29 Jun
2010
29 Jun
'10
1:32 a.m.
Hi all!
As we promised earlier[1] starting today we'll be discussing the third
of strategies: Mobile and cloud ready distribution[2]. Please try to add
your comments to particular bulletpoints or sentences, so it is easier
for us to merge your suggestions into final form. Happy discussing!
[1] http://news.opensuse.org/2010/06/17/a-strategy-for-
the-opensuse-project-proposals-and-discussions/
[2] http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Mobile
----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<----
openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1.) Statement:
We are the Linux distribution that embraces a mobile and social world
backed by cloud data services delivering a desktop experience best
integrated with those platforms. In addition, we deliver a server
solution to host the data and the development tools for those
platforms and devices. Our target customers are professionals,
developers, IT departments, and mobile consumers.
2.) Use cases:
Fred wants to sync his bookmarks, addresses, files, application data,
etc. between his desktop machines and mobile devices via the cloud in
a seamless manner. Next year, his company plans to run their own
private cloud server infrastructure instead of using a public service.
Fred also wants to easily connect to the most common social network
services out-of-the-box when he installs openSUSE.
3.) Background:
We have discussed our expectations for the future and we understand
the "Google vision" where Google (as well as other companies but
Google is the prime example here) hosts all data that then follows
mobile users to wherever they are and whatever kind of (mobile) device
they have. Our tweak here is that we think some customers do not wish
to use the public infrastructure for their data.
4.) Activities:
4.a.) We need to be excellent in the following:
* Create connectivity server for private cloud data service
* Support client connectivity to cloud services hosted by others, e.g.
Google
* Support connectivity to our private cloud service
* Establish easy client setup of connectivity and social services
* Create Tools for remote administration via smart phones of Linux
Desktop incl. WebYaST
* Ensure remote administration tools are optimized for use with
devices (e.g. YaSTroid)
* Deliver integrated development tools for mobile platforms, e.g.
Android, MeeGo and WebOS SDKs
* Collaborate with Android / Meego / WebOS
(not Apple as it is a closed system)
* Lobby for open standards for mobile data access
4.b.) We will try to do the following effectively:
* Deliver a distribution integrating mobile connectivity
* Deliver a build service for building distribution and applications
* Provide multiple desktop experiences for everyone wishing to use
mobile services
* Provide SUSE specific packages: YaST, zypper, AutoYaST, ...
* Provide the best social service apps out of the box and make sure
users easily find them and configure them
* Bugfixing
* Testing
* Feeding back patches to upstream
* Collaboration with upstream
* Collaboration with other Linux distros
4.c.) As project, we will not focus on the following anymore:
* applications that don't integrate with the mobile world
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Best Regards / S pozdravom,
Pavol RUSNAK SUSE LINUX, s.r.o
openSUSE Boosters Team Lihovarska 1060/12
PGP 0xA6917144 19000 Praha 9
prusnak[at]opensuse.org Czech Republic
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29 Jun
29 Jun
7:51 a.m.
Pavol Rusnak wrote:
openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[snip]
3.) Background:
We have discussed our expectations for the future and we understand
the "Google vision" where Google (as well as other companies but
Google is the prime example here) hosts all data that then follows
mobile users to wherever they are and whatever kind of (mobile) device
they have. Our tweak here is that we think some customers do not wish
to use the public infrastructure for their data.
I don't think openSUSE belongs in the space - this sounds like a
proposal to turn openSUSE into a service provider.
For the rest, I think it will make for a very narrow, very focused
distribution.
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8:25 a.m.
On Tuesday 2010-06-29 07:51, Per Jessen wrote:
Pavol Rusnak wrote:
And there is no foothold to gain. There are already enough other
distributions to fill that area. Of course it would be great if
openSUSE were as omnipresent as Microsoft products, but if,
as the strategy wants, anything outside the mobile world is
forgotten that just can't happen logically.
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openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[snip]
3.) Background:
We have discussed our expectations for the future and we understand
the "Google vision" where Google (as well as other companies but
Google is the prime example here) hosts all data that then follows
mobile users to wherever they are and whatever kind of (mobile) device
they have. Our tweak here is that we think some customers do not wish
to use the public infrastructure for their data.
