May 2007 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] Repository descriptions
by Thomas Hertweck 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

A bit of feedback: The descriptions for various opensuse-related software repositories on the opensuse website[*] are rather disappointing, i.e. a user does not know what these repositories offer. Therefore, it's difficult to know and decide which repository might be worth adding as installation source. This is not such a big problem for experienced opensuse users but it is one in particular for new SuSE users. Just a few examples: - Packman: Packman offers various additional packages for openSUSE. - Guru: Guru's RPM site contains packages optimized for i686 and x86_64. - suser-jengelh: Various packages from the suser-jengelh repository. - Schiele: More packages for various SUSE releases by Robert Schiele can be found here. Some of them are new packages, some of them are just updated packages from the original SUSE ones, and some just fix bugs when SUSE does not provide these bug fixes. - Scorot: Scorot is another repository with many packages. - suser-oc2pus: Various Packages since Suse 8.2. - suser-liviudm: Various packages by Liviu Damian. Well, it's not really surprising that the repository "suser-jengelh" contains "various packages from the suser-jengelh repository", isn't it? I understand that some repositories are huge and thus it's difficult to come up with a better description without going into too much detail. However, it would be great if the maintainers of those repositories (or somebody else with knowledge what these repositories actually offer) could expand the description and at least mention the categories of software that one might expect when adding the repositories. Maybe someone else has an idea how to improve the current situation... I am not sure whether this topic belongs here (because it's about community software repositories) or on the opensuse-wiki list (because it's about the website). Anyway, it's a bit of feedback. Cheers, Th. [*]http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Does this mean OpenSUSE will be dropping Wireshark?
by Jim Pye 02 Jun '07

02 Jun '07

>From an announcement of Arstechnica at http://tinyurl.com/2yjqoq Does this mean OpenSUSE, SLES etc. - which I understand has a lot of engineering force in Germany - will have to drop products like Wireshark? Jim -- Jim Pye PyeNet Universal http://www.pyenet.co.nz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] LTSP on OpenSUSE
by James Tremblay 30 May '07

30 May '07

I have asked the LTSP devs to help us out, > > If it's not to imposing we would like to discuss your findings at 8am -5 > > gmt (edt) June 6 2007 in opensuse-kiwi @ irc.freenode.net would any one mind moving this to, New York (U.S.A. - New York) Wednesday, June 6, 2007 at 10:00:00 AM UTC-4 hours EDT Chicago (U.S.A. - Illinois) Wednesday, June 6, 2007 at 9:00:00 AM UTC-5 hours CDT Frankfurt (Germany - Hesse) Wednesday, June 6, 2007 at 4:00:00 PM UTC+2 hours CEST Delhi (India) Wednesday, June 6, 2007 at 7:30:00 PM UTC+5:30 hours Corresponding UTC (GMT) Wednesday, June 6, 2007 at 14:00:00 --- James Tremblay Director of Technology Newmarket School District Novell CNE 3\4\5 CLE \ NCE in training. http://en.opensuse.org/education --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] LTSP on OpenSUSE
by jamesat＠comcast.net 29 May '07

29 May '07

Current status of LTSP5 on SUSE is: 1. We have kiwi-ltsp chroot image 2. We have packages for ltspfs 3. We have packages for LDM (ltsp display manager) and working ldm, 4. We can mount local devices on clients in the X session of the users on the server manually using ltspfs/fuse 5. To be able to use read-only nfs root we have rudimentary suse-bind-mounts script which needs a lot of improvement In the past I have asked that the ltsp devs try this and let us know where we can improve, I would like to post this request again. please visit http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP for details on how to get set up with what we have. If it's not to imposing we would like to discuss your findings at 8am -5 gmt (edt) June 6 2007 in opensuse-kiwi @ irc.freenode.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] call for joining BUG, the Barbaria Users Group
by Druid 26 May '07

