-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 04/05/2015 11:42 AM, Sam M. wrote:
How do I work something out with somebody that doesn't respond to my emails, sends me rude messages,
As they say, the door swings both ways. If you feel it is necessary to attack people and be rude I am not certain why you would not expect a response in kind or no response at all.
and blocks people from posting to the list for practically nothing? This is 100% censorship and anybody who supports that in an open source project is a moron.
Insulting the whole project is not really going to win you much sympathy. We try to be kind to each other, see the openSUSE Project Guiding Principles https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles While bikeshedding and flame wars cannot always be avoided we try very hard not to let these things get out of hand. Calling people names is at best immature behavior and definitely goes against the spirit of the openSUSE Guiding Principles. Personal attacks via name calling has no place on the openSUSE mailing lists. It is not censorship. These are the guidelines we as the openSUSE community have agreed to abide by. No one is forced to participate in the project. However, those that do are expected to follow the guidelines we as a project have established. If people choose not to abide by those guidelines it is our option to remove those people from the mailing lists. Oh, and before I forget we also have some guidelines about response style for the mailing lists: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette Generally top posting is discouraged.
I didn't find your email constructive either. Please tell me, what's it even about? It mostly looks like a bunch of non-sequitur ramblings about how open source projects are understaffed and something about your website. I read it a few times and it still doesn't make much sense. FOSS has been understaffed since the idea was invented; tell us something we don't know.
There is no contact info for this secret board on the openSUSE page. It's all very shady; there are no names, profiles, nothing. I found one profile page but barely any contact info. What you do is on the main site, you put a "contact us" link and list everybody involved in the project.
We have probably 300 contributors to the project. I am not certain that putting every contributors name in a list on the wiki would be helpful.
People have a right to know who's managing the packages that's being installed on their PC without going to great lengths in crawling through the wiki for old and broken info, or Googling things.
I agree, people do have the right to know who maintains the packages. However, we as a project get to choose how this information is made available. Our tool to build the distribution is the openSUSE Build service (build.opensuse.org) and within it all the information about every package that is part of the distribution and any package that is being built with the build service is available. For openSUSE 13.2 you can for example find everything here: https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/openSUSE:13.2
If you look at Arch Linux page, all their contact info is right there with their pictures:
https://www.archlinux.org/people/developers/ https://www.archlinux.org/people/trusted-users/ https://www.archlinux.org/people/support-staff/
That's nicely done.
The main openSUSE website is one big kludge,
We are well aware that the website needs TLC, and you are welcome to contribute. The website is maintained on GitHub (https://github.com/openSUSE/www.o.o) and pull requests will be evaluated. There is currently work going on to improve the web site.
and trying to find anything in the wiki is pointless unless you Google what you're looking for.
Yes, we also know that the wiki search needs TLC, and again helping hands are much appreciated.
openSUSE's fragmentation really is disappointing and something needs to be done about it.
Feel free to jump right in and help out.
<snip>
On 05.04.2015 15:25, Sam M. wrote:
Hi all,
I have a problem with how Henne Vogelsang is moderating the email list. This week I got a rude and infantilizing message from him telling me to "stop insulting users" because I wrote the word "ass" in an email. This is an email list where people should be able to express themselves without fear of insulting others because of slang terms or harsh/brash exchanges.
Sorry, this is incorrect. This is an e-mail list of the openSUSE project that falls within the openSUSE Guiding Principals, see link above. Therefore people posting are not free to insult each other as this goes against our guiding principles.
Free software email lists are known for flame wars with all types of different people saying different things.
That may be correct. This does not imply however, that every open source project has to tolerate everything. We as the openSUSE community have chose to actively discourage such behavior on all of our mailing lists. This is not to say that it doesn't happen every now and then. However, when it does happen there are those of us who try to calm the waters and remind people why we are here. We are here to collaborate. Insulting each other is generally not conducive to collaboration.
If it weren't for strong criticism or incongruent ways of thinking, free software would be insurmountably different than what it is today.
Strong criticism and personal insults are two different things. Providing feedback about someone's contribution can be strong but that does not mean it has to be negative nor should it take on a personal direction.
My email never went through, but Henne still took it upon himself to write me an email that told me what to do (he didn't ask), and told me that if I do it again I'm going to have access removed. Obviously Henne is a very insecure person that only sees things in one manner, and leaves no dialogue open. Who the hell gave him complete access to the email list and why? I have to say that he's doing a crappy job managing it, and his socialization skills over the internet are dismal.
It shouldn't be up to Henne to pick and choose what people say and which messages go through and which ones don't. If somebody has a problem, there needs to be a procedure in place which allows people to contact SUSE directly.
Sorry you are barking up the wrong tree. The openSUSE project is independently governed. SUSE is our primary sponsor and we are certainly very great full for the support we receive from SUSE. However, when it comes to governance the project is independent. And we do have a procedure. The escalation path leads to the openSUSE Board, as others in this thread have already pointed out. However, I can tell you that you will not receive much sympathy with your approach. And before you resort to more name calling, let me just say, doing so will not improve the situation. Last but not least, for the record. Henne Vogelsang is NOT a troll. Henne is a well respected contributor to and member of the openSUSE project. Regrads, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEbBAEBAgAGBQJVIah7AAoJEE4FgL32d2Ukpv0H+LpMfp1ITjkJRunpLruw9ICf PLUWwPs28nffMa9238jm8D3BT0nUhXcRICL1p+MRRhRhDNMNlv8zt6ZHuj9nvjbu 02cj9n2G8jxOErKQO70IVc2nQqU/LDy1Jbi3rIdeUM6GSpJMhAfzvIUEEMOVYzCo t+2WDSSaJDuUTKKMAQRwTF4vqR8IZnnO5PzZny8yoyedOn4/UhUFMdvoAi2k8bcY Us/hbqmCbkv7z7zDvUcnCPmcDaUC8JWIoLKyszRIKjJ7FJuGCzv+m+mj9NU27hhl 8pamkliB3mSwmYCchqhE5EZ78b3vv+rFsIcG0ntOJnHyLJZIRINEIOCaYz9H1g== =jCJR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org