On July 31, 2015 8:06:43 AM EDT, Antoine Ginies <aginies(a)suse.com> wrote: This may be a place openSUSE needs to show its independence from SUSE. The privacy issues associated with that link show an invasion of privacy worse than Google's. Further, it appears retroactive so this affects anyone that logs into a Microsoft online account: sky-drive, office365, etc independent of them upgrading to Windows 10. Further, if you exchange emails with anyone that logs into a Microsoft online account Microsoft has good even themselves authority to read that email and use it to build your profile. I use Windows 7 at work. I rarely log into a Microsoft online account, but I have one for various reasons. The new privacy policy seems to give Microsoft the right to mine my computer for information 7x24 as long as it keeps it local to my PC, then on the rare occasion I log into my Microsoft online account, upload all the profile info to MS. I know Google does similar things. I don't know how to truly preserve my privacy, but staying off of Windows as much as possible seems like one step I can actually do. Thus I fully support Jay's vision. Greg -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-31 16:26, Jay wrote: openSUSE doesn't have a partnership with Microsoft. SUSE does. Whether it makes a sufficient difference, that's another matter... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

On 2015-07-31 17:15, Frederic Crozat wrote: That's a fair point :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Jay, Don't jump ship too fast. Watch the discussion you initiated at a minimum. main openSUSE lists in the last 2 1/2 years and it was the one you just read: http://opensuse.markmail.org/search/?q=+from%3A%22Antoine+Ginies%22 There is no reason to assume he has any influence over the openSUSE project. ie. Just because a random SUSE employee says jump, it doesn't mean the openSUSE community says "How high?" If Antoine wants to use his SUSE position to influence openSUSE he has to work through Richard Brown (openSUSE chair and official SUSE representative to openSUSE). Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Jay <MyMailClone(a)t-online.de> wrote: -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

Hi All, While I'm really pleased and encouraged to see such a passionate discussion about Marketing openSUSE, including targeting very specific areas of opportunity, I want to provide some food for thought which hopefully sheds some light on my _personal opinion_ where we should be expending our efforts As this thread has started with Windows 10, lets spend a second thinking about Microsoft's motivation for making Windows 10 Microsoft make Windows 10 to make money More users means Microsoft get more money So Microsoft's primary marketing audience is users, in order to get more users, in order to make more money Does it make sense for openSUSE to target that same primary audience? I'd argue No but it's nothing to do with Microsoft partnering with SUSE or even Microsoft's recent and growing contributions to the Linux ecosystem in general It's a simple case of considering *openSUSE's* motivation for existing openSUSE does not make openSUSE to make money More consumer users does not mean more money In fact, it can be argued that typical consumer users bring additional 'costs', requiring more infrastructure and help in order to support them. Should openSUSE's primary marketing audience be standard consumer users? I'd believe the correct answer to that question is No So why do we make openSUSE? There's lots of reasons, we're a diverse community, but I would say one over-arching theme that is true for the vast majority of us is "we make openSUSE to make & use better technology" Contributors developing to the openSUSE Project make openSUSE and tools like OBS and openQA in an effort to make the best engineered Linux distributions and tools in the world Many users of openSUSE, be they sysadmins, developers, or power users are often drawn to openSUSE because of our well engineered products, but also because they want to build _their own_ projects upon the best software, the best tools, and the best engineering. This might be something as 'simple' as their personal workstation, or a small raspberry Pi project, or as complicated as a geo-cluster hosted in several datacenters around the world. It doesn't matter about the scale of the use, I'd say that the reason most people are drawn to openSUSE is that good engineering backbone which forms the foundation of everything we do. Sysadmins want the best engineered Linux to run their machines and their administration terminals, with the tools to make their life as easy as possible.. Developers want the best engineered Linux to run their dev machines, test servers, and productiong systems, with the tools and the latest development stacks provided as easily possible. And there are many other people who are often categorised as 'Power users' who overlap or aspire to be with those two other categories to varying degrees, who want a powerful operating system, well engineered and reliable, so they can get whatever their work is done. All three of these groups are likely to be very passionate about what they use, and are likely to share that with like-minded people they meet and talk to. All three of these groups are technically minded, and are therefore more likely to be able and willing to contribute back to our open source project than a standard consumer use who just wants something that works, and has no deeper interest than that. All three of these groups want both stable technologies they can rely on, and the latest and greatest innovations so they can have an edge to solve the problems they face in their own projects. Embracing these realities and focusing the marketing of openSUSE accordingly is the concept the Board calls "The Makers Choice" openSUSE already builds openSUSE to provide the best Linux and tools for themselves and anyone else who wants to build upon them. We already have OBS, openQA and other tools, as well as Tumbleweed, and soon we will have Leap, which all fit into a very strong narrative around this theme. More *contributors* mean we can build more, build better and find more people to help is build even more, and build even better. I strongly believe our primary audience should therefore be these 'Makers' - Developers, sysadmins, and power users. People should want to use our open source technologies to build great things, either for themselves or for everyone else. We should focus our marketing on making it very obvious to these people that we are the right choice for them, for all of the reasons I outline above. This audience contains people who are much more likely and easily going to transition from just using openSUSE to using AND contributing to openSUSE, and this will help us build and continue momentum going forward. And when we're doing this, building great things with what I've described above us our *Primary* focus, I would expect that we'll be well positioned to also appeal strongly to a *Secondary* audience of consumer users, who may just want to use openSUSE because it's better than everything else. And that's fine, great, and I look forward to that day - but lets spend the majority of our time and effort focusing where we get the most benefit, which in my opinion really means embracing the concept of 'The Makers Choice' and using it as a strong guide to direct our marketing efforts for the next years. Regards, Richard On 31 July 2015 at 16:26, Jay <MyMailClone(a)t-online.de> wrote: -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

