[opensuse-project] survey draft for 3rd party software on openSUSE
Hi, we created a survey -still draft version- with the goal to get better knowledge about the usage of proprietary 3rd party sofware we ship with some versions of openSUSE. Based on the survey we'd like to decide about what we ship in future versions of openSUSE regarding proprietary software. Please have a look at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/Users/33889499/Surveys/413433852485/CC07C39C-761F-4059-8A51-5DAE03B24ACE.asp?U=413433852485&DO_NOT_COPY_THIS_LINK and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback. Best Michael -- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nuremberg SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 14 May 2007 06:25:33 pm Michael Loeffler wrote:
and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
* acroread should stay because it's still the reference rendering software for .pdf. Although I am very satisfied with KPDF that's the default application which opens .pdf * agfa-fonts have equal metric to MS fonts, if I have the information correctly, so they're needed. Note that Red Hat released a set of GPL fonts with equivalent metric to MS. They're called the liberation fonts As a general rule, the more prepackaged software, the better. If SUSE doesn't have resources to package some of the not-so-widely-used proprietary software, how about the respective vendors start doing that themselves using the nice SUSE build service? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Silviu Marin-Caea <silviu_marin-caea@fieldinsights.ro> writes:
On Monday 14 May 2007 06:25:33 pm Michael Loeffler wrote:
and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
* acroread should stay because it's still the reference rendering software for .pdf. Although I am very satisfied with KPDF that's the default application which opens .pdf
* agfa-fonts have equal metric to MS fonts, if I have the information correctly, so they're needed. Note that Red Hat released a set of GPL fonts with equivalent metric to MS. They're called the liberation fonts
Is there any problem asking everybody for these? We added these to be complete...
As a general rule, the more prepackaged software, the better. If SUSE doesn't have resources to package some of the not-so-widely-used proprietary software, how about the respective vendors start doing that themselves using the nice SUSE build service?
The build service is open source only. The feeling we have is that we spend work on some packages that nobody needs - but if people use it... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Monday 14 May 2007 18:38:34 wrote Silviu Marin-Caea:
On Monday 14 May 2007 06:25:33 pm Michael Loeffler wrote:
and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
* acroread should stay because it's still the reference rendering software for .pdf. Although I am very satisfied with KPDF that's the default application which opens .pdf
* agfa-fonts have equal metric to MS fonts, if I have the information correctly, so they're needed. Note that Red Hat released a set of GPL fonts with equivalent metric to MS. They're called the liberation fonts
As a general rule, the more prepackaged software, the better. If SUSE doesn't have resources to package some of the not-so-widely-used proprietary software, how about the respective vendors start doing that themselves using the nice SUSE build service?
atm we have the clear policy to allow only OSI approved licenses within the build service. We could change this of course, I have the fear that mixed source packages would damage the open source character of our project. Any opinions about this ? bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N�rnberg) email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, May 15, 2007 12:45 am, Adrian Schröter wrote:
On Monday 14 May 2007 18:38:34 wrote Silviu Marin-Caea:
On Monday 14 May 2007 06:25:33 pm Michael Loeffler wrote:
and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
* acroread should stay because it's still the reference rendering software for .pdf. Although I am very satisfied with KPDF that's the default application which opens .pdf
* agfa-fonts have equal metric to MS fonts, if I have the information correctly, so they're needed. Note that Red Hat released a set of GPL fonts with equivalent metric to MS. They're called the liberation fonts
As a general rule, the more prepackaged software, the better. If SUSE doesn't have resources to package some of the not-so-widely-used proprietary software, how about the respective vendors start doing that themselves using the nice SUSE build service?
atm we have the clear policy to allow only OSI approved licenses within the build service. We could change this of course, I have the fear that mixed source packages would damage the open source character of our project.
Any opinions about this ?
Adding non OSI-licenced software would certainly "change" the OSS character of your project. I would refrain from using the word, "damage", in describing the changes. I understand the hesitation to add non OSS software to the mix. However, it may be a fundemental shift in philosophy that may be needed. SUSE only has the ability to function - in my opinion - because of the nice integration with software packages, the excellent management tool (YaST) not present on other distros (http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/56), and the easy way to add multimedia via Guru and/or Packman. Add in "official" Novell-purchased licenses for multimedia and I'd be willing to bet people will come. I've heard often that people purchase Xandros and Linspire simply because of their ability to "do" multimedia. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 15/05/07 05:09 -0700, Kai Ponte wrote:
SUSE only has the ability to function - in my opinion - because of the nice integration with software packages, the excellent management tool (YaST) not present on other distros (http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/56), and the easy way to add multimedia via Guru and/or Packman.
Add in "official" Novell-purchased licenses for multimedia and I'd be willing to bet people will come. I've heard often that people purchase Xandros and Linspire simply because of their ability to "do" multimedia.
