Hey, finally some real discussion about this :-) On 03.08.2015 04:23, Manu Gupta wrote:

First of all, the design of the landing page is awesome!!!! Kudos to everyone who worked on it.

I can only concur. I like how it turned out visually! :-)

I have always believed that the openSUSE Project is different from the openSUSE Distro. By calling openSUSE as a Linux OS, we are ignoring the fact that the we are not just a distro. One may argue that Tools describe other projects but then we come off more strongly as a distro rather than a community.

It's a matter of what you are trying to sell, and to whom. You can create a landing page that tells people who visit it the whole truth and nothing but the truth about openSUSE. A story about all the different aspects of our community, all the nitty gritty details. Or you can try to think about why people most likely come to this page and then try to satisfy this "need". And maybe, in the course of doing that, draw them in further to things that matter to us. A large percentage of the ~45K/day users who visit that page are looking for information about our distribution. All of the data (Referrer, Keywords, Exit pages) that is available to us through our tracking (piwik) supports this. So www.opensuse.org should try _very hard_ to 'sell' our distribution. Selling in this case means of course that people _WANT_ to download the iso to install it. The rest (project, community, tools, news etc.) is not really important to the visitor, only to us. Sadly neither the old page nor the new page do a very good job at that. The page in it's current form is pretty obscure what openSUSE is about (packages? distribution? tools?) and the _main_ action (download the iso!) is hidden behind a choice I can't possibly make as openSUSE beginner. Not even I myself am sure, with 15+ years contributing to openSUSE under my belt, if I should use Tumbleweed or Leap!

Second, the contributions corner. It is uninviting for non-technical contributors. There is no mention of it and it does not help at all with the issues we are already facing

It's again a matter of focus. What do we want that the majority of people that visit this page do?

I hope the people who are working on it give thought about it.

I'm not even sure that they read this list... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

First, a link to the page under discussion: http://cyntss.github.io/opensuse-landing-page/ Now, back to a proper bottom post. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

finally some real discussion about this :-)

On 03.08.2015 04:23, Manu Gupta wrote:

...

First of all, the design of the landing page is awesome!!!! Kudos to everyone who worked on it.

I can only concur. I like how it turned out visually! :-)

...

I have always believed that the openSUSE Project is different from the openSUSE Distro. By calling openSUSE as a Linux OS, we are ignoring the fact that the we are not just a distro. One may argue that Tools describe other projects but then we come off more strongly as a distro rather than a community.

It's a matter of what you are trying to sell, and to whom.

You can create a landing page that tells people who visit it the whole truth and nothing but the truth about openSUSE. A story about all the different aspects of our community, all the nitty gritty details.

Or you can try to think about why people most likely come to this page and then try to satisfy this "need". And maybe, in the course of doing that, draw them in further to things that matter to us.

A large percentage of the ~45K/day users who visit that page are looking for information about our distribution. All of the data (Referrer, Keywords, Exit pages) that is available to us through our tracking (piwik) supports this. So www.opensuse.org should try _very hard_ to 'sell' our distribution. Selling in this case means of course that people _WANT_ to download the iso to install it. The rest (project, community, tools, news etc.) is not really important to the visitor, only to us.

Sadly neither the old page nor the new page do a very good job at that. The page in it's current form is pretty obscure what openSUSE is about (packages? distribution? tools?) and the _main_ action (download the iso!) is hidden behind a choice I can't possibly make as openSUSE beginner. Not even I myself am sure, with 15+ years contributing to openSUSE under my belt, if I should use Tumbleweed or Leap!

...

Second, the contributions corner. It is uninviting for non-technical contributors. There is no mention of it and it does not help at all with the issues we are already facing

It's again a matter of focus. What do we want that the majority of people that visit this page do?

...

I hope the people who are working on it give thought about it.

I'm not even sure that they read this list...

Henne

It was good to open with a simple design, but not good to hide the fullest descriptions of Tumbleweed and Leap behind a hidden button that only appears with an interaction. It's like we expect the first time visitor to enjoy looking for treasures. Display the treasures in all their glory! The descriptions are good, feature them and then name what to download when the visitor has decided what they want. As has been said many times, Code and Hardware are not the only way to contribute to openSUSE. And, as Carlos noted, it needs to follow the accessibility guidelines. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag, 4. August 2015, 23:34:15 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 2015-08-04 22:56, PatrickD Garvey wrote:

...

