16 Nov
2009
16 Nov
'09
10:54 a.m.
11.2 seems like a generally well received release, with some good
reviews, and flaws are much less obvious than in 11.1. One of the
11.1 features was smolt, now I see it installed under 11.2; but I've
not found it in the Installation workflow, even with autoconfig off,
and doing net connection test and updates.
There's a Distrowatch review now, which unfortunately is one of those
"Ubuntu & Mandriva" worked, "openSUSE crashes and is unstable"
vareity. There are many who had opposite experience, but it would be
nice to be able to rise above anecdotes and have actuall figures.
Does the openSUSE community have any way to see the extent of
baremetal pre-release testing, and idea of what others are running?
It would be nice, if 11.1, & 11.2 had a quick way of reporting
regressions; hardware that worked but no longer does, so to back the
Release Notes. May be feedback from real end users?
What about a counter, telling ppl how often the 11.2 update repo was queried?
Did smolt go anywhere or was it not as useful as hoped?
Rob
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
16 Nov
16 Nov
12:05 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Rob OpenSuSE
<rob.opensuse.linux(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
There's a Distrowatch review now, which
unfortunately is one of those
"Ubuntu & Mandriva" worked, "openSUSE crashes and is unstable"
vareity. There are many who had opposite experience, but it would be
nice to be able to rise above anecdotes and have actuall figures.
Unfortunately, reviews do tend to be "anecdotal" since it's limited to
the hardware the reviewer has on hand.
For me, I wouldn't allow a reviewer to only test a new OS on only a
netbook and an ancient system -- but, that's life.
Ars and others gave the release a good review. We have to expect at
least one or two dings with each release.
Best,
Zonker
--
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb(a)zonker.net>
openSUSE Community Manager
Get openSUSE 11.2! http://bit.ly/EOV8a
Twitter: jzb | Identica: jzb
About: http://www.dissociatedpress.net/about/
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
1:36 p.m.
On 11/16/2009 12:05 PM, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:54 AM,
Rob OpenSuSE
<rob.opensuse.linux(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
> There's a Distrowatch review now, which
unfortunately is one of
> those "Ubuntu & Mandriva" worked,
"openSUSE crashes and is
> unstable" vareity. There are many who had
opposite
experience, but
> it would be nice to be able to rise above
anecdotes and have
> actuall figures.
Unfortunately, reviews do tend to be
"anecdotal" since it's limited
to the hardware the reviewer has on hand.
For me, I wouldn't allow a reviewer to only test a
new OS on only
a
netbook and an ancient system -- but, that's life.
Ars and others gave the release a good review. We have
to expect
at
least one or two dings with each release.
Best,
Zonker
I bought a new acer netbook with an aom
n279 1 gig ram
went to the nearest coffee shop and had openSuse 11.2 rc1 installed with
a dd'd usb stick
within a half cup of small coffee.
presently I have 11.2 final installed and 11.3 milestone 0 up and running
using a usb keyboared and mouse and a larger 1400x900 monitor . about
the only issue I have is I cant align my monitors side by side
I can do them above and below tho. pretty minor
What I,m trying to say does this guy even know how to operate a compue
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
2:05 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM, dale ritchey <mergan14846(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What I,m trying to say does this guy even know how to
operate a compue
I assume you're using the term "guy" inclusively, as I believe the
author is a woman. Judging by her bio, I'd say she probably does know
"how to operate a compue" and even a computer too!
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2654
When working with press and reviewers, I would recommend assuming that
just because they have a bad experience with the software does not
indicate that the reviewer is less competent. Maybe they are. More
likely, they have a testing rig that doesn't work well with the
distro.
And, even if the reviewer *is less competent (which I am not for a
moment suggesting in this case) you're still not going to do yourself
or the project any favors by suggesting that a bad review is because
the reviewer is not good at what they do.
If you're *very lucky, the reviewer in question is professional enough
to ignore being slammed. If you're unlucky, the reviewer will either
review the next release with a grudge, or pass it by altogether.
Either way, the project loses.
This is exactly the kind of situation openSUSE deals with every day as
a "product." It isn't the user's job to be "fair" to openSUSE
-- it's
the project's job to deliver something that "just works." If it
doesn't "just work" it's a reviewer's job to say so.
