Hi,
Am Do., 21. Feb. 2019 um 15:32 Uhr schrieb Lars Vogdt
<Lars.Vogdt(a)suse.com>:
As such, maintaining 447 [1] openSUSE members should not depend on a
single tool. Especially not if the used tool has open, well known
security issues since years[2].
On Thu, 21 Feb 2019 11:41:19 +0100 Richard Brown wrote:
> This isn't the first time I've asked this question on a public stage,
> but in the hope that this time I get an answer;
> Who volunteers to tackle the problem with connect.o.o and drive
> forward a solution?
I made my proposal already and I stand the point: shut down an insecure
system!
what does "drive forward a solution" mean? Can we integrate the
functions of connect.o.o into other services at openSUSE which are
allready maintained like the openSUSE wiki? A form for travel support
for example?
An application for membership could be done by e-mail to an e-mail
address of the membership officials. Elections could be done with an
eVote software like https://github.com/mdipierro/evote for example, but
probably there are better tools.
What did I miss?
I think Lars is right an we should shutdown this insecure system as soon
as possible.
Regards
Christian Imhorst
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Hi all,
Since the current NNTP gateway by MicoFocus is being shutdown from Wed 19th of
June, there will temporarily be none. Meanwhile some of our community members
are working on replacing it, announcements about this will follow a.s.a.p.
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Hi,
I am myself afraid of this email, because this is about the basis of the
community, distributions, plans for foundation etc... Any change in
regards
to all things outlined here will be controversial and will have huge
influence
on the future of openSUSE as a whole. Take this very seriously, but
also don't
take it too seriously because it doesn't change the way community
operates,
but instead how it ends up being represented.
As mentioned in my talk week ago, I would like to change the openSUSE
logo
to break it off of SUSE branding, however as Richard rightfully pointed
out,
the suggestion should also mention changing the name of community and
distributions, to remove the `SUSE` part of `openSUSE`, on top of a few
other
issues that are unrelated to foundation talks. [1,2]
We do need to tackle this now, considering we are going through vital
parts
of the talks of the Foundation, and both trademarks are planned to be
transferred at some point, but it might be best to start off the
foundation
with the name and logo that isn't necessarily tied to SUSE brand for
easier
legal proceedings between SUSE and the project, depending on the
community
outlook on the ideas.
openSUSE logo issues:
* older version of SUSE logo, which is similar enough to be
confusing, also
will require agreement between future openSUSE Foundation and SUSE to
use the
logo
* colour is too bright and light to stand out well on light
backgrounds [3]
* button variant looks the same as SUSE logo buttons, with the only
exception
being colour (and SUSE tends to use similar green for buttons they
haven't
updated in a long time)
For current proposals, and to propose more visit:
https://github.com/openSUSE/branding/issues/93
openSUSE name issues:
* contains `SUSE`, which will require agreement between future
openSUSE
Foundation and SUSE to use the name (we will need this anyway, because
we will
support older releases, but at least there would be some exit strategy
when
everything goes south built into the name of the foundation)
* we are endlessly complaining about wrong capitalization (and will
for the
rest of time), even SUSE has it easier with "only" SuSE, SuSe and Suse
[4]
* FSF complains about `open`, although that works with openness of the
collaboration, more than `free` or `libre` would (not to mention that
we do
have non-free repos) [5]
There has obviously been a lot of suggestions here, from various
contributors,
stuff like `Viridian Foundation` works quite well for the purposes of
the
naming, because it references SUSE, while not being directly tied to
SUSE name
(although it might be too generic and hard to type).
More important than the name itself however is to decide if we want to
change
the logo and/or the name at all, or we want to leave everything as is.
If we do
decide for a change there we will be able to choose the name and the
logo
through a vote, I or some other designer will just have to design and
fix up
logos proposed by the community for the vote (like it was previously
done with
the YaST mascot/logo, which looked crude before the redesign, but was a
great
community idea). [6]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAgkMlCZiP4
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUZmc4CXzFQ
[3] https://contrast-ratio.com/#%2373ba25-on-white
[4] https://i.imgur.com/ySr4JAA.png
[5] https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html#openSUSE
[6]
https://github.com/yast/yast-theme/commit/1cdb9e9c2545ba1604f8bdf88864e9ae9…
LCP [Stasiek]
https://lcp.world
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Hi there,
being relatively new to the openSUSE community over the past few weeks
I've been digging through websites and wiki. Quite often I stepped into
traps of unclear, misleading or just plain old content. This lead me to
the conclusion that there's urgent need of restructuring lots of things.