26 May '07

Hi there, Im here proudly to tell you people that we, the BUG founders, just founded the Barbaria Users Group an openSUSE Users Group. Its one of a kind openSUSE group, and I believe a pioneer group. So whats BUG, what is an openSUSE users group? I will tell you, curious people. We have a mission statement in our founding page: "The BUG is an Opensuse Users Group. The goal of BUG is to help opensuse development and adoption". Straight and simple, just like we all are in BUG. We are all long time SuSE users, big fans, and we will always be here, giving support and setting things straight in the openSUSE world. We are friends with the Bavaria Users Group (BvUG) and the Sparta(aaaaaa) Users Group (S[aaaa]UG). But we are not satisfied with the current amount of members. We are growing! And we want YOU in BUG! BUG with us! Do you have the profile to join us? Well, I do hope so, because this is an invitation. An invitation to join us. We are very relaxed we have few (none?) obligations for the members. Feel free to add yourself to our members list in hour mother-site, the home of the braves: http://en.opensuse.org/BUG We are not many (yet). But we are noisy and full of energy. And we are stubborn and we fight the good fight, in a constructive way. We are real warriors. see you in openSUSE Marcio Ferreira --- aka Druid BUG Pioneer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] openSUSE Guiding Principles
by linuxnoob＠wi.rr.com 26 May '07

26 May '07

I think the Guiding Principles is lacking because it does not reference the whole of the OpenSUSE community, specifically, the various forums that serve it. Here's what the Guiding Principles WIKI pages currently says: "Communication Infrastructure Working on free software is based on effective communication on different levels. This is actively facilitated with platforms driven by the project such as the Wiki, mailinglists, IRC or Bugzilla." -- "Guiding Princples" document on the wiki, 1 PM CDT, 2007-05-25 http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de has 29,541 members as of today, http://www.suseforums.net has 19,493, and http://www.opensuse.us has 2852. That's not even mentioning the non-English speaking forums. While there is some account overlap there (I have an account on all three), I think that leaving the forums out of this cuts out a chunk of users who don't follow the OpenSUSE mailing lists or IRC. I'd like to see the following changes: 1. Refer to the forums in the Communication Infrastructure section. 2. Add the various forums in the "Appendix" section as part of the "discussed in the public community" line. Someone should post the resulting draft in each OpenSUSE forum for forum-member feedback. I would be happy to do this for SUSE Forums.net, SUSE Linux Support.de, and OpenSUSE.us. Someone else would need to tackle the non-English forums. 3. Going along with #2, once the forum members have responded, collect the data and return it to the ML, IRC, or wherever it needs to go. As long as I'm told what to do with the data, I'd also be willing to handle this for the aforementioned 3 English forums. ~~ Andrew D., aka andrewd18 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE Guiding Principles
by Cornelius Schumacher 25 May '07

25 May '07

Some members of the openSUSE team at Novell sat down and tried to write down the guiding principles of the openSUSE project. A first draft of the result is attached. It can also be found at http://en.opensuse.org/Guiding_Principles. The guiding principles include sections about what the projects is, what its goals and values are and how the project is governed. Our intent was to capture what the project actually is and what is current practice, not to invent anything new. We hope that this document can help clarifying what openSUSE is all about within the community as well as within Novell. The guiding principles contain the proposal of a board of maintainers for the openSUSE project. We see this board as another step to an open development model which includes the whole openSUSE community, inside and outside of Novell. Please take the current document as a draft and let us know what you think about it and how it can be improved. In the end we would like to come to a version which has broad acceptance and is adopted by the community and Novell. We hope that this can serve as a solid base for the future of the project. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum(a)suse.de>

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Re: [opensuse-project] nasm | yasm
by M Harris 23 May '07

23 May '07

On Tuesday 22 May 2007 23:28, Jonathan Arsenault wrote: > Can you please leave > this one alone as you obviously do not understand its scope and have > nothing to contribute to it. And another thing... I have been monitoring this project list for two months straight... and have received *many* contradictory signals which would lead me to believe that the major players in this list do not agree as to its scope and context... in fact, one individual just a few short days ago told me that this list was the proper venue for certain social [OT]... and another individual spoke up and said, "why not," and others vehemently decried the entire attempt and were outraged that a troll had descended upon there sacred ground shod in dusty sandals. You are right of course... how could I possibly understand the scope... and who in the world is there to teach me? -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] nasm | yasm
by M Harris 23 May '07

23 May '07

On Tuesday 22 May 2007 23:28, Jonathan Arsenault wrote: > This belong to the -factory mailing list Not here. Can you please leave > this one alone as you obviously do not understand its scope and have > nothing to contribute to it. Thank you. I am learning new things every day, and I appreciate your help. > Look like out legion of troll are finding it already :( Use French. Ps... oh, I remember you... wanted in all 48 continental United States (and Quebec, and Ontario) for snotty posting... I even have your picture here somewhere.... -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] nasm | yasm
by M Harris 22 May '07

