[opensuse-marketing] common language
I just want to share an idea. I just heard (on the radio) a comment from a french consumer association about computers. Speaking about laptop, the speaker did not use the word "laptop" but "thouse computers sold with screen and keyboard included" (I try to translate from french). I knew openSUSE is not devoted to complete newbies, however... I wonder is we should not rethink completely part of our messages to fit people that uses webphones and mp3 readers, but do considere computer exactly like cars... not knowing any technical langage. If a people don't know what a laptop is, she may not understand at all what is a windows manager or a live cd... May be we should speak of "internet access cd, openSUSE version" or "Word processing openSUSE version", I don't really know :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
στις 31/12/2010 10:18 πμ, O/H jdd έγραψε:
I just want to share an idea.
I just heard (on the radio) a comment from a french consumer association about computers.
Speaking about laptop, the speaker did not use the word "laptop" but "thouse computers sold with screen and keyboard included" (I try to translate from french).
I knew openSUSE is not devoted to complete newbies, however... I wonder is we should not rethink completely part of our messages to fit people that uses webphones and mp3 readers, but do considere computer exactly like cars... not knowing any technical langage.
If a people don't know what a laptop is, she may not understand at all what is a windows manager or a live cd...
May be we should speak of "internet access cd, openSUSE version" or "Word processing openSUSE version", I don't really know :-)
jdd
I agree with jdd. Most users are windows based. Recently I installed to a friend of mine openSUSE. She asked me to make presentations about simple things such as files>folders etc. I know that there are wiki with the subject migration from windows to openSUSE. It's somethin we must focus more. Stathis (diamond_gr) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 31/12/2010 09:24, Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr) a écrit :
Most users are windows based.
many winbdows users don't even know they use windows, nor than Word is not free my sister that uses mails don't know what is an "application" (she don't use any webphone :-) - notice she is 78, not 18 :-) my wife keep asking "go and show me my friend on the net" and give me a xxx@yyyy.zz. I have to say "this is a mail, not an Internet web site adress". We could probably have success with a live cd opening Firefox as default, not kde nor gnome (I know it's possible, I did once) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Στις 31/12/2010 10:30 πμ, ο/η jdd έγραψε:
Le 31/12/2010 09:24, Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr) a écrit :
Most users are windows based. many winbdows users don't even know they use windows, nor than Word is not free
my sister that uses mails don't know what is an "application" (she don't use any webphone :-) - notice she is 78, not 18 :-)
This is not a problem that any GNU/Linux distribution should care about to fix. This is an education problem. If someone doesn't know how to use a computer or the software of that computer then someone should explain to him what it is and how it works. In the case of Free Software what we - the advocates of free software - *should* do is not to create an alternative to proprietary software "beautiful working doll" but to also explain to people: what is hardware, what is software and what is free software. Why is important about their freedom to use free software and why is dangerous for their freedom to ignore the difference between free and proprietary software. It will not take more than some hours to have a conversation with somebody and explain these things, and it will save much more time than creating more and more "software dolls".
my wife keep asking "go and show me my friend on the net" and give me a xxx@yyyy.zz. I have to say "this is a mail, not an Internet web site adress".
Now, with Diaspora there will be many misunderstandings, though. They give you a "handle" in the form of: user@joindiaspora.com which as they write: "This is not actually an email address yet, but one day maybe it will. For now, you should log on to your diaspora account and try and search for your friend using the address they gave you". This thing indeed changes the common computer language around the planet. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 31/12/2010 10:01, Kostas Boukouvalas a écrit :
my sister that uses mails don't know what is an "application" (she don't use any webphone :-) - notice she is 78, not 18 :-)
This is not a problem that any GNU/Linux distribution should care about to fix. This is an education problem.
aren't w also in the educational bussiness? Whyt should anybody care of hardware related problems? When one buy a pre-installed computer there is nothing to care about. I know openSUSE is mainly devoted to power user, and I don't see how we could do otherwise :-), but we have probably to adapt our language to the day of today. A power user may once become a geek, but is definitively not at the beginning. The model may be a webphone. anybody is said to be able to use it, even if it's not true :-(. Android is a good version of what can be done. (webphone vocabulary is prone to be widely accepted) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 12/31/2010 11:09 AM, jdd wrote:
Le 31/12/2010 10:01, Kostas Boukouvalas a écrit :
my sister that uses mails don't know what is an "application" (she don't use any webphone :-) - notice she is 78, not 18 :-)
This is not a problem that any GNU/Linux distribution should care about to fix. This is an education problem.
aren't w also in the educational bussiness? Whyt should anybody care of hardware related problems?
