October 2012 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] Project meeting minutes
by Robert Schweikert 03 Oct '12

03 Oct '12

Meeting ended Wed Oct 3 17:55:16 2012 UTC. The log and minutes are available from: (v 0.1.4) (01:55:16 PM) bugbot: Minutes: http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-project/2012/opensuse-proje… (01:55:16 PM) bugbot: Minutes (text): http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-project/2012/opensuse-proje… (01:55:16 PM) bugbot: Log: http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-project/2012/opensuse-proje… -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei(a)suse.com rschweik(a)ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] BoF sessions at oSC 2012 can be scheduled now!
by Jos Poortvliet 03 Oct '12

03 Oct '12

Heya folks, We've prepared a wiki page where you can schedule BoF sessions for the openSUSE Conference in Prague: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Conference_BoF_sessions See this page for more about BoF sessions, what it is and how to organize one: http://news.opensuse.org/2012/10/03/osc-2012-bof-sessions-can-be-scheduled/ Note that you will also be able to schedule sessions on the spot but to ensure you have a session and give people some time to plan properly it is better to do it beforehand. Cheers and Have a lot of Fun, Jos

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[opensuse-project] [reminder] openSUSE Project Meeting tomorrow at 17:00 UTC
by openSUSE Meeting Reminder 03 Oct '12

03 Oct '12

Hello all, The biweekly project meeting will be held tomorrow at 17:00 UTC in #opensuse-project on freenode. Everybody is invited to join and participate! Find out what time the meeting will be in your timezone: http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=3&month=10&year=2012&h… Agenda of the meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Project_meeting#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting If you cannot participate and want a specific question to be answered during the meeting, please add your question to: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Project_meeting#Questions_Section Minutes and logs of previous meetings can be found at: http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-project/ Thanks, -- openSUSE Meeting Reminder -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Google Code-In
by Robert Schweikert 02 Oct '12

02 Oct '12

All, Google s once again running the Google Code-In project that we as the openSUSE project have participated in previously. It would be great if someone can step up and drive the organization. Last year Manu did a great job and we had a successful Code-In. Below is the announcement: Later, Robert Hello GSoC Mentors, We are excited to announce [0] that we will be running the Google Code-in [1] contest for 13-17 pre-university students again this fall. The contest will begin for students on Monday, November 26th, 2012 [2]. Organizations will be able to apply to be one of the 10 mentoring organizations beginning Monday, October 22nd (the Monday after the GSoC Mentor Summit in Mountain View, CA). We will have a session on Google Code-in during the Mentor Summit for people to learn more about the program and for previous mentors and org admins to give us their feedback and thoughts on the program. When you read through the Contest Rules for this year you will notice some major changes that we implemented based on your feedback and student feedback from last year. The main points are below with more mentor information on the GCI Wiki [3]. The point system has been overhauled and now every task is worth one point. The 5 students with the highest number of completed tasks with your org will be the pool from which you, the mentoring org, will choose your 2 Grand Prize winners based on the overall complete body of work of those 5 students. There will be 10 Mentoring Orgs for a total of 20 Grand Prize Winners (compared to 10 last year). Translation tasks will no longer be a part of the Google Code-in contest, either as its own category or as a part of documentation efforts. If students want to go for the Grand Prize they will work predominantly with one org and will hopefully become involved with the community of that org and will stay long after the GCI contest is over. Students will not earn cash prizes for their work. They will earn certificates and t-shirts and then they can go for the grand prize if they wish. The contest was shortened by a week at the beginning of the contest period so it will now start after the Thanksgiving holidays in the USA. We hope you will help us spread the word about the Google Code-in contest so we can introduce more young developers to the wonderful world of open source. If you will be going to any talks or conferences aimed at pre-university students in the next couple of months we would be happy to send you some stickers for GCI. Please contact me directly at sttaylor(a)google.com. [0] http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2012/09/google-code-in-contest-for-hi… [1] http://www.google-melange.com/gci/homepage/google/gci2012 [2] http://www.google-melange.com/gci/events/google/gci2012 [3] http://code.google.com/p/google-code-in/wiki/GCIMentorInformation2012 Best, Stephanie Taylor -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei(a)suse.com rschweik(a)ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-marketing] Call for help translation of osc'12 program announcement
by Jos Poortvliet 01 Oct '12