I don't think openSUSE belongs in the space - this sounds like a
proposal to turn openSUSE into a service provider.
For the rest, I think it will make for a very narrow, very focused
distribution. 
9:55 a.m.
Tirsdag den 29. juni 2010 01:32:05 skrev Pavol Rusnak:
openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm immediately sceptical for privacy and freedom reasons. Personally I have
no interest. Probably a very large part of existing users and contributors
won't have either.
4.) Activities:
4.a.) We need to be excellent in the following:
* Create connectivity server for private cloud data service
Who would create this stuff? Novell employees? I don't see a good chance of
volunteers suddenly wanting to do that.
* Support client connectivity to cloud services hosted
by others, e.g.
Google
* Support connectivity to our private cloud service
* Establish easy client setup of connectivity and social services
* Create Tools for remote administration via smart phones of Linux
Desktop incl. WebYaST
* Ensure remote administration tools are optimized for use with
devices (e.g. YaSTroid)
* Deliver integrated development tools for mobile platforms, e.g.
Android, MeeGo and WebOS SDKs
* Collaborate with Android / Meego / WebOS
(not Apple as it is a closed system)
* Lobby for open standards for mobile data access
Maybe areas such as battery life, mobile broadband support, netbook support
etc. would also become even more important than it already is.
4.c.) As project, we will not focus on the following
anymore:
* applications that don't integrate with the mobile world
As with the other strategies, I don't think it works this way. People need to
be able to do more or less everything. Even if a guy does 95% of his computing
in the cloud, there'll still be some app that's important to him, and he will
not use openSUSE for all his cloud computing unless it's first and foremost a
good general purpose OS.
Also this strategy seems rather enterprise'ish and I'd guess the server part
would need long life time to become really effective. Is this really
realistic?
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2:51 p.m.
On Tuesday 29 June 2010 09:55:11 Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 29. juni 2010 01:32:05 skrev Pavol
Rusnak:
That's why this strategy includes the "private cloud server" - to exactly
answer the privacy and freedom questions. Why not have a private cloud server
running at home that connects your smart phone, your laptop and your desktop
machines?
openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm immediately sceptical for privacy and freedom reasons. Personally I
have no interest. Probably a very large part of existing users and
contributors won't have either. Who would create this stuff? Novell employees? I
don't see a good chance of
volunteers suddenly wanting to do that.
As with all proposals: This is something for the openSUSE community. Novell
employees might work on one or the other items but we should not count on them
to do everything.
So, if nobody volunteers for this one, then it won't happen.
Andreas
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6 Jul
6 Jul
4:17 p.m.
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Maybe areas such as battery life, mobile broadband
support, netbook
support etc. would also become even more important than it already is.
Yes, my personal feeling is that these are key aspects openSUSE will
need to excell (or at least do reasonably well) over the next years.
Gerald
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Director Product Management, SUSE Linux Enterprise, openSUSE, Appliances
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29 Jun
29 Jun
1:12 p.m.
I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness of the whole
strategy debate which seems to be centered around the notion that
having a new stratgey is an end in itself while completely
disregarding the existing community structure and the needs and
preferences of users and contributors. Of course you can adopt a
strategy in a top-down fashion, but who is going to sustain it at
the end, Novell employees?
--
Guido Berhoerster
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1:36 p.m.
Guido Berhoerster wrote:
I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness of the
whole
strategy debate
To me it looked more like "the impossible option", which is only there
to put more focus on the others.
which seems to be centered around the notion that
having a new
stratgey is an end in itself while completely disregarding the
existing community structure and the needs and preferences of users
and contributors.
I think the issue is that we have no suitable method of ascertaining
those needs and preferences.
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2:36 p.m.
Per Jessen wrote:
Guido Berhoerster wrote:
methods exist to learn the needs and preferences of developers,
contributors, long time users and drive-by Redmond Ship Jumpers out
shopping for something better, and 'free'..
i believe this exercise began with trying to satisfy the first two of
those groups and to date i've seen little desire or effort to use any
methods available to learn about the last two..