22 May '07

Can we add the nasm | yasm packages to the CD distribution for 10.3 opensuse. The packages are on the DVD, but they are missing from the CDs (at least on 10.0). (if possible) Thanks. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] about the fud speculation thread
by Druid 22 May '07

22 May '07

Hi First of all Im posting in a separate thread because Ive jsut subscribed to the list, which is a thing I did not want, as I dont see many things get done via mailing lists,and having one more even, meh. But well, since some people asked me and since Ive been reading stuff in the lists.opensuse.org, here I am. I know you people are going to love, because Im a lovable person. But lets get to the point. Here it goes, and its about mharris post and bad attitude: I dont know what exactly do you want. I cant understand. You always post lots of bad news about Novell, that are based on speculation and I really dont understand how exactly this helps the project. Can you explain how is this helping the project? I fail to see. I dont see any proposal, any action, anything useful coming from those threads, all I see is that it wastes people's time. People that do useful things, that take actions, rea actions, in opensuse. The reason there is always not a single positive result about yours and others threads is that you people are doing it with the sole purpose to "release your stress" by bashing someone, in a topic that will probably get som support from others, even if they dont understand, because the favourite sport of the season, it seems, is to bash novell and opensuse. People like you releasing and posting news like you that pretend to know things like you are rotting the discussions. People that you say that know better, that your news are based on facts known by lawyers. The news you said that are facts like the one saying novell violates gplv2 and should stop distributing linux. Those are facts right? It wasnt speculation, or fud, it was 100% facts right, like if I was looking at the sky and saying it is blue. I know "forget" that, as it is convenient. And if its 100% correct, why not forward it to a suse list and take a shot on novell right? It will be a stress-release activity, people will know me ("I need public attention"), that cant go wrong. People on the list that if they care they probably already know about it, as it is in any lkinux news site. Yeah, sounds like a damn good idea. And now you take it to here, which is a place that Ive heard from pals that IS WORKING. That get things done. Why? To waste people's time in here too? I will be a bit paranoia mode nonsense and ask here: do you want all this damn project to fail as a whole? Your actions seems to indicate exactly that. People cant see other people doing positive things that they need to come right away and bash and criticize them. Its a damn shame. That is when I look at those colaborative projects an think "it will fail". Because nocive people like you can and are successfully disrupting the activities of the project. And you say you would take it to another list? That would be excellent, but I doubt (and bet) you wouldnt take it to another list, because you like the attention it draws over you, it makes you feel special, right? You would never post it to a list for that, because here and in opensuse@opensuse it irritates dar more people right? Of course I dont expect anything different as replies to my email than people complaining about my language or addressing completely different things from my topic in this email, as its the usual, and its even more disappointing... Heck, I dont even think people will address any of the points of this email. Disappointed with mankind. Marcio --- druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] SUSE Vouchers Have No Expiration Date! (Unlike MS's Patent Bullying)
by M Harris 21 May '07

21 May '07

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070518124020691 Groklaw covers the story... "No wonder, as Moglen puts it, Microsoft has been tossing the vouchers wholesale out of airplanes "as though the coupons themselves were hot, as indeed they are". But now here comes Moglen saying even that won't work, because of the lack of an expiration date on the vouchers." -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE PR on Novell
by Francis Giannaros 19 May '07

19 May '07

On a good note, I'm really happy to hear that some discussions have been going on about Novell marketing with regard to openSUSE. It would be really nice if we could know the results of those discussions. I thought I'd just raise http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/comparative.html also as one of the items that needs to be changed. "Linux users and technical enthusiasts, experienced computer users and community developers" There also seems to be some other misconceptions in that comparison, like "Retail" instead of mentioning online download as well. A little unsure about the "limited availability" of security patches. These are guaranteed, right? Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] survey draft for 3rd party software on openSUSE
by Michael Loeffler 17 May '07

