[opensuse-project] Migrating mailing lists
Hi, We are currently planning out the migration from mlmmj to mailman 3. We have been discussing moving lists over from opensuse-$list@opensuse.org to $list@lists.opensuse.org (and potentially allowing subprojects to use their own domains), for both collision and aesthetic reasons. We would like to hear your input. Thanks in advance, LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 04 août 2020 à 21:28 +0200, Stasiek Michalski a écrit :
Hi,
We are currently planning out the migration from mlmmj to mailman 3. We have been discussing moving lists over from opensuse-$list@opensuse.org to $list@lists.opensuse.org (and potentially allowing subprojects to use their own domains), for both collision and aesthetic reasons. We would like to hear your input.
This means breaking a lot of filters for subscribers, potentially triggering spam filters. And depending on the mailing lists, there are scripts which are used to send mails to those mailing list. At minimum, there should be some redirections from "old email address" to "new mailing list address" to ensure those emails aren't lost. I understand the reasons but I'm wondering if the cons won't be worse than the pro. -- Frederic Crozat Release Manager SUSE Linux Enterprise SUSE N�����r��y隊Z)z{.��k�7��맲��r��z�^�ˬz��N�(�֜��^� ޭ隊Z)z{.��k�7���0�����Ǩ�
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 07:26, Frederic Crozat <FCrozat@suse.com> wrote:
This means breaking a lot of filters for subscribers, potentially triggering spam filters. And depending on the mailing lists, there are scripts which are used to send mails to those mailing list. At minimum, there should be some redirections from "old email address" to "new mailing list address" to ensure those emails aren't lost.
Redirecting the address is quite obvious, so I didn't even mention it ;) But yeah, I agree that filters are the most problematic, which is why I asked for the opinion of the project. With switching to mailman we might have had those issues anyway, which is why this might be the perfect moment though. LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 5. August 2020, 16:03:01 CEST schrieb Stasiek Michalski:
But yeah, I agree that filters are the most problematic, which is why I asked for the opinion of the project. With switching to mailman we might have had those issues anyway, which is why this might be the perfect moment though.
I expect both the subject tags like [opensuse-LISTNAME] and the X-Mailinglist header to stay the same. So only filters agains the mailing lists' email adresses would fail. vinz. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 5:08 PM Vinzenz Vietzke <vinz@vinzv.de> wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 5. August 2020, 16:03:01 CEST schrieb Stasiek Michalski:
But yeah, I agree that filters are the most problematic, which is why I asked for the opinion of the project. With switching to mailman we might have had those issues anyway, which is why this might be the perfect moment though.
I expect both the subject tags like [opensuse-LISTNAME] and the X-Mailinglist header to stay the same. So only filters agains the mailing lists' email adresses would fail.
No, those would change as well. This is what Mailman sends (as an example from Fedora's instance): * List-Id * Archived-At * List-Archive * List-Help * List-Post * List-Subscribe * List-Unsubscribe. As for the subject tag, I'm unsure how configurable that is, but Stasiek may be able to tweak it for legacy list ID format, though I wouldn't count on it. Most lists seem to be getting rid of it, though if we keep it, it'd use [$list] unless we fiddled with it somehow. Note that List-Id is recognized by Gmail and other web clients for filtering. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 6. August 2020, 23:40:42 CEST schrieb Neal Gompa:
* List-Id […]
Most lists seem to be getting rid of it, though if we keep it, it'd use [$list] unless we fiddled with it somehow.
Note that List-Id is recognized by Gmail and other web clients for filtering.
As currently there is no List-Id but only X-Mailinglist I expect some fallout here. Personally I have no problem to adapt my sieve filters to that. But we really need to let people know prior to a migration so their inbox won't get stuffed. If that is all I fully support the migration. vinz. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Vinzenz Vietzke wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 6. August 2020, 23:40:42 CEST schrieb Neal Gompa:
* List-Id […]
Most lists seem to be getting rid of it, though if we keep it, it'd use [$list] unless we fiddled with it somehow.
Note that List-Id is recognized by Gmail and other web clients for filtering.
As currently there is no List-Id but only X-Mailinglist I expect some fallout here.
I'm sure we can add 'X-Mailinglist', it's hardly much effort. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (21.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 17:40, Neal Gompa <ngompa13@gmail.com> wrote:
As for the subject tag, I'm unsure how configurable that is, but Stasiek may be able to tweak it for legacy list ID format, though I wouldn't count on it. Most lists seem to be getting rid of it, though if we keep it, it'd use [$list] unless we fiddled with it somehow.
I can change that anytime to anything, so it will probably just stay the same. Again, mailman is way too customizable compared to mlmmj ;) LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am 06.08.20 um 23:40 schrieb Neal Gompa:
Note that List-Id is recognized by Gmail and other web clients for filtering.
At least gmail also recognizes the curren mlmmj headers. I just have "list(opensuse-project)" as a filter condition in my gmail setup. So gmail will probably continue to work, as long as the mailing list name stays the same. But hey, even if this changes, having to change filters now once, after 10? 15? years is not that much of a problem. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 06.08.20 um 23:40 schrieb Neal Gompa:
Note that List-Id is recognized by Gmail and other web clients for filtering.
At least gmail also recognizes the curren mlmmj headers.
I just have "list(opensuse-project)" as a filter condition in my gmail setup.
So gmail will probably continue to work, as long as the mailing list name stays the same.
Part of the proposal is to change the mailing list names, for the ones named 'opensuse-list'.
But hey, even if this changes, having to change filters now once, after 10? 15? years is not that much of a problem.