When one buy a pre-installed computer there is nothing to care about.
I know openSUSE is mainly devoted to power user, and I don't see how we could do otherwise :-), but we have probably to adapt our language to the day of today.
A power user may once become a geek, but is definitively not at the beginning.
The model may be a webphone. anybody is said to be able to use it, even if it's not true :-(. Android is a good version of what can be done. (webphone vocabulary is prone to be widely accepted)
jdd
I don't totally agree, about education "enforced" What you want to realize is kind of : Hey guys I buy a new car, sit in it, and why this damn f**cked device did drive me to the destination I've in mind ? Well, one day it could happen, but I really hope that day we don't use anymore cars :-) Do a simple test, take a new digital television, with sat,cables, and internet access, and give it to someone that just have a plain old analogic tv. Sure that person will not see any show before a certain amount of hours of works and reading. In that case, you ask/paid someone who know to setup that stuff. Why should it be different with IT things ( computer, tablets, phones etc ?) One day this kind of people will remember IT pro exist and bring "great and valued of" work to make IT things working, perfectly adapted to their need. Let these pro people earning their money, and payback us with contributions. Happy new year to All. -- Bruno Friedmann (irc:tigerfoot) Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member User www.ioda.net/r/osu Blog www.ioda.net/r/blog fsfe fellowship www.fsfe.org GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 vcard : http://it.ioda-net.ch/ioda-net.vcf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
I think there's some value in consistent language, and it is a little confusing when you switch distros and find that a simple terminal is in a different location (system tools instead of accessories) or has a different name (terminal, LXterminal). I don't think the new user is our target audience. Sure we may attract some, and openSUSE is certainly user friendly enough to be manageable for many, but the things that make a distribution a 'no brainer' for new users aren't always helpful for more experienced users. That's a different discussion of course.... Sometimes a 'simpler' language can be irritating and even vague - there's no doubt about what 'laptop' means (we can always google it) but 'a computer with screen and keyboard included' could maybe mean one of those all-in-ones with a keyboard included in the package, like an iMac. The important thing is to be consistent and clear. When talking to a specific audience, add explanations when appropriate. Now it's time for me to consume some fermented apple juice and watch pyrotechnic displays in observation of the commencement of a new solar cycle on the Gregorian calendar. :) Happy New Year everyone :) Helen
A power user may once become a geek, but is definitively not at the beginning.
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Le 31/12/2010 13:33, Helen a écrit :
Sometimes a 'simpler' language can be irritating and even vague - there's no doubt about what 'laptop' means (we can always google it) but 'a computer with screen and keyboard included' could maybe mean one of those all-in-ones with a keyboard included in the package, like an iMac.
The important thing is to be consistent and clear. When talking to a specific audience, add explanations when appropriate.
yes but we don't make the consistence for we are only a small niche. I don't say we have to change all our vocabulary, of course the total newbie is not our target, but may be we can gain having *some* doc using a different langage. let alone having a firefox only live cd, or openoffice only one. I use this some (quite a lot) years ago for school use. A computer one use. Could be an entry point for us jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 31 December 2010 13:39:20 jdd wrote:
Le 31/12/2010 13:33, Helen a écrit :
Sometimes a 'simpler' language can be irritating and even vague - there's no doubt about what 'laptop' means (we can always google it) but 'a computer with screen and keyboard included' could maybe mean one of those all-in-ones with a keyboard included in the package, like an iMac.
The important thing is to be consistent and clear. When talking to a specific audience, add explanations when appropriate.
yes but we don't make the consistence for we are only a small niche. I don't say we have to change all our vocabulary, of course the total newbie is not our target, but may be we can gain having *some* doc using a different langage.