17 May '07

Hi, we created a survey -still draft version- with the goal to get better knowledge about the usage of proprietary 3rd party sofware we ship with some versions of openSUSE. Based on the survey we'd like to decide about what we ship in future versions of openSUSE regarding proprietary software. Please have a look at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/Users/33889499/Surveys/413433852485/CC07C39C-76… and give feedback on the list. After incorporation of your feedback we'll announce the survey to get broad feedback. Best Michael -- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nuremberg SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] openSUSE PR on Novell
by Kai Ponte 15 May '07

15 May '07

On Mon, May 14, 2007 3:50 pm, Martin Schlander wrote: > Den Monday 14 May 2007 03:44:30 skrev James Tremblay: >> you probably installed it for them giving them the upper hand on "Joe User" >> in regards to dealing with the package manager. No one is disputing that >> once it's installed openSUSE is the most wonderful and usable distro available. > > I'm a little split here - I can accept that Novell marketing says it's for > enthusiasts. Non-enthusiasts can use it with a little > enthusiast-hand-holding - and exactly the same goes for MS Windows or Ubuntu > when it's not preinstalled and preconfigured. Even then - whether Wintendo, The Cult of Mac or SUSE - the "average" user will easily get lost and need some hand-holding. > > Do the enterprise users install and configure the system themselves? I'd think > they have some admins for that. No, they have low-paid college techs for that. > What percentage of MS Windows users > install > their own operating system? I'd be surprised if it were greater than 2-3%. > To some extent any not-preinstalled OS is for enthusiasts, but that's no > reason to discourage people from using it. > > Dell and Ubuntu are saying the same thing about Ubuntu - that it's targetting > the enthusiast market. It's when Novell people say it's "bleeding edge for > geeks" that they really cross the line and my blood starts to boil. Agreed! That is pretty stupid on the part of Novell. But then this is the same company which trumpeted Netware 4.0 as "better" than the 3.x series. Maybe some of the same marketing clods are working there. > > I don't agree with Justin Steinman that we are worse than neither Ubuntu nor > MS Windows wrt. stability or usability. We certainly have room for improvement, but those products damn sure do too. > > My point of view is that Novell people don't seem to realize the quality > openSUSE has to compared to other free as in beer distros with regular releases. There's absolutely no reason not to recommend it. > > Of course 10.1 was a disaster ...actually only the Beagle thingy (still a problem in 10.2) and Zen (still a problem in 10.2) are disasters. The rest seems to work fine. > but any sane person will have repressed > that > from their memory. And there's no reason to believe problems of that magnitude can re-occur. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Project launch: openSUSE Software Portal / Application Manager
by Pascal Bleser 12 May '07

12 May '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 (sorry for the somewhat exhaustive list of recipients, just trying to spread the word and hunt for participants) We had our kickoff openSUSE Software Portal project meeting today. The goals are to provide the best possible end-user experience with regards to package installation/upgrading at large. The idea is to provide several software components and services: * a server backend that aggregates various kinds of information * a web client, including one-click installation (yast2-mpp) * a desktop client (GTK/Qt/YaST) More information about the project: http://en.opensuse.org/Software_Portal http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2007/05/project-launch-opensuse-software-porta… Basic infrastructure is set up, so if you want to join the effort (any help is more than welcome), please subscribe to our mailing-list [1] We're definitely looking for Java/Python/YCP developers, web designers, artwork designers, and people with ideas, suggestions, and motivation. [1]http://forge.novell.com/mailman/listinfo/appinstaller-devel Please spread the word ;) cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <pascal.bleser(a)skynet.be> <guru(a)unixtech.be> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGRk8Hr3NMWliFcXcRAnufAJ9fU68sxeaKL8NoKKYWQRtuQKGRZQCdGHeU A/HjKGDtiVefXYQ9AjU6Kmg= =JH/6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-wiki] New Download Page
by Nikolay Derkach 11 May '07

