This is a poll about documentation of which distro is complete and intelligible:
http://translate.google.ru/translate?hl=ru&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=ru...
It seems SUSE and openSUSE anre outsiders...
Hi,
This is a poll about documentation of which distro is complete and intelligible:
http://translate.google.ru/translate?hl=ru&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=ru...
It seems SUSE and openSUSE anre outsiders...
Interesting, but I don't think this is reliable. There are so many factors that can influence the result that I doubt such polls have any value. (By the way, my opinion would be the same, if openSUSE would be the "winner".)
For example, the poll doesn't answer *why* the documentation of Arch Linux is considered better than Gentoo, Debian, etc. A total vote of 1160 is not statistically relevant either...
So, relax, take a deep breath and move further. :-)
That we are low in the polls says we need to make our documentation much more obvious and accesible. Its odd that I have to hunt through Novell site for the actual manuals. Further, though they can be installed from repos... they aren't obvious as to where they went.
Hi Roger,
Am Samstag, 3. Dezember 2011, 01:34:52 schrieb Roger Luedecke:
That we are low in the polls says ...
Sorry, but I disagree. I don't think this poll has any relevance. It can be a lot of reasons why we are "low". One reason is that it is a Russian site so we can assume it is geographical focused on Russia. That means, it excludes all users who cannot read or understand Russian. That makes the hole poll very distorted.
»There are three kinds of lies: lies, dirty lies and statistics.« :-)
... we need to make our documentation much more obvious and accesible.
+1 The documentation should be much more visible.
Its odd that I have to hunt through Novell site for the actual manuals. Further, though they can be installed from repos... they aren't obvious as to where they went.
Right, again, I fully agree with you. We've started in my team some initiatives to raise the visibility/awareness, but it needs some time to see the effects.
Thanks for taking the time to care about documentation. :-)
On 12/03/2011 10:34 AM, Roger Luedecke wrote:
That we are low in the polls says we need to make our documentation much more obvious and accesible. Its odd that I have to hunt through Novell site for the actual manuals. Further, though they can be installed from repos... they aren't obvious as to where they went.
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
Andreas
Hi,
[...]
Its odd that I have to hunt through Novell site for the actual manuals.
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
Well, at least, if you go to http://software.opensuse.org/ you can see not only the Download Method, but also a link to "Documentation" in the third column.
I don't know where Roger searched for the manuals so I've played with the search field. I've started with http://opensuse.org and entered "documentation". This drove me straight to http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation. Only the term "doc" was not clearly resolved.
Roger, which URL did you use to search for documentation?
I don't remember, it was a long time ago. Frankly, our website is not very noob friendly at all. It needs a major redesign. Just because something is there, doesn't mean its obvious or even known. For that matter, why aren't the manuals and such put in the users account under documents by default? Or maybe a quick DL link in the greeter.
On Monday 05 December 2011 20:25:29 Roger Luedecke wrote:
For that matter, why aren't the manuals and such put in the users account under documents by default?
I like this idea.
On Monday, December 05, 2011 08:25:29 Roger Luedecke wrote:
I don't remember, it was a long time ago. Frankly, our website is not very noob friendly at all. It needs a major redesign. Just because something is there, doesn't mean its obvious or even known. For that matter, why aren't the manuals and such put in the users account under documents by default? Or maybe a quick DL link in the greeter.
Klaas is redesigning the greeter, talk with him (CC'ed).
For the web pages, it's a wiki - and changes are welcome,
Andreas
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 10:36:34 AM Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On Monday, December 05, 2011 08:25:29 Roger Luedecke wrote:
I don't remember, it was a long time ago. Frankly, our website is not very noob friendly at all. It needs a major redesign. Just because something is there, doesn't mean its obvious or even known. For that matter, why aren't the manuals and such put in the users account under documents by default? Or maybe a quick DL link in the greeter.
Klaas is redesigning the greeter, talk with him (CC'ed).
