On Monday 16 May 2011 18:42:01 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 28 February 2011 11:55:02 Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
We had a couple of discussions in the past about how to improve the openSUSE trademark guidelines (see e.g.
Attached some minor comments. Thanks for pushing this, let's get it out asap
Thanks for the comments, and yes, we should get it done. That's why I'd also limit changes to a minimum at this point in time. We can do another revision later, if that's needed, but for now I would run with what we have agreed on by now.
Replies to your comments inline:
It is fundamentally important to us that any permitted use you make of the openSUSE Marks be of the highest quality and integrity and meet the highest **"aims to meet" or "meets"
Good point. Fixed.
=== Fair Use ===
We acknowledge and support your right to make "fair use" of the openSUSE Marks, and do not mean to suggest with these Guidelines that our permission is required in such cases. We cannot, however, tell you categorically what will and will not qualify as a "fair use." **as this depends on your local laws and specific situation.
That's a useful clarification.
=== Distributing openSUSE With Modifications ===
You may distribute openSUSE with modifications. Such distributions can be created via SUSE Studio, KIWI, or the openSUSE Build Service, or via your own build process.
**The following is very harsh. It is basically 'softened' afterwards but I'd like to say it more gently in the first place.
In making such a distribution, you must remove all trademark uses of the openSUSE Marks from the version of openSUSE you are modifying.
**How about replacing this with: In making such a distribution, you must ensure it is clear that your version is modified from the official openSUSE product. You cannot name your product openSUSE or directly use the openSUSE Marks but you can use the special set of branding packages or your own brand(s).
It might sound harsh, but it's also very clear, so I would keep it.
=== Advocacy Groups ===
We welcome the use of the openSUSE Marks in connection with user groups and other openSUSE advocacy groups, but you may only do so in accordance with the following requirements:
- Your use is not commercial in nature;
- In using an openSUSE Mark, you are in fact referring to the thing that
the openSUSE Mark represents;
- There is no suggestion (through words or appearance) that your group is
approved by, sponsored by, or affiliated with the openSUSE Project (or its related projects) unless it actually has been so approved, sponsored, or affiliated;
***-> as we don't have any such status, should we clarify this?!? And if so, how?
I think this is a separate discussion, and out of the scope of the actual trademark guidelines.
How advocacy groups are affiliated or approved is also more a social question. Whatever the answer is, the trademark guidelines basically just say, that you shouldn't misrepresent your status, and that holds in any case.
Personally I'm fine with the informal community-driven way advocacy groups are run right now. I don't really feel a need to make this more formal.
=== Publications ===
If you want to include all or part of an openSUSE Mark in the title or subtitle of a publication such as a book or magazine, you should seek our permission (see "Contact Information" below to request permission). ** unless it constitutes fair use (as is the case with magazines and the like). **(to point out to ppl that indeed fair use exists and allows this)
It's kind of redunant, and as it's not easy to specify, what exactly "fair use" is in a general way, I would rather leave it out.
=== Product and Service Names, and Compatibility References ===
You should not include an openSUSE Mark in the name of your product or service, regardless of whether it's commercial or non-commercial in nature. This includes online services, such as e-commerce, community, blog, informational, promotional, and personal home page sites.
With that said, we consider it permissible to use an openSUSE Mark in a file, folder, directory, or path name.
We also recognize that the openSUSE Community needs some way to identify projects, products, and services that are compatible with openSUSE. Our concern is that users not be confused as to whether a compatible project, product, or service is official or not. To address that concern, we request that you indicate compatibility with openSUSE using one of the following tag-lines (or its equivalent):
**Again, we mention official but don't have anything 'official'. What IS official. Anything SUSE Linux Producs GmbH does? Anything the board does? Board mebers? SUSE Employees? openSUSE Members? only the openSUSE DVDs coolo produces? We do have to write that down somewhere, I'll work on something.
I think it's a theoretical discussion, what "official" means. It also only makes sense in relation to a defined situation. All the groups you mention have some way to do things officially, and it means different things. As long as this is not confused, and e.g. something is mispresented as coming officially from the SUSE company, when it's actually done by the community, we should be fine here, and that's what the trademark guidelines basically say.
Other than that we should follow the proven guideline of "those who do the work decide", and let actions speak. I don't see the need to make things more complicated here.