Some of the dings in the review seem a bit unfair, but this is exactly
the sort of experience some users will run into (apparently) and
attributing that only to the competence of the reviewer is a very bad
idea.
Best,
Zonker
--
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb(a)zonker.net>
openSUSE Community Manager
Get openSUSE 11.2! http://bit.ly/EOV8a
Twitter: jzb | Identica: jzb
About: http://www.dissociatedpress.net/about/
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
2:26 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/16 Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb(a)zonker.net>et>:
The reviewer also knew significant info, which if it had been posted
on forum, would probably have meant she received a workround fairly
rapidly.
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM, dale ritchey
<mergan14846(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What I,m
trying to say does this guy even know how to operate a compue
I assume you're using the term "guy" inclusively, as I believe the
author is a woman. Judging by her bio, I'd say she probably does know
"how to operate a compue" and even a computer too!
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2654 When working with press and reviewers, I would
recommend assuming that
just because they have a bad experience with the software does not
indicate that the reviewer is less competent.
Some of the dings in the review seem a bit unfair, but this is exactly
the sort of experience some users will run into (apparently) and
attributing that only to the competence of the reviewer is a very bad
idea.
C. was comparing an HP Mini 110, which was pre-sold with Ubuntu
(Netbook Remix I think) and has Tier 1 support according to
Cannonical. It includes the Broadcom wireless driver, and she
experienced problems in other Linux with it causing conflicts. That
Liive CD doesn't support (at least it didn't in 11.1 brokenmodules=X
boot parameter) means it is harder to work round any issues.
It is true that the Wiki was down on release day, the
en.software.openuse.org URL's weren't working.
I have noticed that there are dead links on the Novell site to, in the
FAQ (even a reference to upgrading if system older than SuSE Linux
8.2), and also in the Docs section.
I found a tool called "checkbot" in the distro, could somoeone's
Webmaster run it, so the hardwork put into the OS isn't let down by
more nits than necessary.
Rob
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
22 Nov
22 Nov
6:40 p.m.
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
I found a tool called "checkbot" in the
distro, could somoeone's
Webmaster run it, so the hardwork put into the OS isn't let down
by more nits than necessary.
In a different life I am contributing the occasional patch to checkbot and
have it regularily running on two websites I maintain. I would be glad to
do the same for openSUSE if someone wants to look at the report (and tells
me where to send it). No magic here, we just may want to have one
instance running, not a few dozen. :-)
Gerald
--
Dr. Gerald Pfeifer gp(a)novell.com | SUSE Linux Products GmbH
Director Product Management | HRB 16746 (AG Nuremberg)
SUSE Linux Enterprise, openSUSE, Appliances | GF Markus Rex
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
23 Nov
23 Nov
10:38 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/22 Gerald Pfeifer <gp(a)novell.com>om>:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
I reported a few link problems on Documentation & FAQ hosted on
novell.com which is linked to by openSUSE.org.
No evidence to suggest openSUSE links aren't checked already.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
I found a tool called "checkbot" in the
distro, could somoeone's
Webmaster run it, so the hardwork put into the OS isn't let down
by more nits than necessary.
In a different life I am contributing the occasional patch to checkbot and
have it regularily running on two websites I maintain. I would be glad to
do the same for openSUSE if someone wants to look at the report (and tells
me where to send it). No magic here, we just may want to have one
instance running, not a few dozen. :-)
16 Nov
16 Nov
2:18 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/16 Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <jzb(a)zonker.net>et>:
Yes, the reviews have mostly been excellent, and the "feel" on forums
is good to this time :)
The Phoronix Benchmarks show us faster by significant amount Ubuntu
9.10 with RC1, which I think pitched desktop tuned kernels against an
older server release. CentOS did great in serverside test things,
with OS-11.2 ahead of U-9.10.
Did we do anything with smolt though? It was one of the new features
of 11.1 and it's visibility has been very low to me, even when I tried
the "Register with Novell" option.
Thanks for quick answer.
Rob
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Rob OpenSuSE
<rob.opensuse.linux(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
There's a
Distrowatch review now, which unfortunately is one of those
"Ubuntu & Mandriva" worked, "openSUSE crashes and is unstable"
vareity. There are many who had opposite experience, but it would be
nice to be able to rise above anecdotes and have actuall figures.