[though (imo) very little that could be learned by polling the last
group would be beneficial to the Community (unless we wanna become
Ubuntu II, which i don't think anyone really wants)..]
a problem i feel is many on this list (who are the voting base) see
only two groups: devs/contributors and a bubble gum crowd of
worthless, mindless, helpless talkers and takers..
by so doing the leadership misses a large segment of long time
S.u.S.E., SUSE, SLE_ and openSUSE lovers/supporters who might never
appear in the forums or on the mail list..
dd
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having a new
stratgey is an end in itself while completely disregarding the
existing community structure and the needs and preferences of users
and contributors.
I think the issue is that we have no suitable method of ascertaining
those needs and preferences.
2:47 p.m.
On Tuesday 29 June 2010 13:36:01 Per Jessen wrote:
Guido Berhoerster wrote:
No, it's not impossible. Looking at it more closely, I learned in the last
weeks that already a lot of is done. I expected far more to do.
We discussed in the Strategy meeting where we see the industry move in the
next years and made proposals for those.
If you have more than one computer or a computer and a smart phone, the issues
this proposal looks at, are something you're seeing today.
Andreas
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Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
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I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness
of the whole
strategy debate
To me it looked more like "the impossible option", which is only there
to put more focus on the others.
3:25 p.m.
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On Tuesday 29 June 2010 13:36:01 Per Jessen wrote:
I meant "impossible to choose", not "impossible to implement". A bit
like Sarah Palin in the US election.
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Guido Berhoerster wrote:
No, it's not impossible. I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness
of the whole
strategy debate
To me it looked more like "the impossible option", which is only
there to put more focus on the others.
3:03 p.m.
* Per Jessen <per(a)opensuse.org> [2010-06-29 13:36]:
Guido Berhoerster wrote:
IIRC there was a user survey recently, I don't know if the
results have been/are going to be published. It should give at
least a hint at current usage patterns and community structure
altough the the representativeness of such an online survey about
freely obtainable product is of course questionable.
However, through the build service it should be possible to get a
more accurate picture in what areas people are contributing, in
particular the distribution of contributions from outside Novell
might be of interest here. The rest can only be gathered from
input through this list, but not every contributor (member or
not) might even be aware of the discussion taking place.
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Guido Berhoerster
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I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness
of the whole
strategy debate
To me it looked more like "the impossible option", which is only there
to put more focus on the others.
which seems to be centered around the notion that
having a new
stratgey is an end in itself while completely disregarding the
existing community structure and the needs and preferences of users
and contributors.
I think the issue is that we have no suitable method of ascertaining
those needs and preferences.
30 Jun
30 Jun
9:48 a.m.
Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Per Jessen <per(a)opensuse.org> [2010-06-29
13:36]:
I think it probably does give a hint of the current status, but that's
not necessarily what we desire. I'm sure we all have our own agendas
wrt openSUSE, but one important idea of the strategy discussion is that
we disregard those for a bit and think of how we can best
define "openSUSE, the Linux distribution". The current status is
somewhat important, but it doesn't really have many distinguishing
features.
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Guido Berhoerster wrote:
IIRC there was a user survey recently, I don't know if the
results have been/are going to be published. It should give at
least a hint at current usage patterns and community structure
altough the the representativeness of such an online survey about
freely obtainable product is of course questionable. I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness
of the whole
strategy debate
To me it looked more like "the impossible option", which is only
there to put more focus on the others.
which seems to be centered around the notion that
having a new
stratgey is an end in itself while completely disregarding the
existing community structure and the needs and preferences of users
and contributors.
I think the issue is that we have no suitable method of ascertaining
those needs and preferences.
12:46 p.m.
On Tuesday 29 June 2010 15:03:48 Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Per Jessen <per(a)opensuse.org> [2010-06-29
13:36]:
See here for the results of the survey:
http://en.opensuse.org/UX/openSUSE_Survey_2010
Also the Strategy pages contain some insights from the survey:
http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Process
Andreas
--
Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj(a){novell.com,opensuse.org}
Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Guido Berhoerster wrote:
IIRC there was a user survey recently, I don't know if the
results have been/are going to be published. It should give at
least a hint at current usage patterns and community structure
altough the the representativeness of such an online survey about
freely obtainable product is of course questionable.