let alone having a firefox only live cd, or openoffice only one. I use this some (quite a lot) years ago for school use. A computer one use. Could be an entry point for us
jdd
I think the kind of user that refers to a laptop as a "computer that comes with screen and keyboard" probably wouldn't be able to use openSUSE unless he/she is willing to learn a lot and/or assisted by a more experienced user. Usually people like that don't even MAKE computer choices themselves, they have someone more knowledgable do that for them. I think we should target the decision makers: the 'nerd in the family' type of people. And this is consistent with the strategy as it was last time it was discussed - focus openSUSE on the more technology-adept (or interested) user. That doesn't mean we have to make things more complicated than needed, but really, how many people at the typical conference we go to need us to explain what an operating system is? Adjusting our marketing materials to complete newbies will make it less usueful for the people who actually use openSUSE right now or are likely use it. Of course we could create a special set of folders, leaflets etc for 'newbies', which we can give away at certain events. However I'd rather first have the 'normal' folders which we don't even have yet. You can find one targeting potential contributors here: http://piratepad.net/xKoBE4vmSM And one targeting potential users here: http://piratepad.net/d8xWTUwHq3 Feel free to add and improve there - we need to get those finished at some point so we can print a bunch. Cheers, Jos
Στις 31/12/2010 02:39 μμ, ο/η jdd έγραψε:
using a different langage.
Now, I understand more clearly the topic of the discussion. Have a look at http://www.fsf.org/resources/what-is-fs and http://www.fsfe.org/about/printable/printable.en.html Good work have been achieved the past years on coming closer to the plebs. (Excuse me. Yes I know the negative meaning of the word plebs. I just want to point out clearly the target audience). The above material could be characterised as "Free Software for dummies". If you mean to create such material for openSUSE, I'm strong for it and I could help translate this material in Greek. This in fact is the reason that in Ubuntu GNU/Linux distribution of which I'm also a member, the Ubuntu Manual has been created. Nothing to do with the classic SuSE Manual fat 400-pages paperback, just a comprehensive guide for the first steps in the distribution. This would be good. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 31/12/2010 15:52, Kostas Boukouvalas a écrit :
Now, I understand more clearly the topic of the discussion.
we even should have to define "software". I want to be clear. We don't have to do so with avery bit of text we have on the wiki, of course. We only have to provide: * *at least one* page with very low level info regarding openSUSE (including seek for help or we are not for you :-(). On the main page of my LUG (http://www.culte.org/) I have a big title "Je n'y comprends rien" (I don't understand a bit") aimed to such people. We have at least to be friendly to such people. If they wonder to read our doc, may be once they may become members :-)) * if it's easy (it looks like), have some openSUSE version usable for them. Not that should be shown as a big progress, all the contrary, but a way to say: if you can"t cope with the regular ope,nSUSE, may be this one can be usefull. For example, have a live cd with "xinit firefox -- :1 &" as only available starting choice. Many people will think it's enough :-)) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 31 December 2010 19:20:54 jdd wrote:
Le 31/12/2010 15:52, Kostas Boukouvalas a écrit :
Now, I understand more clearly the topic of the discussion.
we even should have to define "software".
I want to be clear. We don't have to do so with avery bit of text we have on the wiki, of course. We only have to provide:
* *at least one* page with very low level info regarding openSUSE (including seek for help or we are not for you :-(). On the main page of my LUG (http://www.culte.org/) I have a big title "Je n'y comprends rien" (I don't understand a bit") aimed to such people. We have at least to be friendly to such people. If they wonder to read our doc, may be once they may become members :-))
Yes, having something like that surely makes sense. A page explaining software, operating systems, Free Software, linux, openSUSE... Probably can be largely copy-pasted (with attribution) from wikipedia. In the interest of "DO, not TALK" I created an Etherpad page to write a "I am new to Linux" page on the openSUSE homepage. I have created a skeleton and copy-pasted info from wikipedia and the FSF page. Someone needs to check if we can copy-paste from the FSF site ;-) http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD And help is welcome!
* if it's easy (it looks like), have some openSUSE version usable for them. Not that should be shown as a big progress, all the contrary, but a way to say: if you can"t cope with the regular ope,nSUSE, may be this one can be usefull.
For example, have a live cd with "xinit firefox -- :1 &" as only available starting choice. Many people will think it's enough :-))
jdd
Le 03/01/2011 00:58, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
In the interest of "DO, not TALK" I created an Etherpad page to write a "I am new to Linux" page on the openSUSE homepage. I have created a skeleton and copy-pasted info from wikipedia and the FSF page. Someone needs to check if we can copy-paste from the FSF site ;-)
http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
And help is welcome!
