[opensuse-project] openFATE feature #307495: GNOME default
Hello all, as it now seems to be practice th on default desktop environment and other politicking are introduced by majority votes on openSUSE's feature request portal, we were bound to create an option for GNOME users to vote for their favorite desktop on openFATE. Here it is: #307495: GNOME default For those of us who want to make the only sane choice and vote against having any desktop environment default, I have created: #307496: return to having no default desktop environment Greets, Chris -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-----Original Message----- From: Christian Jäger [mailto:christian.jaeger@rub.de] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:59 AM To: opensuse-project@opensuse.org Subject: [opensuse-project] openFATE feature #307495: GNOME default
For those of us who want to make the only sane choice and vote against having any desktop environment default, I have created:
#307496: return to having no default desktop environment
Voted ;-) -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Christian Jäger [mailto:christian.jaeger@rub.de] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:59 AM To: opensuse-project@opensuse.org Subject: [opensuse-project] openFATE feature #307495: GNOME default
For those of us who want to make the only sane choice and vote against having any desktop environment default, I have created:
#307496: return to having no default desktop environment
Voted ;-)
As I stated in the previous message...... Zeus would be pleased! :-) BC -- Insanity is only a state of mind. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
For those of us who want to make the only sane choice and vote against having any desktop environment default, I have created:
#307496: return to having no default desktop environment
Voted ;-)
I really don't care what the default desktop is, as I can select whatever I want during the install. So can everyone else on this list. I would argue very strongly for having a default, so new users have a simple install. New users do not have enough information during the install process to make an informed choice. Forcing them to make what is, in effect, a random choice will not benefit anyone. It's only new users who are really affected by the default, provided alternatives can be chosen. Our focus should be on attracting and keeping the largest community of users on (openSuSE) Linux. This beggar-my-neighbour approach of "what's good for KDE is bad for Gnome" (and vice-versa) which I'm receiving through these discussions is damaging to all our best interests. For new users the best default is the one which gives the easiest transition from the OS they're accustomed to. There is a sensible discussion here about which of KDE & Gnome will be more familiar and easier to learn for people used to Windows. After new users have accepted Linux we can expand their vision and offer different desktops. David p.s. this line of argument also strongly supports the need to collect more statistics about users rather than installs, including what OSes they are most familiar / comfortable with. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Administrator wrote: [pruned] Oh no! Not another "*Administrator*"! A "Moderator" perhaps, but an "Administrator"?! What exactly are you "administering" here? BC -- Great Man reaches complete understianding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Nothing. I have a login + email address solely for admin+maintenance stuff. This is it. Unfortunately some email clients don't seem to add my name to the outgoing emails. David -- D Hodgson P: 020 71 833 722 M: 07984 069 846 F: 0845 86 75 74 1 E: david@different-perspectives.com On Monday 24 Aug 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:
Administrator wrote:
[pruned]
Oh no! Not another "*Administrator*"!
A "Moderator" perhaps, but an "Administrator"?!
What exactly are you "administering" here?
BC
-- Great Man reaches complete understianding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details."
Confucius
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Administrator wrote:
Nothing. I have a login + email address solely for admin+maintenance stuff. This is it.
Unfortunately some email clients don't seem to add my name to the outgoing emails.
David
OK, and all the best in your new "job" :-) . BC -- Great Man reaches complete understianding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Christian Jäger wrote:
Hello all,
as it now seems to be practice th on default desktop environment and other politicking are introduced by majority votes on openSUSE's feature request portal, we were bound to create an option for GNOME users to vote for their favorite desktop on openFATE.