Unfortunately, reviews do tend to be "anecdotal" since it's limited to
the hardware the reviewer has on hand.
For me, I wouldn't allow a reviewer to only test a new OS on only a
netbook and an ancient system -- but, that's life.
Ars and others gave the release a good review. We have to expect at
least one or two dings with each release. 
8:25 p.m.
On Monday 16 November 2009 13:18:34 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
Did we do anything with smolt though?
Smolt is included and installed, but the tool is not complete, so it should
not be pushed too much in front. Basic stuff works, an old bug that made GUI
useless is resolved, so now you can get password that you need to edit your
profile on a smolts.org server. BTW, it would be good to have edit options in
client, so that you can edit profile before upload.
Interested can start smoltGui from console, or Main Menu search for smolt.
--
Regards, Rajko
openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team
People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
6:05 p.m.
Hi,
On Monday 16 November 2009 15:54:50 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
11.2 seems like a generally well received release,
with some good
reviews, and flaws are much less obvious than in 11.1. One of the
11.1 features was smolt, now I see it installed under 11.2; but I've
not found it in the Installation workflow, even with autoconfig off,
and doing net connection test and updates.
At least KDE users will notice a KDE notification (ksmolt) asking to submit
they hardware profile to Smolt as soon as a Smolt update is released,
unghosting file /var/run/smolt_do_opensuse_run and thus triggering ksmolt. You
can follow this in bug report #555777.
Nevertheless, users can still submit their hardware profile by manually
running 'smoltGui' (GUI) or 'smoltSendProfile' (CLI). Please, with or
without
ksmolt and/or the file above, just *submit* it! ;-)
Note that this is *not* a bug, but a project manager's decision that an update
would be released as soon as 11.2 is out.
--
Regards,
Carlos Goncalves
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
9:02 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/16 Carlos Goncalves <cgoncalves(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
On Monday 16 November 2009 15:54:50 Rob OpenSuSE
wrote:
Well I am a KDE user was asked repeatedly in 11.1 RC's and GM, but
11.2 has not asked me once about smolt yet. I've run RC's, done
upgrades to 11.2 and also am currently using a clean install.
It's why I checked whether smolt was even installed. But if it's
still running and meant to be started then, do we have any access to
some summary information?
What is actually getting tested prior to release, and then installed
after would be great to know, in order to spend time more wisely when
testing openSUSE.
Rob
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
11.2 seems like a generally well received
release, with some good
reviews, and flaws are much less obvious than in 11.1. One of the
11.1 features was smolt, now I see it installed under 11.2; but I've
not found it in the Installation workflow, even with autoconfig off,
and doing net connection test and updates.
At least KDE users will notice a KDE notification (ksmolt) asking to submit
they hardware profile to Smolt as soon as a Smolt update is released,
unghosting file /var/run/smolt_do_opensuse_run and thus triggering ksmolt. You
can follow this in bug report #555777.
17 Nov
17 Nov
4:55 p.m.
On Tuesday 17 November 2009 02:02:25 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/11/16 Carlos Goncalves
<cgoncalves(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
It didn't ask you in 11.2 because there is no Smolt update yet.
On Monday 16 November 2009 15:54:50 Rob OpenSuSE
wrote:
Well I am a KDE user was asked repeatedly in 11.1 RC's and GM, but
11.2 has not asked me once about smolt yet. I've run RC's, done
upgrades to 11.2 and also am currently using a clean install. 11.2 seems like a generally well received
release, with some good
reviews, and flaws are much less obvious than in 11.1. One of the
11.1 features was smolt, now I see it installed under 11.2; but I've
not found it in the Installation workflow, even with autoconfig off,
and doing net connection test and updates.
At least KDE users will notice a KDE notification (ksmolt) asking to
submit they hardware profile to Smolt as soon as a Smolt update is
released, unghosting file /var/run/smolt_do_opensuse_run and thus
triggering ksmolt. You can follow this in bug report #555777. It's why I checked whether smolt was even
installed. But if it's
still running and meant to be started then, do we have any access to
some summary information?
