-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-07-24 19:22, Stephan Kulow wrote:

Am 24.07.2015 um 13:57 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

But the tumbleweed download link is not there. Sould it be, somewhere?

Yes, for software.opensuse.org you best create a pull request on github: https://github.com/openSUSE/software-o-o

Sorry, I have no idea about that, sounds Greek or Chinese to me. But perhaps you misunderstood: what I mean is that perhaps our web should have direct links, for the stable, tumbleweed, and Leap betas. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWyecEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Wr/QCfQAUVXQjDMEgn1TnKbHzTLDKB dtAAn3OTMpY5DHU0ux30gDjqs381x2ct =n6kx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

just curious after leap m1 was released is there a decision about the life cycle and the roadmap for the next releases (leap 4x.y) ? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Richard, I been lost because of work and family, Is 13.2 the last of openSUSE, will there still be a reg. release, Is there web page that going to explain what is be left. On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Richard Brown wrote:

On 24 July 2015 at 23:05, nirsuse wrote:

...

just curious after leap m1 was released is there a decision about the life cycle and the roadmap for the next releases (leap 4x.y) ?

I (or hopefully, someone wiser, balder, and more all knowing than me) will update the pages accordingly in due course

But the very short version is

Leap releases will be aligned with SUSE Linux Enterprise versions

And as SUSE Linux Enterprise versions aren't announced years in advance, we won't be announcing Leap versions with any guarantee too far in advance

However, we should be able to share _PREDICTED_ schedules and such -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 24 July 2015 at 23:52, Richard Brown wrote:

Hi Chuck,

Glad to hear you're back, don't panic!

https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Leap https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Leap

and

https://news.opensuse.org/2015/07/24/opensuse-releases-first-milestone-for-l...

Should tell you everything you need to know

There will still be a Regular Release, just built very differently than the old-fashioned one.

or if you feel like watching me drone on in a video for half an hour.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH99TSrfvq0 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Fredag den 24. juli 2015 23:11:36 skrev Richard Brown:

On 24 July 2015 at 23:05, nirsuse wrote:

...

just curious after leap m1 was released is there a decision about the life cycle and the roadmap for the next releases (leap 4x.y) ?

But the very short version is

Leap releases will be aligned with SUSE Linux Enterprise versions

And as SUSE Linux Enterprise versions aren't announced years in advance, we won't be announcing Leap versions with any guarantee too far in advance

However, we should be able to share _PREDICTED_ schedules and such

If you want people to tour around the internet claming "long term support" (even if most of the software changes at random intervals of roughly 12-18 months), you need at least to come up with a minimum lifetime for the 42- series to have some credibility. "At least 3 years" was thrown around many times. So I guess we can assume 42.x will be supported "at least until November 2018". Maybe it would be possible to add an additional promise of support for 6 or 12 months after the release of Leap 43 or similar, guaranteeing people some form of reasonable timeframe to upgrade to 43. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Sunday 26 July 2015 17.39:50 jdd wrote:

Le 26/07/2015 16:23, Martin Schlander a écrit :

...

"At least 3 years" was thrown around many times. So I guess we can assume 42.x will be supported "at least until November 2018". Maybe it would be possible to add an additional promise of support for 6 or 12 months after the release of Leap 43 or similar, guaranteeing people some form of reasonable timeframe to upgrade to 43.

I have no information more than anybody here, but read most of what was said on the subject.

What I got as feeling is that the new system is a bit different from the old one.

We will have in November 2015 leap 42.1, based on SUSEcore 12.2 (?) then we will have some mandatory security updates as previously In November 2016 (one year) we will get a service pack that is a bit more than an update. it will give 42.1.2 (?), but it may give us some newer product, at least minor versions (may be search to see how SUSE manage service packs, I don't had yet the time to do it). then again security updates only then a new service pack... and so on until November 2018.

At that time, SUSE core will be upgraded to 13 (or 12.3??)

I'm pretty sure going from 42.1.3 to 42.2 will be very easy and very well tested.

Right now 42 is only 1/3 SUSE, so how will openSUSE manage the other 2/3 is still unknown

The fact that SUSE hire a new distribution manager is probably a sign than hard work is to be done soon :-)

jdd

42 In November will be 42.1 (SLE 12 + SP1) the decimal part will reflect the level of service pack of SLE 43 will be based on SLE 13 in x years from now (normally between 3-4 years) That's how it was explain by Richard, and understood by me :-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Board, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

I just found this page that may be related to the subject: https://www.suse.com/support/policy.html in summary: "SUSE provides thirteen year product lifecycle for most products in SUSE Linux Enterprise 11 and SUSE Linux Enterprise 12." I was still thinking the support was 7 years (and find this much!) so if long term support for openSUSE is 3 or 5 years, it do not anymore compete with SUSE one :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:06:47AM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-07-26 22:40, jdd wrote:

...