The following is a rough braindump strongly intended as RFC. I try to
visualize my thoughts as good as possible with screenshots.
# First sight
The website opensuse.org in overall is looking good and I really like
the coloring. But looking closer there is a lot of clutter which needs
to be restructured.
Important stuff needs to be visible at first glimpse. See the
screenshot taken on a regular FullHD monitor [1] and try to tell what's
this all about - imagining you don't know what openSUSE is. Why not
tell at first sight:
- this is a Linux distribution
- this is how it looks like
- these three things make it outstanding
Positive examples as comparison: Fedora [2], Solus [3]
# Getting information
To get more details I have to scroll quite a lot and/or click very
often in comparison to the amount of information I get in the end. The
waste of space is too high and it should be reduced. Also these
animations are quite annoying. Especially the bouncing circle when
clicking on "How to contribute" > "Code" just to show a few sentences
afterwards.
# Consolidate information
## News
News about ongoing development and information about achievements is
one the crucial thing to be spead out widely. The "News" section on
opensuse.org is just way too small and is just drowned out by the
"Tools" and "Contribute" sections. So we should either remove it there
completely and give it a separate page (See Solus Blog [4]). Or move it
upwards on opensuse.org and make it way more prominent. At least
linking to news.opensuse.org is useless and should be stopped (even
more from a design perspective).
Currently there are way too many places just to get news. Let me
summarize it and - please correct me if I got something wrong:
1. opensuse.org
It grabs first 2-3 sentences of a post and links to it on news.o.o.
2. news.opensuse.org
This filled by Doug and (just guessing) members of news mailing list.
3. lizards.opensuse.org
Looks exactly the same as news.o.o but consists of blog posts by devs
and dev teams. The difference to news.o.o is stated nowhere, the
reasons for this separation not made clear either.
4. planet.opensuse.org
This looks only slightly similar to news.o.o and lizards.o.o, even the
content is different. But: why is dimstar's blog (the TW reviews) and
the Open Build Service blog listed there? Following the logic above it
should at least be in lizards.o.o if not even in news.o.o!
## Website vs. Wiki
Looking at the content of opensuse.org and wiki.opensuse.org I think
there's no clear plan what to put where. My understand of a wiki is a)
collaboratively created content and b) content changing regularly. A
source for documentation if you will.
The "Contribute" section on opensuse.org gives you just a few sentences
but links to a wiki page. This is unnecessary as the ways to contribute
won't hardly change very often. I assume this is mostly done due to the
fact that opensuse.org has hardly any space left for slightly more
detailed information. But that's what a website is made for. Sending
people from URL to URL without giving them a consistent layout is at
best confusing if not frustrating.
Partly positive example: Fedora [5] (sat in comparison to opensuse.org)
That's all for now. I understand that many things have somehow grown
over the years. But as I'm willing to tackle these I am looking forward
to your comments/critics.
Regards,
vinz.
[1] https://vinzv.space/nextcloud/s/HzRmZnH7mwMgkEg
[2] https://vinzv.space/nextcloud/s/nPammszr3Z4me2B
[3] https://vinzv.space/nextcloud/s/G7xwekJPW6S5Dwi
[4] https://getsol.us/blog/
[5] https://vinzv.space/nextcloud/s/nXtaXHfqxwTyAbL
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Hi all,
We may sponsor LibOCon (https://libocon.org) in Almarie, Spain, this
year. If anyone plans on going and would like to help out with a booth
there, please email me.
v/r
Doug
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Hi, Christian:
> <Fraser_Bell> Thanks. BTW: I would join Heroes and work on the Connect.o.o replacements, if I had any idea what I was doing. But, not till elections are over.