First, a link to the page under discussion:

http://cyntss.github.io/opensuse-landing-page/

Without being able to point at anything specific, the german version kind of feels as if it had been done by someone who's native language is not german. That being said, the german translation of the "teaser text" for leap sounds really bad, it sounds as if openSUSE had been terminated and Leap was based on the last opensuse that ever existed. About the usability: the language selection dropdown should be at the top of the page, not at the bottom; someone landing at that page and not understanding a word is not going to scroll all the way down just to see if there was a language selection thingie somewhere. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-05 10:18, jdd wrote:

Le 04/08/2015 23:34, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

I found a new issue: In languages, instead of "Español" (Spanish), it says "Castellano" (Castilian). This is non standard.

Catalunya trick ? :-)

I hope not. The naming of the language as "castellano" is a relatively recent political decision (pushed by Catalunya and others) that has never caught with the masses, valid only for Spain, and is of course not followed by the rest of the Spanish speaking countries. It is akin to calling French Provençal. So, does openSUSE wants to enter a political nightmare by calling Spanish Castilian? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXB68kACgkQja8UbcUWM1yLXAEAnR2B0FUK6V5YgIUPOShw6HQc 2uMLSn3oQo5wePL81YcA/0PZX6W2ZCGQOrQURkOzfbE4PKFk/pyvh4soUwrDmFR1 =3Bx+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey Henne, On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

Hey,

finally some real discussion about this :-)

On 03.08.2015 04:23, Manu Gupta wrote:

...

First of all, the design of the landing page is awesome!!!! Kudos to everyone who worked on it.

I can only concur. I like how it turned out visually! :-)

...

I have always believed that the openSUSE Project is different from the openSUSE Distro. By calling openSUSE as a Linux OS, we are ignoring the fact that the we are not just a distro. One may argue that Tools describe other projects but then we come off more strongly as a distro rather than a community.

It's a matter of what you are trying to sell, and to whom.

Very well said.

You can create a landing page that tells people who visit it the whole truth and nothing but the truth about openSUSE. A story about all the different aspects of our community, all the nitty gritty details.

Or you can try to think about why people most likely come to this page and then try to satisfy this "need". And maybe, in the course of doing that, draw them in further to things that matter to us.

A large percentage of the ~45K/day users who visit that page are looking for information about our distribution. All of the data (Referrer, Keywords, Exit pages) that is available to us through our tracking (piwik) supports this. So www.opensuse.org should try _very hard_ to 'sell' our distribution. Selling in this case means of course that people _WANT_ to download the iso to install it. The rest (project, community, tools, news etc.) is not really important to the visitor, only to us.

Sadly neither the old page nor the new page do a very good job at that. The page in it's current form is pretty obscure what openSUSE is about (packages? distribution? tools?) and the _main_ action (download the iso!) is hidden behind a choice I can't possibly make as openSUSE beginner. Not even I myself am sure, with 15+ years contributing to openSUSE under my belt, if I should use Tumbleweed or Leap!

Agreed. Right now we are orienting the users towards different distributions. So, the web page tells that Tumbleweed is a fast rolling distribution and Leap is openSUSE's latest regular release version. If you read again and again, we actually do not make them exclusive for users. A better way should be to play to user's preferences. -->Do you prefer speed or Are you a developer? Use Tumbleweed --> Do you want a stable system that just works? Use Leap --> Do you want LTS? Use Evergreen On that, Evergreen is nowhere to be found. A lot of sysadmins will use it and use it. Evergreen deserves its corner on the landing page if we are talking about sysadmins and target audience. As far as I know, sometimes the latest in not the best and this is where we have opportunity to differentiate.

...

Second, the contributions corner. It is uninviting for non-technical contributors. There is no mention of it and it does not help at all with the issues we are already facing

It's again a matter of focus. What do we want that the majority of people that visit this page do?

Again, Yes but do we want to exclude non-technical contributors? By showing that we are well telling we don't need any non-technical contributions which is disrespectful of the people who worked as ambassadors, artwork contributors, organized conferences, wrote news articles, edited wiki pages, helped on documentation, translation to name a few. That being said, I also believe that if we keep on treading this path, more non-technical contributors will leave. If you click on code and read the description, it asks for technical as well as non-technical contribution. How about this - Contribute, by lending a hand and then when you click the description pops up. Instead of hardware, in Kind -> and then when you click, ask people to donate hardware. 3rd Machinery, Why it even there? Is this an openSUSE Project and deserves to be on the landing page? A quick Google shows https://github.com/SUSE/machinery It shows that it is a SUSE Project. Are we not trying to differentiate between SUSE and openSUSE. This is so much against what we are trying to work for. Fourth, Conferences? Really. Is openSUSE only about conferences. Conferences are yearly events. Now, it is good to show events on the landing page. But, is it more important than directing people towards our own infrastructure like the wiki, forums, irc, build service etc? That is a question we need to ask.

