Am Mittwoch, 9. Juni 2010, 10:43:23 schrieb Andreas Jaeger:
On Tuesday 08 June 2010 20:44:27 Per Jessen wrote:
I couldn't find a suitable place to add this in the running thread, so I'm starting this one
- whilst there seems to be lots of arguments against TrifleMeNots main arguments (possible sale, the MS deal etc), as far as I can tell, no-one has actually argued against the independence in itself. It seems to me that TrifleMeNot has a point - IF the current infrastructure DID suddenly go away, we would have a very serious issue. Whether or not that is a real risk or not, being more independent wouldn't be that bad, would it? Seeking infrastructure contributions could even go quite well with a strategy of attracting more developers and contributors (if that is the strategy).
Per,
let me rephrase what I said in this thread with other words.
openSUSE will always depend on somebody to sponsor infrastructure. It would be great if there would not be one major sponsor and if that one goes away, the whole project would be in jeopardy.
Sponsorship like we need for the openSUSE build service is not that easy but we're not bad: we have 20+ machines and that hardware got sponsored by AMD. We have sponsored bandwidth for the machines. And Novell sponsors the datacenter, meaning space, power, cooling and administration for the Build Service - and also for many other systems.
The crucial part about independence is not the data center sponsorship by Novell. The crucial part is sponsoring a lot of developers to make openSUSE successful.
In the past you had to be a Novell employee to make certain things happen. We changed all of that - and if there's still a place where Novell employees are in charge it's mainly because of nobody stepping up to do it instead of Novell controlling it. There are a few places where that contribution is not possible today, e.g. proper handling of feature requests, and we work actively on removing those barriers.
Hm I don't really buy into that, I understand Novell has no problem of the community taking openSUSE where they want to, but they sure don't want their own people to do what they want all the time, so Novell is steering openSUSE through the people working on it. This is totally fine for me, someone who contributes alot to openSUSE is in charge of his part and thus controls the way openSUSE is headed, maybe alot of the critcism can be eliminated with beeing more truthful in the direction that Novell also wants a reward on their contribution to openSUSE. Novell isn't charity, but in some statements that looks like it wants to be just that. I think we all know and accept open source couldn't succeed with someone paying bills around it.
So, independence has two facets: * independence from the money of Novell * independence from the control of Novell
I'm convinced that the majority of the community does not want independence from the money of Novell. For example every ambassador ask for goodies from Novell for their local events. Yes, we want more money to grow openSUSE - and that's what has been said is why the openSUSE Board works on an openSUSE foundation.
Independence from the control of Novell is something the project has already - it just has to grab it. And that's the discussion IMO that we should have - on how to grab it. We have now people part of our server administration team that are not Novell employees, we have with Bryen an openSUSE marketing lead that is not a Novell employee etc. As part of the marketing team lead by Bryen I do right now the openSUSE Build Service announcements. And that kind of self-reliance and independence where Novell is part of the community - and where contribution and not money roles - is the one the project is moving towards,
I guess everybody has his aims in contributing to openSUSE, or any other project, and they do it for a reason, what's Novells reason? Most non-employed people do it for their satisfaction, be it shaping something, improving his own experience, helping others etc etc. But I don't remember any public statement what Novell expects from it's support for openSUSE, except what reads like general charity. I can think of alot out of my head, be it gaining expertise, having a good testbase for future products, improving future products through external contributions, earning a good reputation as opensource contributor, providing interesting work topics for employees, etc. http://en.opensuse.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_is_the_relationship_o... tries to shortly address this, btw also stating 'Novell [...] retains ultimate responsibility for the project.' The entry states it's the base for SLE, that's it, well this obviously contradicts the wish for a totally independent community as it might create something that just won't sell as SLE ;-) Regards, Karsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org