I'm pretty disabled here, writing from a notebook, but I beg your explanations are way too technical for this target audience. I'm not that fluent in basic non technical english, so not the better to give examples, but this should be something like: " Hello :-). If you come here, you are at least a bit familiar with internet! So far so good! We will try to exlain what we are and what we do. If you understand what are "programs", "applications", "computers", you will probably find this page too basical and you may read the other parts of hour wiki. If you are not sure all this mean, read ahead. First some vocabulary: "Computers". A computer is the hardware you are using right now to read this text. It have mostly a screen (you see this on the screen), a keyboard (you see AZERTY or QWERTY on it) and a mouse (the strange little box you have the hand on right now :-). "Applications" A computer is a hardware unable to do anything by itself. A computer is as dumb as a car without gaz. An "application", also called "a program, a "software" is what gives life to the computer. To go to Internet and read this page, you are using a "web browser". Most applications have a nickname, often a basic name like "Windows", "Word", "Firefox" or "Thunderbird" "Operating System" An operating system is a special application. that allow the computer to switch on and give some sight of activity. Most of the time a computer is sold with an operating system. You can see on the market mostly three king of operating system: Windows (the most common), Apple MacOS (On Apple computers) and Linux on computer of any brand, usually owned by computer addicts. openSUSE is a Linux variant. Is openSUSE for you? openSUSE is very easy to use as soon as it's installed on your computer. However, if you are reading this with interest, you may not be able to install it yourself. This don't mean you can't use openSUSE, because, how wonderfull it is! you can use openSUSE without installing it on your computer!! Ask for help If you are reading this, may be it's a proof you already know how to browse the web or some friend of yours send you a link to us. This friend may be able to help you, or you may be curious enough to do the tedious job of learning to do this yourself. You may also have nearby a "Linux User Group" that can help you. See in your neiborhood. If you are already lost in the explanations, may be use sometime the web and comeback later when you got a bit more experience. Uses demo support You can try openSUSE very easily if you can get your hand on a "demo live dvd". We have "Ambassadors" that spread the world with such demo dvd, here is the list (URL?). But if you know how to download a dvd and burn it to the medium, you can make one yourself " to be continued (by someone else :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
"Computers".
A computer is the hardware you are using right now to read this text. It have mostly a screen (you see this on the screen), a keyboard (you see AZERTY or QWERTY on it) and a mouse (the strange little box you have the hand on right now :-).
LOL... for a second there I thought you were dead serious On the upside, anyone who needed this level of explanation probably wouldn't find their way onto IRC to harass the support crew. I wrote some stuff based on wiki quotes and toned it down quite a lot - probably too much IMHO - remembering we aren't aiming at noobies. openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer illiterate, but they aren't our target market. cheers Helen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 03/01/2011 11:51, Helen a écrit :
openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer illiterate, but they aren't our target market.
thats perfectly true, but we can say this to them gently :-). Who knows what they will become the some next years :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 03 January 2011 12:04:18 jdd wrote:
Le 03/01/2011 11:51, Helen a écrit :
openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer illiterate, but they aren't our target market.
thats perfectly true, but we can say this to them gently :-). Who knows what they will become the some next years :-)
Sure but we can fix that later on... Writing for complete and utter computer newbies doesn't seem like a very useful thing to me. Sure, there are quite a few of them, but I doubt they would end up on the openSUSE page. And if they did, I doubt they can decide what operating system they use - such newbies either use a computer at work or school or a place like that or have a more knowledgable friend who takes care of their computer.
jdd
On Monday 03 January 2011 14:18:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 12:04:18 jdd wrote:
Le 03/01/2011 11:51, Helen a écrit :
openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer illiterate, but they aren't our target market.
thats perfectly true, but we can say this to them gently :-). Who knows what they will become the some next years :-)
Sure but we can fix that later on... Writing for complete and utter computer newbies doesn't seem like a very useful thing to me. Sure, there are quite a few of them, but I doubt they would end up on the openSUSE page. And if they did, I doubt they can decide what operating system they use - such newbies either use a computer at work or school or a place like that or have a more knowledgable friend who takes care of their computer.
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD points to Helen for most of the writing. This could be a page available on our homepage. Manu, as you're working on that, could you find a spot for this?