Here it is: #307495: GNOME default
For those of us who want to make the only sane choice and vote against having any desktop environment default, I have created:
#307496: return to having no default desktop environment
Greets, Chris
The Pandora's Box has been opened......... :-D . BC -- Insanity is only a state of mind. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:16 AM, Basil Chupin<blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
The Pandora's Box has been opened......... :-D
So let's close it. (I'm ignoring the parallel to the myth here, because everyone knows once you open Pandora's box...) Folks - the decision is not one that makes everyone happy. We know this. It's *impossible* to make a decision that will satisfy everyone in this discussion. But, please -- we all have better things to do than squabble over this. We have a release coming up in November that can use some testing love, for example -- and arguing over a default desktop isn't going to make 11.2 even a tiny bit better. We've already lost a ridiculous amount of time on this feature and probably driven a number of people off the -project mailing list because of the huge amount of noise related to this issue. Thanks, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net> openSUSE Community Manager: http://zonker.opensuse.org Blogs: http://blogs.zdnet.com/community | http://www.dissociatedpress.net Twitter: jzb | Identica: jzb http://identi.ca/group/opensuse/members -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Joe I do think that users need a choice, and a default is required, but whatever default that needs to be made needs to occur based on empirical data. That's why I am suggesting statistics gathering as a way to help you arrive at that decision, and to continue to inject valuable data into the deicision making process. Until that data is collected and fully understood, I suggest that the "delault" choice be generated at random on each installation, with the first and second place positioning also generated at random. Psychologically I am not sure what the behavior of the user will be if KDE is always first on the list and GNOME is always second, regardless of which one is selected by default. On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier<jzb@zonker.net> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:16 AM, Basil Chupin<blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
The Pandora's Box has been opened......... :-D
So let's close it. (I'm ignoring the parallel to the myth here, because everyone knows once you open Pandora's box...)
Folks - the decision is not one that makes everyone happy. We know this. It's *impossible* to make a decision that will satisfy everyone in this discussion.
But, please -- we all have better things to do than squabble over this. We have a release coming up in November that can use some testing love, for example -- and arguing over a default desktop isn't going to make 11.2 even a tiny bit better. We've already lost a ridiculous amount of time on this feature and probably driven a number of people off the -project mailing list because of the huge amount of noise related to this issue.
Thanks,
Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net> openSUSE Community Manager: http://zonker.opensuse.org Blogs: http://blogs.zdnet.com/community | http://www.dissociatedpress.net Twitter: jzb | Identica: jzb http://identi.ca/group/opensuse/members -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-- Jason Perlow jperlow@gmail.com (201)735-5838 Twitter: http://twitter.com/jperlow Technology Columnist, ZDNet Tech Broiler (http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow) Blogger/Podcaster, Off The Broiler (http://www.offthebroiler.com) LinkedIn Public Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonperlow -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Jason Perlow<jperlow@gmail.com> wrote:
Joe I do think that users need a choice, and a default is required, but whatever default that needs to be made needs to occur based on empirical data. That's why I am suggesting statistics gathering as a way to help you arrive at that decision, and to continue to inject valuable data into the deicision making process.
I don't object to stats, at all :-) Love 'em. And would like to see more accurate data. The decision we have now was made with the most recent and accurate data we have at hand so far. Is it as recent and accurate as I'd like? No. But I think that it's reflective of the current user base we have. (i.e., I don't think we've seen a massive shift away from KDE since 11.0.)
Until that data is collected and fully understood, I suggest that the "delault" choice be generated at random on each installation, with the first and second place positioning also generated at random. Psychologically I am not sure what the behavior of the user will be if KDE is always first on the list and GNOME is always second, regardless of which one is selected by default.
Random was discussed, I think, but rejected as being difficult to implement and also a nightmare to document. ("Now you may see the desktop in figure 1 or the desktop in figure 2 depending on the luck of the draw...") I know people are very emotional and passionate about this issue, but I really think we need to accept Michael's decision for the time being as the discussion and time being spent on proposals and discussion of this issue are far more distracting than just living with a default for a release or two that may not reflect everyone's preference. Best, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net> openSUSE Community Manager: http://zonker.opensuse.org Blogs: http://blogs.zdnet.com/community | http://www.dissociatedpress.net Twitter: jzb | Identica: jzb http://identi.ca/group/opensuse/members -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
What do we know about KDE 4.x's base memory and other resource requirements compared to GNOME's? Assuming we have two identical systems, both with 2GB of RAM and identical dual core CPUs, which will perform better, KDE or GNOME? On 1GB of RAM with a single core? Maybe you might want the installer to do that, and have it say why. I've always felt that KDE 4 was much more resource intensive than a default GNOME as it is implemented in distros like Ubuntu or even in SLE/Opensuse. My own systems have a lot of memory and CPU horsepower but not every end user will have a very powerful machine. Also laptops will behave differently than desktops because of traditionally underpowered CPUs and disk I/O. On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier<jzb@zonker.net> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Jason Perlow<jperlow@gmail.com> wrote:
Joe I do think that users need a choice, and a default is required, but whatever default that needs to be made needs to occur based on empirical data. That's why I am suggesting statistics gathering as a way to help you arrive at that decision, and to continue to inject valuable data into the deicision making process.
