Jim Henderson wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:37:56 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:

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But if there's no meaning to agreeing to those principles, then why have them?

To indicate intent and direction.

I agree this discussion is overall for another time and place.

But as food for thought for when that conversation does take place, consider that if someone isn't following that guidance, they're probably not (in some way) following that intent/direction, which would seem to me to be problematic.

There is room for quite a bit of debate here - take the topic that started this, the expulsion of an openSUSE member for violating the _guiding_ principles. That in itself is very problematic. Wrt time and place, now is as good as any and this list is quite appropriate, albeit in a new thread. Let me start with saying that I think the guiding principles are fine and I don't think they need changing. However, IMHO, they are not formulated in a way that makes it possible to expel someone for not following them. They are worded in terms of "We are ..., we want to ... , we value ...". That's perfectly fine for a set of "guiding principles", but doesn't even come close to e.g. a code of conduct. There is no need to discuss the current "case" any further, but I think we need to ask ourselves this - are the guiding principles really good/clear enough to form the base of someone being expelled? To me, they're guidance only and nowhere near clear enough to form the base of any kind of punitive action. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-3.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org