still complains "$DISPLAY not set or cannot connect to the X server"

Also: login as root, do yast You'll see the ncurses version. in System > Services manager check that the default target is 'graphical.target'

The default target is set to 'graphical.target'. Thanks for your answer to my post. Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:16:34 +0200 Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 18:06:20 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Am 12.09.19 um 17:49 schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:

...

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 14:25:12 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

today i installed openSUSE Tumbleweed20190824-0 on this machine:

Intel® Core™ i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz Memory: 31,3 GiB Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller Samsung SSD 850 PRO 256GB (pre-partitioned with GPT, pre-formatted but otherwise empty)

This is where i changed the defaults of the installer

Language + Keyboard Layout: German Network Settings: skipped System Role: Desktop with KDE Plasma Expert Partitioner - Start with existing Partitions => ESP (fat32), /(ext4), home(ext4) Clock and TimeZone: no changes made Local User: created with Automatic Login and Use this password for system Administrator both disabled Authentification for System Administrator: provided Installer Settings: selected Software Software Selection and System Tasks: selcted Details... on next screen: selected menu item Dependencies and disabled Install recommended packages pressed Accept and got presented with a list of packages to be installed pressed OK and was back to Installer Settings pressed Install

On reboot i was presented with a commandline login.

journalctl -b0 -p3 showed no errors except Couldn't get size: 0x80...0e + MODSIGN: Couldn't get UEFI db list (i see these errors on other openSUSE systems where they do no harm)

Yast2 shows X is installed

startkde gives $DISPLAY not set or cannot connect to the X server

startx fails with command not found

hwinfo --gfxcard says i915 is active

lsmod shows i915 is loaded

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

Which packages do i need to install (however, i would not like to install all recommended packages)?

Thank you very much for your help.

Regards

Hagen

export DISPLAY=:0; startkde Does that work?

I can set the DISPLAY variable (env will show it) but startkde still complains "$DISPLAY not set or cannot connect to the X server"

...

Also: login as root, do yast You'll see the ncurses version. in System > Services manager check that the default target is 'graphical.target'

The default target is set to 'graphical.target'.

Thanks for your answer to my post.

Regards

Hagen And what happens ( if you're up to it ) if you do sudo zypper ref sudo zypper inr sudo reboot ?

Are you on a btrfs filesystem, snapshots enabled? If so, it would be easy to rollback if that doesn't work either

But if he isn't it will put his system permanently into exactly the state he does not want!!!! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/09/2019 17.51, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

Am 12.09.19 um 17:33 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

On 12/09/2019 16.55, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 12.09.19 um 14:59 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

On 12/09/2019 14.25, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Dear list readers,

...

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

IMHO: Report in Bugzilla.

If you want your system up now, install again WITH recommended and forget it.

Thanks for your quick reply!

However i don't like the idea of installing hundreds of packages which i actually shouldn't really need (they are only recommended, aren't they?).

And if Installing recommends is needed for a graphical desktop then disabling that option should either give an message saying so (becaus two steps earlier i told the system that i would like to install KDE Plasma) or should not be possible at all.

Filing bugs against a moving target like Tumbleweed does not sound very promising. Before the bug is read the first time there will be four or five new versions available.

Yeah, but the thing is, it should work,

Are you sure ?

In my humble opinion, yes. Some features will not work (because they are optional), but the basic should work. What is that minimal, I don't know, but surely it should start.

...

... but it doesn't. The thing to do for a user is to report it. And for devs the thing to do would be to include this situation in the openqa testing, IMHO, and then solve the issues one by one till it works. Which may take months or years, I suppose, so there is the consideration if it is worth it.

Yes i agree!

I just thought i might reach someone who had tried the same AND had a solution (different to install all recommends).

Not me! Disk has ample space, I don't have internet restrictions, and I don't want or need to have a minimal install. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

12.09.19 20:18 - Carlos E. R.:

On 12/09/2019 17.51, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 12.09.19 um 17:33 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

On 12/09/2019 16.55, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 12.09.19 um 14:59 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

On 12/09/2019 14.25, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Dear list readers,

...