I don't object to stats, at all :-) Love 'em. And would like to see more accurate data. The decision we have now was made with the most recent and accurate data we have at hand so far.
Is it as recent and accurate as I'd like? No. But I think that it's reflective of the current user base we have. (i.e., I don't think we've seen a massive shift away from KDE since 11.0.)
Until that data is collected and fully understood, I suggest that the "delault" choice be generated at random on each installation, with the first and second place positioning also generated at random. Psychologically I am not sure what the behavior of the user will be if KDE is always first on the list and GNOME is always second, regardless of which one is selected by default.
Random was discussed, I think, but rejected as being difficult to implement and also a nightmare to document. ("Now you may see the desktop in figure 1 or the desktop in figure 2 depending on the luck of the draw...")
I know people are very emotional and passionate about this issue, but I really think we need to accept Michael's decision for the time being as the discussion and time being spent on proposals and discussion of this issue are far more distracting than just living with a default for a release or two that may not reflect everyone's preference.
Best,
Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net> openSUSE Community Manager: http://zonker.opensuse.org Blogs: http://blogs.zdnet.com/community | http://www.dissociatedpress.net Twitter: jzb | Identica: jzb http://identi.ca/group/opensuse/members
-- Jason Perlow jperlow@gmail.com (201)735-5838 Twitter: http://twitter.com/jperlow Technology Columnist, ZDNet Tech Broiler (http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow) Blogger/Podcaster, Off The Broiler (http://www.offthebroiler.com) LinkedIn Public Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonperlow Sent from Tenafly, New Jersey, United States -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Heya, This has been tried to cover extensivly in multiple tests (google it) and they often come to different conclusions, but alot look reasonable, personal feeling seems to play in here. Anyways, the current point is the one on top is the most popular, kde is the most popular in opensuse at this time, this can be reevaluated once there is newer data. In case gnome manages to close the gap a new discussion sure will breakout, maybe livecds will be more popular then so the issue might not be that political anymore. But still, let's rest it for now, in broad daylight not much changed for most regular opensuse users, there are other issues worth spending time on =) Karsten Am Montag, 24. August 2009 15:42:15 schrieb Jason Perlow:
What do we know about KDE 4.x's base memory and other resource requirements compared to GNOME's?
Assuming we have two identical systems, both with 2GB of RAM and identical dual core CPUs, which will perform better, KDE or GNOME? On 1GB of RAM with a single core?
Maybe you might want the installer to do that, and have it say why. I've always felt that KDE 4 was much more resource intensive than a default GNOME as it is implemented in distros like Ubuntu or even in SLE/Opensuse. My own systems have a lot of memory and CPU horsepower but not every end user will have a very powerful machine. Also laptops will behave differently than desktops because of traditionally underpowered CPUs and disk I/O.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier<jzb@zonker.net> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Jason Perlow<jperlow@gmail.com> wrote:
Joe I do think that users need a choice, and a default is required, but whatever default that needs to be made needs to occur based on empirical data. That's why I am suggesting statistics gathering as a way to help you arrive at that decision, and to continue to inject valuable data into the deicision making process.
I don't object to stats, at all :-) Love 'em. And would like to see more accurate data. The decision we have now was made with the most recent and accurate data we have at hand so far.
Is it as recent and accurate as I'd like? No. But I think that it's reflective of the current user base we have. (i.e., I don't think we've seen a massive shift away from KDE since 11.0.)
Until that data is collected and fully understood, I suggest that the "delault" choice be generated at random on each installation, with the first and second place positioning also generated at random. Psychologically I am not sure what the behavior of the user will be if KDE is always first on the list and GNOME is always second, regardless of which one is selected by default.
Random was discussed, I think, but rejected as being difficult to implement and also a nightmare to document. ("Now you may see the desktop in figure 1 or the desktop in figure 2 depending on the luck of the draw...")