Please note that Smolt doesn't run neither as a service nor as a background
process sending periodically (monthly by default) your hardware profile unless
you tell it explicitly (/etc/init.d/smolt). This is, openSUSE does not enable
that service by default.
--
Regards,
Carlos Goncalves
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
18 Nov
18 Nov
6:28 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/17 Carlos Goncalves <cgoncalves(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
On Tuesday 17 November 2009 02:02:25 Rob OpenSuSE
wrote:
> 2009/11/16 Carlos Goncalves <cgoncalves(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
> > On Monday 16 November 2009 15:54:50 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
It didn't ask you in 11.2 because there is no
Smolt update yet.
So basically, we have very little idea what hardware our release have
been tested on, and no information is openly available to openSUSE
users, or those who try to spec. out a system to run openSUSE well?
The very visible 11.1 new feature, is just melting away and being forgotten?
http://www.google.com/search?q=smolt+site%3Aopensuse.org doesn't show very much.
smolt.org has Active Hosts last 90 days, as 20,910 for 11.1 and just
175 for 11.2, which is too small a sample to be useful.
Rob
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
It's why I checked whether smolt was even
installed. But if it's
still running and meant to be started then, do we have any access to
some summary information?
Please note that Smolt doesn't run neither as a service nor as a background
process sending periodically (monthly by default) your hardware profile unless
you tell it explicitly (/etc/init.d/smolt). This is, openSUSE does not enable
that service by default. 
9:23 a.m.
Carlos Goncalves wrote:
Please note that Smolt doesn't run neither as a
service nor as a
background process sending periodically (monthly by default) your
hardware profile unless you tell it explicitly (/etc/init.d/smolt).
This is, openSUSE does not enable that service by default.
Uh, on a freshly installed 11.2 I have the following cron entry:
# Runs the smolt checkin client
20 1 1 * * smolt /usr/bin/smoltSendProfile -c > /dev/null 2>&1
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
9:46 a.m.
* Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> [11-18-09 09:24]:
Carlos Goncalves wrote:
Meee tooo. Since late June in one of the early/first 11.2 MileStones.
And, if you bother to look, there is 11.2 information available on the
smolt website.
--
Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711
http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
Please note that Smolt doesn't run neither as
a service nor as a
background process sending periodically (monthly by default) your
hardware profile unless you tell it explicitly (/etc/init.d/smolt).
This is, openSUSE does not enable that service by default.
Uh, on a freshly installed 11.2 I have the following cron entry:
# Runs the smolt checkin client
20 1 1 * * smolt /usr/bin/smoltSendProfile -c > /dev/null 2>&1
12:25 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/18 Patrick Shanahan <ptilopteri(a)gmail.com>om>:
* Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> [11-18-09
09:24]:
I have the file to, but there is no way only 175 11.2 installs were
done, which is the smolt.org figures.
Something is wrong
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
Carlos Goncalves wrote:
Meee tooo. Since late June in one of the early/first 11.2 MileStones.
And, if you bother to look, there is 11.2 information available on the
smolt website. Please note that Smolt doesn't run neither as
a service nor as a
background process sending periodically (monthly by default) your
hardware profile unless you tell it explicitly (/etc/init.d/smolt).
This is, openSUSE does not enable that service by default.
Uh, on a freshly installed 11.2 I have the following cron entry:
# Runs the smolt checkin client
20 1 1 * * smolt /usr/bin/smoltSendProfile -c > /dev/null 2>&1
1:33 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/11/18 Patrick Shanahan
<ptilopteri(a)gmail.com>om>:
Look at the cron entry. "20 1 1" means 0120 (local) on the first day of
the month.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
* Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> [11-18-09
09:24]:
I have the file to, but there is no way only 175 11.2 installs were
done, which is the smolt.org figures.
Something is wrong Carlos Goncalves wrote:
Meee tooo. Since late June in one of the early/first 11.2
MileStones.
And, if you bother to look, there is 11.2 information available on
the smolt website. Please note that Smolt doesn't run neither as
a service nor as a
background process sending periodically (monthly by default) your
hardware profile unless you tell it explicitly
(/etc/init.d/smolt). This is, openSUSE does not enable that
service by default.