> <cboltz> :-)
> <cboltz> the important part of connect.o.o is handling the membership and maybe being a "phonebook" for openSUSE
> <cboltz> the other parts (groups, polls etc.) are more or less useless and can easily be dropped
<snip>
> <cboltz> Fraser_Bell: I also like the https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/profile/$USERNAME pages so if you work on a replacement and keep them, I'll be more than happy ;-)
> <Fraser_Bell> Yes.
<snip>
> cboltz> oh, I'm quite sure someone will happily upgrade you if you promise to do the work ;-)
> <Fraser_Bell> cboltz: Wait until after the Elections, please, I am now down to 20 pounds soaking wet and red, bleary eyes!!!!
Elections are over. Let's get started.
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openSUSE Global Moderator
openSUSE Contributor
YaST Contributor
aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org
Fraser-Bell on Github
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Hi All,
During this years face to face board meeting, the board started more
serious work / discussions in relation to an openSUSE Foundation, to
most people reading this list including our meeting minutes or who were
at the openSUSE conference this comes as little surprise.
The during the meetings the board put together a "Discussion Document"
that outlines a proposed framework of what the board considers would be
the best way to form an openSUSE foundation, what would change, what
would stay the same and what we would require from our biggest partner SUSE.
While the board is yet to formally present and start discussing a
version of this document with SUSE management (we will do so in the
coming days), we have discussed the content face to face with high
levels of SUSE's management and at this stage have general in principle
support to move forward in this direction. So the board would be very
surprised if we were told to go back to the drawing board and start
again. Having said that much of the detail is still up for discussion
and will be worked through over the coming months so the board welcomes
any feedback from the community.
**Foundation Proposal First Discussion Draft**
*Introduction*
The Board has spent most of it's annual F2F meeting with the
continuation of the ongoing discussion about openSUSE's lack of
having/being a legal entity ot it's own. This topic has been out there
almost as long as openSUSE exists, but has returned on the board's table
after the sale of SUSE, and some incidents where not having a legal
entity appeared to be an issue.
SUSE and openSUSE share common roots, history and values. Our current
working relationship is a mutually beneficial "win-win" which we wish to
preserve while simultaneously extending openSUSE's ability to take more
actions on it's own. There is no desire for any increased distance
between SUSE & openSUSE, but to add more capabilities to the openSUSE
Project in addition to the status quo.
Of particular interest is enabling openSUSE to be able to receive and
provide sponsorships (in terms of money, hardware, or contracted
services). Currently such agreements can only be handled by SUSE, which
can discourage and complicate arranging such sponsorships with other
organisations.
The primary purpose of the Foundation is to enable and support the
openSUSE membership and community efforts in all activities of the
openSUSE Project
*Motivations*
- Partnering with organisations outside of SUSE
-Receiving donations
- Being able to spend money on behalf of openSUSE
- Being able to sign contracts with venues, service providers, or other
partners
*Proposed Charter*
- openSUSE Foundation is a legal entity having been founded on the date
of xxxxxxx with the following identity: yyyyyyyyy. The Foundation, in
terms of an entity, should be considered to be distinct from the
software development projects and the promotional activities that it
supports, steers and sustains.
The openSUSE Foundation is a not for profit organisation that believes
in empowering its Contributors so that the user community can benefit
from the best, most-sustainable and most-innovative open source
software. To achieve this, most of the daily work is performed by the
Foundation's Contributors. Nonetheless, certain bodies or committees
will be in charge of work when the decision-taking requires
extraordinary decisions, litigation, conflict resolution, funding,
treasury, strategic technical decisions, strategic technical guidance,
and general guidance on orientations.
In principle, the processes, discussions and decisions of openSUSE
Foundation, of its Committees, of its Board and of its Officers are
public, and decisions are taken in a rational and transparent manner.