I just found this page that may be related to the subject:

https://www.suse.com/support/policy.html

in summary:

"SUSE provides thirteen year product lifecycle for most products in SUSE Linux Enterprise 11 and SUSE Linux Enterprise 12."

I was still thinking the support was 7 years (and find this much!)

From memory, I think those 13 years is a very limited support, perhaps only security, perhaps only the core. The normal maintenance period maybe be those 7 years. Unless it has been changed.

This is 10 years of general maintenance and 3 years of extended maintenance. We announced this at SUSECon 2013. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-27 00:21, PatrickD Garvey wrote:

I believe this indicates that members of the openSUSE.org community cannot adequately research the issue and derive an answer from readily available public information about what sources will be added to the Open Build Service in the future, what restrictions will be maintained on those sources, and what the timing of that release will be.

But you see, that information is simply not known yet. Not because not disclosed, but because nobody knows. Leap is being designed now, and developers and packagers are thinking and deciding how to do it at the same time they are doing it and stumbling on the road stones. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlW1YwcACgkQja8UbcUWM1xfDQD6Ah93o0+TiTXWsxxsm1xwr2LT Xpx3+ElJmjfhWTSiacUBAJwxLga/jnwGFUbfGtILrWQYjLjfm0PwAwD3QwlPIsVv =znJs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le lundi 27 juillet 2015 à 08:49 +0200, Marcus Meissner a écrit :

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 03:21:32PM -0700, PatrickD Garvey wrote:

...

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 1:40 PM, jdd wrote:

...

I just found this page that may be related to the subject:

https://www.suse.com/support/policy.html

in summary:

"SUSE provides thirteen year product lifecycle for most products in SUSE Linux Enterprise 11 and SUSE Linux Enterprise 12."

I was still thinking the support was 7 years (and find this much!)

so if long term support for openSUSE is 3 or 5 years, it do not anymore compete with SUSE one :-)

And https://www.SUSE.com/lifecycle/ on the SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 row indicates "GENERAL SUPPORT ENDS" is TBD and "EXTENDED SUPPORT ENDS" is TBD While on the SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 12 indicates "GENERAL SUPPORT ENDS" is 31 Oct 2024 and "EXTENDED SUPPORT ENDS" is 31 Oct 2027. Further, if one selects the "SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 SP1" link, one is redirected to the "Overview | SUSE Desktop" page, https://www.SUSE.com/products/desktop/ and if one selects the "SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 12 SP1" link, one is redirected to the "SUSE Linux Enterprise Server" page, https://www.SUSE.com/products/server/

The desktop will probably have a different lifetime than the server, yes. The underlying core codebase is the same.

Just to confirm this: End of life of SLED12 codebase will happen 6 months after SLED 13 SP1 is released. We are working on fixing the website to display that.. -- Frederic Crozat Enterprise Desktop Release Manager SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le mardi 28 juillet 2015 à 11:16 +0200, jdd a écrit :

Le 28/07/2015 10:56, Frederic Crozat a écrit :

...

End of life of SLED12 codebase will happen 6 months after SLED 13 SP1 is released.

can you say a few words to explain how you can assume 13 years of support, when nobody knows really what will be the PC market in let only 3 years?

That is why we are doing service packs : to adapt to market requirements (including new hardware support). I wrote "SLED12 codebase", not "SLED 12 SP0". Each service pack is only supported 6 months after a new service pack is released. And the information I gave was about SLED, not SLES (which has a longer lifecycle than SLED and customers can even buy long term support if they need it). -- Frederic Crozat Enterprise Desktop Release Manager SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

...

It appears those who are providing the current information on that version are producing some website news pages and completely brand new wiki pages and Open Build System projects that are only pointed to by discussions in the opensuse-factory mailing list. I acknowledge there has been a posting in opensuse-announce of "The Name & Version for the new openSUSE Regular Release". (Thank you.)

May I suggest that https://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap needs the same rate of modification as https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Leap?

It's relatively easy to encounter pages with less than current information. Maybe there is an imbalance of (too much?) content and manpower. Rainer Fiebig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Jay wrote:

Am Sonntag, 26. Juli 2015, 16:23:55 schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

Fredag den 24. juli 2015 23:11:36 skrev Richard Brown:

...

On 24 July 2015 at 23:05, nirsuse wrote:

...

just curious after leap m1 was released is there a decision about the life cycle and the roadmap for the next releases (leap 4x.y) ?