+1 -- Per Jessen, Zürich (21.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed 2020-08-05, Frederic Crozat wrote:
This means breaking a lot of filters for subscribers,
A project I participate in moved from qmail/ezml to mailman 3 a bit ago, and indeed filter rules breaking was a bit annyoing. If headers for compatibility with the previous system could be added, that would be nice (X-Mailinglist for example). What I found and still find quite more annoying is the rewriting of the From: header, from From: Gerald Pfeifer <g...@p....com> to From: Gerald Pfeifer via Project <project@opensuse.org> Are you planning something like this for openSUSE? Gerald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
What I found and still find quite more annoying is the rewriting of the From: header, from From: Gerald Pfeifer <g...@p....com> to From: Gerald Pfeifer via Project <project@opensuse.org>
Are you planning something like this for openSUSE?
I certainly hope not, I would also find that most annoying. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (29.3°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen composed on 2020-08-07 18:23 (UTC+0200):
Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
What I found and still find quite more annoying is the rewriting of the From: header, from From: Gerald Pfeifer <g...@p....com> to From: Gerald Pfeifer via Project <project@opensuse.org>
Are you planning something like this for openSUSE?
I certainly hope not, I would also find that most annoying.
And I!!! -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:56 AM Gerald Pfeifer <gp@suse.com> wrote:
On Wed 2020-08-05, Frederic Crozat wrote:
This means breaking a lot of filters for subscribers,
A project I participate in moved from qmail/ezml to mailman 3 a bit ago, and indeed filter rules breaking was a bit annyoing.
If headers for compatibility with the previous system could be added, that would be nice (X-Mailinglist for example).
What I found and still find quite more annoying is the rewriting of the From: header, from From: Gerald Pfeifer <g...@p....com> to From: Gerald Pfeifer via Project <project@opensuse.org>
Are you planning something like this for openSUSE?
This is not planned. Fedora's instance doesn't rewrite the From header, and I expect we won't either. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue 2020-08-04, Stasiek Michalski wrote:
We are currently planning out the migration from mlmmj to mailman 3. We have been discussing moving lists over from opensuse-$list@opensuse.org to $list@lists.opensuse.org (and potentially allowing subprojects to use their own domains), for both collision and aesthetic reasons. We would like to hear your input.
For the benefit of the doubt, the following is my personal opinion. I applaud shortening the local part of the mail address, i.e., $list instead of $something-$list or $list-$something. I prefer only having opensuse appear once as part of the full address. Having used both @$domain and @lists.$domain in many contexts and projects over the past decade or two, I prefer the former, that is, $list@$domain over $list@lists.$domain. Gerald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Stasiek Michalski wrote:
Hi,
We are currently planning out the migration from mlmmj to mailman 3. We have been discussing moving lists over from opensuse-$list@opensuse.org to $list@lists.opensuse.org (and potentially allowing subprojects to use their own domains), for both collision and aesthetic reasons. We would like to hear your input.
As I mentioned last night, I think the proposed renaming is less than optimal for the language-specific support lists: opensuse-cz opensuse-de opensuse-el opensuse-es opensuse-fr opensuse-go opensuse-ha opensuse-hu opensuse-ja opensuse-pt opensuse-sl There is only one clash with opensuse.org forwarding addresses - With renaming, 'opensuse-security@opensuse.org' would become 'security@opensuse.org' which is currently forwarded to 'security@suse.de'. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (16.9°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/08/2020 11.30, Per Jessen wrote:
Stasiek Michalski wrote:
...
There is only one clash with opensuse.org forwarding addresses -
With renaming, 'opensuse-security@opensuse.org' would become 'security@opensuse.org' which is currently forwarded to 'security@suse.de'.
Huh? It should become 'security@lists.opensuse.org', so no problem. The problem that Frederic Crozat mentioned about scripts is rather important, though. And that particular list is peculiar, I think. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Dne úterý 4. srpna 2020 21:28:55 CEST, Stasiek Michalski napsal(a):
Hi, We are currently planning out the migration from mlmmj to mailman 3. We have been discussing moving lists over from opensuse-$list@opensuse.org to $list@lists.opensuse.org (and potentially allowing subprojects to use their own domains), for both collision and aesthetic reasons. We would like to hear your input.
It's very nice news! I just wonder about one thing. Mailman allows to login and setting various things. Will this be allowed? Will this use the central openSUSE login facility? Any chance to somehow automatically link existing accounts with subscribed addresses? -- Vojtěch Zeisek https://trapa.cz/ Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/
Hello, On Tue, 04 Aug 2020, Stasiek Michalski wrote:
We are currently planning out the migration from mlmmj to mailman 3. We have been discussing moving lists over from opensuse-$list@opensuse.org to $list@lists.opensuse.org (and potentially allowing subprojects to use their own domains), for both collision and aesthetic reasons. We would like to hear your input.
Let me quote the former list-owner (with my translation): ==== Wenn diese Liste über Mailman betrieben würde, dann würden wir den ganzen Tag nichts anderes machen als eine Menschenkette zum nächsten Computerladen aufrechtzuerhalten um RAM in einem konstanten fluss in lists.suse.com einzubauen ;) -- suse-linux-owner, ebenda ---- If this list were on mailman, we'd have a chain of people to the next computerstore all day long to ensure a constant flow of RAM to build into lists.suse.com ==== Is mailman 3 different? -dnh, yes, random sig ;) -- Linux is not a desktop OS for people whose VCRs are still flashing "12:00". -- Paul Tomblin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (11)
-
Carlos E. R. -
David Haller -
Felix Miata -
Frederic Crozat -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Neal Gompa -
Per Jessen -
Stasiek Michalski -
Stefan Seyfried -
Vinzenz Vietzke -
Vojtěch Zeisek