For the web pages, it's a wiki - and changes are welcome,
Andreas
Ah, ok. I had been working on trying to port kaptan from Pardus. Frankly though, that hasn't gone so well since I simply can't seem to figure out how OBS works. I was thinking of trying my hand at making a QML Plasma based greeter.
In regards to the documentation issues, and greeter see the following: https://features.opensuse.org/313048 https://features.opensuse.org/313049 https://features.opensuse.org/312894 https://features.opensuse.org/313050 https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3AShadowolf7%3Akaptan
The wiki is a disaster IMHO. I think we need more automation, to autolink things such as if an article references a technology, the wiki will automatically turn that into a link. Or make a popup for possible matches. For that matter, it may not hurt to make a scriptamajig that will pull articles off Wikipedia to flesh out areas that aren't populated.
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 01:21:15 PM Roger Luedecke wrote:
The wiki is a disaster IMHO. I think we need more automation, to autolink things such as if an article references a technology, the wiki will automatically turn that into a link.
Automatic stuff that will not break more then help is still a matter of not very near future. Problem is that mentioned technology can have name with one or more words, plus all possible shortcuts that humans tend to introduce.
It would be good if authors would add links, but for that links must be guessable, which means that you can link article about "wiki editing" just by using [[wiki editing]]. Any deviation of guessable titles leads to lack of links, and difficulties to find related articles.
Hi AJ,
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.com wrote:
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Thanks.
Best regards,
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andi Sugandi andisugandi@gmail.com wrote:
Hi AJ,
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.com wrote:
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Filing a bug report under infrastrcutrure is the fastest way imo.
Thanks.
Best regards,
Andi Sugandi.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi,
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Manu Gupta manugupt1@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andi Sugandi andisugandi@gmail.com wrote:
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Filing a bug report under infrastrcutrure is the fastest way imo.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=737505
Please correct me if I filled it in wrong way.
Thanks.
Best regards,
On Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:57:34 AM Andi Sugandi wrote:
Hi AJ,
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.com wrote:
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Thanks.
Best regards,
Andi Sugandi.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
I could never find them on our own domain. I got them from Novell, assuming that was where they were kept. Which I always thought was a bit backwards. We have too many sub-domains and not enough clarity in what they contain and how to reach them from the front page. We should add a nice navigation bar to the front page, with emphasis on usability for the new-user/consumer.
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Roger Luedecke roger.luedecke@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:57:34 AM Andi Sugandi wrote:
Hi AJ,
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.com wrote:
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Thanks.
Best regards,
Andi Sugandi.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
I could never find them on our own domain. I got them from Novell, assuming that was where they were kept. Which I always thought was a bit backwards. We have too many sub-domains and not enough clarity in what they contain and how to reach them from the front page. We should add a nice navigation bar to the front page, with emphasis on usability for the new-user/consumer.
Top Bar->Support->Documentation The top navigation bar is a global menu
-- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Riverside, California
***Looking for C++ Mentor***
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:01:23 +0530 Manu Gupta wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Roger Luedecke roger.luedecke@gmail.com wrote:
I could never find them on our own domain. I got them from Novell, assuming that was where they were kept. Which I always thought was a bit backwards. We have too many sub-domains and not enough clarity in what they contain and how to reach them from the front page. We should add a nice navigation bar to the front page, with emphasis on usability for the new-user/consumer.
Top Bar->Support->Documentation The top navigation bar is a global menu
I have updated doc.opensuse.org, so now the manuals can be downloaded/viewed in various formats. I have also updated http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Official_documentation
http://www.suse.com/documentation is work in progress.
Let me know if there are other pages/sites that need updating.
On 19.12.2011 16:10, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
I have updated doc.opensuse.org, so now the manuals can be downloaded/viewed in various formats. I have also updated
Thanks a lot!