But the very short version is

Leap releases will be aligned with SUSE Linux Enterprise versions

And as SUSE Linux Enterprise versions aren't announced years in advance, we won't be announcing Leap versions with any guarantee too far in advance

However, we should be able to share _PREDICTED_ schedules and such

If you want people to tour around the internet claming "long term support" (even if most of the software changes at random intervals of roughly 12-18 months), you need at least to come up with a minimum lifetime for the 42- series to have some credibility.

"At least 3 years" was thrown around many times. So I guess we can assume 42.x will be supported "at least until November 2018". Maybe it would be possible to add an additional promise of support for 6 or 12 months after the release of Leap 43 or similar, guaranteeing people some form of reasonable timeframe to upgrade to 43.

I agree that we should commit to a minimum duration of support now. Those interested in Leap deserve that information.

"At least 3 years" seems adequate to me at this stage. Definite announcement perhaps at launch.

Anything less than 3 years can not be considered "long-term" anyway.

My confusion relates to the point releases (service packs?). Assume for a minute Leap 42.1 comes out this fall, then the 42.2 service pack comes out next fall (2016) and the 42.3 service pack in fall 2017 and finally Leap 43 in fall 2018: What does it mean to say Leap 42.x will be supported until at least fall 2018? That users are mandated to upgrade to 42.2 and then 42.3 in the meantime to maintain support? Thus, I would like to know how long will 42.1 be supported without applying the "42.2 service pack". And separately how long will 42.x be supported if all service packs are applied? Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Mandag den 27. juli 2015 19:56:40 skrev Jay:

Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 12:31:42 schrieb Greg Freemyer:

...

What does it mean to say Leap 42.x will be supported until at least fall 2018? That users are mandated to upgrade to 42.2 and then 42.3 in the meantime to maintain support?

Thus, I would like to know how long will 42.1 be supported without applying the "42.2 service pack".

Aha!

...

And separately how long will 42.x be supported if all service packs are applied?

All good questions. How do you think it SHOULD be?

A few things are pretty clear. 1) The "service packs" will be mandatory. Otherwise you might end up with 3-4 different supported releases at any given time, which is just not going to happen. There will probably be something like a 6 month time frame to upgrade to the next "service pack". 2) It will never be possible to say exactly how long 42.1 is supported. That depends entirely on the whims of SLE business managers. But I guess we can rule out service packs coming more frequent than 12 month intervals. So all you can say is something along the lines of "we expect 42.2 to be released 12-18 months later, and 42.1 will be supported until the release 42.2+6 months". 3) It will never be possible to say exactly when the next major release will be. That will also depend on the whims of SLE business managers. All you can say is something along the lines of "42.x will be supported at least 3 years, and at least 6 months (or something) after the release of 43). Of course you can add that the base system will not have major changes in the major cycle, and thus installing the service packs should be pretty safe, especially on servers, where the service packs probably won't change much at all. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 20:32:10 schrieb Martin Schlander:

Mandag den 27. juli 2015 20:24:01 skrev Martin Schlander:

...

A few things are pretty clear.

1) The "service packs" will be mandatory. Otherwise you might end up with 3-4 different supported releases at any given time, which is just not going to happen. There will probably be something like a 6 month time frame to upgrade to the next "service pack".

2) It will never be possible to say exactly how long 42.1 is supported. That depends entirely on the whims of SLE business managers. But I guess we can rule out service packs coming more frequent than 12 month intervals. So all you can say is something along the lines of "we expect 42.2 to be released 12-18 months later, and 42.1 will be supported until the release 42.2+6 months".

Of course if we could give people a 12 month time frame to upgrade to/install the service pack, that would guarantee 42.1 a 2 year lifetime minimum.

A bit more leeway would perhaps be OK. But a servicepack is a servicepack and I think that most users would like to get the benefit of it and upgrade soon anyway.

And we would still "only" have two stable releases to maintain at any given time.

If manpower allows... Rainer Fiebig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 20:24:01 schrieb Martin Schlander:

Mandag den 27. juli 2015 19:56:40 skrev Jay:

...

Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 12:31:42 schrieb Greg Freemyer:

...

What does it mean to say Leap 42.x will be supported until at least fall 2018? That users are mandated to upgrade to 42.2 and then 42.3 in the meantime to maintain support?

Thus, I would like to know how long will 42.1 be supported without applying the "42.2 service pack".

Aha!

...

And separately how long will 42.x be supported if all service packs are applied?

All good questions. How do you think it SHOULD be?

A few things are pretty clear.

1) The "service packs" will be mandatory. Otherwise you might end up with 3-4 different supported releases at any given time, which is just not going to happen. There will probably be something like a 6 month time frame to upgrade to the next "service pack".