11 May '07

В сообщении от Friday 11 May 2007 16:12:36 Martin Schlander написал(а): > > > - I fear the way it looks now people with support for 64bit will feel > > > they must get the 64bit version. Which is likely to cause them a few > > > problems they would not face if they installed the 32bit version. > > > > Like what? > > Honestly if there are problems running 64bit stuff on a 64bit system > > then these problems should be reported and we should try to fix them. > > Little things that are not really fixable by a distributor. If it causes problems for you it's worth to report bugs, for others x86_64 system works fine. BTW: other disributions indeed have more biarch issues. > - There are more x86-packages. Subjective point, wrt. main repositories, Build Service and main external repos have packages for both architectures. > - w32codecs don't work with 64bit players (I believe). Of course you can > play almost everything with free codecs these days, but still.. Wrong, it works for me. > - Java apps such as limewire or azureus tend to cause problems Again, report bugs... > - tarballs compile more often without problems on 32bit I think, A user should not compile, this is packager's work. > - biarch can cause some problems, people must remember to keep 32bit > firefox to have working java webplugin. I don't use ff, but in konqueror java apps do work. > > Stuff like that.. Summary: we should decrease number of 32bit packages on biarch systems as far as possible. -- Regards, Nikolay Derkach --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] ltsp on openSUSE
by James Tremblay 11 May '07

11 May '07

I have just completed the first set of installation instructions for LTSP on Opensuse 10.2 Could I ask that those interested in using this give it a try. Could I also ask the LTSP devs to give it a try. I know opensuse is foreign to most of you but your input on what is missing and what can be done to finish it up would be deeply appreciated. Cyberorg and I are in the #opensuse-kiwi forum at irc.freenode.net daily starting around 6:30 am EST and there until somewhere around noon. schaefi is the core dev for KIWI and he can be left messages in the forum pertaining to things that need to be done to the chroot and kiwi in general. -- James Tremblay Director of Technology Newmarket School District Novell CNE 3\4\5 CLE \ NCE in training. http://en.opensuse.org/education --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] More bad PR from Novell
by Francis Giannaros 10 May '07

10 May '07

So I have to rush out, but once again, some Novell PR guys have done it again. This time it's from Bruce Lowry, who druid was in correspondence with precisely about this issue! He appeared to understand the problem and said that they're working on changing that. Nevertheless, directly from his blog http://www.novell.com/prblogs/?p=326 we have: * "openSUSE is targeted at the technical enthusiasts who want a cutting-edge distribution to sample the latest and greatest Linux technology." I'm quite angry again so I won't email him straight away; perhaps later. :) Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] <sigh>.. more explaining needed wrt. MS-deal
by Martin Schlander 10 May '07

10 May '07

Today some information that's new to me and apparently to most others surfaces. Apparently the patent-part of the deal does not _only_ cover customers. Our good friend Justin Steinman says: "... in order to deliver the interoperability between Novell eDirectory and Microsoft Active Directory, as well as the bidirectional virtualization between Windows and SUSE Linux Enterprise, Novell required sanctioned access to Microsoft's code in order to develop open source interoperability without violating Microsoft's intellectual property." http://www.businessreviewonline.com/os/archives/2007/05/novell_confirms.html Now the eDirectory and Active Directory part I don't care much about - though I wonder how I missed this information before. I thought I had followed the debate pretty closely. But what's really concerning is that to me it seems like he's saying XEN (or at least the Novell edition) will be covered by MS "intellectual property" in the future. Can someone explain this to me. It would be nice to be prepared when people start attacking us again. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-wiki] KDE vs GNOME default FAQ
by Francis Giannaros 10 May '07

10 May '07

On 5/8/07, Frank Sundermeyer <fs(a)suse.de> wrote: > On Monday 07 May 2007 09:00, Andreas Jaeger wrote: > > Hi, > > > So, how should we phrase the FAQ? Here's one proposal. > > > > Q: What is the default desktop of openSUSE - GNOME or KDE? > > > > A: openSUSE supports a number of popular desktop environments, > > including GNOME and KDE. During installation, the user is asked to > > choose between GNOME and KDE but no default is given. Both desktop > > environments are mature and feature-rich, which one a user choose is > > a question of personal taste. > > since nobody objected, I put it onto the FAQ page: > > http://en.opensuse.org/Faq#What_is_the_default_desktop_of_openSUSE_-_GNOME_… > > -- > Regards > Frank Looks great; thanks Frank, Aj. One thought that just came to me though, why not change the first sentence to say: "openSUSE supports a number of popular desktop environments, including GNOME, KDE, and Xfce." What do you think? Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] "Legal" help for FAQ:Novell-MS
by Martin Schlander 08 May '07