However, through the build service it should be possible to get a
more accurate picture in what areas people are contributing, in
particular the distribution of contributions from outside Novell
might be of interest here. The rest can only be gathered from
input through this list, but not every contributor (member or
not) might even be aware of the discussion taking place. I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness
of the whole
strategy debate
To me it looked more like "the impossible option", which is only there
to put more focus on the others.
which seems to be centered around the notion that
having a new
stratgey is an end in itself while completely disregarding the
existing community structure and the needs and preferences of users
and contributors.
I think the issue is that we have no suitable method of ascertaining
those needs and preferences.
1:27 p.m.
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
See here for the results of the survey:
http://en.opensuse.org/UX/openSUSE_Survey_2010
interesting, especially the part about:
"One third does participate -- not bad at all. Forums are the most
important piece -- is this a typical ENTRY PATH to start contributing?
USER -> FORUMS/MLs/IRC -> BUG REPORTS -> Wiki or Packaging ??? If so,
what do we do to encourage the transitions to the next step? Do we
celebrate our contributors?"
how could it be possible to answer your "is this a typical entry path"
since the forums are less than 2 years old and, from what i've seen in
this ML, many (most?) here consider the forums as a pure waste of
time/energy and therefore no sense in trying to find or 'grow' any
contributors there..(just a bunch of useless non-contributing idiot
"forum talkers")..
so, by and large there has been ZERO attention to spotting and
developing/mentoring contributors from the helpless swamp named Forums.
the loss of two years in which to learn the answer of your very on
target question comes due to a techo-bigoted attitude and refusal to
seek answers amongst the low life..
will it go that way for another two years?
DenverD
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2:26 p.m.
On 06/30/2010 01:27 PM, DenverD wrote:
interesting, especially the part about:
Please create another thread if you want to discuss this. This thread is
for discussing Mobile strategy.
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Best Regards / S pozdravom,
Pavol RUSNAK SUSE LINUX, s.r.o
openSUSE Boosters Team Lihovarska 1060/12
PGP 0xA6917144 19000 Praha 9
prusnak[at]opensuse.org Czech Republic
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2:45 p.m.
* DenverD <DenverD(a)texan.dk> [2010-06-30 13:27]:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Be careful with drawing strong conclusions, this is not a
representative sample of the openSUSE population. A prominent
announcement in the forum may lead many forum users to take the
survey, people with very shallow involvement might be less
inclined to participate etc.
--
Guido Berhoerster
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See here for the results of the survey:
http://en.opensuse.org/UX/openSUSE_Survey_2010
interesting, especially the part about:
"One third does participate -- not bad at all. Forums are the most
important piece -- is this a typical ENTRY PATH to start contributing?
USER -> FORUMS/MLs/IRC -> BUG REPORTS -> Wiki or Packaging ??? If so,
what do we do to encourage the transitions to the next step? Do we
celebrate our contributors?"
3:32 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] openSUSE Strategy Survey Results Question
Pavol Rusnak rightly noted this discussion of the results of the
strategy survey should be in its own thread, therefore:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
See here for the results of the survey:
http://en.opensuse.org/UX/openSUSE_Survey_2010
Also the Strategy pages contain some insights from the survey:
http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Process
interesting, especially the part about:
"One third does participate -- not bad at all. Forums are the most
important piece -- is this a typical ENTRY PATH to start contributing?
USER -> FORUMS/MLs/IRC -> BUG REPORTS -> Wiki or Packaging ??? If so,
what do we do to encourage the transitions to the next step? Do we
celebrate our contributors?"
how could it be possible to answer your "is this a typical entry path"
since the forums are less than 2 years old and, from what i've seen in
this ML, many (most?) here consider the forums as a pure waste of
time/energy and therefore no sense in trying to find or 'grow' any
contributors there..(just a bunch of useless non-contributing idiot
"forum talkers")..
so, by and large there has been ZERO attention to spotting and
developing/mentoring contributors from the helpless swamp named Forums.
the loss of two years in which to learn the answer of your very on
target question comes due to a techo-bigoted attitude and refusal to
seek answers amongst the low life..
will it go that way for another two years?