And if we do that then what? It's like throwing all translators, artists, people on the marketing team etc (who many of them might not be power users) under the bus. It's like saying thanks for all your trouble and what you do for openSUSE but yeah our distro is not for you. On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org> wrote: -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-08-02 14:50, Richard Brown wrote: Well, no, most of them do not use svn or checkouts/commits, not even POT files :-) Only a few of them use those tools. Most of them use the Vertaal web interface, which hides those details. Then they use some high level tool to translate the po file, like lokalize. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

Op maandag 3 augustus 2015 09:59:05 schreef Efstathios Iosifidis: I am quite happy with downloading/updating the pot files using svn. If I see a changed pot file i run my own, rather simple script, to update the po files of my language. Later I use svn commit to update the po files on the server. Now, while 100% of lcn and yast has been translated, it is rather easy to keep it that way. I do not need a system like Vertaal to assist me. -- fr.gr. Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-08-03 17:35, PatrickD Garvey wrote: Why would you need to know who translates what? :-? Or did I misunderstood the question? That depends on the particular language team. Some are a single person affair, or two. They simply can't. Some are very numerous, and can have people doing a verification pass of files. But as rewards are scarce, they often tire out and stop verificating. Well, the translator team, the one in the translation mail list, basically only translates software, not documentation, nor the wiki. As an exception, we translate important web pages on request, but we typically ask for the text to be given to us in a specific format we can handle (.pot files). There is another team that translates the wiki. Possibly the people in both teams be the same, or not. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-08-02 15:00, Richard Brown wrote: Well, hardware makers could be enticed to provide machines with openSUSE already installed. Currently you can find them with Ubuntu, and SLED. Or when we get a printer or whatever, and download software for it, the typical target and documentation is "Ubuntu". I would like to see openSUSE there. This will only happen if we increase our user base. And, some of those that come may eventually become contributors. With time. If they go to Ubuntu, they will not :-p - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

Sorry Richard. I'm just a desktop user. I'm not a power user. There are plenty of openSUSE users who are not power users. We just want a stable and functional systems. Yes we can manage our systems most of the time. But we are not power users. I rarely use the CLI. I use YAST. I am not familiar with the intricacies of the CLI. I am not alone. Richard. Don't toss us under the bus. We've been using opneSUSE for years and years. Steven -- ____________ Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice. Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22 Owner Flex-1500 and Flex-3000 Flex-6300, FT-857D, FT-817ND openSUSE Linux 13.1 KDE, Tumbleweed KDE with Packman Known as FlameBait and The Sock Puppet of Doom. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