Uh, on a freshly installed 11.2 I have the following cron entry:
# Runs the smolt checkin client
20 1 1 * * smolt /usr/bin/smoltSendProfile -c > /dev/null 2>&1
3:35 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 11/18/2009 07:33 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=463461
Reported almost a year ago.
- --
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2-ex-factory "Emerald" GM)
Something is
wrong
Look at the cron entry. "20 1 1" means 0120 (local) on the first day of
the month. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
iEYEARECAAYFAksEWn0ACgkQU92UU+smfQXDRQCfVpOHylzsG1p19o2ISZsV5iya
fQoAn2/7FRhiE1U2e3B3Rxi8uisyR3IP
=oJau
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
11:02 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/18 Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=463461
Reported almost a year ago.
Exactly! My pre-GM 11.2 was unlikely to have contacted the smolts.org
servers, and a mail thread where you mention the problems with the
cron job is one of the few things thrown up by the google search I
made. With 11.1, you got prodded into submitting (or not) a report,
and you got an Smolt ID so could give a URL with hardware description
in bug reports.
On smolts.org there's some very basic stats, but I don't think we can
see what OS 11.2 has been tested on. So it's hard to know if it's
worth spending time on a box, checking if our OS is installable to a
point where bug reports could be submitted. Perhaps it'd be better
strategy to run vanilla kernels to, and try out the rc's whilst the
main kernel team are swatting regressions. The drawback is the long
compile time these days for kernel on older boxes, making it rather
time consuming.
Rob
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
Something is wrong
Look at the cron entry. "20 1 1" means 0120 (local) on the first day of
the month.
19 Nov
19 Nov
3:31 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/11/18 Carlos E. R.
<carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=463461
Reported almost a year ago.
Exactly! My pre-GM 11.2 was unlikely to have contacted the smolts.org
servers, and a mail thread where you mention the problems with the
cron job is one of the few things thrown up by the google search I
made.
With 11.1, you got prodded into submitting (or not) a report,
and you got an Smolt ID so could give a URL with hardware description
in bug reports.
Just run smoltSendProfile, and that's exactly what will happen.
Something is wrong
Look at the cron entry. "20 1 1" means 0120 (local) on the first day
of the month. On smolts.org there's some very basic stats, but I
don't think we can
see what OS 11.2 has been tested on. So it's hard to know if it's
worth spending time on a box, checking if our OS is installable to a
point where bug reports could be submitted.
This might be a matter of opinion, but unless you've got a really
unusual box (embedded or some such for instance), why don't you just
try it out? 99% of hardware will be supported to a point where
whatever remains is worth submitting bugreports on.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
7:55 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/19 Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org>rg>:
You've been missing the point in this thread. This is about using
time of all better. If you have access to many machines, how do you
choose where is worthwhile trying something? If 10 people are using
that machine daily as a desktop already, then it's waste of time
duplicating their effort. Where as if noone has installed on that
hardware 11.2, then possibly it's a sign of boot problems needing a
workround and/or kernel changes. With some older hardware, testing it
and submitting bug reports can become a lot of work on a marginally
viable box, which then noone really uses; but OTOH if a PCI card is
widely used with older releases, it is worthwhile putting effort in.
It seems clear from response to this thread as a project, we really
have very little idea really about the range of hardware our newest
release has been tested on. We could only start to get a picture as
cron jobs start running on 1st. But don't find it obvious with
smolts.org how to filter out Fedora etc and only look at results for
OS 11.x.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
How many ppl would bother to do this?
2009/11/18 Carlos E. R.
<carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
Just run smoltSendProfile, and that's exactly what will happen. On smolts.org
there's some very basic stats, but I don't think we can
see what OS 11.2 has been tested on. So it's hard to know if it's
worth spending time on a box, checking if our OS is installable to a
point where bug reports could be submitted.
This might be a matter of opinion, but unless you've got a really
unusual box (embedded or some such for instance), why don't you just
try it out? 99% of hardware will be supported to a point where
whatever remains is worth submitting bugreports on.
8:33 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
You've been missing the point in this thread. This is about using
time of all better. If you have access to many machines, how do you
choose where is worthwhile trying something?
To me, what is worthwhile testing is something I determine. It is in no
way influenced by what may or may not have been tested already.