Novell-purchased licenses are going to have to be recouped from the users and I think it's important not to underestimate the attraction of free (as in beer) software. I for one would rather spend 20 minutes getting my sources together than having to pay for, for eg, an mp3 license. Especially as I live in Europe! ;-) Craig --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, May 15, 2007 7:24 am, Craig Millar wrote:
On 15/05/07 05:09 -0700, Kai Ponte wrote:
SUSE only has the ability to function - in my opinion - because of the nice integration with software packages, the excellent management tool (YaST) not present on other distros (http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/56), and the easy way to add multimedia via Guru and/or Packman.
Add in "official" Novell-purchased licenses for multimedia and I'd be willing to bet people will come. I've heard often that people purchase Xandros and Linspire simply because of their ability to "do" multimedia.
Novell-purchased licenses are going to have to be recouped from the users
That is possible. I'm just stating what I feel would be an advantage to the change in mindset.
and I think it's important not to underestimate the attraction of free (as in beer) software. I for one would rather spend 20 minutes getting my sources together than having to pay for, for eg, an mp3 license. Especially as I live in Europe! ;-)
It may be the case that many countries are not bound by the same stupid laws we are here - in terms of the loony idea that software can be patented. What I like about Linspire's model is that you can "purchase" the codecs and whatnot fairly easily. Or - if you're handy enough - you can roll your own. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 10:45:19 am Adrian Schröter wrote:
atm we have the clear policy to allow only OSI approved licenses within the build service. We could change this of course, I have the fear that mixed source packages would damage the open source character of our project.
I see the build service as a very nice tool that SUSE is giving to the packagers so they have an easier time making packages. It wouldn't hurt if the build service would have a clearly defined section with third party proprietary packages. Perhaps some vendors would use the build service to make .RPMs of their software then put that software on their own site for download. Anything that increases the number of well built packages for SUSE is a good thing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 16-05-2007 at 15:17, Silviu Marin-Caea <silviu_marin-caea@fieldinsights.ro> wrote: On Tuesday 15 May 2007 10:45:19 am Adrian Schröter wrote:
atm we have the clear policy to allow only OSI approved licenses within the build service. We could change this of course, I have the fear that mixed source packages would damage the open source character of our project.
I see the build service as a very nice tool that SUSE is giving to the packagers so they have an easier time making packages.
It wouldn't hurt if the build service would have a clearly defined section with third party proprietary packages.
Perhaps some vendors would use the build service to make .RPMs of their software then put that software on their own site for download.
Well, I think this won't happen, as long as we request SUSE/Novell to host that server. But 3rd-parties can do the same as VLC-Project: Have their own OBS setup and use it to create packages. Then they can use all the nice advantages of OBS and Novell won't have an issue with licensing. I think THAT's the way to go... but for THAT, we need really to have a 'click here to add this repository'... as with the Benji mpp Dominique TMF is a global management and accounting outsourcing firm with 72 offices in 56 countries and over 2,000 professionals (February 2007). TMF is expanding rapidly throughout the world. Learn more about our unique network and our services and visit our website at www.tmf-group.com. The information contained in this e-mail communication is confidential and solely intended for the person to whom it is addressed. If someone other than the intended recipient should receive or come into possession of this e-mail communication, he/she will not be entitled to read, disseminate, disclose or duplicate it. If you are not the intended recipient, you are requested to notify the sender and to destroy the original e-mail communication. TMF is neither liable for the correct and complete transmission of the information contained in this e-mail communication nor for any delay in its receipt. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for the presence of computer viruses. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Michael, On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 17:25 +0200, Michael Loeffler wrote:
Hi,
we created a survey -still draft version- with the goal to get better knowledge about the usage of proprietary 3rd party sofware we ship with some versions of openSUSE. Based on the survey we'd like to decide about what we ship in future versions of openSUSE regarding proprietary software.
Please have a look at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/Users/33889499/Surveys/413433852485/CC07C39C-761F-4059-8A51-5DAE03B24ACE.asp?U=413433852485&DO_NOT_COPY_THIS_LINK
and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
I don't think that many users will know if/when they use most of these products. Flash, Java etc is something that most will not manually start, but use within the browser. The fonts are the same, if they are installed, then they might or might not be used, but how would a user know? They would have to flip a coin to decide if they "Never use it" or "Don't know". If you still decide to go ahead with this survey, then I think that "Seldom" and "From time to time" is pretty much the same.
Best Michael
Cheers, Magnus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi Michael, I took the survey. Please change "frequence" to "frequency". Thanks, Paul On Tue, 15 May 2007, Michael Loeffler wrote:
we created a survey -still draft version- with the goal to get better knowledge about the usage of proprietary 3rd party sofware we ship with some versions of openSUSE. Based on the survey we'd like to decide about what we ship in future versions of openSUSE regarding proprietary software.