Le 02/08/2015 16:21, Richard Brown a wrote : The sentence that end your post (quoted), do not say nothing about power user or makers (I like this sentence, begin it by "as a project")... I think people join a project to have they work spread to as many users as possible. The first time (well before joining openSUSE, it was in the 90's) than somebody asked me "can you host your docs in my web site", my answer was "why?" and he said: "to get more visibility and readers" and I went there. http://www.linux-france.org/article/jdanield/ I stopped to contribute to the wiki when my work was destroyed by "wiki team" wanting to "make order". Removing *and deleting* the french forum confirmed I was right not to trust openSUSE for this. I now store my doc myself. One of the first thing I learned about the web is "do not ever delete a web page". Notice I'm not offended by that, I just regret to have lost some doc. The word "marketing" is misleading, we should not use it at all. As you said, openSUSE do not make money (let SUSE do that), so have no market. We have to ask us how we can make people comfortable in the openSUSE project. In the open source world, every body do exactly what he wants no what you (or me) want. People that interest us for the project are not developers, they will come if we give them interesting tools, that's all. You will never make ubuntu devs come in openSUSE with marketing arguments. they will open an OBS account, but continue work in ubuntu. What we need are some people that accept to work in a *team* to make openSUSE "something special", following the goals of the project, not they own goal. I sincerely think that the only thing that can make people accept to work for non personal interest is to reach the larger audience possible. "Come and work with us, working as part of the openSUSE project will make YOU part of something special, the openSUSE project..." And, by the way, I'm of this sort and I will continue to work for the openSUSE project, as long as I think it's special :-) thanks for your own work and the momentum you give to the project jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB(a)opensuse.org> wrote: Given that we are talking about project promotion or distribution promotion. The only thing so far that matches an effort on that end is the request to create backgrounds for the release of 42. What else are we looking to do with this push to entice this audience? I mean, we can discuss the benefits/drawbacks of what target audience we want to work with, but the fact is also that we have no concrete requests to get something done. If we mean graphical work, there has been 0 requests. What or how are we looking to use to promote this focus on power users? -- Andy (anditosan) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB(a)opensuse.org> wrote: Oh sorry, I just basically mean that we don't have anything to promote the new focus on power users as of right now. -- Andy (anditosan) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB(a)opensuse.org> wrote: So, once again, some people who contribute mightily to improve the accessibility of the openSUSE project, the translators, are told they must adopt a new workflow to continue to contribute, "Do you wanna contribute providing translation for the new openSUSE website?" This is the part of your "we need one person to _just start doing it_" theory that does not hold up. It's possible not even the Big Bang happened without an installed base. There was the wiki, which developed some support for translation, then there was https://activedoc.opensuse.org/ which didn't seem to ever acquire real support for translators and now a git based website with do-it-yourself translation, if any. You know when your current workforce is treated as second-class citizens to the newcomers, no matter how shiny the new contribution is, it may lose the project some productivity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org> wrote: Are you referring to how the wiki came to be translated, or how the new git-based web presence will be translated? I am most interested in your view of how the new site will be translated. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org> wrote: Thank you and the other translators for making the effort to keep translation a significant part of what makes openSUSE unique. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 2:09 AM, Vincent Moutoussamy <vmoutoussamy(a)suse.com> wrote: Perhaps you can help me, I'm trying to figure out what I should follow to be well informed about the trajectory of the openSUSE project. Have you found a single best avenue of communication consistently used by the openSUSE project community to communicate what is happening within the project? The only postings I even vaguely remember about this new website have been Richard's postings here, on the opensuse-project mailing list. Where is the discussion of how this effort was proceeding? Was it all irc or person-to-person email? The result is great looking, but if the translators had to raise their collective hands to get adequate translation support, what other important subset of the community has not had the opportunity to influence the design? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-08-04 09:49, Cornelius Schumacher wrote: I agree :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

On Friday 31 of July 2015 15:44:01 Jim Henderson wrote: Definitely. IBM is also our partner; does that stop us from competing with SLES against AIX? Sure, we shouldn't promote our product by saying "theirs is total crap" but, well, we shouldn't do so even if there was no partnership. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

Ginies: Of course openSUSE is another world, with different rules, i am not against doing some coparison with Microsoft Windows 10 OS, but from my POV we should not just shoot on Microsoft, this should be a constructive comparison, pointing and offering another solution. People using Windows will not switch to a Linux distribution just because of privacy. If it was the case Apple's guy will have already switch to Linux, which is not the case. regards -- Antoine Ginies <aginies(a)suse.com> Project Manager SUSE France SUSECon.com 2015 Registration Now Open! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

Stefan Seyfried: VMDP drivers are supported by SUSE, not by Microsoft. We do SVVP on them, and they are signed by Microsoft. They don't help us, but this was the only way to do.... And yes this is monopoly, but i don't think there is way to change that... -- Antoine Ginies <aginies(a)suse.com> Project Manager SUSE France SUSECon.com 2015 Registration Now Open! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org