DenverD
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3:43 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] openSUSE Strategy Survey Results Question
On Wednesday 30 June 2010 15:32:34 DenverD wrote:
Pavol Rusnak rightly noted this discussion of the
results of the
strategy survey should be in its own thread, therefore:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We did the survey in February 2010, found this result and documented it. The
strategy team did a lot of work and this is one result - and now it's time to
react on it. There have been good interactions in the past and our intend
with posting the strategy statements to the forums was exactly to acknowledge
their importance and ask for feedback in that media as well.
It was eye opening to see the the current state - and it's something that is
noted and I expect to be addressed in due time.
See here for the results of the survey:
http://en.opensuse.org/UX/openSUSE_Survey_2010
Also the Strategy pages contain some insights from the survey:
http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Process
interesting, especially the part about:
"One third does participate -- not bad at all. Forums are the most
important piece -- is this a typical ENTRY PATH to start contributing?
USER -> FORUMS/MLs/IRC -> BUG REPORTS -> Wiki or Packaging ??? If so,
what do we do to encourage the transitions to the next step? Do we
celebrate our contributors?"
how could it be possible to answer your "is this a typical entry path"
since the forums are less than 2 years old and, from what i've seen in
this ML, many (most?) here consider the forums as a pure waste of
time/energy and therefore no sense in trying to find or 'grow' any
contributors there..(just a bunch of useless non-contributing idiot
"forum talkers")..
so, by and large there has been ZERO attention to spotting and
developing/mentoring contributors from the helpless swamp named Forums. the loss of two years in which to learn the answer of
your very on
target question comes due to a techo-bigoted attitude and refusal to
seek answers amongst the low life..
will it go that way for another two years?
Btw. DenverD, it would help a lot if you would be a bit less controversial,
I'm not continuing to discuss in this style,
Andreas
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Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
29 Jun
29 Jun
1:43 p.m.
Tirsdag den 29. juni 2010 13:12:30 skrev Guido Berhoerster:
I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness of the
whole
strategy debate which seems to be centered around the notion that
having a new stratgey is an end in itself while completely
disregarding the existing community structure and the needs and
preferences of users and contributors. Of course you can adopt a
strategy in a top-down fashion, but who is going to sustain it at
the end, Novell employees?
That's going a bit far I think. The strategy proposals are discussed openly
and build upon an analysis of existing strenghts, weaknesses, opportunities
and threats (swot) after all. So it's not really a top-down thing, and it's
not completely disregarding existing reality either.
But I do agree that all the proposals are going from one extreme to the other.
From basically having no explicit strategy/direction/mission whatsoever, to
having an extremely narrow focus. And that is also going way too far :-)
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2:12 p.m.
* Martin Schlander <martin.schlander(a)gmail.com> [2010-06-29 13:44]:
Tirsdag den 29. juni 2010 13:12:30 skrev Guido
Berhoerster:
Yes, that is published and IIRC there was also an user survey, so
there is some data (whatever its quality is) on current
strengths, weaknesses and the userbase as well.
I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness
of the whole
strategy debate which seems to be centered around the notion that
having a new stratgey is an end in itself while completely
disregarding the existing community structure and the needs and
preferences of users and contributors. Of course you can adopt a
strategy in a top-down fashion, but who is going to sustain it at
the end, Novell employees?
That's going a bit far I think. The strategy proposals are discussed openly
and build upon an analysis of existing strenghts, weaknesses, opportunities
and threats (swot) after all. So it's not really a top-down thing, and it's
not completely disregarding existing reality either. But I do agree that all the proposals are going from
one extreme to the other.