I will often try out the alphas/betas/RCs on boxes I might be prepping
for production, or a box that has been taken out of production, but not
yet moved. Right now I've got a new firewall box sitting next to me,
running 11.2. It won't be going into production for a while.
Downstairs I've got an elderly PII running one of the later builds, plus
a new(ish) Proliant also on a recent build, but pre-RC.
2009/11/19 Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org>rg>:
Not many, only those with an active interest in smolt, I suspect - which
might also happen to be the ones with a use for a Smolt ID ?
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
How many ppl would bother to do this? 2009/11/18 Carlos E. R.
<carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
Just run smoltSendProfile, and that's exactly what will happen. On smolts.org there's some very basic stats, but I
don't think we
can see what OS 11.2 has been tested on. So it's hard to know if
it's worth spending time on a box, checking if our OS is
installable to a point where bug reports could be submitted.
This might be a matter of opinion, but unless you've got a really
unusual box (embedded or some such for instance), why don't you just
try it out? 99% of hardware will be supported to a point where
whatever remains is worth submitting bugreports on. If 10 people are using that machine daily as a desktop
already, then
it's waste of time duplicating their effort.
Perhaps - doesn't it depend some on what they're doing with it and if it
is _exactly_ the same machine?
It seems clear from response to this thread as a
project, we really
have very little idea really about the range of hardware our newest
release has been tested on.
Yes, I think that is a very safe assumption to make.
We could only start to get a picture as cron jobs
start running on
1st. But don't find it obvious with smolts.org how to filter out
Fedora etc and only look at results for OS 11.x.
I looked at the smolt package, and AFAICT, Henne Vogelsang added a
requirement for cron back in 2008, so maybe that's when the cron-file
was created too. Maybe Henne had some specific idea wrt the 0120 time
to run smolt?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
9:54 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/19 Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org>rg>:
Well I have installed Linux for 10 years or so, so when things don't
go smooth I'd like to think I can develop work rounds, and narrow the
problem down. Our releases do not install smoothly on all supported
range of hardware, because of driver issues in kernel, or sometimes
installer bugs.
To me those bugs, that stop someone running Online update, are much
more serious than 'normal' application bugs, say a crash in Kget when
you investigate torrents in a download group.
What does the average user do, when faced with a GM release that
simply locks up, when the kernel starts running, or just get a black
screen?
I used to avoid the sleep issues in a simple way by having the cron
job, create a job with randomised later time into an at(1) queue
configured 1 job wide and like the batch(1) queue to run only when
system load was low. That way the job would get run, even if there
was downtime and you didn't need processes hanging around.
Unfortunately we don't seem to enable at(1)/batch(1) on default
install, so Carlos's idea seems the best suggestion.
If we can't use the info gathered effectively, there seems little
point in taking a look at the upstream code, and writing & trying to
get them to accept a SuSE specific patch which works better with our
dumber cron(8) system.
Unfortunately we've got another bad review on lwn.net, this time it
installed with disgusting fonts, which would have caused huge fuss on
forum if it were a usual happening. The recommendation is to wait for
11.3, which given how improved past releases were 10 weeks after
release by updates, seems really unfair.
As Joe said, it's is the users/reviewers job to 'blame', and without
something more organised (and the visible collection of smolt data
seemed a step on this parth) to ensure reasonable test coverage (even
just booting of Live CD) I can't see how the GM release will really
improve and become "just works" for more ppl.
Rob
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
> 2009/11/19 Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org>rg>:
>> Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
>>> 2009/11/18 Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
To me, what is worthwhile testing is something I
determine. It is in no
way influenced by what may or may not have been tested already.
I will often try out the alphas/betas/RCs on boxes I might be prepping
for production, or a box that has been taken out of production, but not
yet moved. Right now I've got a new firewall box sitting next to me,
running 11.2.
Yes that's good opportunism.
If 10 people
are using that machine daily as a desktop already, then
it's waste of time duplicating their effort.
Perhaps - doesn't it depend some on what they're doing with it and if it
is _exactly_ the same machine? It seems clear
from response to this thread as a project, we really
have very little idea really about the range of hardware our newest
release has been tested on.
Yes, I think that is a very safe assumption to make.
