There is a lot of discussions what software should be included in openSUSE, and what to offer as default. Many people, many opinions.
I guess that long time ago offered predefined configurations can be solution.
Every user can Export list of packages installed on his system. So, this can be one area where openSUSE users can help themselves and development team.
Instead of endless complains in all possible directions, export you favorite selection and offer it as a sample, and, just as with screen savers, number of downloads will be the judge.
This will remove a lot of guesswork, what people like and, after some time, there will be always some configuration that is close enough to choose from.
I'm asking this to hear opinions how to do that. Where to upload files exported from YaST? How to check validity of files? Collect opinions, beside download numbers? How to make users aware of that?
There is a lot of discussions what software should be included in openSUSE, and what to offer as default. Many people, many opinions.
I guess that long time ago offered predefined configurations can be solution.
Every user can Export list of packages installed on his system. So, this can be one area where openSUSE users can help themselves and development team.
Instead of endless complains in all possible directions, export you favorite selection and offer it as a sample, and, just as with screen savers, number of downloads will be the judge.
This will remove a lot of guesswork, what people like and, after some time, there will be always some configuration that is close enough to choose from.
I'm asking this to hear opinions how to do that. Where to upload files exported from YaST? How to check validity of files? Collect opinions, beside download numbers? How to make users aware of that?
Good idea. Also popularity will give a guide as to where the most testing & integration effort should be focussed - the bits which are most popular must also be the most reliable and best integrated.
David
Dne čtvrtek 12 Březen 2009 18:36:12 Administrator napsal(a):
There is a lot of discussions what software should be included in openSUSE, and what to offer as default. Many people, many opinions.
I guess that long time ago offered predefined configurations can be solution.
Every user can Export list of packages installed on his system. So, this can be one area where openSUSE users can help themselves and development team.
Instead of endless complains in all possible directions, export you favorite selection and offer it as a sample, and, just as with screen savers, number of downloads will be the judge.
This will remove a lot of guesswork, what people like and, after some time, there will be always some configuration that is close enough to choose from.
I'm asking this to hear opinions how to do that. Where to upload files exported from YaST? How to check validity of files? Collect opinions, beside download numbers? How to make users aware of that?
Good idea. Also popularity will give a guide as to where the most testing & integration effort should be focussed - the bits which are most popular must also be the most reliable and best integrated.
This idea is great, bus misses one more information: How often is the backage being used, or, more simply, has it been used at all, or was it installed just as a part of a pattern, or a newbie installed simply everything just in case it will be needed?
Jiri
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On Friday, 2009-03-13 at 08:28 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
Good idea. Also popularity will give a guide as to where the most testing & integration effort should be focussed - the bits which are most popular must also be the most reliable and best integrated.
This idea is great, bus misses one more information: How often is the backage being used, or, more simply, has it been used at all, or was it installed just as a part of a pattern, or a newbie installed simply everything just in case it will be needed?
Then use the accounting in Linux to track which apps the user is running and use cron to feed that info automatically to a server.
[ ducking under :-p ]
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2009-03-13 at 08:28 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
Good idea. Also popularity will give a guide as to where the most testing & integration effort should be focussed - the bits which are most popular must also be the most reliable and best integrated.
This idea is great, bus misses one more information: How often is the backage being used, or, more simply, has it been used at all, or was it installed just as a part of a pattern, or a newbie installed simply everything just in case it will be needed?
Then use the accounting in Linux to track which apps the user is running and use cron to feed that info automatically to a server.
Hi,
As you probably know, we were talking about this during or "BrainStorming Prague" and a solution has been proposed: use popcon (or something similar)
http://tinyurl.com/suse-popcon https://features.opensuse.org/305877
Popco(r)n should solve more than just only "installed packages" but also "how often are these packages/application" used (and more).
Bye L.
On Friday 13 March 2009 07:40:46 am Lukas Ocilka wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2009-03-13 at 08:28 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
Good idea. Also popularity will give a guide as to where the most testing & integration effort should be focussed - the bits which are most popular must also be the most reliable and best integrated.
This idea is great, bus misses one more information: How often is the backage being used, or, more simply, has it been used at all, or was it installed just as a part of a pattern, or a newbie installed simply everything just in case it will be needed?
Then use the accounting in Linux to track which apps the user is running and use cron to feed that info automatically to a server.