From basically having no explicit strategy/direction/mission whatsoever, to
having an extremely narrow focus. And that is also going way too far :-)
Yes, they were about picking one arbitray, narrow focus from the
list, explicitly at the expense of others. It treats the different
objectives as mutually exclusive when they are not and neglects
the fact that voluntary contributors cannot be shuffled around
the project at will but have very diverse motivations and
objectives which might clash with such a narrow strategy.
--
Guido Berhoerster
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2:55 p.m.
On Tuesday 29 June 2010 14:12:42 Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Martin Schlander <martin.schlander(a)gmail.com>
[2010-06-29 13:44]:
We came up with these three large proposals and first tried to "blend" them
together but could not find directly a really good combination, so decided to
publish these as "pure" strategies.
We have two traps - a too narrow strategy and a too broad one. If somebody
likes to propose a merging of two strategies, please go ahead and propose a
new "blended" strategy.
Regarding too broad: Let's be practical: Whom do we design the default
installation for? Whom do we want to reach with the openSUSE wiki entrance
page? If we are too broad, we reach nobody because everybody feels lost. So,
what's the right balance?
Andreas
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Tirsdag den 29. juni 2010 13:12:30 skrev Guido
Berhoerster:
Yes, that is published and IIRC there was also an user survey, so
there is some data (whatever its quality is) on current
strengths, weaknesses and the userbase as well.
I find this one exemplary for the arbitraryness
of the whole
strategy debate which seems to be centered around the notion that
having a new stratgey is an end in itself while completely
disregarding the existing community structure and the needs and
preferences of users and contributors. Of course you can adopt a
strategy in a top-down fashion, but who is going to sustain it at
the end, Novell employees?
That's going a bit far I think. The strategy proposals are discussed
openly and build upon an analysis of existing strenghts, weaknesses,
opportunities and threats (swot) after all. So it's not really a
top-down thing, and it's not completely disregarding existing reality
either. But I do agree that all the proposals are going
from one extreme to the
other. From basically having no explicit strategy/direction/mission
whatsoever, to having an extremely narrow focus. And that is also going
way too far :-)
Yes, they were about picking one arbitray, narrow focus from the
list, explicitly at the expense of others. It treats the different
objectives as mutually exclusive when they are not and neglects
the fact that voluntary contributors cannot be shuffled around
the project at will but have very diverse motivations and
objectives which might clash with such a narrow strategy.
4:02 p.m.
* Andreas Jaeger <aj(a)novell.com> [2010-06-29 14:56]:
We came up with these three large proposals and first
tried to "blend" them
together but could not find directly a really good combination, so decided to
publish these as "pure" strategies.
We have two traps - a too narrow strategy and a too broad one. If somebody
likes to propose a merging of two strategies, please go ahead and propose a
new "blended" strategy.
I have made a proposal on this list for a more general,
ecompassing strategy, delegating these "pure" strategies to those
who would need to spend their free- or worktime to implement them.
In other words it would consider openSUSE as an umbrella project
targeting different audiences and integrating diverse
subprojects into a coherent whole.
Regarding too broad: Let's be practical: Whom do
we design the default
installation for? Whom do we want to reach with the openSUSE wiki entrance
Even now there is not really a default install, sure, if you
install from DVD KDE is preselected but three other desktops can
be easily selected and there are different LiveCDs to choose
from.
I see it as a feature that users are given a choice and that we
can accommodate KDE, GNOME, XFCE, and LXDE users (and assisting
technical less capable users to make an informed choice is a
matter of providing documentation if we desire to address them as
a target audience).
While there is a bias towards desktop usage today due to the short
lifetime it does not preclude the possibility of forming a team
providing LTS for a subset of packages as long as there are enough
contributors sustaining such a subproject.
Now for the wiki entrance page it would be simple to provide a
short summary of the projects that the project consists of and
then provide links to subsections directing _different_ target
audiences to their area of interest which might be "Desktop
usage", "Server/cloud usage" etc.
page? If we are too broad, we reach nobody because
everybody feels lost. So,
what's the right balance?
Isn't the core problem that it is currently unclear what openSUSE
stands for? At least IMO there is a severe deficit in marketing,
but I'm not so sure that it is simply a matter of adopting a new
strategy, but rather of *communicating* existing strengths and
unique features (i.e. competitive advantages) both of the product
and the community.