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 12:45 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 14:18:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 12:04:18 jdd wrote:
Le 03/01/2011 11:51, Helen a écrit :
openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer illiterate, but they aren't our target market.
thats perfectly true, but we can say this to them gently :-). Who knows what they will become the some next years :-)
Sure but we can fix that later on... Writing for complete and utter computer newbies doesn't seem like a very useful thing to me. Sure, there are quite a few of them, but I doubt they would end up on the openSUSE page. And if they did, I doubt they can decide what operating system they use - such newbies either use a computer at work or school or a place like that or have a more knowledgable friend who takes care of their computer.
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
points to Helen for most of the writing. This could be a page available on our homepage. Manu, as you're working on that, could you find a spot for this?
Sure -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
I just read the whole etherpad and I find it complete, I added the four Freedoms and I really cannot find anything else I could add so that we'll keep it simple. Take a look on it but my opinion is that this task is over. I really liked the whole idea and if we make it a Flier I will definitely will translated at Greek. Kostas 2011/1/5 Manu Gupta <manugupt1@gmail.com>:
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 12:45 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 14:18:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 12:04:18 jdd wrote:
Le 03/01/2011 11:51, Helen a écrit :
openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer illiterate, but they aren't our target market.
thats perfectly true, but we can say this to them gently :-). Who knows what they will become the some next years :-)
Sure but we can fix that later on... Writing for complete and utter computer newbies doesn't seem like a very useful thing to me. Sure, there are quite a few of them, but I doubt they would end up on the openSUSE page. And if they did, I doubt they can decide what operating system they use - such newbies either use a computer at work or school or a place like that or have a more knowledgable friend who takes care of their computer.
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
points to Helen for most of the writing. This could be a page available on our homepage. Manu, as you're working on that, could you find a spot for this?
Sure
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I'm just taking a look now to fix up some of the English. A few edits have introduced 'too much information' which I'm toning down a little bit. I'll try to make it as polished as possible and will save the revision when I'm done. One idea - in print, the 'four freedoms' would look nice separately in a highlighted box. cheers Helen On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Kostas Koudaras <warlordfff@gmail.com> wrote:
I just read the whole etherpad and I find it complete, I added the four Freedoms and I really cannot find anything else I could add so that we'll keep it simple. Take a look on it but my opinion is that this task is over. I really liked the whole idea and if we make it a Flier I will definitely will translated at Greek. Kostas
2011/1/5 Manu Gupta <manugupt1@gmail.com>:
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 12:45 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 14:18:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 12:04:18 jdd wrote:
Le 03/01/2011 11:51, Helen a écrit :
openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer illiterate, but they aren't our target market.
thats perfectly true, but we can say this to them gently :-). Who knows what they will become the some next years :-)
Sure but we can fix that later on... Writing for complete and utter computer newbies doesn't seem like a very useful thing to me. Sure, there are quite a few of them, but I doubt they would end up on the openSUSE page. And if they did, I doubt they can decide what operating system they use - such newbies either use a computer at work or school or a place like that or have a more knowledgable friend who takes care of their computer.
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
points to Helen for most of the writing. This could be a page available on our homepage. Manu, as you're working on that, could you find a spot for this?
Sure
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For some reason when I thought of the print idea I said why not try to make a draft on Scribus? So I took the texts as where on etherpad and made a draft,so I made one just to see and tell me if you like the idea,if you do when we finalize it I could try to make it happen,though I must warn you that is the second time ever I open Scribus. Kostas 2011/1/6 Helen <postmodernhousewife@gmail.com>:
I'm just taking a look now to fix up some of the English. A few edits have introduced 'too much information' which I'm toning down a little bit.
I'll try to make it as polished as possible and will save the revision when I'm done.
One idea - in print, the 'four freedoms' would look nice separately in a highlighted box.
cheers
Helen
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Kostas Koudaras <warlordfff@gmail.com> wrote:
I just read the whole etherpad and I find it complete, I added the four Freedoms and I really cannot find anything else I could add so that we'll keep it simple. Take a look on it but my opinion is that this task is over. I really liked the whole idea and if we make it a Flier I will definitely will translated at Greek. Kostas
2011/1/5 Manu Gupta <manugupt1@gmail.com>:
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 12:45 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 14:18:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 12:04:18 jdd wrote:
Le 03/01/2011 11:51, Helen a écrit : > openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer > illiterate, but they aren't our target market.
thats perfectly true, but we can say this to them gently :-). Who knows what they will become the some next years :-)
Sure but we can fix that later on... Writing for complete and utter computer newbies doesn't seem like a very useful thing to me. Sure, there are quite a few of them, but I doubt they would end up on the openSUSE page. And if they did, I doubt they can decide what operating system they use - such newbies either use a computer at work or school or a place like that or have a more knowledgable friend who takes care of their computer.
