[opensuse-project] Re: About shaming people on the list

Op zondag 29 november 2020 21:56:11 CET schreef Per Jessen:

Maurizio Galli wrote:

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On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:45:46 +0100 Per Jessen wrote:

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Neal Gompa wrote:

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On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 1:56 PM Per Jessen wrote:

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Neal Gompa wrote:

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In my experience in the Linux Discord communities (especially the openSUSE one), I have dealt with *many* complaints about the mailing lists, and people being afraid to contribute because of how people respond on the lists.

Is there an archive anywhere where one can go educate oneself in this respect? I find it quite odd that someone should refrain from contributing just because of a poor response on a mailing list.

Personally speaking, my "itch" does not subside just because I am poorly received somewhere, I still wanna scratch it :-)

Neal, IMHO it is just a little too easy to announce that you "have dealt with *many* complaints about the mailing lists" and then scolding the mailing list members without any further evidence.

Each communication channel has it's own "atmosphere", some are tough and direct, others less so. There are learning curves, we all have to scale them.

I don't personally have one that I can offer, most of it was through private chats on Discord, but it has also come up in the main channels on the openSUSE Discord community. Myself, Stasiek, Knurpht, and Maurizio have talked to people publicly and privately about it. As the public chats are indexed and searchable from the Discord client, you can search for discussions about this there.

Neal, I think it is actually up to you (or Stasiek, Knurpht or Maurizio) to offer some plain URLs to those chats you are talking about. That is a far more friendly way to enable communication than to ask me to use "the Discord client".

The point is not what people say about the ML on another platform but us trying to be more inclusive and less hostile. Some felt that we don't do this well enough and felt they had to leave. I wish we can focus on that and discuss ways to do better instead of posting URLs.

What do you propose exactly ? Focus on _what_ exactly when you can't tell us what it is ? I am not trying to be difficult, but it's just too fluffy.

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BTW, I have also heard *many* complaints about the Discord channels, what would be a suitable place to bring those up? I am sure you will understand what I mean.

Complaints can reported to the moderators and if that is not enough the openSUSE Board. Ultimately if neither of those option is suitable, you can report abuses etc directly to Discord within the UI.

So _exactly_ like on the openSUSE mailing lists, except we have publicly available archives, needing nothing but a browser.

I do not understand why "Neal, Stasiek, Knurpht, and yourself" are not simply referring any ML complaints to the moderators and the openSUSE board. Neal says he has "dealt with many complaints about the mailing lists, and people being afraid to contribute because of how people respond on the lists.". Why was this not brought to the list moderators or the openSUSE board ?

This was brought up to the Board a several times.

-- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.0°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes _______________________________________________ openSUSE Project mailing list -- project@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email project-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/project@lists.opensuse.org

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team