[opensuse-project] Tumbleweed status & how to promote it

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Jos Poortvliet

31 Jan 2011 31 Jan '11

17:41

Hi all, I have some questions about Tumbleweed. First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset? Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1]) Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed? Eg some tickbox on installation or in our package management system? Obviously, I love Tumbleweed - for the slightly-more-experienced linux user and for those who love the latest & greatest it is awesome - and this happens to be a pretty big chunk of our target usergroup :D On a personal note, I also love Tumbleweed because I think rolling-release stuff rocks - I come from Arch and frankly it's the major thing I loved about it. Cheers, Jos [1] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Talking_points#Why_openSUSE

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Greg KH

31 Jan 31 Jan

18:45

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

Hi all,

I have some questions about Tumbleweed.

First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?

I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed. If anyone knows of a way to not do this, please let me know and I will be glad to test it out, but so far in my testing, this seems needed.

...

Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1])

Yes, I think so.

...

Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed? Eg some tickbox on installation or in our package management system?

A "one-click-install" should be provided, that should be all that is needed. I don't know about installation time just yet, maybe 11.5/12.0 might be good for that, if at all.

...

Obviously, I love Tumbleweed - for the slightly-more-experienced linux user and for those who love the latest & greatest it is awesome - and this happens to be a pretty big chunk of our target usergroup :D

On a personal note, I also love Tumbleweed because I think rolling-release stuff rocks - I come from Arch and frankly it's the major thing I loved about it.

Great, glad to hear it. Oh, one question for you, how do I go about getting some artwork for the Tumbleweed project created? Any ideas? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Robert Schweikert

20:07

<snip>

...

Great, glad to hear it.

Oh, one question for you, how do I go about getting some artwork for the Tumbleweed project created? Any ideas?

Ping Andrew Fitzsimon HTH, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jos Poortvliet

1 Feb 1 Feb

02:06

On Monday 31 January 2011 19:45:32 Greg KH wrote:

...

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...
Hi all,

I have some questions about Tumbleweed.

First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?

I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed.

Ok, that's from moving from 11.3 to 11.4, yes? So from 11.4 onwards, are all maintainers going to pick packages for Tumbleweed?

...

If anyone knows of a way to not do this, please let me know and I will be glad to test it out, but so far in my testing, this seems needed.

...
Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1])

Yes, I think so.

Cool!

...

...
Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed? Eg some tickbox on installation or in our package management system?

A "one-click-install" should be provided, that should be all that is needed. I don't know about installation time just yet, maybe 11.5/12.0 might be good for that, if at all.

Ok.

...

...
Obviously, I love Tumbleweed - for the slightly-more-experienced linux user and for those who love the latest & greatest it is awesome - and this happens to be a pretty big chunk of our target usergroup :D

On a personal note, I also love Tumbleweed because I think rolling-release stuff rocks - I come from Arch and frankly it's the major thing I loved about it.

Great, glad to hear it.

Oh, one question for you, how do I go about getting some artwork for the Tumbleweed project created? Any ideas?

He, I already pinged some ppl on that - we need something pretty ;-)

...

thanks,

greg k-h

cheers, Jos

Greg KH

02:45

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 03:06:01AM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

On Monday 31 January 2011 19:45:32 Greg KH wrote:

...
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...
Hi all,

I have some questions about Tumbleweed.

First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?

I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed.

Ok, that's from moving from 11.3 to 11.4, yes? So from 11.4 onwards, are all maintainers going to pick packages for Tumbleweed?

I don't understand, what do you mean by "maintainers going to pick packages"? What it looks like is going to happen is the WHOLE 11.4 repo will be linked into the openSUSE:Tumbleweed repo and rebuilt. So, if you switch to Tumbleweed, you will end up installing everything again. Yeah, it's a pain, but it seems like the best way forward at the moment. And yes, there are alternatives, only picking the packages that change, _and_ the dependancies, and linking them in. But, that will start to drive me crazy very quickly, as it has already when trying to do some updates in the testing repo. But if people complain that this would be too much, we can do it, it's just more work on my part, which is fair enough. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jos Poortvliet

11:56

On Tuesday 01 February 2011 03:45:37 Greg KH wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 03:06:01AM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...
On Monday 31 January 2011 19:45:32 Greg KH wrote:

...
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...
Hi all,

I have some questions about Tumbleweed.

First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?

I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed.

