openSUSE Software Management December 2008

softwaremgmt@lists.opensuse.org

9 participants
7 discussions

[softwaremgmt] Need to log packages installed by off-line one-click install (fate #305582)
by Jan Kupec 24 Dec '08

24 Dec '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Federico Lucifredi wrote: > Feature #305582, revision 19 > Title: Off-Line one click install (MSI for Linux) > #12: Benjamin Weber <benji(a)opensuse.org> (2008-12-18 19:21:11) (reply > to #11) > Getting a bit off topic but some of the reasons it's not trivial to > implement the uninstall is that you > a) need the history of what packages were installed as part of the > installation (including automatically selected dependencies) I'm not sure why. Do you suggest that we should be able to list packages (or the whole bundles) installed via the off-line one-click inst? I would say there is no need for that - packages from the bundle will get installed, the bundle repository will get removed, but the packages will still be known to the package management just like they would if you installed any packages from any repo and then removed that repo. What is the problem with that? > b) Need to only remove the packages that were installed by the original > installation but are not required by anything else that was installed > subsequently (we don't want to uninstall unrelated things). Here again, you will use the package management to remove any software you don't want anymore just like you do now. Why invent something more on top of that? Well, there is one thing that comes handy - the removal of unused packages (the packages installed by solver and not required by any other package) - but this will be implemented anyway. Here i suggest two modes for this: 1) cleaning up the whole system from unused packages 2) removing only those packages that are becoming unused based on the user's request in a transaction. The information about who installed a package (solver or user/application) we alread have. What else do we need? This way, you can install FOO dragging in any packages from the bundle and later uninstall FOO anytime, removing also any unused stuff it would leave. > c) Need to cope with users removing individual packages manually since > installation. When do we decide that the application is no longer > installed? Again. Why complicate this? Any reason not to stick with current concept of installed status of an application, i.e. per-package? > The biggest problem is a) As we do not have a transaction- > level history of what packages were stored afaik, We don't (we only log who installed what, but not in which transaction). But why do we need this? > and are certainly not > tieing it to application level metadata. I'm not sure what do you mean by this. > #14: Duncan Mac-Vicar <dmacvicar(a)novell.com> (2008-12-18 20:52:19) > (reply to #13) > Yes. Benjamin is right. > We are looking into this concept. There is a thread in zypp-devel about > this, and it is more complex than it sounds (requires the algorithm to > know where the package comes from and why it was installed, information > that is right now not available). Which thread is that? > + #16: Federico Lucifredi <flucifredi(a)novell.com> (2008-12-20 08:02:36) > + the idea is interesting, but if it is really self-contained like an > + MSI. With repos involved, I am not so sure... (referring to ml > + discussion) The suggestion is to pack the repo _into_ the bundle, so the whole thing would be self-contained. No external repos (well, except the mandatory prerequisite of some base system - the distro DVD, or stable online repo, but i guess this can't be really solved (even the MSI isn't completely self-contained, or is it?), we just need to find the best compromise). - -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team - ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 - ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz - ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)--- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklPXkQACgkQgEhGpmN+6QEbhQCfSDEMp7rSFbVTGjruzW0j9heM +s4An2iVnSdBmmJiABy3wqf4Wj0RwdTo =heXg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help(a)opensuse.org

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[softwaremgmt] Ruck, an old-new alternative command line interface for PackageKit
by Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett 15 Dec '08

15 Dec '08

JFYI -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [packagekit] Ruck, an old-new alternative command line interface for PackageKit Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:13:09 +0000 From: Aidan Skinner <aidan(a)skinner.me.uk> Reply-To: PackageKit users and developers list <packagekit(a)lists.freedesktop.org> To: packagekit(a)lists.freedesktop.org Hi, I've pushed a port of rum (http://code.google.com/p/rum) to PackageKit. Rum's a port of rug (the Red Carpet command line client) to yum, and ruck is the same thing but it speaks to package kit. It's written in python and is easy to extend (you can drop new commands into a directory and it will pick them up). Basic functionality works, it should be able to list installed packages (ruck pa), list updates (ruck lu) and update the system (ruck up). A few things (repo management, installation, search) are currently broken but should be easily fixed. A few other things (package locks) are currently unimplemented, and there's still some yum-isms kicking around that should be excised. - Aidan (who likes parentheses) -- http://aidan-skinner.livejournal.com/ Apache Qpid - Open Enterprise Messaging http://qpid.apache.org It’s a stupid, dangerous, HELLISH world . . . But don’t let it FRIGHTEN you! _______________________________________________ PackageKit mailing list PackageKit(a)lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/packagekit -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help(a)opensuse.org