We could only start to get a picture as cron jobs
start running on
1st. But don't find it obvious with smolts.org how to filter out
Fedora etc and only look at results for OS 11.x.
I looked at the smolt package, and AFAICT, Henne Vogelsang added a
requirement for cron back in 2008, so maybe that's when the cron-file
was created too. Maybe Henne had some specific idea wrt the 0120 time
to run smolt?
11:47 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
Run smolt on startup, skipping if timestamp of <last-time-file> is less
than 30 days old.
2009/11/19 Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org>rg>:
Yeah, that's really what it is - testing on current (i.e. production
hardware) is out of the question, whereas anything "in transition" is
easier to get to.
To me, what is worthwhile testing is something I
determine. It is in
no way influenced by what may or may not have been tested already.
I will often try out the alphas/betas/RCs on boxes I might be
prepping for production, or a box that has been taken out of
production, but not yet moved. Right now I've got a new firewall box
sitting next to me, running 11.2.
Yes that's good opportunism. I looked at
the smolt package, and AFAICT, Henne Vogelsang added a
requirement for cron back in 2008, so maybe that's when the cron-file
was created too. Maybe Henne had some specific idea wrt the 0120 time
to run smolt?
I used to avoid the sleep issues in a simple way by having the cron
job, create a job with randomised later time into an at(1) queue
configured 1 job wide and like the batch(1) queue to run only when
system load was low. That way the job would get run, even if there
was downtime and you didn't need processes hanging around. If we can't use the info gathered effectively,
there seems little
point in taking a look at the upstream code, and writing & trying to
get them to accept a SuSE specific patch which works better with our
dumber cron(8) system.
I don't see this as being an upstream issue, I think it's about
packaging.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
3:43 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 11/19/2009 05:47 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
Run smolt on startup, skipping if timestamp of
<last-time-file> is less
than 30 days old.
Just drop an entry in /etc/cron.monthly/, that's what it is for.
- --
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2-ex-factory "Emerald" GM)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
iEYEARECAAYFAksFrgQACgkQU92UU+smfQXoIgCeMtqbtLQE6slsa8uFiKpgfsGt
awgAn30l+Ws4ar1zbh8Lqg98qZqYu5hV
=II+1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
6:16 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/19 Carlos E. R. <robin.listas(a)telefonica.net>et>:
Didn't the packager refuse to do that though for some reason?
Referring it Upstream.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
Run smolt on
startup, skipping if timestamp of <last-time-file> is less
than 30 days old.
Just drop an entry in /etc/cron.monthly/, that's what it is for.
20 Nov
20 Nov
2:41 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/11/19 Carlos E. R.
<robin.listas(a)telefonica.net>et>:
Didn't the packager refuse to do that though for some reason?
Referring it Upstream.
You're right, I've just found the cron stuff in the smolt tarball.
Maybe there is a smolt mailing list ?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
Run smolt
on startup, skipping if timestamp of <last-time-file> is
less than 30 days old.
Just drop an entry in /etc/cron.monthly/, that's what it is for.
6:49 a.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
2009/11/20 Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org>rg>:
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
I noticed in the RC services control that smolt was "disabled" by
default, with some explanation that enabling it would cause a monthly
cron job.
If that's true then openSUSE has effectively negated the 11.1 effort
on smolt, and if not then we have misleading info in YaST.
Rob
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
2009/11/19 Carlos E. R.
<robin.listas(a)telefonica.net>et>:
You're right, I've just found the cron stuff in the smolt tarball.
Maybe there is a smolt mailing list ?
7:27 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Hardware Coverage Visibility in Release Testing
On Thursday 19 November 2009 07:33:55 Per Jessen wrote:
Everyone that has a problem can be asked to run smolt, and edit working and
not working hardware on the http://smolts.org server.
Profile ID and password one can get with command line and GUI.
Carlos Goncalves created new GUI that has no problem with missing password,
and has open options to extend reported information with installed software,
although that is not yet implemented.
--
Regards, Rajko
openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team
People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org
How many ppl
would bother to do this?
Not many, only those with an active interest in smolt, I suspect - which
might also happen to be the ones with a use for a Smolt ID ?
4076
days inactive
4083
days old
28 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos Goncalves -
dale ritchey -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
Rajko M. -
Rob OpenSuSE