08 May '07

A couple of people are trying to write yet another MS-N FAQ to try to diffuse some of the misunderstandings and FUD, which continue to hurt openSUSE. http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS One common misunderstanding is that Novell and MS are now friends and partners in general, can someone confirm: 1) That Novell still have litigation againt MS in the US about WordPerfect? 2) That Novell are active wrt. the current EU case against MS (mentioned here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267898,00.html) Any other input that could help would also be appreciated. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Community Meeting: Package Manager Redesign on Saturday May, 12, 2007
by Justin Haygood 08 May '07

08 May '07

This meeting is to discuss the initial stages of the package manager redesign (see http://en.opensuse.org/Package_Manager_Redesign) What: Package Manager Redesign domain discussion Where: IRC #opensuse-project, Saturday May 12, 2007: 20:00 GMT S(http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=12&month=5&year=… Who: Java programmers, MySQL developers, Artwork people, Packagers, web designers, anyone else interested (SUSE employees, etc..) Topics: * Definition of the project: goals * Domain of project: what it should provide, usecases and solutions * Initial planning (what we want in initial revision, what we want ready by OpenSUSE version X) If you want to help make OpenSUSE the best desktop platform in regards to adding, removing, and searching for applications (our focus is on applications, not packages for this project), you should come. Some decisions already made: 1. Java backend for the metadata service, maybe for frontend 2. MySQL 5.0 database Other decisions have yet to be made, so come! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Multimedia support ie. aasy installation
by Rajko M. 07 May '07

07 May '07

It could be easier for new users with interest in multimedia to have system up and running if retail version can include applications complied with that support. The survey shows that most of participants obtain openSUSE via download. 1) is it possible that if retail box would offer MM and maybe few other goodies for extra price that it would be much more popular? 2) Is it so expensive or legally impossible to have media applications that work out of the box? 3) Is it possible that "Multimedia openSUSE" can fit a bill for the OEMs and users that don't want to hunt versions with MM support enabled? The present situation is in a long run bad for both financial or adoption goals. -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Add/Remove Programs idea
by Justin Haygood 07 May '07

07 May '07

After all of the package management discussion, I had an idea. Why not port Ubuntu's gnome-app-install to zypp for GNOME users? (Or create our own). This will provide an easy to use interface to install applications (not packages, not patterns, applications!). Why is this needed? Aunt Jill or Grandpa Bill or Cousin Fred who used Windows doesn't know or care what a package is, but knows very much what an application is. What I forsee: 1. An easy to use Application Installer that prompts for root password only before installation 2. The Application Installer has a list of applications in various categories, with the icon, name, description, and potentially user reviews, screenshots, etc.. (similar to Linspire CNR) 3. Uses zypp sources to provide the package data, extra information can come from a web service. 4. Installation happens natively using zypp What do people think? I'm very willing to commit resources (programming abilities and free time) for this idea. It would probably need to be broken down until 3 parts: 1. C++ Library to fetch application information from zypp and web services 2. GTK/GNOME front-end 3. KDE/Qt front-end --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: openSUSE survey results now online
by Jakub Jóźwicki 06 May '07

06 May '07

Hello, Could you make these results available in public as a sql dump? Then some data mining could be done to extract useful and meaningful results. Regards, Jakub -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE survey results now online
by Michael Loeffler 06 May '07

06 May '07

Hi all, the openSUSE survey results are now online. The survey was live for almost 3 months and more than 27,000 user participated. Thank you all for your participation. With your input we all are able to make openSUSE better and better. The winners will be informed shortly. The results are now available at openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/UX#Explore_user_experiences or direct link to the pdf: http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/6/6c/Opensuse_survey_102_data_final.p… Michael -- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nuremberg SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] The project contributions guidelines?
by Rajko M. 06 May '07

06 May '07

Do we need something like this: http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/guidelines.html We have some articles, but this is all in one place. The missing part in openSUSE is about commercial activity. Guys that doesn't have SLES and SLED size of a business, may have some impact on openSUSE budget, if they get opportunity. -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Winner - Slogan for openSUSE
by Sabine Soellheim 05 May '07

05 May '07

Hi Again thank you for participating in the search for a slogan for the openSUSE project. We ended the vote last Friday. You were able to vote between nine pre-selected slogan. We did choose the slogans based on your feedback and with the intention to avoid any trademark violations. The winner is “openSUSE – Linux for open minds” with 64 votes - Alberto Passalaqua. We are going to contact the winner to reward him with a 50 cm stuffed Tux. Best, Sabine Sabine Soellheim Product Marketing Manager Novell SUSE Linux Products GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Slogan proposal: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts
by Martin Schlander 03 May '07