01 Oct '12

On Thursday 27 September 2012 15:32:45 Tony Su wrote: > Everything you suggest is possible and I'm of course willing to setup any > demo people may be interested in. > > The main thing is I would want some kind of concensus from "The Powers > that Be" there would be some kind of future if it really solves the > problem satisfactorly, no one wants to waste time on something that can't > happen. I actually blogged about decision making in openSUSE at some point, see: http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2011/10/discuss-here.html Hopefully that clarifies some things ;-) > The reason why I used the term "shepherding" is because I am always > interested in building something that can live independently of myself-- > I'm not looking to make myself indispensible, from the first day of > anything I do I'm looking to bring on others who want to build the same > thing. > > Also, awhile back I started penciling out what mass Translation for > openSUSE might become. Yes, all things start small. But, if this becomes > important to more people in openSUSE, I'd like to involve anyone who wants > this to enhance what they do and avoid being unable to deliver. > > Tony > > On Sep 27, 2012 2:38 AM, "Jos Poortvliet" <jos(a)opensuse.org> wrote: > > On Wednesday 26 September 2012 15:18:09 Tony Su wrote: > > > Hello Jan (and whoever else receives this, I'm not subscribed to all > > > the mail-lists on CC) > > > > > > Yes, it's quite possible that the initial translations might not be > > > "good enough" -- and ultimately since machine translations today still > > > cannot usually provide better than word for word literal word > > > substitution, "good enough" is probably best defined as understandable > > > although not with the smooth idiomatic linguistic structures that can > > > best be provided by a human being. > > > > > > What machine translation can provide is the ability to get the proper > > > meaning across, to communicate an idea properly. And, if human > > > resources aren't available, this is better than no communication at > > > all. > > > > > > As for accuracy... Particularly for short, "standard expressions" that > > > crop up again and again in the types of documents we produce, > > > Web-based translations provide a means for anyone to submit an > > > improvement or correction. Assuming that Google or Microsoft or > > > whoever is used as the Translation Partner properly evaluates, accepts > > > and implements suggestions for future use of the same expression, we > > > should expect that within rather short order future documents should > > > be translated extremely well. > > > > > > If there is any interest in openSUSE/SUSE to investiggate the > > > capabilities of this technology, a project should be designated that > > > can properly evaluate whether machine translation is worthless or > > > promising and if desired I am willing to shepherd it. > > > > 'shepherd' or 'do' ;-) > > > > I wouldn't know what would be needed to actually TEST this out - but > > you're right that there are plenty of pages not translated in plenty of > > languages. > > > > Quite a few of our sites are in github, maybe you can set up a test > > version with a translation system of, say, openbuildservice.org: fork > > https://github.com/openSUSE/o-b-s.org and add the translation system, > > then run it somewhere so ppl can check it out. If it's better than what > > we have (and from your comments I take it it will be) you can just make > > a merge request to the github repo and the maintainers get it up. And > > done, one down, a dozen to go :D > > > > Then there is the wiki. How do we support our translators with this, can > > google translate be helpful for that? For example, maybe it is possible > > to have an auto-translate run over our wiki pages so all pages get > > translations > > in say the basic 25 languages or so. Then people can edit as things used > > to are... > > > > Is that possible? Is there a mediawiki tool which can crawl our > > en.opensuse.org wiki and, for pages that have no de.opensuse.org, > > fr.opensuse.org etc etc equivalents, create and fill them? If you 'just' > > manage to do that, our wiki has become far more accessible to non-native > > speakers... > > > > Cheers, > > Jos > > > > > Tony > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 1:46 AM, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh(a)inai.de> wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 2012-09-11 23:20, Tony Su wrote: > > > >>Highly recommend posting machine-translated copy using either Google > > > >>Translate(http://translate.google.com/) or Microsoft > > > >>Translate(http://www.bing.com/translator) > > > >> > > > >>Both are free and only take seconds then ask for a native speaker > > > >>review to clean up any idioms and colloquials. > > > >> > > > > The time to weed out the bugs of automatic translation is close to > > > > doing a non-automated, more targeted translation. Especially the > > > > farther east you go on the globe (Japanese TL with Google is pretty > > > > much unusable in either direction) and/or dealing with > > > > highly-technical words (and fillers) - which the announcement is in > > > > no > > > > way short of, like "Call For Papers", "to keynote", "to kick off", > > > > "workshop", "track", "session", "usability expert", and (obviousisms > > > > like) "speakers talking".

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-marketing] Call for help translation of osc'12 program announcement
by Jos Poortvliet 01 Oct '12