I know people are very emotional and passionate about this issue, but I really think we need to accept Michael's decision for the time being as the discussion and time being spent on proposals and discussion of this issue are far more distracting than just living with a default for a release or two that may not reflect everyone's preference.
Best,
Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net> openSUSE Community Manager: http://zonker.opensuse.org Blogs: http://blogs.zdnet.com/community | http://www.dissociatedpress.net Twitter: jzb | Identica: jzb http://identi.ca/group/opensuse/members
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
I really think we need to accept Michael's decision for the time being as the discussion and time being spent on proposals and discussion of this issue are far more distracting than just living with a default for a release or two that may not reflect everyone's preference.
I'd agree strongly, and suggest we do something for 11.3 about the two outstanding issues: 1) What are the criteria for choosing the default desktop? Who is materially affected and what is the effect on openSuSE of the decision? 2) Collecting the statistics necessary to make the default an objective decision rather than subjective. I've create an openFATE entry 307499 for the discussion and contributions surrounding the first issue. The second needs to follow on when the first is settled. David -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, den 24.08.2009, 08:26 -0400 schrieb Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier:
But, please -- we all have better things to do than squabble over this. We have a release coming up in November that can use some testing love, for example
I for one don't feel like testing ist, anymore. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 8/24/2009 at 06:26 AM, "Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier" <jzb@zonker.net> wrote: But, please -- we all have better things to do than squabble over this. We have a release coming up in November that can use some testing love, for example -- and arguing over a default desktop isn't going to make 11.2 even a tiny bit better. We've already lost a ridiculous amount of time on this feature and probably driven a number of people off the -project mailing list because of the huge amount of noise related to this issue.
If that is truly the case then that does that say about the decision that was made. Doesn't that mean it would have been better to have left things as they were if we feel like this whole discussion and decision was a loss of time? Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
If that is truly the case then that does that say about the decision that was made. Doesn't that mean it would have been better to have left things as they were if we feel like this whole discussion and decision was a loss of time?
Unfortunately this is a common tactic in politics called filibustering - "debating" something at such length that your opponents either run out of time or lose the will to continue. The risk of your suggestion is that any proposal can then be blocked by a small group adopting similar tactics. Having a default was and is sensible. The sound and fury was a product of an unaddressed underlying grievance in a fairly small group of people. That grievance is now, hopefully, in the light and can be discussed directly rather than by proxy through such things as "what is the best default DE for openSuSE". The Novell team's stated commitment to supporting both KDE & Gnome in SLED / openSuSE is as clear as any realistic statement can be. David -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 24 August 2009 17:22:19 Joe Harmon wrote:
On 8/24/2009 at 06:26 AM, "Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier" <jzb@zonker.net> wrote:
But, please -- we all have better things to do than squabble over this. We have a release coming up in November that can use some testing love, for example -- and arguing over a default desktop isn't going to make 11.2 even a tiny bit better. We've already lost a ridiculous amount of time on this feature and probably driven a number of people off the -project mailing list because of the huge amount of noise related to this issue.
If that is truly the case then that does that say about the decision that was made. Doesn't that mean it would have been better to have left things as they were if we feel like this whole discussion and decision was a loss of time?
Just because you're wasting time re-discussing it now doesn't reduce the feature to a "loss of time". But you can make it less of a net benefit to openSUSE by tying up contributors' time in chewing it over again with you. Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 18:05 +0200, Will Stephenson wrote:
Just because you're wasting time re-discussing it now doesn't reduce the feature to a "loss of time". But you can make it less of a net benefit to openSUSE by tying up contributors' time in chewing it over again with you.
Will
So now that the decision's been made, we can't voice our arguments that the decision was wrong and was made wrong? The waste of time was started by a minority of KDE contributors who, knowing our history with desktops and that it's an extremely sensitive issue that we've pretty much solved by not suggesting one or the other, decided to open Pandora's Box, to use an earlier quote, and distract the community what we should be doing right now, and that is making 11.2 awesome, *not* using it to make political statements in favor of one desktop. -- Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy openSUSE Project Member www.twitter.com/KevinDupuy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 26 August 2009 04:54:44 Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy wrote:
So now that the decision's been made, we can't voice our arguments that the decision was wrong and was made wrong? The waste of time was started by a minority of KDE contributors who, knowing our history with desktops and that it's an extremely sensitive issue that we've pretty much solved by not suggesting one or the other, decided to open Pandora's Box, to use an earlier quote, and distract the community what we should be doing right now, and that is making 11.2 awesome, *not* using it to make political statements in favor of one desktop.