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

... I just thought i might reach someone who had tried the same AND had a solution (different to install all recommends).

Not me! Disk has ample space, I don't have internet restrictions, and I don't want or need to have a minimal install.

If it wasn't Tumbleweed i would not really care either. But receiving updates several times a week many of them 100+ packages (and some up to 2000+ packages) makes having packages which you don't need simply a waste of resources (time, bandwidth, electricity, ...). Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

12.09.19 21:17 - Knurpht-openSUSE:

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 20:59:28 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

12.09.19 20:18 - Carlos E. R.:

...

On 12/09/2019 17.51, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 12.09.19 um 17:33 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

On 12/09/2019 16.55, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 12.09.19 um 14:59 schrieb Carlos E. R.: > On 12/09/2019 14.25, Hagen Buliwyf wrote: >> Dear list readers, >> >> >> So my question is >> >> Is an installation without recommended packages by >> definition an installation without graphical desktop or >> did i make a mistake while installing?

...

...

...

I just thought i might reach someone who had tried the same AND had a solution (different to install all recommends).

Not me! Disk has ample space, I don't have internet restrictions, and I don't want or need to have a minimal install.

If it wasn't Tumbleweed i would not really care either.

But receiving updates several times a week many of them 100+ packages (and some up to 2000+ packages) makes having packages which you don't need simply a waste of resources (time, bandwidth, electricity, ...).

Regards

Hagen TW does not force you to dup on every snapshot ...... I know of people who dup once a month.

Well, it is not only the update process that costs resources ...

Must say though that I've done a lot of modifying during install, but never this.

Since several months ago a btrfs-whatsoever-package messed up during an update (although i never use btrfs nor do i install it by intention or order the start of any task related to it) i became aware of the fact that unused packages not only waste disk space (which we do have plenty today) ... Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

12.09.19 21:46 - Knurpht-openSUSE:

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 21:39:40 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

12.09.19 21:17 - Knurpht-openSUSE:

...

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 20:59:28 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

12.09.19 20:18 - Carlos E. R.:

...

On 12/09/2019 17.51, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 12.09.19 um 17:33 schrieb Carlos E. R.: > On 12/09/2019 16.55, Hagen Buliwyf wrote: >> Am 12.09.19 um 14:59 schrieb Carlos E. R.: >>> On 12/09/2019 14.25, Hagen Buliwyf wrote: >>>> Dear list readers, >>>> >>>> >>>> So my question is >>>> >>>> Is an installation without recommended packages by >>>> definition an installation without graphical desktop or >>>> did i make a mistake while installing?

...

...

Can you post Xorg.0.log on paste.opensuse.org and the resulting URL here?

I will try but tomorrow morning, not today (need some sleep now). Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Hagen Buliwyf composed on 2019-09-12 14:25 (UTC+0200): ...

Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller ... lsmod shows i915 is loaded

That's a kernel driver (KMS), not an X driver (which depends on KMS being enabled).

So my question is

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

Which packages do i need to install (however, i would not like to install all recommended packages)?

I'm guessing what you need but did not get installed is kernel-firmware. SDDM and Plasma AFAIK depend on functionality the fallback (DD)X drivers cannot provide. X probably has fallen back to the VESA driver and its absent functionality is why you got the black screen from startx and no GUI login greeter. With kernel-firmware installed, KMS will provided what is required so that either of the two competent DDX for your GPU can satisfy SDDM and Plasma. Upstream default (newer technology) DDX is "modesetting", provided by the X server package. If xf86-video-intel is installed, the old tech (on what AFAICT amounts to life support maintenance; no official release in over four years) "intel" DDX will be used. Good chance, though far from 100%, with Xeon E3-1200 graphics you won't be able to notice any difference between modesetting DDX and intel DDX. (Haswell) Xeon E3-1200 is what I had on this PC when new, since upgraded to Intel 4th Generation Core graphics via CPU change. If I'm wrong, do as Knurpht asked in his 2019-09-12 21:46 (UTC+0200) response. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Am 12.09.19 um 21:46 schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 21:39:40 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

12.09.19 21:17 - Knurpht-openSUSE:

...

