6 Dec
2006
6 Dec
'06
10:44 a.m.
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while avoiding and opposing
the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by
threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the
past.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did
their best to circumvent the intent of the GPL. Does this set the tone
for the future, especially with respect to the likely adoption of GPL v3
terms to close the holes exploited by Microsoft through Novell in this
case? How do we know whether Novell will continue down this course they
have set and work against the interests of the community? If Microsoft
starts threatening more actively, which this license from Novell seems
to encourage them to do, which side is Novell on? Will Novell campaign
against the best interests of the community in the fighting patenting of
Free technologies?
Ray Whitmer
ray(a)jhax.net
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6 Dec
6 Dec
8:28 a.m.
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 08:44:29AM -0700, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while
avoiding and opposing
the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
Wow, luckily the question is not biased. When did you stop beating your
spouce/partner/mother?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect
open projects by
threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the
past.
Unanswerd? This has been answerd before and the answer is yes.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact
that they did
<snip more biased questions.>
So when have you pretended to stop drowning kittens?
houghi
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1:44 p.m.
houghi wrote:
Please, show me where you think it has been adequately answered. How
can Novell reconcile the apparently-conflicting pledges, as has been
brought up in many places?
Since the announcements
seemed to go on about what they had to do to
get around the GPL, it was clear they were doing what they could to get
around the clearly stated principles of the GPL. I had expected a
better response from the rank and file of your company because they have
generally not been the problem in the past blunders.
Do you think this sort of approach will cause the problem you have
created to go away?
Ray Whitmer
ray(a)jhax.net
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On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 08:44:29AM -0700, Ray David
Whitmer wrote:
If it is only the truth that is automatically biased against you, that
is sad, and sad that a straw man is all you can set up to answer it.
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of
its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its
product?
How do I avoid supporting this sort of anti-free-software action?
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while
avoiding and opposing
the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
Wow, luckily the question is not biased. When did you stop beating your
spouce/partner/mother?
2. Can/will
Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by
threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the
past.
Unanswerd? This has been answerd before and the answer is yes.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the
fact that they did
<snip more biased questions.>
So when have you pretended to stop drowning kittens?
11:13 a.m.
To Ray David Whitmer: Don't mail me directly.
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 11:44:36AM -0700, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
houghi wrote:
<some stuff I wrote>
<snip drivel that has already be answerd and is just trollbait>
I had expected a
better response from the rank and file of your company because they have
generally not been the problem in the past blunders.
I must have mised that part of the deal that Novell is now my company. As
I am clearly Øwner of this company, I also Øwn this list and demand that
the reply-to is set as it was in the past. :-D
houghi
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12:17 p.m.
* houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org> [12-06-06 11:13]:
I also Øwn this list and demand that the reply-to is
set as it was in
the past. :-D
YOU have been there and know better.....
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11:28 a.m.
Ray David Whitmer wrote (@ Quarta, 6 de Dezembro de 2006 18:44):
houghi wrote:
No, there is nothing like that in the agreement AFAIK. What happen was that
Microsoft's CEO tried to imply that Novell had signed the agreement because
it felt Linux was infringing Microsoft IP. Novell CEO has promptly responded
(the message was sent to the list and is very much worth reading) that it was
not true and stated Novell position's on the agreement. Then, Microsoft
stated that they "agreed to disagree".
Either way, this is all oral crap. It has no pratical effects, other than
trying to get people bashing Novell and Suse. Yeah, it seems that Microsoft
was an ass and tried to harm Novell. But maybe something good will come up
out of this as the agreement still stands. What the agreement says has legal
implications. The reasons why any of the parties signed it has none.
Cheers,
Ricardo
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 08:44:29AM -0700, Ray
David Whitmer wrote:
If it is only the truth that is automatically biased against you, that
is sad, and sad that a straw man is all you can set up to answer it.
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of
its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its
product?
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while
avoiding and opposing
the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of
Microsoft?
Wow, luckily the question is not biased. When did you stop beating your
spouce/partner/mother? How do I avoid supporting this sort of
anti-free-software action?
Please, show me where you think it has been adequately answered. How
can Novell reconcile the apparently-conflicting pledges, as has been
brought up in many places?
Since the announcements seemed to go on about what they had to do to
get around the GPL, it was clear they were doing what they could to get
around the clearly stated principles of the GPL. I had expected a
better response from the rank and file of your company because they have
generally not been the problem in the past blunders.
Do you think this sort of approach will cause the problem you have
created to go away?
Ray Whitmer
ray(a)jhax.net
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2.
Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by
threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the
past.
Unanswerd? This has been answerd before and the answer is yes. 3. Not
even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did
<snip more biased questions.>
So when have you pretended to stop drowning kittens? 
7 Dec
7 Dec
7:24 p.m.
On 2006-12-06 12:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
<snip>
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of
its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its
product?
True or false:
As part of the interoperability issue, Novell may need to incorporate
Microsoft-patented code into its non-OSS packages, for example an
extension or two to OOo, or something in some Mono module, or whatever.
Is The Wicked Witch of The West not entitled to remuneration for Novell
using that code?
--
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7:31 p.m.
New subject: [opensuse-project] Unnanswered questions regarcing Novell-Microsoft agreements
On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 18:24 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 2006-12-06 12:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
I doubt that Novell will include anything from M$ that it can't GPL
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<snip>
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of
its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its
product?
True or false:
As part of the interoperability issue, Novell may need to incorporate
Microsoft-patented code into its non-OSS packages, for example an
extension or two to OOo, or something in some Mono module, or whatever.
Is The Wicked Witch of The West not entitled to remuneration for Novell
using that code?
7 Jan
7 Jan
2:27 p.m.