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[softwaremgmt] Re: zypper foo --repo (was: Is 1-Click reliable?)
by Cristian Morales Vega 11 Dec '08

11 Dec '08

2008/12/10 Jan Kupec <jkupec(a)suse.cz>: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Cristian Morales Vega wrote: >> Off-topic, but it would be a great addition also to zypper. The >> "--repo" option from "zypper install" is... counterintuitive, at least >> the one from openSUSE 11.0. You would expect it to install the >> selected packages from the selected repo... *without* disabling other >> repos. All repos (OBS, Packman...) depend on the official one (OSS), >> so a "zypper install -r packman <package>" can easily return a >> (stupid) dependency error because it isn't searching dependencies in >> OSS. > >> In http://svn.opensuse.org/svn/zypp/trunk/zypper/doc/TODO it is said: >> "+ zypper up --some-option repofoo (like 'rug up repo'?) - update >> packages from specified repos without disabling the others"... so I >> suppose you already know about this and I haven't opened a bug report >> for zypper in... should I? > > Yes, we know about that. No need for a report. > >> In my opinion a new option isn't needed, >> but "--repo" behavior should be changed. > > There are more people who would agree with you > (http://lists.opensuse.org/zypp-devel/2008-10/msg00050.html). I think > the current --repo functionality makes sense, too. So we should either > introduce a new option for 'install-from-repos' and keep current --repo > behavior, or make --repo do 'install-from-repos' and introduce new > option to do 'use-only-this-repo': > > To put it more clearly (the new option names are subject to discussion): > > Either > > 1) zypper foo --repo - use repo (and ignore others) > zypper foo --from - install from repo > > or > > 2) zypper foo --repo - install from repo > zypper foo --use-repo - use repo (and ignore others) > > What do you think? I'm not against a new option if it's needed. But, when the current --repo functionality makes sense? I said --repo behavior should be changed because I don't see a user case for the current behavior. If all deps are in the selected repo then both options behave the same. And if some needed deps are in a different repo... the only difference is that an option fails. Being the only difference that one option fails to install in some cases... it seems to me that nobody will need it. If there is a user case for both options... I suppose '1' or '2' would depend of the final names of the options. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help(a)opensuse.org

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[softwaremgmt] Is 1-Click reliable?
by Cristian Morales Vega 10 Dec '08

10 Dec '08

I see there are still users complaining about the 1-Click links from http://opensuse-community.org/ not working (meaning they don't have full multimedia support after using them). The thing is these new users don't report the problem at bugzilla (even if they write loooong messages in the forums, who knows why...), and more experienced users prefer to use lower level methods*. So, looking at http://opensuse-community.org/codecs-gnome.ymp I have some questions: - The file lists some repositories and package names, without any relation between them, nothing more. Doesn't the format allows to give more info ("install this package only from this repo"...)? If I must trust http://en.opensuse.org/Standards/One_Click_Install you can't even specify the priority of each repo... - The file lists "gstreamer-0_10-plugins-good"... well, both Packman and OSS provide a package with such a name. Which version will be installed? From http://en.opensuse.org/One_Click_Install/Design it seems that yast-pkgbindings is the one that makes the decision... without any special handler, just installs what it would have installed if I would have manually added the repos (with a "default", unspecified, priority). The thing is it isn't obvious what yast-pkgbindings will select on each openSUSE version (see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-softwaremgmt/2008-09/msg00004.html). With this situation it looks pretty difficult to me to create a 1-Click link to add multimedia suppport that will work 100% of time. You just don't know which package will be installed when there are multiple packages with the same name (most of gstreamer ones...) - Package selection (yast-pkgbindings) behavior isn't clear, different between version. - Repository addition seems to have undefined cases. Which priorities they will have? If the user already has Packman with priority X and he clicks on this 1-Click link what will happen? The priority will be maintained? The unspecified priority from the link will overwrite the priority from the user system? What if the user already has Packman, but from a different mirror? There is a reliable way to identify a repo? Name, description and URL aren't enough. * I will never click on "ok" until I see an exact list of which packages (with name, version, release and arch) are going to be installed. It would not be a bad idea to add such a list, at least in a "debug mode", just for testing purposes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [softwaremgmt] Is 1-Click reliable?
by Cristian Morales Vega 09 Dec '08