Op donderdag 12 september 2019 20:59:28 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

12.09.19 20:18 - Carlos E. R.:

...

On 12/09/2019 17.51, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 12.09.19 um 17:33 schrieb Carlos E. R.: > On 12/09/2019 16.55, Hagen Buliwyf wrote: >> Am 12.09.19 um 14:59 schrieb Carlos E. R.: >>> On 12/09/2019 14.25, Hagen Buliwyf wrote: >>>> Dear list readers, >>>> >>>> >>>> So my question is >>>> >>>> Is an installation without recommended packages by >>>> definition an installation without graphical desktop or >>>> did i make a mistake while installing?

...

...

...

I just thought i might reach someone who had tried the same AND had a solution (different to install all recommends).

Not me! Disk has ample space, I don't have internet restrictions, and I don't want or need to have a minimal install.

If it wasn't Tumbleweed i would not really care either.

But receiving updates several times a week many of them 100+ packages (and some up to 2000+ packages) makes having packages which you don't need simply a waste of resources (time, bandwidth, electricity, ...).

Regards

Hagen

TW does not force you to dup on every snapshot ...... I know of people who dup once a month.

Well, it is not only the update process that costs resources ...

...

Must say though that I've done a lot of modifying during install, but never this.

Since several months ago a btrfs-whatsoever-package messed up during an update (although i never use btrfs nor do i install it by intention or order the start of any task related to it) i became aware of the fact that unused packages not only waste disk space (which we do have plenty today) ...

Regards

Hagen Can you post Xorg.0.log on paste.opensuse.org and the resulting URL here?

Here we go: https://paste.opensuse.org/68601157 To make it clear: The X-server did not start automatically. I started it with "X&" (and killed it with "killall X"). Starting the X-Server results in a black screen but Strg+Alt+F1 brings me back to the console i used to start it. Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Am 13.09.19 um 04:40 schrieb Felix Miata:

Hagen Buliwyf composed on 2019-09-12 14:25 (UTC+0200): ...

...

Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller ... lsmod shows i915 is loaded

That's a kernel driver (KMS), not an X driver (which depends on KMS being enabled).

...

So my question is

...

Is an installation without recommended packages by definition an installation without graphical desktop or did i make a mistake while installing?

...

Which packages do i need to install (however, i would not like to install all recommended packages)?

I'm guessing what you need but did not get installed is kernel-firmware.

I did "zypper in kernel-firmware" and rebooted the system. It came up with no X-server started. I could start the X-server with "X&" but "startkde" still failed.

SDDM and Plasma AFAIK depend on functionality the fallback (DD)X drivers cannot provide. X probably has fallen back to the VESA driver and its absent functionality is why you got the black screen from startx and no GUI login greeter.

With kernel-firmware installed, KMS will provided what is required so that either of the two competent DDX for your GPU can satisfy SDDM and Plasma. Upstream default (newer technology) DDX is "modesetting", provided by the X server package. If xf86-video-intel is installed, the old tech (on what AFAICT amounts to life support maintenance; no official release in over four years) "intel" DDX will be used. Good chance, though far from 100%, with Xeon E3-1200 graphics you won't be able to notice any difference between modesetting DDX and intel DDX.

"zypper in xf86-video-intel" installed libva-X11-2, libvdpau_va_gl1, libvulkan_intel, libXinerame1, libXrandr2, libXvMC1 and xf86-video-intel. After reboot the system still came up with no X-server started. I could start the X-server with "X&" but "startkde" still fails. The related Xorg logfile can be found here: https://paste.opensuse.org/12079026 Regards Hagen

(Haswell) Xeon E3-1200 is what I had on this PC when new, since upgraded to Intel 4th Generation Core graphics via CPU change.

If I'm wrong, do as Knurpht asked in his 2019-09-12 21:46 (UTC+0200) response.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

However i don't like the idea of installing hundreds of packages which i actually shouldn't really need (they are only recommended, aren't they?).