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006, James Tremblay wrote:
I doubt that Novell will include anything from M$ that
it can't GPL
Note that Novell cannot GPL (if this means "put under the GPL")
contributions where it does not own the copyright.
As to what we can include in our distributions, GPL definitely is not
a requirement. We ship many packages under the BSD or X11 licenses,
for example,
These technicalities/legalities aside, I certainly agree with you. I
personally consider this unlikely as well and extremely unlikely if it
involves contributions to existing packages as opposed to some new
package.
Gerald (not speaking for Novell)
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8 Dec
8 Dec
2:54 a.m.
Am Friday 08 December 2006 01:24 schrieb Darryl Gregorash:
On 2006-12-06 12:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
I have some doubt that we will do this, because of a number of rationals. But
I can not guranatee this for 100% right now.
However, what i can more or less guarantee, is that such modules/plugins, will
not be part of the standard oss part of the distribution. It would be part of
the non-oss add-on CD, if at all. So it will also be optional.
bye
adrian
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SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany
email: adrian(a)suse.de
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<snip>
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of
its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its
product?
True or false:
As part of the interoperability issue, Novell may need to incorporate
Microsoft-patented code into its non-OSS packages, for example an
extension or two to OOo, or something in some Mono module, or whatever.
Is The Wicked Witch of The West not entitled to remuneration for Novell
using that code? 
2:18 p.m.
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 18:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
How do I avoid supporting this sort of
anti-free-software action?
Er, leave the mailing list, and stop flogging a dead horse?
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2:21 p.m.
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 19:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of
its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its
product?
False.
That was easy, next question
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6 Dec
6 Dec
8:31 a.m.
Ray David Whitmer wrote (@ Quarta, 6 de Dezembro de 2006 15:44):
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while
avoiding and opposing
the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by
threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the
past.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did
their best to circumvent the intent of the GPL.
What happen? That's big news. I have not been able to follow slashdot, so I
mostly follow what's posted here. Please post the developments.
Cheers,
Ricardo
Does this set the tone
for the future, especially with respect to the likely adoption of GPL v3
terms to close the holes exploited by Microsoft through Novell in this
case? How do we know whether Novell will continue down this course they
have set and work against the interests of the community? If Microsoft
starts threatening more actively, which this license from Novell seems
to encourage them to do, which side is Novell on? Will Novell campaign
against the best interests of the community in the fighting patenting of
Free technologies?
Ray Whitmer
ray(a)jhax.net
--
"It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and I'm wearing Milkbone
underwear."
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8:26 a.m.
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 01:31:45PM +0000, Ricardo Cruz wrote:
Ray David Whitmer wrote (@ Quarta, 6 de Dezembro de
2006 15:44):
The original poster is just a troll, all points have been brought up multiple times and
refuted here and by official statements from us.
Ciao, Marcus
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1. How does one support Suse as a customer while
avoiding and opposing
the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by
threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the
past.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did
their best to circumvent the intent of the GPL.
What happen? That's big news. I have not been able to follow slashdot, so I
mostly follow what's posted here. Please post the developments. 
9:02 a.m.
http://fmbv.blogspot.com/2006/12/do-you-want-some-cheese-with-whine.html
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1:52 p.m.
Jan Karjalainen wrote:
http://fmbv.blogspot.com/2006/12/do-you-want-some-cheese-with-whine.html
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I have had such respect for Suse in the past, I have to believe there is
some part of the past Suse legacy that is deeply ashamed of this sort of
behavior by the current caretakers of it. They must have seen it
coming, since it is far from the first time Novell has pulled this sort
of thing with acquired companies.
The attitude displayed here tells the whole story.
Ray Whitmer
ray(a)jhax.net
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11:26 a.m.
On 12/6/06, Ray David Whitmer <ray(a)jhax.net> wrote:
Jan Karjalainen wrote:
As many have already stated. This has been asked/posted/debated and
the inner circle of the SUSE team have responded.
There are a lot of OS/Desktop choices based on GNU/Linux. That is the
great thing about Open Source. If you do not agree with the direction
that one distro is going in -- then the easiest thing to do is switch
to another one with which you do agree with. Gnome/KDE and the apps
work the same more or less on all of them.
--
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the surest stepping stones to success." - Dale Carnegie
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I have had such respect for Suse in the past, I have to believe there is
some part of the past Suse legacy that is deeply ashamed of this sort of
behavior by the current caretakers of it. They must have seen it
coming, since it is far from the first time Novell has pulled this sort
of thing with acquired companies.
The attitude displayed here tells the whole story.
Ray Whitmer
ray(a)jhax.net
10:47 a.m.
Hi Ray,
I think these questions where answered in previous postings, or in the FAQs.
Do you have read the mails on this topic in the archive ?
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/
FAQs:
http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html
http://www.novell.com/en-en/linux/microsoft/faq.html
Am Wednesday 06 December 2006 16:44 schrieb Ray David Whitmer:
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while
avoiding and opposing
the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by
threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the
past.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did
their best to circumvent the intent of the GPL. Does this set the tone
for the future, especially with respect to the likely adoption of GPL v3
terms to close the holes exploited by Microsoft through Novell in this
case? How do we know whether Novell will continue down this course they
have set and work against the interests of the community? If Microsoft
starts threatening more actively, which this license from Novell seems
to encourage them to do, which side is Novell on? Will Novell campaign
against the best interests of the community in the fighting patenting of
Free technologies?
Ray Whitmer
ray(a)jhax.net
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--
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SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany
email: adrian(a)suse.de
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5127
days inactive
5159
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17 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Anders Johansson -
D Gavrilovic -
Darryl Gregorash -
Gerald Pfeifer -
houghi -
James Tremblay -
Jan Karjalainen -
Kevin Donnelly -
Marcus Meissner -
Patrick Shanahan -
Ray David Whitmer -
Ricardo Cruz