--kdl
Hi,
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Frank Sundermeyer fs@suse.de wrote:
I have updated doc.opensuse.org, so now the manuals can be downloaded/viewed in various formats. I have also updated http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Official_documentation
Thanks, this is great news.
How did actually you do to convert the docbook to PDF format (in case someone wants to translate them to other languages)?
And is it allowed to translate these documents to other languages?
Best regards,
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:33:55 +0700 Andi Sugandi wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Frank Sundermeyer fs@suse.de wrote:
I have updated doc.opensuse.org, so now the manuals can be downloaded/viewed in various formats. I have also updated http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Official_documentation
Thanks, this is great news.
How did actually you do to convert the docbook to PDF format (in case someone wants to translate them to other languages)?
we are using a tool called daps (DocBook Authoring and Publishing Suite, formerly known as susedoc) that the SUSE doc team maintains and develops. daps is currently available in the BuildService from the Documentation:Tools project. An official 12.1 package is on the way and we will soon (hopefully in January) publish the project on SourceForge.
And is it allowed to translate these documents to other languages?
Sure it is ;-). While German translation is done by SUSE, the community provides translations to Dutch, French, Hungarian, Japanese, Brasilian Poprtuguese and Russian. We provide SVN access, tools and technical support for translators.
We have a mailinglist opensuse-doc and an IRC channel on freenode (#opensuse-doc) where you can learn more about translations and daps. You are welcome to join us.
Le 20/12/2011 08:24, Frank Sundermeyer a écrit :
we are using a tool called daps (DocBook Authoring and Publishing Suite, formerly known as susedoc) that the SUSE doc team maintains and develops. daps is currently available in the BuildService from the Documentation:Tools project. An official 12.1 package is on the way and we will soon (hopefully in January) publish the project on SourceForge.
is this tool usable for general docbook use (through changing DTD) or strictly suse oriented (I'm in search of such tool for the Linux Documentation Project)
thanks jdd
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Frank Sundermeyer fs@suse.de wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:33:55 +0700 Andi Sugandi wrote:
[..]
How did actually you do to convert the docbook to PDF format (in case someone wants to translate them to other languages)?
we are using a tool called daps (DocBook Authoring and Publishing Suite, formerly known as susedoc) that the SUSE doc team maintains and develops. daps is currently available in the BuildService from the Documentation:Tools project. An official 12.1 package is on the way and we will soon (hopefully in January) publish the project on SourceForge.
I think susedoc package is already available in official 12.1 oss repository: http://paste.opensuse.org/86757157
[OOT] But I wonder why susedoc should require Inkscape to be installed? http://paste.opensuse.org/44708850
Fill new bug for it?
And is it allowed to translate these documents to other languages?
Sure it is ;-). While German translation is done by SUSE, the community provides translations to Dutch, French, Hungarian, Japanese, Brasilian Poprtuguese and Russian. We provide SVN access, tools and technical support for translators.
We have a mailinglist opensuse-doc and an IRC channel on freenode (#opensuse-doc) where you can learn more about translations and daps. You are welcome to join us.
Hopefully I'll start working on it before the end of this month.. =)
Best regards,
Hi,
[...]
I think susedoc package is already available in official 12.1 oss repository: http://paste.opensuse.org/86757157
It's still there, yes, but it will vanish in 12.2. We hadn't had the time to release and replace it with daps yet.
[OOT] But I wonder why susedoc should require Inkscape to be installed? http://paste.opensuse.org/44708850
We need Inkscape to generate PNG from SVG.
Fill new bug for it?
Thanks for the offer, but it's not a bug, it's a feature. :))
Hopefully I'll start working on it before the end of this month.. =)
If you have further question, you can also discuss these things on our opensuse-doc mailinglist. :-)
-
Andi Sugandi -
Andreas Jaeger -
Frank Sundermeyer -
Ilya Chernykh -
jdd -
Kim Leyendecker -
Manu Gupta -
Rajko M. -
Roger Luedecke -
Thomas Schraitle