03 May '07

<rant> Since there's yet to be an announcement for a slogan/mission statement, I'd like to make a new suggestion, one of "our own" marketing geniuses Justin Steinman came up with this brilliant idea: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/11546/1103/1/2/ Boy would that look good on the wiki front page. I know it was already discussed at the irc meeting. But some more or less official announcements that Ubuntu will be preloaded on Dell boxes, made me feel like quoting the guy again. Thanks a lot for the help. </rant> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Slogan proposal: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts
by Jordi Massaguer 02 May '07

02 May '07

When I say Canonical are not doing the same about the support, I mean about the updates. However, they offer you support for each installation so, if you have 50 Ubuntu installed, you will pay 50 support contracts, but that does not include the updates, that are free and open for everyone, and they have one single distro. At least it is an interesting model, isn't it? jordi ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Jordi Massaguer <jordimassaguerpla(a)yahoo.es> Para: James Tremblay <jamesat(a)comcast.net>; opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org Enviado: miércoles, 2 de mayo, 2007 15:51:26 Asunto: Re: [opensuse-project] Slogan proposal: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts ----- Mensaje original ---- De: James Tremblay <jamesat(a)comcast.net> Para: opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org Enviado: miércoles, 2 de mayo, 2007 14:00:02 Asunto: Re: [opensuse-project] Slogan proposal: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts > I think it is a misinterpretation of what the > cost of SLED is to call it licensing. I think it has been and be should be > marketed as long term support. If you purchase a "subscription" to SLED you > get a year of patches\updates and online support for the worlds most stable, > innovative, enterprise ready desktop, all of 50 $ US. Still sounds like the > best OS deal going to me, even though my personal HD is loaded with 10.2. ;) If you have to purchase a "subscription" for every SLED you have, that is very similar to a license. If you have 50 installations, you will be paying for the same updates 50 times, when you already have the source code. Moreover, the community is not getting those updates, at least not directly. So again, there are two distributions and the Gnome guys may have to work double: work for SLED, and for OpenSuSE. I know RedHat is doing the same, and a lot of others in the open source business, so maybe is the way to make it profitable. However, Canonical is not doing that with Ubuntu. We will see if they get successful with that model. At least, that is the vision from an outsider. greetings, jordi massaguer pla ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Slogan proposal: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts
by Jordi Massaguer 02 May '07

02 May '07

----- Mensaje original ---- De: James Tremblay <jamesat(a)comcast.net> Para: opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org Enviado: miércoles, 2 de mayo, 2007 14:00:02 Asunto: Re: [opensuse-project] Slogan proposal: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts > I think it is a misinterpretation of what the > cost of SLED is to call it licensing. I think it has been and be should be > marketed as long term support. If you purchase a "subscription" to SLED you > get a year of patches\updates and online support for the worlds most stable, > innovative, enterprise ready desktop, all of 50 $ US. Still sounds like the > best OS deal going to me, even though my personal HD is loaded with 10.2. ;) If you have to purchase a "subscription" for every SLED you have, that is very similar to a license. If you have 50 installations, you will be paying for the same updates 50 times, when you already have the source code. Moreover, the community is not getting those updates, at least not directly. So again, there are two distributions and the Gnome guys may have to work double: work for SLED, and for OpenSuSE. I know RedHat is doing the same, and a lot of others in the open source business, so maybe is the way to make it profitable. However, Canonical is not doing that with Ubuntu. We will see if they get successful with that model. At least, that is the vision from an outsider. greetings, jordi massaguer pla ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Slogan proposal: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts
by Jordi Massaguer 02 May '07

