On 7/11/23 14:08, Maurizio Galli wrote:
> Simon Lees wrote:
>> On 7/10/23 18:25, Maurizio Galli wrote:
>>> How can we improve our community by listening to what the community actually wants? Can we create a voting system?
>>> As Simon already pointed out we have one but it's usually for things that would affect the whole project, not for grievances that are only specific to a communication platforms not everyone uses (in this case Reddit).
>
>> I have also had people from different diverse backgrounds who have in
>> private thanked me for not just shutting down this discussion because
>> they also don't feel that we as a community have got the balance
>> completely right and feel that it is something we should still discuss.
>
> Speaking of balance, please, let's remember every time this started it's because we have a banner on Reddit (I know shocking), with a subtle artwork with little color supporting a minority group and someone wanted it taken down, multiple times now. Many of our developers and contributors are LGTBQ+ and if you asked me the current path is the correct one. Taking down the rainbow symbol actually means more to those represented by it than those who insist on taking it down. This is not being militant nor activism, it's showing solidarity. Stopping this would send a far worse message to those who feel welcome because of it than it would to those who feel bothered or offended by it.

I think the root cause here is more the question of "How political
should openSUSE as a project / organization be?" If we have a good
understanding of this then all these questions can just go away. For
example on this list there seems to be a conciseness that having Pride
Flags for Pride month while obviously being a statement (why would we do
it otherwise), is a statement that's acceptable to the broader community.

On the other hand people have expressed that they are less comfortable
with a statement year round as they believe it may alienate others which
is a fair position to have as has been pointed out many organisations
share this opinion. While we know that atleast several people share this
opinion we currently have no idea how many do. Maybe having more
concrete data on this would allow us to put together a clear statement
and then we wouldn't have to have the question come up every few months etc.

>> Given how sensitive this subject is and how much fear there is from some
>> people about speaking there own opinions probably the only way we as a
>> project can know where the members actually sit is an anonymous poll.
>
> I think it's clear by now the admins on Reddit and other communication platforms want to continue show solidarity for now and have no intention to comply with the demands. Having a poll is not going to change their determination as we have already seen.

Yes but at the end of the day the Reddit and other admins (along with
any group using the openSUSE Trademark) are accountable to the board and
so if the board were to decide that the conflict here should be resolved
differently the reddit admins would be bound to that.

I am in no way suggesting that it's likely the board would do that in
the current instance, they are equally in there right to decide we don't
need more data on this question and to take no further action. If people
disagree with that position then i'd strongly encourage them to run for
the board at the end of the year on a platform of a less political
openSUSE. If someone gets elected on that platform then we will maybe
know that as a community we have gone too far one way or the other and
there's community interest in making some level of change without having
a poll on the issue directly.

Cheers.

--
Simon Lees (Simotek)                            http://simotek.net

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