Ok, that's from moving from 11.3 to 11.4, yes? So from 11.4 onwards, are all maintainers going to pick packages for Tumbleweed?

I don't understand, what do you mean by "maintainers going to pick packages"?

What it looks like is going to happen is the WHOLE 11.4 repo will be linked into the openSUSE:Tumbleweed repo and rebuilt. So, if you switch to Tumbleweed, you will end up installing everything again.

Yes, once 11.4 is out. But I would like to know what happens after that - going towards 11.5/12.0? How many packages are 'part of the Tumbleweed initiative', IOW, being kept up to date? How many maintainers have said they will send regular new versions your way? Eg just the kernel, Xorg and GNOME? Or also LibreOffice, Firefox? is XFCE in? Will we have the latest Wireshark? Python packages? ;-)

...

Yeah, it's a pain, but it seems like the best way forward at the moment.

And yes, there are alternatives, only picking the packages that change, _and_ the dependancies, and linking them in. But, that will start to drive me crazy very quickly, as it has already when trying to do some updates in the testing repo.

But if people complain that this would be too much, we can do it, it's just more work on my part, which is fair enough.

Nah, I think it's not too bad for the 11.4 release, it's just a bigger download, that's it. Hurts us (our servers & bandwith) more than most of our users, I'd say. And Tumbleweed doesn't have that many yet, I would guess. We should however do better in the future - for someone living in a low-bandwith country like India or Brazil, an upgrade to 11.4 could take several days. And I feel that pain because I will be in Brazil during the release period ;-)

...

thanks,

greg k-h

Greg KH

14:03

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 12:56:02PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

On Tuesday 01 February 2011 03:45:37 Greg KH wrote:

...
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 03:06:01AM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...
On Monday 31 January 2011 19:45:32 Greg KH wrote:

...
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...
Hi all,

I have some questions about Tumbleweed.

First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?

I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed.

Ok, that's from moving from 11.3 to 11.4, yes? So from 11.4 onwards, are all maintainers going to pick packages for Tumbleweed?

I don't understand, what do you mean by "maintainers going to pick packages"?

What it looks like is going to happen is the WHOLE 11.4 repo will be linked into the openSUSE:Tumbleweed repo and rebuilt. So, if you switch to Tumbleweed, you will end up installing everything again.

Yes, once 11.4 is out. But I would like to know what happens after that - going towards 11.5/12.0? How many packages are 'part of the Tumbleweed initiative', IOW, being kept up to date? How many maintainers have said they will send regular new versions your way?

Ah, that makes more sense.

...

Eg just the kernel, Xorg and GNOME? Or also LibreOffice, Firefox? is XFCE in? Will we have the latest Wireshark? Python packages? ;-)

I don't really know just yet, it depends on what happens with different upstream development packages, and how "stable" maintainers feel they are. Actually, in thinking about it some more, perhaps it would make more sense to slowly ease things in as they change. It would take more work on my part, but that seems fairer than forcing everything to change all at once. It would get "messy" when things like python or perl get updated, but that's what scripts are for...

...

...
Yeah, it's a pain, but it seems like the best way forward at the moment.

And yes, there are alternatives, only picking the packages that change, _and_ the dependancies, and linking them in. But, that will start to drive me crazy very quickly, as it has already when trying to do some updates in the testing repo.

But if people complain that this would be too much, we can do it, it's just more work on my part, which is fair enough.

Nah, I think it's not too bad for the 11.4 release, it's just a bigger download, that's it. Hurts us (our servers & bandwith) more than most of our users, I'd say. And Tumbleweed doesn't have that many yet, I would guess. We should however do better in the future - for someone living in a low-bandwith country like India or Brazil, an upgrade to 11.4 could take several days. And I feel that pain because I will be in Brazil during the release period ;-)

At 11.4 release time, I doubt there will be any changes as not much will be "newer" for Tumbleweed to provide, so you might be fine :) thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

31 Jan 31 Jan

19:09

Mandag den 31. januar 2011 18:41:34 skrev Jos Poortvliet:

...

I have some questions about Tumbleweed. Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use

Please only recommend it to geeks, and other people who like to fix things that aren't broken ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Matt Hayes

19:14

On 1/31/2011 12:41 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

Hi all,

I have some questions about Tumbleweed.

First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?

Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1])

Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed? Eg some tickbox on installation or in our package management system?

