Neal Gompa píše v So 26. 12. 2020 v 10:21 -0500:
On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Ben Greiner
> my apologies in advance if this mail reaches you up to three times, but
> in my opinion the topic is relevant and important to reach people
> subscribed to all three mailing lists.
First of all, I would like to thank Ben for the gigantic amount
of work he spent helping to make this working. Understanding our
packaging macros is feat which is not simple, and he made it
working mostly on his own. THANK YOU!
I'm still not convinced this is a good idea. This
change to how the Python stack works means that we will have
to deal with this for all the different modules, and there are
packages that deliberately don't use the "singlespec" model
because it doesn't work for them (e.g. they don't use
setuptools or they are an application).
What is the compelling reason to fully build out the stack
What Ben was saying: we have just too many stakeholders in
Tumbleweed. We market OpenSUSE as “The makers’ choice for
sysadmins, developers and desktop users.”, but that's slightly
disingenuous because each of these groups wants something
different. Let me consider these examples:
* I would love to have well-tested python3* package released on
the same day as it is released upstream. Not as the primary
interpreter of Python, but at least with minimal set of
packages (at least setuptools, pip, and pytest). That would
require to have separate Staging for it or perhaps even beta
version in Factory, and ability to keep those packages
separate from the normal primary interpreter. We cannot do
this now, obviously, because even now not all python-*
packages are well working with 3.8, where the current wave of
removing long-deprecated features started (the trend continues
with 3.9, and it will certainly continue in 3.10). We were forced
in past to patch in hurry all those packages ourselves, but
the result (even after testing with full d:l:p of packages)
was that every major release was minor disaster in Factory.
* Obviously most people don't care about version of Python
interpreter that much and they just want something reasonably
recent and reasonably stable. Python 3.8 is probably the
version for them at this moment.
* There is however also small group of people who grumble that
Factory goes too fast, and they have some good reasons why
they want the oldest upstream supported version (3.6 at the
moment). In OpenSUSE these are just minor grumblings, in SLE
there are our customers who are paying good money for having
these older versions. The same technology of using parallel
versions in OpenSUSE will be used in SLE (e.g., currently we
have fully synchronized SPEC files of python36 in SLE-12,
SLE-15, and in Tumbleweed).
* OpenSUSE is currently as far as I know the only major Linux
distribution which doesn’t have PyPy at all (the package in
has been broken for long time; anybody willing to pick up that
challenge?). With the separate parallel packages we could put
some good effort to package that as well without fear of
* I don’t know, if it would be possible, but I still dream about
having Jython as the equivalent Python interpreter (if they
ever manage to have Python 3 version).
This new version of packaging macros allows us to support (to
some extent) these different groups at the same time. Without
this substantial investment in packaging macros further
development of Python packaging in Factory would be severely
Thank again to Ben, and Merry Christmas to all OpenSUSE friends
of good will!
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According to the Franciscan priest Richard Rohr, spirituality is
not for people who are trying to avoid hell; it is for people
who have been through hell. In many ways, spirituality is about
what we do with our pain. And the truth is, if we don't
transform it, we will transmit it.
-- Al Gustafson