[opensuse-packaging] dropping obsolete shared library packages?
Hallo. In 11.0 we will have a new rules for shared library package names. It implies a question: What happens with old shared library packages after increment of soname. We cannot obsolete them (third party can still use them) and we should not not-obsolete them (as it will cause increasing number of orphaned packages in the system). Is there any solution for it? I can imagine several possibilities: Packaging level: Weak-Obsoletes as counterpart of Recommends: Delete, if it will not causes breakage. Zypp level: Handle packages named lib*[number] Advanced zypp level: Discriminate between explicitly required and dependent packages External script level: Find and delete all obsolete libraries ... -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 966, +49 911 740538747 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 26. Februar 2008 schrieb Stanislav Brabec:
Packaging level: Weak-Obsoletes as counterpart of Recommends: Delete, if it will not causes breakage.
Zypp level: Handle packages named lib*[number]
The solution we discussed is a combination of these to. We will maintain a list per product of packages to be weak-obsoleted at zypp level. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 26 February 2008, Stephan Kulow wrote:
The solution we discussed is a combination of these to. We will maintain a list per product of packages to be weak-obsoleted at zypp level.
Hopefully it will remember that I installed libstdc++5 (as an example) manually and not deinstall it upon each upgrade again. Greetings, Dirk -- RPMLINT information under http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/RpmLint --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Dirk Mueller:
On Tuesday 26 February 2008, Stephan Kulow wrote:
The solution we discussed is a combination of these to. We will maintain a list per product of packages to be weak-obsoleted at zypp level.
Hopefully it will remember that I installed libstdc++5 (as an example) manually and not deinstall it upon each upgrade again.
Don't give up your hope - but it will :) But you can lock any package you like. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008, Stanislav Brabec wrote:
Hallo.
In 11.0 we will have a new rules for shared library package names.
It implies a question:
What happens with old shared library packages after increment of soname. We cannot obsolete them (third party can still use them) and we should not not-obsolete them (as it will cause increasing number of orphaned packages in the system).
Is there any solution for it?
Shared library packages (now, you need a way to automatically recognize these) should be auto-removed once there is no dependency left on them. They can be re-installed if they become required again from an old installation-source or if we decide to put them on a new media anyway because it is widely used (it just won't be called compat-* anymore). IMHO of course. Richard. -- Richard Guenther <rguenther@suse.de> Novell / SUSE Labs SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nuernberg - AG Nuernberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:23:17AM +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008, Stanislav Brabec wrote:
Hallo.
In 11.0 we will have a new rules for shared library package names.
It implies a question:
What happens with old shared library packages after increment of soname. We cannot obsolete them (third party can still use them) and we should not not-obsolete them (as it will cause increasing number of orphaned packages in the system).
Is there any solution for it?
Shared library packages (now, you need a way to automatically recognize these) should be auto-removed once there is no dependency left on them.
They can be re-installed if they become required again from an old installation-source or if we decide to put them on a new media anyway because it is widely used (it just won't be called compat-* anymore).
IMHO of course.
You should perhaps experienced the nightmares I just had with Acrobat Reader and its new library dependencies. Then you just do not want that. ;) Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:23:17AM +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008, Stanislav Brabec wrote:
Hallo.
In 11.0 we will have a new rules for shared library package names.
It implies a question:
What happens with old shared library packages after increment of soname. We cannot obsolete them (third party can still use them) and we should not not-obsolete them (as it will cause increasing number of orphaned packages in the system).
Is there any solution for it?
Shared library packages (now, you need a way to automatically recognize these) should be auto-removed once there is no dependency left on them.
They can be re-installed if they become required again from an old installation-source or if we decide to put them on a new media anyway because it is widely used (it just won't be called compat-* anymore).
IMHO of course.
You should perhaps experienced the nightmares I just had with Acrobat Reader and its new library dependencies.
Then you just do not want that. ;)
Can you be more specific? Richard. -- Richard Guenther <rguenther@suse.de> Novell / SUSE Labs SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nuernberg - AG Nuernberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
On 2/27/2008 at 11:23, Richard Guenther <rguenther@suse.de> wrote: Shared library packages (now, you need a way to automatically recognize these) should be auto-removed once there is no dependency left on them.
They can be re-installed if they become required again from an old installation-source or if we decide to put them on a new media anyway because it is widely used (it just won't be called compat-* anymore).
The problem might be: I install libSDL (a shared library, just an example) using my favourite package manager, the RPM database knows about it. then I download whatever game as source code and compile and install it. It will be rather impossible for any package manager in this case to NOW that I have anything on my system that still 'depends' on libSDL (in other means than in RPM terminology). Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
On 2/27/2008 at 11:23, Richard Guenther <rguenther@suse.de> wrote: Shared library packages (now, you need a way to automatically recognize these) should be auto-removed once there is no dependency left on them.
They can be re-installed if they become required again from an old installation-source or if we decide to put them on a new media anyway because it is widely used (it just won't be called compat-* anymore).
The problem might be: I install libSDL (a shared library, just an example) using my favourite package manager, the RPM database knows about it. then I download whatever game as source code and compile and install it.
It will be rather impossible for any package manager in this case to NOW that I have anything on my system that still 'depends' on libSDL (in other means than in RPM terminology).
That's true. What I'd like to see here is that your favorite package manager remembers which libraries you installed explicitly and do not auto-remove those. At least this is what apt does in Debian. Richard. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
* Richard Guenther (rguenther@suse.de) [20080227 10:53]:
That's true. What I'd like to see here is that your favorite package manager remembers which libraries you installed explicitly and do not auto-remove those. At least this is what apt does in Debian.
Woudn't help you if the -devel pacakge is installed because it's part of a pattern like "KDE development", would it? Philipp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Philipp Thomas wrote:
* Richard Guenther (rguenther@suse.de) [20080227 10:53]:
That's true. What I'd like to see here is that your favorite package manager remembers which libraries you installed explicitly and do not auto-remove those. At least this is what apt does in Debian.
Woudn't help you if the -devel pacakge is installed because it's part of a pattern like "KDE development", would it?
Well, if the pattern requires the -devel package (which requires the shlib package) then it would stay because the pattern is not removed. Of course I may be confused as to how "patterns" interact with rpm dependencies. A naive implementation using a rpm with just rpm requires would work this way at least. Richard. -- Richard Guenther <rguenther@suse.de> Novell / SUSE Labs SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nuernberg - AG Nuernberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
Richard Guenther wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Philipp Thomas wrote:
Well, if the pattern requires the -devel package (which requires the shlib package) then it would stay because the pattern is not removed.
No. It will upgrade, drop old library and force you to recompile to make it working again. -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 966, +49 911 740538747 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
* Dominique Leuenberger (Dominique.Leuenberger@TMF-Group.com) [20080227 10:36]:
then I download whatever game as source code and compile and install it.
Anyone who installs via 'make install' and thus circumvents the rpm database is on his own. There is simply no way to cater for those folks. These need to either use checkinstall or at least install a pseudo rpm that only contains the dependencies. Philipp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
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Dirk Mueller -
Dominique Leuenberger -
Marcus Meissner -
Philipp Thomas -
Richard Guenther -
Stanislav Brabec -
Stephan Kulow