On Tuesday 31 May 2011 16:42:18 Klaas Freitag wrote:
Am Dienstag 31 Mai 2011, 15:01:51 schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
Hey,
Other than that we should follow the proven guideline of "those who do the work decide", and let actions speak. I don't see the need to make things more complicated here.
Well, you know my thoughts on that now - the "those who do the work decide" rule works fine for 40-year-old-white-German-males.
I can't see what you mean with that. Moreover I find the phrase not appropiate, but lets leave that aside. The "those who do decide" rule is one of the fundaments of communities. We can and will not let that go.
Of course, I was being a tad black and white there, sorry. Obviously, 'who does the work decides' is so central to who we are it could never go away. Or rather, if it did, that'd be a huge problem. The problem I have with it is that the rule is about more than doing the work - it is about being pro- active. That is again a huge plus for the people in our community - if you want to make a difference, DO IT. Unfortunately, people who aren't very pro- active but otherwise could be excellent contributors are limited by this.
And the 'german-male' thing I mention because this has strong relationships with gender and culture.
Someone female and Indian is simply less likely to ask questions before he/she knows reasonably surely what the right way is to do something. But if there is no way to find out other than ask - well, that person might simply not do it.
And yes, I know people like that. People who WANT to contribute but see it as a huge barrier that they have to ask "stupid questions" with the risk of making someone think (and sometimes say) "what an idiot".
Better documenting things can help those people without erecting barriers or setting up committees - I surely am not pushing for that.
I do need to sit down, go through the wiki, and see where I can modify/improve documentation. Sorry for not having done so yet - it's not a trivial thing to do in terms of time...
It's a huge barrier for anyone who doesn't regularly go to meetings & talks to openSUSE people, learning 'how things work'.
Is that a request for more documenting of what is done? I agree, thats needed. However I wonder if the Trademark Guideline is the right place to outline stuff that is a) sometimes defined by people who do it and b) possibly not know yet. IMO the guidelines should give a frame in which we operate but should not try to rule out everything as that takes away free space, creativity and fun. If questions arise we again look at the guidelines and decide. The fact that it can happen that we have to discuss again shouldn't be considered as downside but as development of the project.
You're right, agreed.
regards, Klaas