Same here, though I've so far only disabled recommends after the install... Reading the thread, that seems to be 'common standard' which might explain why no one has faced that problem so far...

And if Installing recommends is needed for a graphical desktop then disabling that option should either give an message saying so (becaus two steps earlier i told the system that i would like to install KDE Plasma) or should not be possible at all.

No, this clearly is a bug. If you specify 'Desktop with KDE' everything that is needed to run this is required. Is some of the necessary packages are only recommended this is a bug. What I'd do is - check what the status of display-manager reports, systemctl status display-manager Is sddm installed? - Check what the zypper inr command wants to install, if there is anything obvious that could be related to the issue. Or post that list (stripped off the -lang packages). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Am 13.09.19 um 12:42 schrieb Peter Suetterlin:

Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

However i don't like the idea of installing hundreds of packages which i actually shouldn't really need (they are only recommended, aren't they?).

Same here, though I've so far only disabled recommends after the install... Reading the thread, that seems to be 'common standard' which might explain why no one has faced that problem so far...

...

And if Installing recommends is needed for a graphical desktop then disabling that option should either give an message saying so (becaus two steps earlier i told the system that i would like to install KDE Plasma) or should not be possible at all.

No, this clearly is a bug. If you specify 'Desktop with KDE' everything that is needed to run this is required. Is some of the necessary packages are only recommended this is a bug.

What I'd do is

- check what the status of display-manager reports, systemctl status display-manager Is sddm installed?

- Check what the zypper inr command wants to install, if there is anything obvious that could be related to the issue. Or post that list (stripped off the -lang packages).

Thanks for your answer to my post. In the meantime i found that no display manager at all was installed. Installing sddm brings me now to a graphical login screen an i can log into a plasma session. Probably all was my fault because i don't know how to use KDE Plasma without a display manager ? Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

On 13/09/2019 14.27, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

Am 13.09.19 um 12:42 schrieb Peter Suetterlin:

...

Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

In the meantime i found that no display manager at all was installed. Installing sddm brings me now to a graphical login screen an i can log into a plasma session.

Probably all was my fault because i don't know how to use KDE Plasma without a display manager ?

You are not supposed to not have and use a display manager. If it was missing, that's a bug, one is required. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Am 14.09.19 um 07:05 schrieb Andrei Borzenkov:

13.09.2019 22:48, Carlos E. R. пишет:

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On 13/09/2019 14.27, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 13.09.19 um 12:42 schrieb Peter Suetterlin:

...

Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

In the meantime i found that no display manager at all was installed. Installing sddm brings me now to a graphical login screen an i can log into a plasma session.

Probably all was my fault because i don't know how to use KDE Plasma without a display manager ?

You are not supposed to not have and use a display manager. If it was missing, that's a bug, one is required.

Display manager is required only if local graphical login is needed. Headless system does not need display manager, but still may have graphical environment which allows running GUI applications (including full desktop) on demand (via SSH, VNC or whatever).

Thanks for answering to my post. So "System Role: Desktop with KDE Plasma" does not REQUIRE the installation of a desktop manager or to phrase it more precise: a desktop manager is only a "recommended" feature for this system role. I'm no native english speaker, so i guess that my understanding of the term "recommended" is obviously wrong. Please accept my apologizes for causing so much disturbance on this list.

There is no uncontroversial split between requirements and dependencies. Especially today, when containers are becoming more frequently used, every extra hard dependency will result in large total overhead.

Further discussion is pointless without knowing what exact patterns were selected during installation. Pattern kde_plasma recommends sddm. If user ignores recommends, user gets what (s)he asked for.

My personal opinion - Recommends are for experts to allow trimming their installation *when they know and understand what they are doing*. IOW anyone refusing to install recommends and getting into issues has only himself to blame.

I agree with you completely! Someone who dares to change an option three levels below the standard installation path defined by openSUSE should not be given any warning that her/his selection will cause grief changes to all selections she/he made before. That's the only way people like me will be able to learn about openSUSE. So there is no need for me to create a bugzilla report. Considering the fact that i already spent a lot of time on this installation that is great news. Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org