Since you enjoy earlier quotes, I suggest that you re-read the #306967 thread and familiarise yourself with the actual reasons given by its supporters, rather than misrepresenting the most demanded feature ever as 'a waste of time', and painting a distrust of where the distribution is headed among the majority of our users as 'pretty much solved'. Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 09:22 -0600, Joe Harmon wrote:
On 8/24/2009 at 06:26 AM, "Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier" <jzb@zonker.net> wrote: But, please -- we all have better things to do than squabble over this. We have a release coming up in November that can use some testing love, for example -- and arguing over a default desktop isn't going to make 11.2 even a tiny bit better. We've already lost a ridiculous amount of time on this feature and probably driven a number of people off the -project mailing list because of the huge amount of noise related to this issue.
If that is truly the case then that does that say about the decision that was made. Doesn't that mean it would have been better to have left things as they were if we feel like this whole discussion and decision was a loss of time?
+1 The time that was lost and that will continue to be lost until this is solved using a common sense approach (NOT wisdom of the mob and one person's decision) is the responsibility of those who brought this decision up when openSUSE has long had the best comprimise approach we can have while not alienating one half of the community. I disagree about using openFATE to discuss this. This is much more of a community decision than a technical one. In fact, it's political discussions like this that I thought the community-elected Board was supposed to get involved with, instead of one person deciding, no matter how much I respect that person's work. -- Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy openSUSE Project Member www.twitter.com/KevinDupuy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 24. August 2009 11:58:31 schrieb Christian Jäger:
as it now seems to be practice th on default desktop environment and other politicking are introduced by majority votes on openSUSE's feature request portal, we were bound to create an option for GNOME users to vote for their favorite desktop on openFATE.
Who is "we"? Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Sven Burmeister<sven.burmeister@gmx.net> wrote:
Am Montag, 24. August 2009 11:58:31 schrieb Christian Jäger:
as it now seems to be practice th on default desktop environment and other politicking are introduced by majority votes on openSUSE's feature request portal, we were bound to create an option for GNOME users to vote for their favorite desktop on openFATE.
Who is "we"?
for now, maybe : Christian Jager, Ratislav Krupansk, and me :-) -- Best Regards, Masim "Vavai" Sugianto /************************************************************/ Blog (ID) : http://www.vavai.com/blog Blog (EN) : http://www.vavai.net Community : http://www.opensuse.or.id /************************************************************/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-----Original Message----- From: Masim "Vavai" Sugianto [mailto:vavai@vavai.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:06 AM To: Sven Burmeister Cc: opensuse-project@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-project] openFATE feature #307495: GNOME default
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Sven Burmeister<sven.burmeister@gmx.net> wrote:
Am Montag, 24. August 2009 11:58:31 schrieb Christian Jäger:
as it now seems to be practice th on default desktop environment and other politicking are introduced by majority votes on openSUSE's feature request portal, we were bound to create an option for GNOME users to vote for their favorite desktop on openFATE.
Who is "we"?
for now, maybe : Christian Jager, Ratislav Krupansk, and me :-)
Let me explain, i support only #307496: return to having no default desktop environment, not #307495. -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Christian Jäger wrote:
as it now seems to be practice th on default desktop environment and other politicking are introduced by majority votes on openSUSE's feature request portal
You completely misunderstood the process. And as you did you can close this feature again because it serves no other purpose then mocking the decision. Are you like 12 or something? :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Henne, you might have overlooked it, but these feature requests are filed for openSUSE 11.3, not 11.2. It was promised that the 'KDE default' decision for openSUSE 11.2 would not mean that openSUSE would default KDE for all eternity but that GNOME would have a chance to become defaulted when it became more popular in the future. So, as KDE proponents pointed to the popularity of their 'feature request' in order to get their way in 11.2, why aren't GNOME users allowed to vote for their desktop for 11.3? Why have you permitted that 'KDE default' feature request for 11.2 but rejected the 'GNOME default' request on day 1? Doesn't seem like equal treatment to me... Please note that in my mind openFATE is not at all meant for that kind of discussion and that in my mind the KDE request should have been rejected outright. But when it came to KDE, it seemed alright to have a popularity vote; why isn't it alright for GNOME, one could wonder. Am Montag, den 24.08.2009, 11:11 +0200 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
Hi,
Christian Jäger wrote:
as it now seems to be practice th on default desktop environment and other politicking are introduced by majority votes on openSUSE's feature request portal
You completely misunderstood the process. And as you did you can close this feature again because it serves no other purpose then mocking the decision.