09 Dec '08

2008/12/6 Benji Weber <b.weber(a)warwick.ac.uk>: > I totally agree on the repository de-duping issue. This has been a > problem from the beginning, and there's still no way to uniquely > identify a repository based on the metadata stored in the repository. > See https://bugzilla.novell.com/377568 , until this is resolved it's > also difficult to solve some of the other issues you raise. Good to know the problem is being worked on > Regarding which repository packages will be installed from. The > handler will prefer packages from the repositories explicitly > mentioned in the YMP itself over others that are present on the user's > system. However, you are correct that there is currently no way to > explictly specify which repository every single package comes from. The problem is you must add the OSS repo since you don't know if the user already added it, and since what you are trying to archieve is a sustitution of OSS repo packages... > Repository priorities are not supported yet since there was no support > in libzypp/yast for repository priorities at the time, it should be in > the future. Ok. > There are a couple of things you can use in the meantime to work > around some of the problems you have noticed. One possibility is to > work with the package maintainers to adjust the dependencies and > package naming to create something uniquely available. eg. > packman-foo. Another is to use the more powerful Pattern format and in > the YMP simply specify to install the Pattern instead of a package. > N.B. this will not work in 11.0 due to a regression in that version of > libzypp where it didn't support rpm-md patterns > https://bugzilla.novell.com/419947 . I understand this is fixed in > 11.1, though I haven't had time to install 11.1 yet. Yes, even in an _updated_ 11.0 system rpm-md patterns work. I must admit I never understood what patterns offer that a simple rpm metapackage doesn't, but looking into an example (http://novell.com/package/metadata/suse/pattern returns 404, I don't know where I can find a spec... even if I don't talk XML/XSD :-p ) it looks like they offer the same than 1-Click, limited to a single repo, plus "recommends" and "suggests". I _suppose_ that even if just package names are provided, ZYpp will select packages only from the same repo the pattern comes from, true? If so, would be a good idea to talk with Packman... but, how can patterns.xml be created? http://en.opensuse.org/Enhancerepo talks about patterns like something "planned", and so I suppose createrepo doesn't supports them. Right now a text editor is everything Packman has available to create patterns? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help(a)opensuse.org

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[softwaremgmt] RIS specification updated
by Jan Kupec 09 Dec '08

09 Dec '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I filled some missing parts in the Repository Index Service specification, mainly regarding client handling the repository index. I would consider it done already, but there are still a few things i would like to see done in the future: 1. The distro_target attribute should be turned into some standard distribution identifier to make it really useful. The CPE looks like a good candidate. 2. The spec does not say how to handle repositories of type unknown to the client. They should be ignored, but the type attribute of <repo> is currently optional so the type does not need to be known when refreshing the service. One solution could be to make the type attribute required, another could be to require that the client removes any repositories comming from a service that are of unknown type. The latter seems to be cumbersome, i would go for the former. 3. It might be worth to add the examples from this Duncan's post to the page (they're much better than those of mine :O). 4. The specification should not be kept solely as a wiki (should not be editable by broad public; version control is problematic, etc.). Any suggestion where it should be instead? Feel free to drop a comment about the specification, or the concept, etc. Some TODOs for libzypp: * sync repo URI with the repoindex, if changed * ignore repos with unknown type when refreshing service http://jniq.blogspot.com/2008/12/ris-specification-updated.html - -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team - ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 - ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz - ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)--- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkk+e5gACgkQgEhGpmN+6QFztACfX1EhUog3xzogTqrrZxZIOIJ1 0lcAn0rlsehXNk8o+oZR0UmU/xpv1vp+ =dwzR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help(a)opensuse.org

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[softwaremgmt] Mountain View Meeting next week to discuss trusted third-party repos
by Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett 04 Dec '08

04 Dec '08

https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/packaging/2008-December/000884… JFYI (I ignore what they are trying to achieve). (thanks Benjamin for pointing it out) Duncan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help(a)opensuse.org

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openSUSE Software Management December 2008