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
points to Helen for most of the writing. This could be a page available on our homepage. Manu, as you're working on that, could you find a spot for this?
Sure
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Hey this looks great Kostas. Scribus is a fantastic tool, but I did find it difficult to use at first. I used 'view' so online preview I think, so I don't know if I'm seeing it exactly as is. As I'm seeing it, the text is very close - I'd make the borders a little bit bigger (more white at each side) - that allows room for folding too. Can you see if you could put a light colored background image under the text perhaps in one section? In the revised text you note I cut the 'Why Use Free Software' right down to just be the four freedoms, thinking that would look nice in a colored box. You can of course use the previous revision if you wish, just make sure your headline is 'Why Use' not 'Why To Use' and check the grammar carefully. Great idea having flyers ready to print. (hmm.. gosh did we end up with an openSUSE Great Inspired Punch Line? ) Free Your Mind with Free Software Your Computer - Your Way, with Free Software Find Software Freedom with Linux cheers Helen On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Kostas Koudaras <warlordfff@gmail.com> wrote:
For some reason when I thought of the print idea I said why not try to make a draft on Scribus? So I took the texts as where on etherpad and made a draft,so I made one just to see and tell me if you like the idea,if you do when we finalize it I could try to make it happen,though I must warn you that is the second time ever I open Scribus. Kostas
2011/1/6 Helen <postmodernhousewife@gmail.com>:
I'm just taking a look now to fix up some of the English. A few edits have introduced 'too much information' which I'm toning down a little bit.
I'll try to make it as polished as possible and will save the revision when I'm done.
One idea - in print, the 'four freedoms' would look nice separately in a highlighted box.
cheers
Helen
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Kostas Koudaras <warlordfff@gmail.com> wrote:
I just read the whole etherpad and I find it complete, I added the four Freedoms and I really cannot find anything else I could add so that we'll keep it simple. Take a look on it but my opinion is that this task is over. I really liked the whole idea and if we make it a Flier I will definitely will translated at Greek. Kostas
2011/1/5 Manu Gupta <manugupt1@gmail.com>:
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 12:45 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 14:18:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 12:04:18 jdd wrote: > Le 03/01/2011 11:51, Helen a écrit : > > openSUSE might be perfectly useable by people who are computer > > illiterate, but they aren't our target market. > > thats perfectly true, but we can say this to them gently :-). Who > knows what they will become the some next years :-)
Sure but we can fix that later on... Writing for complete and utter computer newbies doesn't seem like a very useful thing to me. Sure, there are quite a few of them, but I doubt they would end up on the openSUSE page. And if they did, I doubt they can decide what operating system they use - such newbies either use a computer at work or school or a place like that or have a more knowledgable friend who takes care of their computer.
> jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
points to Helen for most of the writing. This could be a page available on our homepage. Manu, as you're working on that, could you find a spot for this?
Sure
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Le 06/01/2011 07:58, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
For some reason when I thought of the print idea I said why not try to make a draft on Scribus?
the text is much too long for a flyer, and a flyer can fall in hands of computer illiterate, that needs at least some words to understand it's not for them :-) When writing an online text, one is at least sure somebody read it through a computer :-) - writing this I just notice that some TV are now able to browse the web, but it's not yet so frequent we have to worry :-) Sorry if I don't participate more, but I'm not at home jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 06 January 2011 08:44:45 jdd wrote:
Le 06/01/2011 07:58, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
For some reason when I thought of the print idea I said why not try
to make a draft on Scribus?
the text is much too long for a flyer, and a flyer can fall in hands of computer illiterate, that needs at least some words to understand it's not for them :-)
When writing an online text, one is at least sure somebody read it through a computer :-) - writing this I just notice that some TV are now able to browse the web, but it's not yet so frequent we have to worry :-)
Sorry if I don't participate more, but I'm not at home
jdd
I am afraid JDD is right, this is too much text for a 2-page flyer. It just doesn't work... I do like the idea of a very newbie-friendly flyer but it should be much, much shorter. I am afraid all of linux, operating systems and free software AND openSUSE just doesn't fit on one flyer :D BTW the folders here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Marketing_materials#Folders_and_leaflets aren't finished yet, maybe we can put a bit more effort here - they target the 90% of the people we see at conferences we visit all the time ;-) The text we wrote for newbies is great for our webpage, let's keep it at that for now. How often do you meet people who don't know what an operating system is at a conference?