01 Oct '12

On Thursday 27 September 2012 15:32:45 Tony Su wrote: > Everything you suggest is possible and I'm of course willing to setup any > demo people may be interested in. > > The main thing is I would want some kind of concensus from "The Powers > that Be" there would be some kind of future if it really solves the > problem satisfactorly, no one wants to waste time on something that can't > happen. Dunno if anyone else here gets skull crushing visions from 'The Powers that Be', I sure don't - I don't think there is anyone who can answer that question I am afraid. However if the demo works it will be up to the website owners to accept merge requests to enable this functionality. They will only do that if they feel it's worth it - as they will have to maintain it in the future. As they don't seem like feeling responding here, I have no idea if they will. That is in part why I suggested to create a demo site of say open- build-service.org - if that works satisfactory, the owners of that site (that'd be Adrian & the rest of the OBS team, I suppose) might like it and be willing to adopt it. If they do, well, in dutch we say "once one sheep has crossed the dam, others will follow". > The reason why I used the term "shepherding" is because I am always > interested in building something that can live independently of myself-- > I'm not looking to make myself indispensible, from the first day of > anything I do I'm looking to bring on others who want to build the same > thing. Unless someone does it, it isn't gonna happen. We've got shepherders plenty, but no sheep interested in doing it until someone has shown it's worth doing. That's what I suggested doing... If you've implemented this and it is accepted by the website admins, that means they are convinced of the value. At that point, it WILL live on independent of you because they have to maintain it and websites which don't implement it might get it just to fall in line. > Also, awhile back I started penciling out what mass Translation for > openSUSE might become. Yes, all things start small. But, if this becomes > important to more people in openSUSE, I'd like to involve anyone who wants > this to enhance what they do and avoid being unable to deliver. It's about the first step - unless it's shown to work on a site and provides some benefit, it won't go anywhere, I'm afraid. That's why I suggested to Just Do It. > Tony > > On Sep 27, 2012 2:38 AM, "Jos Poortvliet" <jos(a)opensuse.org> wrote: > > On Wednesday 26 September 2012 15:18:09 Tony Su wrote: > > > Hello Jan (and whoever else receives this, I'm not subscribed to all > > > the mail-lists on CC) > > > > > > Yes, it's quite possible that the initial translations might not be > > > "good enough" -- and ultimately since machine translations today still > > > cannot usually provide better than word for word literal word > > > substitution, "good enough" is probably best defined as understandable > > > although not with the smooth idiomatic linguistic structures that can > > > best be provided by a human being. > > > > > > What machine translation can provide is the ability to get the proper > > > meaning across, to communicate an idea properly. And, if human > > > resources aren't available, this is better than no communication at > > > all. > > > > > > As for accuracy... Particularly for short, "standard expressions" that > > > crop up again and again in the types of documents we produce, > > > Web-based translations provide a means for anyone to submit an > > > improvement or correction. Assuming that Google or Microsoft or > > > whoever is used as the Translation Partner properly evaluates, accepts > > > and implements suggestions for future use of the same expression, we > > > should expect that within rather short order future documents should > > > be translated extremely well. > > > > > > If there is any interest in openSUSE/SUSE to investiggate the > > > capabilities of this technology, a project should be designated that > > > can properly evaluate whether machine translation is worthless or > > > promising and if desired I am willing to shepherd it. > > > > 'shepherd' or 'do' ;-) > > > > I wouldn't know what would be needed to actually TEST this out - but > > you're right that there are plenty of pages not translated in plenty of > > languages. > > > > Quite a few of our sites are in github, maybe you can set up a test > > version with a translation system of, say, openbuildservice.org: fork > > https://github.com/openSUSE/o-b-s.org and add the translation system, > > then run it somewhere so ppl can check it out. If it's better than what > > we have (and from your comments I take it it will be) you can just make > > a merge request to the github repo and the maintainers get it up. And > > done, one down, a dozen to go :D > > > > Then there is the wiki. How do we support our translators with this, can > > google translate be helpful for that? For example, maybe it is possible > > to have an auto-translate run over our wiki pages so all pages get > > translations > > in say the basic 25 languages or so. Then people can edit as things used > > to are... > > > > Is that possible? Is there a mediawiki tool which can crawl our > > en.opensuse.org wiki and, for pages that have no de.opensuse.org, > > fr.opensuse.org etc etc equivalents, create and fill them? If you 'just' > > manage to do that, our wiki has become far more accessible to non-native > > speakers... > > > > Cheers, > > Jos > > > > > Tony > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 1:46 AM, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh(a)inai.de> wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 2012-09-11 23:20, Tony Su wrote: > > > >>Highly recommend posting machine-translated copy using either Google > > > >>Translate(http://translate.google.com/) or Microsoft > > > >>Translate(http://www.bing.com/translator) > > > >> > > > >>Both are free and only take seconds then ask for a native speaker > > > >>review to clean up any idioms and colloquials. > > > >> > > > > The time to weed out the bugs of automatic translation is close to > > > > doing a non-automated, more targeted translation. Especially the > > > > farther east you go on the globe (Japanese TL with Google is pretty > > > > much unusable in either direction) and/or dealing with > > > > highly-technical words (and fillers) - which the announcement is in > > > > no > > > > way short of, like "Call For Papers", "to keynote", "to kick off", > > > > "workshop", "track", "session", "usability expert", and (obviousisms > > > > like) "speakers talking".

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