jdd wrote:

Le 11/06/2015 18:30, Robert Schweikert a écrit :

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is openSUSE definitely a community without a community manager ?

Yes it is.

well, it's sometime difficult to follow the stream...

the board have no task really affected to one people, at least here:

https://en.opensuse.org/Board

for example, I like this guy, but what is he doing, openSUSE related?

https://youtu.be/u844cs-V__Q?list=PL_AMhvchzBaeV36wYqnKb7xWAN0zfDfjz

Talking & dancing. According to Xing, since March 2015 he is "Team Lead Documentation Team" @ SUSE, prior to that he was a journalist/author/freelancer. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Robert Schweikert wrote:

Agustin does not work for SUSE anymore, but that has been a while and we as a community cannot really expect that SUSE makes announcements when people come and go.

If they have any significant involvement/presence wrt openSUSE, I think we can really expect that. Jos was announced when being bolted on as a community manager. When it was not announced that he'd left, there's a message in that by itself.

No, but again, why would we expect that personnel decisions by SUSE are announcement material on the openSUSE mailing lists?

Only when they have a more or less specific role in openSUSE.

Doug is here to help with marketing, organization of events, getting openSUSE Beer orders sorted out and all kinds of other stuff. Does it matter what his title is? Can he not just be Doug, the great guy that happens to work at SUSE and helps out with the project?

Hah, we're back to the missing organigram. Stop. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (24.4°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Robert Schweikert wrote:

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On 06/11/2015 02:31 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

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Robert Schweikert wrote:

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Agustin does not work for SUSE anymore, but that has been a while and we as a community cannot really expect that SUSE makes announcements when people come and go.

If they have any significant involvement/presence wrt openSUSE, I think we can really expect that. Jos was announced when being bolted on as a community manager. When it was not announced that he'd left, there's a message in that by itself.

Yes, the message is, things change.

I beg to differ. To me, the message reads "we don't care enough to tell you". Whoever sacked Jos or received his resignation, did not think it worthwhile to inform the openSUSE community that their SUSE appointed community manager had left. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Richard Brown wrote:

On 11 June 2015 at 20:55, Per Jessen wrote:

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I beg to differ. To me, the message reads "we don't care enough to tell you". Whoever sacked Jos or received his resignation, did not think it worthwhile to inform the openSUSE community that their SUSE appointed community manager had left.

It was announced, by the SUSE appointed community manager at the time:

http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2014/03/leaving-suse.html

Richard, making important announcements to the openSUSE community in one's own blog is, well, mind boggling. Pretty odd for both Jos and whoever paid his salary. No, unless it was posted to opensuse-project or opensuse-announcement, Jos' leaving was not announced to the openSUSE community. I found out through linkedin at some point. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (22.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/11/2015 03:46 PM, jdd wrote:

Le 11/06/2015 21:09, Richard Brown a écrit :

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On 11 June 2015 at 20:55, Per Jessen wrote:

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I beg to differ. To me, the message reads "we don't care enough to tell you". Whoever sacked Jos or received his resignation, did not think it worthwhile to inform the openSUSE community that their SUSE appointed community manager had left.

It was announced, by the SUSE appointed community manager at the time:

http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2014/03/leaving-suse.html

and I remember having read it, but I didn't read hat there would no more be somebody to make the job. It could have been somebody of the board, or somebody else, but anyway it often needs close (physical) connection with SUSE.

when things go well, we do not need any manager, but when they don't somebody have to start.

I tried, at my small level,

thank you for the start. Is this not the point in the end? If there is always someone there that gets paid and has @suse.com as their e-mail address how are we as a community ever going to learn to walk on our own? Especially in the areas of marketing and other not so technical areas. Yes, we are lacking right now, yes, we are discussing more than doing, and ... But I truly believe that we will emerge from this eventually with a functioning marketing part of the community that is not driven by someone that has @suse.com. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVeegJAAoJEE4FgL32d2Uk6aUIAKqOj6/L8SDitocdjSFwS9iN ObvCsveDU3zw1rVMO+UnjhmlaoSLzc6G6NmTIikXVGhLfDCSCHekSLtut3Wkmkyj ziTttk/W1/IOnvMfuyXSDQjwG08GjvLHfrSn6ITwGSwOPS3u6SoRUas/j0TDJg69 mnPJ04bqXCMIchhyaRPmRGJ1UKt6NJW5urd4dDJPi/xpcFU4+X/b75fgdeTR6Tc8 VGPfN8mgEeo8JYycToImoxKLquK7Mb53ayq168i9/Be7PC6IED82UCnNQza9KVB/ xitEOibCz5r54QwV71gdjTBIcpHh1mFv4iTt3e5eyD89wVoJwkEdodfo6r1nMIg= =bl6E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/06/15 18:30, Robert Schweikert wrote:

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is my first "key project question",

as Joss was hired for that a few years ago, did a lot of articles, marketing, noise for and around openSUSE, he "did the job" (2011 was a good marketing year, no?)

So are you saying we need a person with the title of community manager to do marketing?

thank you Robert for your answer to the main thread question, and : NO I was not saying "that we we need a person with the title of community manager to do marketing?" Five minutes ago, I found very great answers and actions around boosting (*) a community ... The job requires you to be creative and analytical, empathetic but data driven, a leader and a follower, a communicator and a listener, a people person but have technical skills, a thinker and an organizer. The community manager's job is to create a participatory environment -- the conditions where people are motivated to build and grow the community together. Communities are like gardens, which can whither away by applying too much pressure and the wrong amount of water. Instead of controlling every outcome and every activity, the community manager's job is to create a participatory environment -- the conditions where people are motivated to build and grow the community together. Just to explain what it can be ... (of course different & specific in each community) (*) (@Andy : it's in the dictionary ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday 12 June 2015 10.31:10 Cornelius Schumacher wrote:

On Thursday 11 June 2015 12:30:45 Robert Schweikert wrote:

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And if there are specific issues the governance structure declares the openSUSE Board as the instance of last decision. The board is of course also there to answer questions when help is needed.

The governance structure doesn't declare the board as instance of last decision. It's there to facilitate decision making, not to take decisions for the community. This is a very important distinction which is a key to a healthy community. I would hope that the board is very well aware of that.

Personally, I am ;-)

The much more important part is communication, and that's more than just answering questions, and it's also not about writing many and long emails. Establishing better transparency within the community regarding SUSE's involvement (e.g. the community manager role) would be one example.

Are you talking about dreams comes true ? :-))) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Board, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/06/15 20:10, Andrew Wafaa wrote:

The mailing lists are not the place for ramblings

since 2011, I never told you that kind of remark, even when you "wrote ramblings on this list, instead of putting it in you blog", (I like so much boomerang, and you ? same word in french and english, isn't it) ? and you're right, my native langage is not english but I understand my friend google when searching for community manager ... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org