Obviously, I love Tumbleweed - for the slightly-more-experienced linux user and for those who love the latest & greatest it is awesome - and this happens to be a pretty big chunk of our target usergroup :D

On a personal note, I also love Tumbleweed because I think rolling-release stuff rocks - I come from Arch and frankly it's the major thing I loved about it.

Cheers, Jos

One question I have about Tumbleweed... how are you going to handle things like Packman for Tumbleweed? -Matt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

19:18

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 02:14:34PM -0500, Matt Hayes wrote:

...

One question I have about Tumbleweed... how are you going to handle things like Packman for Tumbleweed?

That's up to Packman to work through, and, as of the last conversation we had on this list, they should be able to handle it just fine. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Matt Hayes

19:20

On 1/31/2011 2:18 PM, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 02:14:34PM -0500, Matt Hayes wrote:

...
One question I have about Tumbleweed... how are you going to handle things like Packman for Tumbleweed?

That's up to Packman to work through, and, as of the last conversation we had on this list, they should be able to handle it just fine.

thanks,

greg k-h

Understood, I missed the other thread apparently. I think this will be a big deal to a lot of users that utilize Packman for stable releases. If those extra packages aren't available to them, then I don't think Tumbleweed will have much of an impact on those types of users is all I'm saying. -Matt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Robert Schweikert

20:51

On 01/31/2011 12:41 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

Hi all,

I have some questions about Tumbleweed.

First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?

Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1])

Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed?

IMHO Yes. Tumbledweed should show up alongside the other community repos when selecting "Community Repositories" after clicking "Add" in the repository manager of YaST. My $0.02 Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow

1 Feb 1 Feb

08:37

Am Montag, 31. Januar 2011 schrieb Robert Schweikert:

...

IMHO Yes.

Tumbledweed should show up alongside the other community repos when selecting "Community Repositories" after clicking "Add" in the repository manager of YaST. That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.

I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;( Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Sankar P

09:32

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Am Montag, 31. Januar 2011 schrieb Robert Schweikert:

...
IMHO Yes.

Tumbledweed should show up alongside the other community repos when selecting "Community Repositories" after clicking "Add" in the repository manager of YaST. That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.

I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;(

If we could have Tumbleweed, we could as well have Factory. I believe we should avoid both of them in the community repositories list. We should just give what is applicable for that distro (GNOME:Apps, GNOME:Stable, Firefox, VLC etc.) While we are on the topic of community repositories, most of the community repositories have a name that begins with "openSUSE Buildservice " and then followed by the actual name "KDE:Extra, Mozilla etc." Can we skip the prefix "openSUSE Buildservice - " ? -- Sankar P http://psankar.blogspot.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Richard (MQ)

09:55

On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 09:37 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.

I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;(

I fear that you are correct here. Maybe we need to define and promote what is really an upgrade path, from a standard release to the associated tumbleweed derivative. -- Cheers Richard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

14:04

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 09:55:44AM +0000, Richard (MQ) wrote:

...

On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 09:37 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...
That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.

I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;(

I fear that you are correct here.

Maybe we need to define and promote what is really an upgrade path, from a standard release to the associated tumbleweed derivative.

Do you think there is going to be more than one? curious, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Richard (MQ)

14:47

On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 06:04 -0800, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 09:55:44AM +0000, Richard (MQ) wrote:

...
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 09:37 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...
That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.

I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;(

I fear that you are correct here.

Maybe we need to define and promote what is really an upgrade path, from a standard release to the associated tumbleweed derivative.

Do you think there is going to be more than one?

curious,

Well, I certainly _hope_ there is going to be more than one. It would be very sad if the idea dies before it gets going. I wish I had the time and skills to do more to help - as with most open-source projects it will depend entirely on how many of the key people want to make it happen. I can't add much beyond testing. Let's hope... -- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

14:52

Am 01.02.2011 15:47, schrieb Richard (MQ):

...

On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 06:04 -0800, Greg KH wrote:

...
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 09:55:44AM +0000, Richard (MQ) wrote:

...
Maybe we need to define and promote what is really an upgrade path, from a standard release to the associated tumbleweed derivative.

Do you think there is going to be more than one?

curious,

Well, I certainly _hope_ there is going to be more than one. It would be very sad if the idea dies before it gets going.

That's why it seems that it's not clear to everyone what Tumbleweed is. Tumbleweed is not meant to be based on another distribution. It's a new one basically following Factory with delays and skipping the experimental builds inbetween. 11.4 is chosed to get officially started from if I got this correctly. After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on. I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-) Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

jdd

14:56

Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

...