02 May '07

I think we are not talking about what Novell has done for the community or what Ubuntu has done, but the fact that there are two communitites, the open one (openSuSE) and the "consortium one" (SLED/S). The first is open to everyone, but has no commercial support, no security certification (I am talking about EAL), no certification of professionals or companies. The second one has all that but it is not open to everyone. Only the ones that have paid would have the updates and the code of them, so it is something like a consortium. In the other hand, Ubuntu has only one community, one distribution, and everyone gets the updates. But it is not EAL4+ certified (that takes time, so money, to do it). Then, we have two communities, two distributions, two bug trackers,.... and also we have to pay a license for using each SLED or SLES (so it is not really free). SLES and SLED are products based on free (as in speech) code but are not free ( the updates can not be redistributed). In my opinion, it would be better to have only one big and strong open community around SLED and SLES and not base the business on the licenses, but on hours of support (for example you could pay x€ a year for having Yhours of support), and on certify partners, certify hardware, certify software and develop custom solutions based on SLES and SLED (Point of Sale for example). However, this is more difficult than selling licenses (and less scalable) but you may have a better product. Having one community does not mean having only one distribution. Well done, we could have multiple ones (Desktop Professional, Server Professional, POS, Education, Home Desktop, ....) build using the OpenBuildService, but have some common code (code10, code11, ....) and some especific one (for example the Home Desktop could have some stuff that is not EAL4+ certified (OpenSuSE right now?)). Teorically, it should be more productive to have one community based on the same code and multiple products than having multiple communities, right? Just my 5c. greetings, ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Silviu Marin-Caea <silviu_marin-caea(a)fieldinsights.ro> Para: opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org Enviado: miércoles, 2 de mayo, 2007 8:54:55 Asunto: Re: [opensuse-project] Slogan proposal: openSUSE - Not for my mom, but for tech enthusiasts On Wednesday 02 May 2007 02:00:42 am M Harris wrote: >The reason I would purchase SLED, SLES is to receive world > class tiered support, printed documentation, voice support, > indemnification, etc. You are kidding yourself with the support story. This just doesn't bring enough cash. I don't see people buy support if the product runs well. Novell would starve. It's a vicious circle that I don't know an escape for. Oracle support is making nice cash, but does Oracle run well? Oh, my... Printed documentation and xROMware mean a logistics effort that cancels almost all profit that can be made selling that. Software IT companies try to make money online these days, without moving boxes. I am curious as to Ubuntu LTS sales, that actually bring money in. Ubuntu was and is always in the red. It's just some dude that happens to like this toy and spends money on it. It's not so bad for Linux actually, but it just doesn't feel sustainable. I am also curious about the number of core, heavy stuff developers that Ubuntu pays salaries to? Do they have any kernel people, glibc people on payroll, like Novell does? Wouldn't think so. However, Mr. Mark Shuttleworth is a KDE patron, so that's something. But I don't know how much this means in cold hard cash. Would be interesting. What is Novell supposed to do? Adopt a dot com billionaire willing to spend the dough? Yet, the "community" is suckered like a stupid bitch on Ubuntu ware. Novell did a number of great deeds with SUSE, like making the ISOs download-able, paying developers for the heavy stuff I mentioned above and so on. Novell practically _makes_ Gnome, and a lot of KDE too. Does Novell make this known to the community? Not so much. Do the Ubuntu crowd know about the contributions that Novell makes? Doubtly (they are all bent on the MS deal that has wiped away in a second all the rest of the good stuff). With all this worthy material to work with, the Novell marketing manages to not make good use of it. Gee, I wonder how much do those Microsoft marketing people cost? :-) Ubuntu is a packaging distro. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Unknown hardware? Let me have a look...
by Magnus Boman 01 May '07

01 May '07

Hello all! I would like to put forward an idea that I have, which could simplify the life for Linux users... The concept is simple, but the implementation is probably not :-/ Today, when I install openSUSE on my machine, it will detect most of my hardware just fine. But there are some hardware that could not be identified properly, for instance my monitors. What I would like to see, is that during the install, some magic is built in that can automatically (after the user approves) go out to the internet to see if there are any drivers for the specific hardware. There should also be an daemon running on the machine, that detects when new hardware has been attached and there are no available drivers for it. It should then suggest that it can look it up on the internet. If a driver is found, it should be downloaded and installed onto the system. The hosting website should also be able to keep track of what sort of hardware that has not been properly identified so that the next version of the distro can include them. For something like a monitor, it could be as simple as letting users add the needed mode lines etc to the website and it would be downloaded and put into SaX2's database. I think it would also be good if that same website would know about free proprietary (but re-distributable) drivers and let the user select whether he wants to download them or not. We currently have this in the "Desktop Effects" utility, but users might want to have the driver for other purposes than a 3D Desktop. Does anyone think that this would be a good idea and if so, how should we proceed? Thanks, Magnus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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