[opensuse-marketing] Does SUSE have good documentation?
This is a poll about documentation of which distro is complete and intelligible: http://translate.google.ru/translate?hl=ru&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=ru... It seems SUSE and openSUSE anre outsiders... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi,
This is a poll about documentation of which distro is complete and intelligible:
http://translate.google.ru/translate?hl=ru&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=ru...
It seems SUSE and openSUSE anre outsiders...
Interesting, but I don't think this is reliable. There are so many factors that can influence the result that I doubt such polls have any value. (By the way, my opinion would be the same, if openSUSE would be the "winner".) For example, the poll doesn't answer *why* the documentation of Arch Linux is considered better than Gentoo, Debian, etc. A total vote of 1160 is not statistically relevant either... So, relax, take a deep breath and move further. :-) -- Gruß/Regards, Thomas Schraitle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH (o< Maxfeldstrasse 5 /\ Documentation Specialist 90409 Nuernberg, Germany __v http://www.suse.com http://lizards.opensuse.org/author/thomas-schraitle/ SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
That we are low in the polls says we need to make our documentation much more obvious and accesible. Its odd that I have to hunt through Novell site for the actual manuals. Further, though they can be installed from repos... they aren't obvious as to where they went. -- "If the King's English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!" -- "Ma" Ferguson, Governor of Texas (circa 1920) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Roger, Am Samstag, 3. Dezember 2011, 01:34:52 schrieb Roger Luedecke:
That we are low in the polls says ...
Sorry, but I disagree. I don't think this poll has any relevance. It can be a lot of reasons why we are "low". One reason is that it is a Russian site so we can assume it is geographical focused on Russia. That means, it excludes all users who cannot read or understand Russian. That makes the hole poll very distorted. »There are three kinds of lies: lies, dirty lies and statistics.« :-)
... we need to make our documentation much more obvious and accesible.
+1 The documentation should be much more visible.
Its odd that I have to hunt through Novell site for the actual manuals. Further, though they can be installed from repos... they aren't obvious as to where they went.
Right, again, I fully agree with you. We've started in my team some initiatives to raise the visibility/awareness, but it needs some time to see the effects. Thanks for taking the time to care about documentation. :-) -- Gruß/Regards, Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH (o< Maxfeldstrasse 5 /\ Documentation Specialist 90409 Nuernberg, Germany __v http://www.suse.com SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/03/2011 10:34 AM, Roger Luedecke wrote:
That we are low in the polls says we need to make our documentation much more obvious and accesible. Its odd that I have to hunt through Novell site for the actual manuals. Further, though they can be installed from repos... they aren't obvious as to where they went.
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-( Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi,
[...]
Its odd that I have to hunt through Novell site for the actual manuals.
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
Well, at least, if you go to http://software.opensuse.org/ you can see not only the Download Method, but also a link to "Documentation" in the third column. I don't know where Roger searched for the manuals so I've played with the search field. I've started with http://opensuse.org and entered "documentation". This drove me straight to http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation. Only the term "doc" was not clearly resolved. Roger, which URL did you use to search for documentation? -- Gruß/Regards, Thomas Schraitle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH (o< Maxfeldstrasse 5 /\ Documentation Specialist 90409 Nuernberg, Germany __v http://www.suse.com http://lizards.opensuse.org/author/thomas-schraitle/ SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
I don't remember, it was a long time ago. Frankly, our website is not very noob friendly at all. It needs a major redesign. Just because something is there, doesn't mean its obvious or even known. For that matter, why aren't the manuals and such put in the users account under documents by default? Or maybe a quick DL link in the greeter. -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Riverside, California ***Looking for C++ Mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 05 December 2011 20:25:29 Roger Luedecke wrote:
For that matter, why aren't the manuals and such put in the users account under documents by default?
I like this idea. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, December 05, 2011 08:25:29 Roger Luedecke wrote:
I don't remember, it was a long time ago. Frankly, our website is not very noob friendly at all. It needs a major redesign. Just because something is there, doesn't mean its obvious or even known. For that matter, why aren't the manuals and such put in the users account under documents by default? Or maybe a quick DL link in the greeter.
Klaas is redesigning the greeter, talk with him (CC'ed). For the web pages, it's a wiki - and changes are welcome, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, December 05, 2011 08:25:29 Roger Luedecke wrote:
I don't remember, it was a long time ago. Frankly, our website is not very noob friendly at all. It needs a major redesign. Just because something is there, doesn't mean its obvious or even known. For that matter, why aren't the manuals and such put in the users account under documents by default? Or maybe a quick DL link in the greeter.