After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.

I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)

it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Richard (MQ)

15:23

On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 15:56 +0100, jdd wrote:

...

Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

...
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.

I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)

it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-)

OK - "my bad". I had imagined a new one each release, a bit like having ongoing updates. This makes sense (now!), but I am not sure how easy it will be to explain to newbies... I'll duck back down below the parapet again now ;-) -- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

jdd

15:34

Le 01/02/2011 16:23, Richard (MQ) a écrit : but I am not sure how easy it will be

...

to explain to newbies...

always up to date, never need to upgrade to a new distro, always new :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

15:38

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:56 AM, jdd wrote:

...

Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

...
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.

I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)

it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-)

jdd

And maybe not even then. Factory goes into freeze for a couple months prior to a release. If a package goes stable in that time, I assume it could go to Tumbleweed during the factory freeze time, and thus Tumbleweed would be ahead of a release even on the very first day. Greg F -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jos Poortvliet

2 Feb 2 Feb

00:12

On Tuesday 01 February 2011 16:38:11 Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:56 AM, jdd wrote:

...
Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

...
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.

I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)

it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-)

jdd

And maybe not even then. Factory goes into freeze for a couple months prior to a release. If a package goes stable in that time, I assume it could go to Tumbleweed during the factory freeze time, and thus Tumbleweed would be ahead of a release even on the very first day.

+1 That's what a rolling release is. It's why Debian's Unstable or Testing are NOT rolling release distro's (some ppl use them like that). They freeze during debian release freeze time (more like an ice age if you ask me). Tumbleweed will be a true rolling release like Arch and Gentoo offering, but build on top of an easy to use distro. Which means that while I will surely recommend it to more technical users, we WILL get a larger share of not-so- technical users on Tumbleweed than Arch or Gentoo have. We'll therefor also have a bit more of an obligation to make sure it doesn't break in horrible ways, imho.

...

Greg F

Ludwig Nussel

4 Feb 4 Feb

07:57

Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:56 AM, jdd wrote:

...
Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

...
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.

I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)

it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-)

And maybe not even then. Factory goes into freeze for a couple months prior to a release. If a package goes stable in that time, I assume

The freeze could be avoided by branching the release earlier though. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

1 Feb 1 Feb

15:43

Tirsdag den 1. februar 2011 09:37:27 skrev Stephan Kulow:

...

Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution

Hence it is "interesting" that the openSUSE community manager wants to promote it >:-) I wonder if the actual official distribution is top priority for anyone other than coolo in this community anymore. </rant> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

16:19

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 04:43:01PM +0100, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Tirsdag den 1. februar 2011 09:37:27 skrev Stephan Kulow:

...
Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution

Hence it is "interesting" that the openSUSE community manager wants to promote it >:-)

I wonder if the actual official distribution is top priority for anyone other than coolo in this community anymore.

</rant>

For all that dont write here? Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow

18:42

On Tuesday 01 February 2011 16:43:01 Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Tirsdag den 1. februar 2011 09:37:27 skrev Stephan Kulow:

...
Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution

Hence it is "interesting" that the openSUSE community manager wants to promote it >:-)

I wonder if the actual official distribution is top priority for anyone other than coolo in this community anymore.

I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE - and if we manage to use Factory's packages wise and do not divert the developers I don't have a problem with it - far from it. And it may also get us more testing of factory packages in time - just as projects like KDE:Distro:Factory are very popular and bring us early feedback for factory development even though it's used on 11.3 and below. There are of course many challenges ahead for Tumbleweed and I can't help other than giving advise. Greetings, Stephan -- Sent from openSUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Kim Leyendecker

18:46

Am 01.02.2011 19:42, schrieb Stephan Kulow:

...

I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE full ack. I´m using Tumbleweed a little bit (see my signature) and I´m really proud that openSUSE have Tumbleweed.

Has Ubuntu a rolling release? No! Has Fedora a rolling release? No! Has Mandriva a rolling release? No! I think, if Greg and the others manage the project carefully, it will become an important part of openSUSE. But how says, that Tumbleweed is a _independent_ distro? I ever thought, that it _isn´t_ an independent distro?! (Greg?!) kind regards kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE Kernel-desktop 2.6.34-12& using Tumbleweed This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Kim Leyendecker

18:49

To promote Tumbleweed, I think, a live-CD is a the best way. I tried to build one with SUSE Studio. My version: - Based on openSUSE 11.3 with GNOME (I was tired of using KDE only, so I used GNOME.) But I couldn´t include the tumbleweed-repos. Maybe someone other will have more luck..... kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE Kernel-desktop 2.6.34-12& using Tumbleweed This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

2 Feb 2 Feb

00:24

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 07:49:44PM +0100, Kim Leyendecker wrote:

...