I think that would be OK with most users. Or not?

2) It will never be possible to say exactly how long 42.1 is supported. That depends entirely on the whims of SLE business managers. But I guess we can rule out service packs coming more frequent than 12 month intervals. So all you can say is something along the lines of "we expect 42.2 to be released 12-18 months later, and 42.1 will be supported until the release 42.2+6 months".

3) It will never be possible to say exactly when the next major release will be. That will also depend on the whims of SLE business managers. All you can say is something along the lines of "42.x will be supported at least 3 years, and at least 6 months (or something) after the release of 43).

OK - then let's say that Leap 42.x will be supported at least for 3 years. I think that would do for now.

Of course you can add that the base system will not have major changes in the major cycle, and thus installing the service packs should be pretty safe, especially on servers, where the service packs probably won't change much at all.

Sure. All in all that would look good to me. Rainer Fiebig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Mandag den 27. juli 2015 23:03:13 skrev jdd:

Le 27/07/2015 20:24, Martin Schlander a écrit :

...

Of course you can add that the base system will not have major changes in the major cycle, and thus installing the service packs should be pretty safe, especially on servers, where the service packs probably won't change much at all.

the solution is really there, if applying service pack is not worst than making zypper up, why should this be a problem?

But that is not the case. Installing the service packs will be like a normal distupgrade. I.e. you'll need to modify your repo URLs and run zypper dup, and hope that all your funky OBS home repos and packages exist for 42.2 also etc, and that the Nvidia blob repo has been published etc. The only way it'll differ from an old style distrupgrade afaict, is that the base system won't change too much, except probably the kernel in most service packs. Possibly the YaST Wagon module could make things easier. I don't know much about that. But of course first the user has to actually realize that a "service pack" is available, as I don't think the system will give any notification. So the user needs to not live under too many rocks and bushes, and keep an eye on what's going on. But of course that issue is nothing new - just when people hear "long term support", they might expect that means they can live under rocks and bushes for years, with no consequences. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Martin Schlander wrote:

Mandag den 27. juli 2015 23:03:13 skrev jdd:

...

Le 27/07/2015 20:24, Martin Schlander a écrit :

...

Of course you can add that the base system will not have major changes in the major cycle, and thus installing the service packs should be pretty safe, especially on servers, where the service packs probably won't change much at all.

the solution is really there, if applying service pack is not worst than making zypper up, why should this be a problem?

But that is not the case. Installing the service packs will be like a normal distupgrade. I.e. you'll need to modify your repo URLs and run zypper dup, and hope that all your funky OBS home repos and packages exist for 42.2 also etc, and that the Nvidia blob repo has been published etc.

The only way it'll differ from an old style distrupgrade afaict, is that the base system won't change too much, except probably the kernel in most service packs.

Possibly the YaST Wagon module could make things easier. I don't know much about that.

I used to test Wagon in 11.x days. It didn't have much value add over Zypper and I'd forgotten about it. Here's the old wiki page: https://old-en.opensuse.org/Wagon For the REPO management is says: === Ensure you have the the correct repositories enabled If not already running, start yast Click repository management Disable all repositories not 11.3 compatible Add these repo's by url: "openSUSE 11.3 Oss" - http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.3/repo/oss/ "openSUSE 11.3 Non-OSS" - http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.3/repo/non-oss "openSUSE 11.3 Updates" - http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.3/ Search for updated openSUSE 11.3 compatible third-party repositories and add them. WARNING: Use with caution. Using third-party repositories could increase the chances that the upgrade will not completing correctly. Exit Yast === That's not very automated. Maybe it works better in SLED? or SLES? Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-24 21:48, Richard Brown wrote:

On 24 July 2015 at 19:45, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

...

On 2015-07-24 19:22, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Yes, for software.opensuse.org you best create a pull request on github: https://github.com/openSUSE/software-o-o

Sorry, I have no idea about that, sounds Greek or Chinese to me. But perhaps you misunderstood: what I mean is that perhaps our web should have direct links, for the stable, tumbleweed, and Leap betas.

Perhaps you misunderstood. Coolo was giving the instructions required for you (or anyone else who wants to change the http://software.opensuse.org webpage) to make the changes you propose

Oh. Sorry, but no idea how to do that. I can't code a web page, and I have no idea what a pull request may be or what to do with it. I thought we had a team of web designers that did that? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWyvQIACgkQja8UbcUWM1wQ0QEAiUFoJt9Aaag1yfzWdka3YdzE GxniychmDnZX9TIJDd8A/idlXvxWwKtJZLUbpKPFSV4Dv2qea3+rpogf0Z0qlTap =pb8v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org