--
Guido Berhoerster
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2:21 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] openSUSE Strategy Discussion: Mobile and cloud ready distribution
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Pavol Rusnak <prusnak(a)opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi all!
As we promised earlier[1] starting today we'll be discussing the third
of strategies: Mobile and cloud ready distribution[2]. Please try to add
your comments to particular bulletpoints or sentences, so it is easier
for us to merge your suggestions into final form. Happy discussing!
[1] http://news.opensuse.org/2010/06/17/a-strategy-for-
the-opensuse-project-proposals-and-discussions/
[2] http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Mobile
----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<----
openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1.) Statement:
We are the Linux distribution that embraces a mobile and social world
backed by cloud data services delivering a desktop experience best
integrated with those platforms. In addition, we deliver a server
solution to host the data and the development tools for those
platforms and devices. Our target customers are professionals,
developers, IT departments, and mobile consumers.
2.) Use cases:
Fred wants to sync his bookmarks, addresses, files, application data,
etc. between his desktop machines and mobile devices via the cloud in
a seamless manner. Next year, his company plans to run their own
private cloud server infrastructure instead of using a public service.
Fred also wants to easily connect to the most common social network
services out-of-the-box when he installs openSUSE.
3.) Background:
We have discussed our expectations for the future and we understand
the "Google vision" where Google (as well as other companies but
Google is the prime example here) hosts all data that then follows
mobile users to wherever they are and whatever kind of (mobile) device
they have. Our tweak here is that we think some customers do not wish
to use the public infrastructure for their data.
4.) Activities:
4.a.) We need to be excellent in the following:
* Create connectivity server for private cloud data service
* Support client connectivity to cloud services hosted by others, e.g.
Google
* Support connectivity to our private cloud service
* Establish easy client setup of connectivity and social services
* Create Tools for remote administration via smart phones of Linux
Desktop incl. WebYaST
* Ensure remote administration tools are optimized for use with
devices (e.g. YaSTroid)
* Deliver integrated development tools for mobile platforms, e.g.
Android, MeeGo and WebOS SDKs
* Collaborate with Android / Meego / WebOS
(not Apple as it is a closed system)
* Lobby for open standards for mobile data access
4.b.) We will try to do the following effectively:
* Deliver a distribution integrating mobile connectivity
* Deliver a build service for building distribution and applications
* Provide multiple desktop experiences for everyone wishing to use
mobile services
* Provide SUSE specific packages: YaST, zypper, AutoYaST, ...
* Provide the best social service apps out of the box and make sure
users easily find them and configure them
* Bugfixing
* Testing
* Feeding back patches to upstream
* Collaboration with upstream
* Collaboration with other Linux distros
4.c.) As project, we will not focus on the following anymore:
* applications that don't integrate with the mobile world
--
Best Regards / S pozdravom,
Pavol RUSNAK SUSE LINUX, s.r.o
I seem to be the only one, but I think this strategy is critical.
I'm under the belief that all 3 proposed strategies proposed are
likely to be integrated into a single larger strategy.
If so, I think openSUSE needs this strategy to absolutely be in the mix.
One simple example is the approximately 11 million netbooks that
shipped with linux pre-installed last year. Those machines seem to
need this strategy to work for them to be useful. ie. I assume most
of those 11 million linux netbooks routinely connect to the cloud for
services like gmail, google docs, facebook, etc.
I'm no market share guru, but I have to believe the low-end of
computing systems (netbooks, droids, etc.) is just going to continue
to get more important and if 5 years from now openSUSE is not fully
involved in that environment, it might as well not exist.
Greg
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9:44 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Re: openSUSE Strategy Discussion: Mobile and cloud ready distribution
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 08:21:37 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
I seem to be the only one, but I think this strategy
is critical.
I think there are important elements here - but perhaps this piece of
strategy falls under the "base for derivatives" as this could be a subset
of the overall openSUSE distribution.
Cloud computing is here to stay - it's the next iteration of the cycle
between "fat client" and "thin client", so I think it's important
to
acknowledge that and leverage that, or we'll be left behind.