To promote Tumbleweed, I think, a live-CD is a the best way. I tried to build one with SUSE Studio.

My version: - Based on openSUSE 11.3 with GNOME (I was tired of using KDE only, so I used GNOME.)

But I couldn´t include the tumbleweed-repos. Maybe someone other will have more luck.....

You should just have to add them at initial boot time, like other images add them. But that's not really a live-cd at all, tumbleweed is to be installed, not run as a snapshot. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Frederic Crozat

09:26

Le mardi 01 février 2011 à 19:49 +0100, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :

...

To promote Tumbleweed, I think, a live-CD is a the best way. I tried to build one with SUSE Studio.

My version: - Based on openSUSE 11.3 with GNOME (I was tired of using KDE only, so I used GNOME.)

But I couldn´t include the tumbleweed-repos. Maybe someone other will have more luck.....

Well, not really Thumbleweed but you can revive the GNOME:Medias gnome-reloaded image, if you want. -- Frederic Crozat Novell -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

1 Feb 1 Feb

19:14

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Kim Leyendecker wrote:

...

Am 01.02.2011 19:42, schrieb Stephan Kulow:

...
I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE

full ack. I惴 using Tumbleweed a little bit (see my signature) and I惴 really proud that openSUSE have Tumbleweed.

Has Ubuntu a rolling release? No! Has Fedora a rolling release? No! Has Mandriva a rolling release? No!

I think, if Greg and the others manage the project carefully, it will become an important part of openSUSE.

But how says, that Tumbleweed is a _independent_ distro? I ever thought, that it _isn愒_ an independent distro?! (Greg?!)

I believe the goal of Tumbleweed is to be an independent "release". Not an independent "distro". Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now. Greg F -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

jdd

21:40

Le 01/02/2011 20:14, Greg Freemyer a écrit :

...

Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now.

yes, and all the people that don't want the very last product wont have to be bored by other people asking for it. I'm glad Tumbleweed existe *because* I don't need it :-)) no more "I want Gnome 3, delay the distro" troll jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jos Poortvliet

2 Feb 2 Feb

00:14

On Tuesday 01 February 2011 22:40:38 jdd wrote:

...

Le 01/02/2011 20:14, Greg Freemyer a écrit :

...
Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now.

yes, and all the people that don't want the very last product wont have to be bored by other people asking for it.

I'm glad Tumbleweed existe *because* I don't need it :-))

no more "I want Gnome 3, delay the distro" troll

Another good argument why Tumbleweed is awesome :D So it'll be mentioned in the release announcement as a 'feature'.

...

jdd

Frederic Crozat

09:27

Le mardi 01 février 2011 à 22:40 +0100, jdd a écrit :

...

Le 01/02/2011 20:14, Greg Freemyer a écrit :

...
Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now.

yes, and all the people that don't want the very last product wont have to be bored by other people asking for it.

I'm glad Tumbleweed existe *because* I don't need it :-))

no more "I want Gnome 3, delay the distro" troll

Well, you don't need 11.4 either for GNOME 3, see http://blog.crozat.net/2011/01/gnome-3-live-cd-usb-test-image.html (powered by openSUSE and kiwi / OBS ;) -- Frederic Crozat Novell -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

00:23

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 02:14:04PM -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Kim Leyendecker wrote:

...
Am 01.02.2011 19:42, schrieb Stephan Kulow:

...
I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE

full ack. I惴 using Tumbleweed a little bit (see my signature) and I惴 really proud that openSUSE have Tumbleweed.

Has Ubuntu a rolling release? No! Has Fedora a rolling release? No! Has Mandriva a rolling release? No!

I think, if Greg and the others manage the project carefully, it will become an important part of openSUSE.

But how says, that Tumbleweed is a _independent_ distro? I ever thought, that it _isn愒_ an independent distro?! (Greg?!)

I believe the goal of Tumbleweed is to be an independent "release". Not an independent "distro".

It's not a "release" at all, as it's a moving target, constantly changing.

...

Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now.

Well, you might still have to change your repo every major release, but that should be pretty trivial overall :) thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org