Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am 28.11.2013 00:15, schrieb Kostas Koudaras:
First of all sorry for the top posting
This whole thing is so wrong for so many reasons...
Most of them were mentioned mostly by Klaas and Andrew.
We are the community and openSUSE is a community project.
It is another thing of having a team filing the gap that community
(might) leave and another thing having a team doing things leaving the
community out. My impression that streangthens day by day is that the
openSUSE Team wants to lead openSUSE Project leaving the community
out. We don't like that as you can see, so the question here given the
fact that we can not dissagree forever is... Who has to change or step
back or compromise(choose your favourite)? The openSUSE Team or all
the others? We are volunteers to an FOSS project, right?
We are here now and we have a problem, realizing that is half a
solution. Looking to 2016 ignoring all that... Certainly not a good
I'm part of the openSUSE team and I have to say that I highly disagree
with Agustins communication style - and I told him several times, but
it's a good thing someone else tells him too.
But at the end of it, all we proposing is a discussion of the future and
just as you say, the openSUSE community has strengths and weaknesses
and one of the latter is long term planning or general strategy
discussions. Do you remember the last? I felt, it was a disaster.
So I don't think there is a good way to present to the project the idea
that what we're doing is leading nowhere - to noone. Add to that
Agustin's way of saying things and it feels like another disaster.
But the openSUSE team's duty towards SUSE is to make sure openSUSE is
healthy and rocking - and for that we need to have a picture from time
to time. We can't just keep having release, party, release, party, ...
So there is more to this than "change". SUSE wants some things to happen
within openSUSE, but just as Ralf said in the OSC13 keynote,
SUSE does want the openSUSE to be in openSUSE's hands. So we want
you to convince that the things SUSE wants are the right thing to do
and it's only fair that we disagree and come up with a solution that
works for everyone.
One of these things we need to change IMO is the development process,
but I'll write a more detailed mail later today. It's a bit complex to
describe by email, so I want to make it right ;)
I agree with much what has been said so far in this discussion/proposal.
I believe there is an inherent "ownership" from people who participate
in openSUSE and contribute to it. It is your own efforts that shape what
goes out on the distribution. Your hours of voluntary work.
I agree with Stephan about not having trail of year after year with
release, release, release and so on. Eventually we have to aim for
something even if it is a simple thing. Setting timeframes can help too.
My idea would be to take what Agustin proposes in a "lighter" way.
Meaning, let's not call each other monsters but take the argument he has
into account and then weigh that argument against your particular
position. Some have done that in this discussion already.
What if we do this?
- Take Agustin's proposal as a SUSE strategy on "their" side to drive
contributions to the distribution and the project
- Keep our "community" contributions the same way we have done so far
What do I mean by this? Since there is friction and fear of overreach
from SUSE toward the openSUSE project, the recommendation is take these
goals and aims solely on the side of SUSE to "help" the project, but
they cannot have a say in matters of governance, community moderation,
etc. Therefore, SUSE's contribution is only to make the project better
with their own "internal" goals. If SUSE wants openSUSE to include this
or that software by 2016 or have an LT release, let them do so by being
a "contributor" like all of us in the community are.
This would mean that I and SUSE, for example, are in equal footing as a
contributor to the project. Just as I, or any other member, cannot
impose, or decide on the rest of our contributors, SUSE's involvement
would be treated likewise. They only contribute. As to how they decide
to do that internally, it is up to their own organization.
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