*Proposal Summary*
- The Board request that SUSE provide capital stock and help to setup
the foundation
- The Board request that SUSE provide 1 or 2 FTE staffing to handle the
admin work of the foundation alongside the existing work it does
managing the TSP etc
- The Board is open to any discussion regarding bylaws or statues to
codify and guarantee the ongoing productive relationship between SUSE &
openSUSE
- The openSUSE Foundation board will take over the role of the current
openSUSE Board
- The makeup and election / removal of the openSUSE Foundation board
will remain the same as the current openSUSE board as documented in
https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_rules
- The rules for membership of the openSUSE Foundation will remain the
same as the rules for existing openSUSE members with the exception that
members are required to be over 16 as per legal requirements. Existing
openSUSE Members will be invited to become members of the new openSUSE
Foundation
- trademark / intellectual property usage guarantee in case SUSE ever
drops doing Linux distributions (like KDE / Qt) - Ideally/eventually
transfer of openSUSE trademarks into Foundation
*Details for Further Discussion*
- Charter of Foundation needs to be detailed - learning from other free
software foundations like TDF
Lawyer advise needed
- What IT infrastracture and data should remain under the ownership of
SUSE and what should be transfered to the openSUSE Foundation?
- Should the openSUSE foundation become the responsible body for
openSUSE's data and therefore it's GDPR compliance?
- should the openSUSE trademarks and interlectual property be
transferred to Foundation?
*Other Considered Options*
- e. V. (association)
- too easy to "take over" and change purpose
- Structure too inflexible (the board would not be able to continue
to function in its current makeup)
- umbrella organization (like linux foundation)
- Takes ~10% of income, i..e. donations,sponsormoney, own donated
hardware
- openSUSE is too large an organisation for most umbrella
organisations to handle unless openSUSE is only using an umbrella for a
very limited set of features.
- Keeping things the way they currently are
- sometimes causes problems, for example accepting docations is hard
- often unable to partner with other companies as there is no
openSUSE entity that can sign contracts etc.
References:
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Foundationhttps://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylawshttps://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/statutes/https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Next_Decade_Manifesto
Sent on behalf of the openSUSE board.
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SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
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So based on information gathered mostly from the wiki and general
knowledge, I noticed that openSUSE was quite popular between 2008-2012
[2008 I guess this has to do with the first elected board]
Throughout these years it seems every team had a plan, everyone has a
weekly meeting (not just the board) and most mailing lists were at
their peak; but suddenly many wiki pages stop right after that, it's
weird reading about what a team was planning for next week then...
blank.
Things that might be related:
- 2 members stepped down from the 5th board [2012]
- News team almost stops completely around 2011 [Saigkill seems to be
the one who kept pages pretty active at the time]
And I'm sure there're other events that I didn't keep track of but
that doesn't affect the question really
If nothing maybe happened at that exact time then what happened to all
those people who created and used to make the mailing list alive? how
things changed? it kinda bugs me, I'm just wondering because this part
isn't documented and I can't think of anything based on what I've.
Appreciate any input,
Imad
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Hello ladies and gentlemen,
Did you know that People of openSUSE is the second nicest place on the internet?
You probably heard of it but the project was "almost" on hibernation
since the 2012 era. Anyway, a week or so earlier I approached lcp and
he shared his story (link below) and I'm here to encourage more people
to share theirs as well.
I believe it's really important for the healthiness of the community,
getting to know each other more will results in more collaboration and
at the same time help solving misunderstandings smoothly knowing where
each side is coming from. Kinda similar to board candidates interviews
but more friendly and for different cause.
Still hesitated? here's what lcp has to say about it:
"You should never agree to it, but if you do, do it once and never
again." See? I mean if that didn't convince you, nothing will.
Don't let it intimidate you, you can write something similar to "about
me" while waiting for a bus and send it to me, it's no big deal but
will make a difference.
Always open for suggestions,
Imad
* lcp's story: https://news.opensuse.org/2019/06/07/people-of-opensuse-stasiek-michalski/
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Sorry for the delay .....
Present: All
=== Agenda ===
Only item the board has at this moment is the F2F Meeting next week.
=== F2F Meeting ===
This year's main topic will be openSUSE's independence. We will meet Thomas di
Giacomo for dinner on Thursday 23rd to speak to him about this.
One of the issues with an e.V. is that it has no way to maintain a formal
relationship with SUSE. A Foundation done right seems to be the best option,
but needs proper preparation. All this to be discussed during the F2F.
=== Community discussion at oSC19 ===
Simon comes with the idea to shortly inform the community about the plans at
the beginning of oSC19, and discuss this with the Board on Sunday at oSC19.
Richard will contact Ciaran ( SUSE Legal ) to join us for half an hour during
the F2F.
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