This mailing list is really not an appropriate place.
I am sorry for that. But I can not stand another no reason ban from the same person. So I thought everyone should know how are the users of #suse channel treated by [daemon]
I won't comment on whether the ban was fair or not as I was not watching the channel at the time. It does appear from a cursory glance at the logs that you continued to ask the same question several times after being given an answer and a link to read several times too, with no indication you were listening to the answers.
That might be true ... but there is saying in Slovak language I try to translate: "Repeating is mother of knowledge" and if only answer from [daemon] is ban when I ask again for more specific help, then I just dont know ... [daemon] actually even did not send me the link ... it was another user. And it was link to tldp.org ... the howto I have got printed before me on my desktop. The theme of "conversation" was different... nevermind.
Official statement [daemon] gave to me - "I don't like idiots who don't listen" or something like that. And that he's giving me some lesson... I think the reason and "my crime against rules" was that I asked for help and maybe disagreed with [daemon], and I still disagree ... If disagreement and asking for help is a reason to ban user from channel, then this OP [daemon] is either frustrated that he will spend christmas alone and must compensate this on IRC or something, or he is some kind of comunist fighting against DEMOCRACY, or I don't know... But there is one thing I know for sure. Even if [daemon] is some "project VIP" this kind of man has nothing to do as OP in #suse channel.
Even if you were correct and the ban was the result of a misunderstanding that is no reason to attack the person directly. [daemon] has helped in the channel for years and also helped
Still, [daemon] started to insult me first - just check the log and see the truth. I have learned much 'bout my first ban from [daemon] about half year ago, so I did not started to insult this time, it was he who started. Still ... nevermind. The point is, OP should not insult anyone in the channel... Maybe he is tired of noobie questions and so on... so maybe its time for fresh blood in OPs lines ;)
I am not talking just about myself and my "ban without meaning", but about his continuous arogance, intolerance and rude behaviour againts linux newbies or totally new people to linux-community.
That has not been my observation.
But I observing it . . . it's happening when some noob ask noobie questions... and its a nigthmare when I see [daemon] is active on channel
I agree, and endeavour to be as polite and tolerant as possible, and only ban when allowing someone to remain in the channel would reduce the channel's effectiveness. In #suse we are actually far more permissive than most channels, some policing must be done though, or the trolls make the channel unusable.
good to read at least one "I agree" :) but I still dont see the reason why kick/ban user when he is conversating on topic on the channel, which is channels' purpose isn't it?
The ban was not for long, you can soon rejoin. [daemon] has given up his time to help people and police the channel for many years. I'm also not sure what you mean by "officially demand". The #suse channel is unofficial, [daemon] is one of the oldest channel members.
The question is: Do I want to rejoin after two "no reason ban incidents?" or even better Would some "#suse channel first-timer" want to rejoin after something this discouraging? I am answering YES. Cause I try to oversee people like [daemon] all my life, who fully enjoy the POWER they have, even if its small and pointless power, and who respect no one lower than their level of experiences and knowledge... Nevertheless, I respect [daemon] for what hi did and still doing for #suse, but disagreement is not disrespect.
Thank you very much for reply Best wishes KaiSVK
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On Saturday 23 December 2006 18:12, Jozef Peterka wrote:
This mailing list is really not an appropriate place.
Agree.
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On 12/24/06, Rajko M. rmatov101@charter.net wrote:
On Saturday 23 December 2006 18:12, Jozef Peterka wrote:
This mailing list is really not an appropriate place.
Agree.
To be clear though, complaining about single events that happened on IRC is not of interest in this list.
I do however think that issues that have an impact on the public perception of the project are valid topics for this list. It should be a place of last resort however.
We had a similar post a while back with someone complaining that responses to their Bug Report were rude .
It is healthy to for the community to reflect and scrutinise its collective actions, and modify them if necessary.
Pflodo Peter Flodin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 24 December 2006 16:56, Peter Flodin wrote:
I do however think that issues that have an impact on the public perception of the project are valid topics for this list. It should be a place of last resort however.
I agree about that too, but Josef was able to see Benji's answer what is proper place to complain about #suse chanel and repeated complaint was just not necessary. If that would be just thank you mail to Benji, I wouldn't felt need to reply.
In my perception we can't judge what well established, long living #suse and a group of people around do. What they will tolerate and how they will handle situations is up to them. It is for me the same as complaint here about any forum that has "suse" in the name and doesn't represent openSUSE community, like #opensuse IRC channel.
The other reason was some elements in Josef's reply that lead me to believe that he was a part of the problem ("Repeating is mother of knowledge"), not only the other side, so I decided to post as I did.
Anyway, thank you for noticing lack of details that could give wrong impression if reader is not familiar with all uses of word "suse", that I (we) don't care. I (we) do, but for "opensuse".
Rajko M. a écrit :
In my perception we can't judge what well established, long living #suse and a group of people around do. What they will tolerate and how they will handle situations is up to them. It is for me the same as complaint here about any forum that has "suse" in the name and doesn't represent openSUSE community, like #opensuse IRC channel.
I completely disagree, sorry.
mastering any kind of internet medium is tedious. Some channels (not only IRC's) happen to hold rude people (do you remember how Houghi left opensuse?) that can ban or make somebody leave without real reason, may be only because they where on a bad mood this very day.
We all know right here some unvaluable openSUSE members that sometimes can become extremely childish and harsh (I may be one of them :-().
the community as a hole must have some places to discuss this.
once banned in any manner, there is no more chance to any people to ask, and this is a reason to have an other channel, preferably on an other medium, to ask.
this in no way is an advice on this precise case, only a general rule of thumb.
as an example, I remember a news channel (not opensuse, but Linux) where I never could post, any post I sent was rejected for a reason or an other when many other posts where really similar :-)
we must specially take account of _newbies_. Many newbies infringe forum rules by lack of knowledge (I find top posting specially tedious :-), teach them is sometimes pretty boring, but somebody have to do it :-))
jdd
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jdd sur free -
Jozef Peterka -
Peter Flodin -
Rajko M.