Please have a look at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/Users/33889499/Surveys/413433852485/CC07C39C-76 1F-4059-8A51-5DAE03B24ACE.asp?U=413433852485&DO_NOT_COPY_THIS_LINK
and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 14 May 2007 17:25:33 Michael Loeffler wrote:
and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
I would suggest to add more pre-given options to question 15 like Picasa, CrossOver Office (Eval), DVD-Player (instead of listing "css" as codec), VMWare Player and/or Server, proprietary graphics drivers, ... Bye, Steve --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Binner <stbinner@suse.de> writes:
On Monday 14 May 2007 17:25:33 Michael Loeffler wrote:
and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
I would suggest to add more pre-given options to question 15 like Picasa, CrossOver Office (Eval), DVD-Player (instead of listing "css" as codec), VMWare Player and/or Server, proprietary graphics drivers, ...
We should only add stuff we would include - and proprietary graphics driver are out, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 06:51:15 Andreas Jaeger wrote:
and proprietary graphics driver are out,
How about proprietary modem drivers (Conexant [Eval])? Bye, Steve --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hello all, I think there is no way without proprietary software and they are not much enough shipped with. Especially office-, finance-, and multimedia-software is necessary because this are the most used software. Whatever linux.org discuss about, think about the basics: - It makes crazy, that it is not possible to buy some hardware without studying the HCLs before I bought them and then to find out, that there is missing the real driver which spend me the same features as the win-driver. - If you really need to use financing-software, there is no acceptable open software for linux so this means, no way without win. - Multimedia is the most popular used software for std-users today. If you try to use the open software for linux you'll find, that the quality is much more bad than the quality of software for win. I also find it too bad, that you cannot use the most of your mm-files after installing openSuSE without searching the internet for tools and/or codecs. Aren't this the questions for new and basic user? - How many user wants to have an easy to use antivir-software without installing a serversystem? I think there is a need for. After 13 years using SuSE I think, it is too sad, that it is not possible to use linux as enduser with the same quality in this areas as win. -- gruß Oliver --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Oliver Leue <artus-ol@gmx.net> writes:
Hello all,
I think there is no way without proprietary software and they are not much enough shipped with. Especially office-, finance-, and multimedia-software
That's why we do the survey - we'd like to figure out which software is needed. What specific changes do you propose to the survey? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 09:06:39AM +0200, Oliver Leue wrote:
Hello all,
I think there is no way without proprietary software and they are not much enough shipped with. Especially office-, finance-, and multimedia-software is necessary because this are the most used software. Whatever linux.org discuss about, think about the basics:
- It makes crazy, that it is not possible to buy some hardware without studying the HCLs before I bought them and then to find out, that there is missing the real driver which spend me the same features as the win-driver.
Copyright problems. :(
- Multimedia is the most popular used software for std-users today. If you try to use the open software for linux you'll find, that the quality is much more bad than the quality of software for win. I also find it too bad, that you cannot use the most of your mm-files after installing openSuSE without searching the internet for tools and/or codecs. Aren't this the questions for new and basic user?
Patent, copyright, license problems ... :(
- How many user wants to have an easy to use antivir-software without installing a serversystem? I think there is a need for.
I do not think there is a need for it... Linux has been quite happy without a virus thread. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hello, on Montag, 14. Mai 2007, Michael Loeffler wrote:
we created a survey -still draft version- with the goal to get better knowledge about the usage of proprietary 3rd party sofware we ship with some versions of openSUSE. [...] and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback.
Some questions should contain more details to make answering easier. In general, all questions should name both the (user-visible) application name and the package name. Example: "acroread" is the package name. Please add "Acrobat Reader" - many users know this name better (but keep "acroread" because it's the package name and also the commandline name) Font-related questions should always name the _font names_. I guess nearly nobody knows from which package a specific font comes from (including myself - I also had to ask rpm -ql or rpm -qi ;-) but people usually know if they use the font "Albany" for example. BTW: which package do you mean with "TTF-Fonts" (question 15)? Flash-player should have a note that it is often used inside a web browser. The same goes for Java, even if it isn't that common nowadays. I would also recommend to split the "sometimes" option to - "sometimes, but I really need it" (as in: I can't live without it, even if I use it only once a year) and - "sometimes, and I wouldn't really miss it" (as in: there's a good replacement or I don't really need it) BTW: IMHO you should ignore the answers you get until publishing the final survey - people have to fill the form to beta-test the survey [1] and I'm not sure if everybody gave serious answers ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz [1] you should simply post all questions to the mailinglist the next time you want a survey beta-tested ;-) -- Die Jungs von FreePascal portieren zur Zeit auf alles was nach Prozessor aussieht oder Prozessor im Namen hat ;-) [Gerald Goebel in suse-programming] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Andreas Jaeger -
Christian Boltz -
Craig Millar -
Dominique Leuenberger -
Kai Ponte -
Magnus Boman -
Marcus Meissner -
Michael Loeffler -
Oliver Leue -
Paul C. Leopardi -
Silviu Marin-Caea -
Stephan Binner