...

I hope the people who are working on it give thought about it.

I'm not even sure that they read this list...

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-06 01:34, Roman Bysh wrote:

There are a lot of entries where the latest distro is version 10x and 11x.

Well, if a machine works with 10x, it will (normally) continue working with later versions :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXCoMQACgkQja8UbcUWM1w8nwD+LoRUnttVXqb1TQ2HKsTvNW4S QeFixJ9Mjnh6y0KWHS8BAIeazXJnaTEhMOQEEvTZqkTuuVzGayFa5WLnWdIm/X+Q =hjLW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-06 03:25, Roman Bysh wrote:

On 08/05/2015 07:48 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote: On 2015-08-06 01:34, Roman Bysh wrote:

...

...

...

There are a lot of entries where the latest distro is version 10x and 11x.

Well, if a machine works with 10x, it will (normally) continue working with later versions :-)

...

Too a point :-)

I wouldn't make a recommendation like that on the forums. Especially with the latest hardware including the latest graphics cards, wifi, touchpads, UEFI and so on...

Eumm... you are getting it wrong. If some one logs an entry that the machine he buys on 2007 runs 10.1 perfectly, it is very probable that the same machine will continue working correctly with later openSUSE releases. Nowhere can it be inferred that it is the latest hardware. It is 2007 vintage hardware, today. That is the meaning of what I wrote. There is no need for people to update the old entries they wrote about their hardware working with whatever old release. What there is need is that when they try any new hardware, they add entries for that hardware. Hopefully, it will be some years till I create an entry in there. Unless I get into big money! - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXCvEAACgkQja8UbcUWM1yR2AD/Tw66KKKC7BtH0VIqhhNkT8Xv lgvCHH2fAPteu2QKPpUA/3ZiBLgIRr/PvQ6AvHtoDPfiH0vQ0DLL3wc3yHK5msr/ =7wZ8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le 06/08/2015 04:08, Roman Bysh a écrit :

The problem is getting people to navigate to that section and adding their hardware.

the problem is also than editing wiki tables is really unfriendly. We badly need a form system to enter the datas (that said I didn't go recently ti the page) thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/06/2015 08:45 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2015-08-06 11:13, jdd wrote:

...

the problem is also than editing wiki tables is really unfriendly. We badly need a form system to enter the datas (that said I didn't go recently ti the page)

Yes, it is akin to coding.

- -- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)

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Maybe we can use a template created by LibreOffice Calc to fill out it? Or what about the hardware info file created by Yast. Can it be uploaded and parsed? -- Cheers! Roman ICQ: 551368250 ============== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/06/2015 02:45 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-08-06 20:33, Roman Bysh wrote:

...

On 08/06/2015 08:45 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote: On 2015-08-06 11:13, jdd wrote:

...

...

...

the problem is also than editing wiki tables is really unfriendly. We badly need a form system to enter the datas (that said I didn't go recently ti the page)

Yes, it is akin to coding.

...

Maybe we can use a template created by LibreOffice Calc to fill out it?

There will be collisions.

Another possibility is a shared document in google. I think it is google: several people can edit it at once.

An easier method would be and individual form that is filled, then sent. Software parses the form, and adds the data to a table.

...

Or what about the hardware info file created by Yast. Can it be uploaded and parsed?

There was an effort that died, cross distro, which automatically collected hardware information in a viewable database. I don't remember the name, nor why it died.

Yes. I like the idea of a shared document that can be parsed and added to a table. The cross distro hardware collection was called smolt. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 06.08.2015 01:34, Roman Bysh wrote:

We need a new way of getting users motivated in participating on adding their laptops, PCs, mobos etc.. to this section.

What does this have to do with the discussion about the landing page? Please start your own thread for it... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le 07/08/2015 11:18, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :

Choices choices choices. Putting choices in front of people is _very_ bad for conversions. The more options people have, the more likely they will just close the page...

Just make a sensible default and sell hard what most people want to have anyway: A Linux OS. Then when you have their general interest in your OS you can offer special interest releases like Tumbleweed, Evergreen or Li-Fe. 95% of what all our releases offer is the same anyway!

I support that fully. Go for "Leap"

No, we want to encourage _all_ contributions so we have to 'sell' contributing itself. Which means telling people why contributing is a good thing, why they should best contribute to OUR project, what benefits contributing brings to their life. You can give them the choice of what to do once you have convinced them to try it. Same as with installing the distribution...