Hi,
As you probably know, we were talking about this during or "BrainStorming Prague" and a solution has been proposed: use popcon (or something similar)
http://tinyurl.com/suse-popcon https://features.opensuse.org/305877
Popco(r)n should solve more than just only "installed packages" but also "how often are these packages/application" used (and more).
Bye L.
The main idea is not statistics what packages are used. That part we can already have by reading http://popcorn.debian.org . They have Linux packages too ;-)
Popcorn can help to set priorities on maintenance and what to include on delivered media, to have minimal media and minimal download. DVD is fine, but 80% of users never touch some programs.
What Popcorn is not designed to solve is package selection for particular purpose. Some not so popular packages can be valuable in some not so often used configuration.
Main idea was to create place where users that are skilled in configuration of the system, or parts of it, can share their config files. Initially I thought only about exporting list of installed packages, but you can publish any config file you want. Repository selection for instance.
Imagine, that someone wants minimal system. He/she spend time configuring that and finally come to something that is usefull. As it is now, he is happy camper, but another person has to do the same for his computer, and so on.
Not everyone is skilled in configuration business, so good minimal, or secure, or funny, or educational, or name it, system is not reachable to everyone. For the part of openSUSE that is on Novell payroll is not viable to maintain endless variations. If users can exchange config files, they can go and find one that fits their ideas, add few pieces and be fine.
Advantage: It will allow reuse of knowledge and fine control of installation process that is not possible right now.
It will prevent endless discussions on topic what should be in default system.
It will help developers to select most popular mix of packages, instead to guess.
Whole voting procedure about best mix of packages is no more on mail list, it is on server that will have configurations.
Example: You don't like desktop effects and few more features, because your computer is old and slow, you remove packages that make it slow, and publish you version. If someone complains about the same, point to "no desktop effects" selection of packages. Download, import, check what YaST wants to do, and Accept, or Cancel.
Disadvantage: Currently you can export or import whole selection, there is no way, without external tools, to add or subtract few packages.
Using rpm to do the same is sort of magic, far from simple, and that limits ability of many people that have other skills to participate.
Thoughts?
Hello all,
i know there's been some work to improve the disk partionner during the install process, i tend to think the main goal was to simplify the whole install process with a unified application. Well, i got the opposite feeling for the screen was not refreshed immediately st of all (how come ?). And most of all for the text was not available entirely on the screen in my language (french). So you had to scroll a lot the screen to see what options you'd be able to implement on your hdds. Not only disturbing this could produce damage to a system if no serious caution taken. This was giving a feeling exactly opposite to the one looked for. Too bad.
manchette wrote:
Hello all,
i know there's been some work to improve the disk partionner during the install process, i tend to think the main goal was to simplify the whole install process with a unified application. Well, i got the opposite feeling for the screen was not refreshed immediately st of all (how come ?). And most of all for the text was not available entirely on the screen in my language (french). So you had to scroll a lot the screen to see what options you'd be able to implement on your hdds. Not only disturbing this could produce damage to a system if no serious caution taken. This was giving a feeling exactly opposite to the one looked for. Too bad.
This seems to be a different thread/issue. Please, open a new one.
Additionally, linking a screenshot and identifying the problematic places there would help a lot.
Bye Lukas
On Thursday 12 March 2009 12:20:40 pm Rajko M. wrote:
There is a lot of discussions what software should be included in openSUSE, and what to offer as default. Many people, many opinions.
I guess that long time ago offered predefined configurations can be solution.
Every user can Export list of packages installed on his system. So, this can be one area where openSUSE users can help themselves and development team.
One benefit of stored configuration that I missed before is that on Import YaST will attempt to restore installed software as listed in backup list created with Export. Consequence is that all dependencies of packages installed after backup was created will be removed as well. This will not happen after 'zypper rm <package>'.
On Thursday 12 March 2009 12:20:40 pm Rajko M. wrote:
There is a lot of discussions what software should be included in openSUSE, and what to offer as default. Many people, many opinions.
I guess that long time ago offered predefined configurations can be solution.
There is old feature request https://features.opensuse.org/305705 , and I added relevant part of this discussion.
-
Administrator -
Carlos E. R. -
Jiri Srain -
Lukas Ocilka -
manchette -
Rajko M.