Are you like 12 or something? :)
Henne
-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Christian Jäger wrote:
Am Montag, den 24.08.2009, 11:11 +0200 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
Christian Jäger wrote:
as it now seems to be practice th on default desktop environment and other politicking are introduced by majority votes on openSUSE's feature request portal
You completely misunderstood the process. And as you did you can close this feature again because it serves no other purpose then mocking the decision.
Henne, you might have overlooked it, but these feature requests are filed for openSUSE 11.3, not 11.2.
I did not :)
So, as KDE proponents pointed to the popularity of their 'feature request' in order to get their way in 11.2, why aren't GNOME users allowed to vote for their desktop for 11.3?
I told you now 2 times, let me tell you again. It is not about the popularity of the feature. Let me quote the openFATE documentation: "Votes on a feature will help to indicate the importance of a feature but aren't the sole source to make a decision." The way we make decision at the moment is pretty clear: If there is no consensus, the openSUSE Productmanager decides. Michl decided this now based on all arguments brought up. The feature holds no new arguments so Michl won't decide differently. I completely understand that you don't agree with the decision. And thats ok. It is not ok to not accept the decision. The decision by the responsible person is the step where this process has to stop. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Il lunedì 24 agosto 2009, Christian Jäger scrisse:
Henne, you might have overlooked it, but these feature requests are filed for openSUSE 11.3, not 11.2.
It was promised that the 'KDE default' decision for openSUSE 11.2 would not mean that openSUSE would default KDE for all eternity but that GNOME would have a chance to become defaulted when it became more popular in the future. _IF_ Gnome will be more popular/used.. why not lxde/icewm/$other. Maybe one day one of them will be the most popular/used..
Do you/we want an openFate entry for each DE ?! I hope not because it would be a silly game. If one day there will be another most popular/used DE, I 'm sure that default selection will change too. So I really don't see why do yuo want to do this now.. Bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Daniele<kailed@kailed.net> wrote:
Il lunedì 24 agosto 2009, Christian Jäger scrisse:
Henne, you might have overlooked it, but these feature requests are filed for openSUSE 11.3, not 11.2.
It was promised that the 'KDE default' decision for openSUSE 11.2 would not mean that openSUSE would default KDE for all eternity but that GNOME would have a chance to become defaulted when it became more popular in the future. _IF_ Gnome will be more popular/used.. why not lxde/icewm/$other. Maybe one day one of them will be the most popular/used..
Do you/we want an openFate entry for each DE ?! I hope not because it would be a silly game.
If one day there will be another most popular/used DE, I 'm sure that default selection will change too. So I really don't see why do yuo want to do this now.. Bye.
If you are comparing Gnome to iceWM,lxde, etc. it shows your ignorance, imnsho. My useless contribution to the mindless flame ends here :-) -- Sankar P http://psankar.blogspot.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Il lunedì 24 agosto 2009, Sankar P scrisse: ...
If you are comparing Gnome to iceWM,lxde, etc. it shows your ignorance, imnsho. No I'm not doing this, only to say that default selection is based on popularity (mostly..) so today it's clearly KDE. Tomorrow we'll see... I think that now we have some sort of guidelines, so follow them.. Bye.
-- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (15)
-
Administrator -
Basil Chupin -
Christian Jäger -
Daniele -
Henne Vogelsang -
Jason Perlow -
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier -
Joe Harmon -
Karsten König -
Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy -
Masim "Vavai" Sugianto -
Rastislav Krupanský -
Sankar P -
Sven Burmeister -
Will Stephenson