Klaas is redesigning the greeter, talk with him (CC'ed).
For the web pages, it's a wiki - and changes are welcome,
Andreas Ah, ok. I had been working on trying to port kaptan from Pardus. Frankly
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 10:36:34 AM Andreas Jaeger wrote: though, that hasn't gone so well since I simply can't seem to figure out how OBS works. I was thinking of trying my hand at making a QML Plasma based greeter. In regards to the documentation issues, and greeter see the following: https://features.opensuse.org/313048 https://features.opensuse.org/313049 https://features.opensuse.org/312894 https://features.opensuse.org/313050 https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3AShadowolf7%3Akaptan The wiki is a disaster IMHO. I think we need more automation, to autolink things such as if an article references a technology, the wiki will automatically turn that into a link. Or make a popup for possible matches. For that matter, it may not hurt to make a scriptamajig that will pull articles off Wikipedia to flesh out areas that aren't populated. -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Ind. Repairs and Consulting **Looking for a C++ etc. mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 01:21:15 PM Roger Luedecke wrote:
The wiki is a disaster IMHO. I think we need more automation, to autolink things such as if an article references a technology, the wiki will automatically turn that into a link.
Automatic stuff that will not break more then help is still a matter of not very near future. Problem is that mentioned technology can have name with one or more words, plus all possible shortcuts that humans tend to introduce. It would be good if authors would add links, but for that links must be guessable, which means that you can link article about "wiki editing" just by using [[wiki editing]]. Any deviation of guessable titles leads to lack of links, and difficulties to find related articles. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi AJ, On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.com> wrote:
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
How about on Novell Page? http://www.novell.com/documentation/ openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?) It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online. Thanks. Best regards, -- Andi Sugandi. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andi Sugandi <andisugandi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi AJ,
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.com> wrote:
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Filing a bug report under infrastrcutrure is the fastest way imo.
Thanks.
Best regards,
Andi Sugandi.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Manu Gupta <manugupt1@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andi Sugandi <andisugandi@gmail.com> wrote:
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Filing a bug report under infrastrcutrure is the fastest way imo.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=737505 Please correct me if I filled it in wrong way. Thanks. Best regards, -- Andi Sugandi. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi AJ,
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.com> wrote:
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Thanks.
Best regards,
Andi Sugandi.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org I could never find them on our own domain. I got them from Novell, assuming
On Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:57:34 AM Andi Sugandi wrote: that was where they were kept. Which I always thought was a bit backwards. We have too many sub-domains and not enough clarity in what they contain and how to reach them from the front page. We should add a nice navigation bar to the front page, with emphasis on usability for the new-user/consumer. -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Riverside, California ***Looking for C++ Mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi AJ,
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.com> wrote:
http://doc.opensuse.org gives the current manuals. Seems this is not well-known yet ;-(
How about on Novell Page?
http://www.novell.com/documentation/
openSUSE 12.1 Docs does not have its PDFs version there yet(?)
It is good if user can have the documentations in printed version than the online.
Thanks.
Best regards,
Andi Sugandi.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org I could never find them on our own domain. I got them from Novell, assuming
On Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:57:34 AM Andi Sugandi wrote: that was where they were kept. Which I always thought was a bit backwards. We have too many sub-domains and not enough clarity in what they contain and how to reach them from the front page. We should add a nice navigation bar to the front page, with emphasis on usability for the new-user/consumer.
Top Bar->Support->Documentation The top navigation bar is a global menu
-- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Riverside, California ***Looking for C++ Mentor***
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-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:01:23 +0530 Manu Gupta wrote: Hi,
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> wrote:
I could never find them on our own domain. I got them from Novell, assuming that was where they were kept. Which I always thought was a bit backwards. We have too many sub-domains and not enough clarity in what they contain and how to reach them from the front page. We should add a nice navigation bar to the front page, with emphasis on usability for the new-user/consumer.