Ubuntu already has a cloud service they offer. Being able to leverage
remote storage and processing is the way things are moving in the
industry, so it's important to be part of that.
Maybe because this is an industry trend it shouldn't be left to a
derivative - but I think you make a good point, Greg, when you say:
I have to believe the low-end of computing systems
(netbooks, droids,
etc.) is just going to continue to get more important
One way or another, openSUSE will have to play in the cloud arena. It
would not be good to be a late adopter.
Jim
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1 Jul
1 Jul
4:25 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] openSUSE Strategy Discussion: Mobile and cloud ready distribution
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Pavol Rusnak <prusnak(a)opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi all!
As we promised earlier[1] starting today we'll be discussing the third
of strategies: Mobile and cloud ready distribution[2]. Please try to add
your comments to particular bulletpoints or sentences, so it is easier
for us to merge your suggestions into final form. Happy discussing!
<snip>
Pavol RUSNAK SUSE LINUX, s.r.o
Interesting to be in middle of this mobile discussion when a openfate
entry is created to have next opensuse release (post 11.3) support the
ARM architecture.
https://features.opensuse.org/310070
If you follow the links, several developers have already expressed a
willingness to help.
The way I read it, they seem to be estimating 4-12 additional
man-months of effort to do it. (There has already been a several
man-months invested with the 11.2 factory code spring 2009).
Watching this openfate entry should show how much support there is in
the opensuse contributer base for at least this form of low-end
computing.
Greg
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6 Jul
6 Jul
12:04 p.m.
Hi,
Le mardi 29 juin 2010, à 01:32 +0200, Pavol Rusnak a écrit :
openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If we remove the "private cloud" part of this proposal, then most of
this strategy would actually be integrating various bricks together. I
think we should do it, but it feels more like a specific feature that
will go with something bigger (like, say, "having openSUSE used as the
base OS for Meego" or something like this).
As for the private cloud stuff: that's a good thing, but I seriously
doubt we'd get enough manpower for this. A good approach could be to
team with other communities to work on this, though.
It's worth pointing out that such a strategy would really be a
disruptive change for our community (since what is listed as areas where
we need to be excellent are not really related to our current
distribution), and therefore has a high risk associated with it -- maybe
too high.
I think we'll need to have a good mobile integration story to stay
relevant in the future, but for this, I'd focus on teaming up with other
communities: this will make the result much stronger and more solid in
the long term, for everyone. So I'd keep this part of the strategy and
integrate it with our final strategy, if possible.
Vincent
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3:05 p.m.
On Tuesday 06 July 2010 12:04:29 Vincent Untz wrote:
Hi,
Le mardi 29 juin 2010, à 01:32 +0200, Pavol Rusnak a écrit :
I think the ownCloud stuff that Frank Karlicheck (sp?) is doing is an
example of such a project that we could just integrate.
I was surprised how much is out there already - or beeing actively worked
on.
openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If we remove the "private cloud" part of this proposal, then most of
this strategy would actually be integrating various bricks together. I
think we should do it, but it feels more like a specific feature that
will go with something bigger (like, say, "having openSUSE used as the
base OS for Meego" or something like this).
As for the private cloud stuff: that's a good thing, but I seriously
doubt we'd get enough manpower for this. A good approach could be to
team with other communities to work on this, though. It's worth pointing out that such a strategy would
really be a
disruptive change for our community (since what is listed as areas where
we need to be excellent are not really related to our current
distribution), and therefore has a high risk associated with it -- maybe
too high.
I think we'll need to have a good mobile integration story to stay
relevant in the future, but for this, I'd focus on teaming up with other
communities: this will make the result much stronger and more solid in
the long term, for everyone. So I'd keep this part of the strategy and
integrate it with our final strategy, if possible.
good idea,
Andreas
--
Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj(a){novell.com,opensuse.org}
Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
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3857
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27 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
DenverD -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Greg Freemyer -
Guido Berhoerster -
Jan Engelhardt -
Jim Henderson -
Martin Schlander -
Pavol Rusnak -
Per Jessen -
Vincent Untz