I support that fully... "contribute to a friendly project, be part of the adventure, be the one who do things, dot not let the other let you back!" we shuld have some motto like this on the landing page together with Leap. thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Mathias Homann wrote:

Am Dienstag, 4. August 2015, 23:34:15 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2015-08-04 22:56, PatrickD Garvey wrote:

...

First, a link to the page under discussion:

http://cyntss.github.io/opensuse-landing-page/

Without being able to point at anything specific, the german version kind of feels as if it had been done by someone who's native language is not german.

I agree, language wise that page leaves a lot to be desired, but that is probably not a priority atm.

About the usability: the language selection dropdown should be at the top of the page, not at the bottom;

+1 -- Per Jessen, Zürich (25.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:18 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

Moin,

On 05.08.2015 22:24, Manu Gupta wrote:

...

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

On 03.08.2015 04:23, Manu Gupta wrote:

A large percentage of the ~45K/day users who visit that page are looking for information about our distribution.

[...]

...

...

Sadly neither the old page nor the new page do a very good job at that.

A better way should be to play to user's preferences. -->Do you prefer speed or Are you a developer? Use Tumbleweed --> Do you want a stable system that just works? Use Leap --> Do you want LTS? Use Evergreen

Choices choices choices. Putting choices in front of people is _very_ bad for conversions. The more options people have, the more likely they will just close the page...

Just make a sensible default and sell hard what most people want to have anyway: A Linux OS. Then when you have their general interest in your OS you can offer special interest releases like Tumbleweed, Evergreen or Li-Fe. 95% of what all our releases offer is the same anyway!

Ok.. Agreed!!!

...

...

...

Second, the contributions corner. It is uninviting for non-technical contributors. There is no mention of it and it does not help at all with the issues we are already facing

It's again a matter of focus. What do we want that the majority of people that visit this page do?

Again, Yes but do we want to exclude non-technical contributors?

No, we want to encourage _all_ contributions so we have to 'sell' contributing itself. Which means telling people why contributing is a good thing, why they should best contribute to OUR project, what benefits contributing brings to their life. You can give them the choice of what to do once you have convinced them to try it. Same as with installing the distribution...

Great, this makes so much more sense!!! However, when we are trying to answer this question, we are no different than other open source projects. I am not really sure what distinguishes us from a new comer's perspective. However, I think we can objectively show the different areas where a new contributor can contribute towards. In short, this is what I mean, you can contribute to these areas in our projects which is what the current page but in a very limited scope. Contribute Section Can be divided something like -> Code -> Write (articles) -> Paint (posters / artwork) -> Spread (the word) -> Build (packages) -> Donate (hardware) -> Localize (openSUSE) This is a small set to begin with. But makes the point come across.

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

Hey,

On 10.08.2015 17:51, Manu Gupta wrote:

...

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:18 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

On 05.08.2015 22:24, Manu Gupta wrote:

...

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

On 03.08.2015 04:23, Manu Gupta wrote:

...

Second, the contributions corner. It is uninviting for non-technical contributors. There is no mention of it and it does not help at all with the issues we are already facing

It's again a matter of focus. What do we want that the majority of people that visit this page do?

Again, Yes but do we want to exclude non-technical contributors?

No, we want to encourage _all_ contributions so we have to 'sell' contributing itself.

Great, this makes so much more sense!!! However, when we are trying to answer this question, we are no different than other open source projects. I am not really sure what distinguishes us from a new comer's perspective.

For code/tools for instance we very much focus on cross-distribution, unlike all the other competitors. For packaging we very much focus on automatic quality checks rather than rules and supervision. In general we are trying to avoid hierarchy as much as possible. I'm sure we can work out a lot of important differences for contributing to openSUSE.

Hmm, Working out the important differences is really important. "instead of Rules & Supervision" may actually be good or bad in its own sense, however, I agree. Another one is that it is really easy to initiate at openSUSE which might be really difficult in other project. If we can work out on a couple more of these differences, we can actually reword it to make it presentable for the landing page.

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson

-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am 22.08.2015 um 12:05 schrieb Karl Ove Hufthammer:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

...

About the usability: the language selection dropdown should be at the top of the page, not at the bottom; +1 Yes, I said that the first time I saw it. Shouldn’t the page instead just use the standard language negotiation feature of the browser/HTTP to show the page in the user’s preferred language automatically?

Yes and no. what it *should* do is this: - on first visit: check the browsers accept languages settings to determine the preferred language, and use that as the default - present the language dropdown at the *TOP* of the page - whatever the user chooses gets stored in a cookie. - on further visits: check the cookie first. if it exists, use its value, otherwise (see above). Cheers MH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org