Top Bar->Support->Documentation The top navigation bar is a global menu
I have updated doc.opensuse.org, so now the manuals can be downloaded/viewed in various formats. I have also updated http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Official_documentation http://www.suse.com/documentation is work in progress. Let me know if there are other pages/sites that need updating. -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, Technical Writer, Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.opensuse.org/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On 19.12.2011 16:10, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
I have updated doc.opensuse.org, so now the manuals can be downloaded/viewed in various formats. I have also updated
Thanks a lot! --kdl -- kind regards, -o) German Wiki Team Kim Leyendecker /\ Documentation& marketing www.opensuse.org __v leyendecker@opensuse.org ===================================================== my GPG Key: 664265369547B825 | IRC: k-d-l Twitter: kim_d_ley | Wiki-Username: openLHAG openSUSE - Linux for open minds - get it free today! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Frank Sundermeyer <fs@suse.de> wrote:
I have updated doc.opensuse.org, so now the manuals can be downloaded/viewed in various formats. I have also updated http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Official_documentation
Thanks, this is great news. How did actually you do to convert the docbook to PDF format (in case someone wants to translate them to other languages)? And is it allowed to translate these documents to other languages? Best regards, -- Andi Sugandi. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:33:55 +0700 Andi Sugandi wrote: Hi,
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Frank Sundermeyer <fs@suse.de> wrote:
I have updated doc.opensuse.org, so now the manuals can be downloaded/viewed in various formats. I have also updated http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Official_documentation
Thanks, this is great news.
How did actually you do to convert the docbook to PDF format (in case someone wants to translate them to other languages)?
we are using a tool called daps (DocBook Authoring and Publishing Suite, formerly known as susedoc) that the SUSE doc team maintains and develops. daps is currently available in the BuildService from the Documentation:Tools project. An official 12.1 package is on the way and we will soon (hopefully in January) publish the project on SourceForge.
And is it allowed to translate these documents to other languages?
Sure it is ;-). While German translation is done by SUSE, the community provides translations to Dutch, French, Hungarian, Japanese, Brasilian Poprtuguese and Russian. We provide SVN access, tools and technical support for translators. We have a mailinglist opensuse-doc and an IRC channel on freenode (#opensuse-doc) where you can learn more about translations and daps. You are welcome to join us. -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, Technical Writer, Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.opensuse.org/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Le 20/12/2011 08:24, Frank Sundermeyer a écrit :
we are using a tool called daps (DocBook Authoring and Publishing Suite, formerly known as susedoc) that the SUSE doc team maintains and develops. daps is currently available in the BuildService from the Documentation:Tools project. An official 12.1 package is on the way and we will soon (hopefully in January) publish the project on SourceForge.
is this tool usable for general docbook use (through changing DTD) or strictly suse oriented (I'm in search of such tool for the Linux Documentation Project) thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Frank Sundermeyer <fs@suse.de> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:33:55 +0700 Andi Sugandi wrote:
[..]
How did actually you do to convert the docbook to PDF format (in case someone wants to translate them to other languages)?
we are using a tool called daps (DocBook Authoring and Publishing Suite, formerly known as susedoc) that the SUSE doc team maintains and develops. daps is currently available in the BuildService from the Documentation:Tools project. An official 12.1 package is on the way and we will soon (hopefully in January) publish the project on SourceForge.
I think susedoc package is already available in official 12.1 oss repository: http://paste.opensuse.org/86757157 [OOT] But I wonder why susedoc should require Inkscape to be installed? http://paste.opensuse.org/44708850 Fill new bug for it?
And is it allowed to translate these documents to other languages?
Sure it is ;-). While German translation is done by SUSE, the community provides translations to Dutch, French, Hungarian, Japanese, Brasilian Poprtuguese and Russian. We provide SVN access, tools and technical support for translators.
We have a mailinglist opensuse-doc and an IRC channel on freenode (#opensuse-doc) where you can learn more about translations and daps. You are welcome to join us.
Hopefully I'll start working on it before the end of this month.. =) Best regards, -- Andi Sugandi. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
Hi,
[...]
I think susedoc package is already available in official 12.1 oss repository: http://paste.opensuse.org/86757157
It's still there, yes, but it will vanish in 12.2. We hadn't had the time to release and replace it with daps yet.
[OOT] But I wonder why susedoc should require Inkscape to be installed? http://paste.opensuse.org/44708850
We need Inkscape to generate PNG from SVG.
Fill new bug for it?
Thanks for the offer, but it's not a bug, it's a feature. :))
Hopefully I'll start working on it before the end of this month.. =)
If you have further question, you can also discuss these things on our opensuse-doc mailinglist. :-) -- Gruß/Regards, Thomas Schraitle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH (o< Maxfeldstrasse 5 /\ Documentation Specialist 90409 Nuernberg, Germany __v http://www.suse.com http://lizards.opensuse.org/author/thomas-schraitle/ SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Andi Sugandi -
Andreas Jaeger -
Frank Sundermeyer -
Ilya Chernykh -
jdd -
Kim Leyendecker -
Manu Gupta -
Rajko M. -
Roger Luedecke -
Thomas Schraitle