However there are the regular Free Software Days and things of that nature that aren't computer-geek specific ie, market stalls and University information days. I'll make a cut-down version of text if anyone is keen for a flyer. Helen
The text we wrote for newbies is great for our webpage, let's keep it at that for now. How often do you meet people who don't know what an operating system is at a conference? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
http://ietherpad.com/noMEXbsHA5 Shorter version On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Helen <postmodernhousewife@gmail.com> wrote:
However there are the regular Free Software Days and things of that nature that aren't computer-geek specific ie, market stalls and University information days.
I'll make a cut-down version of text if anyone is keen for a flyer.
Helen
The text we wrote for newbies is great for our webpage, let's keep it at that for now. How often do you meet people who don't know what an operating system is at a conference?
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Ok so in order not to mix things up would you like to end that and start a new conversation about all kind of printed material we need? Jos remember when you told me to start pushing the creation of the two fliers(unsuspected users and potential contributors),then in a meeting you told me to hold on until we finish the strategy, since we started them again I could try give them a form, but all that better in an other conversation,so that we keep it clean. Kostas 2011/1/6 Helen <postmodernhousewife@gmail.com>:
However there are the regular Free Software Days and things of that nature that aren't computer-geek specific ie, market stalls and University information days.
I'll make a cut-down version of text if anyone is keen for a flyer.
Helen
The text we wrote for newbies is great for our webpage, let's keep it at that for now. How often do you meet people who don't know what an operating system is at a conference? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
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Well I've already written the short version, so there's some text there, maybe it's useful maybe not. I'm not going to spend too much time on beginner users, since they are not our target market, though I agree that some background on license, antivirus and so on is a good idea. I don't deal well with endless stragetgy and meetings. Give me a task to do and I get it done if I can. Helen On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Kostas Koudaras <warlordfff@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok so in order not to mix things up would you like to end that and start a new conversation about all kind of printed material we need? Jos remember when you told me to start pushing the creation of the two fliers(unsuspected users and potential contributors),then in a meeting you told me to hold on until we finish the strategy, since we started them again I could try give them a form, but all that better in an other conversation,so that we keep it clean. Kostas
2011/1/6 Helen <postmodernhousewife@gmail.com>:
However there are the regular Free Software Days and things of that nature that aren't computer-geek specific ie, market stalls and University information days.
I'll make a cut-down version of text if anyone is keen for a flyer.
Helen
The text we wrote for newbies is great for our webpage, let's keep it at that for now. How often do you meet people who don't know what an operating system is at a conference? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
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On Thursday 06 January 2011 22:38:17 Helen wrote:
Well I've already written the short version, so there's some text there, maybe it's useful maybe not.
I'm not going to spend too much time on beginner users, since they are not our target market, though I agree that some background on license, antivirus and so on is a good idea.
I don't deal well with endless stragetgy and meetings. Give me a task to do and I get it done if I can.
The two flyers Kostas mentioned can be found in the link I gave: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Marketing_materials#Folders_and_leaflets For the lazy among us, the links are: Generic openSUSE introduction for potential contributors http://piratepad.net/xKoBE4vmSM Generic openSUSE introduction for potential users http://piratepad.net/d8xWTUwHq3 You must've seen them :D
Helen
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Kostas Koudaras <warlordfff@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok so in order not to mix things up would you like to end that and start a new conversation about all kind of printed material we need? Jos remember when you told me to start pushing the creation of the two fliers(unsuspected users and potential contributors),then in a meeting you told me to hold on until we finish the strategy, since we started them again I could try give them a form, but all that better in an other conversation,so that we keep it clean. Kostas
2011/1/6 Helen <postmodernhousewife@gmail.com>:
However there are the regular Free Software Days and things of that nature that aren't computer-geek specific ie, market stalls and University information days.
I'll make a cut-down version of text if anyone is keen for a flyer.
Helen
The text we wrote for newbies is great for our webpage, let's keep it at that for now. How often do you meet people who don't know what an operating system is at a conference?
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On 06/01/2011 11:38 μμ, Helen wrote:
Well I've already written the short version, so there's some text there, maybe it's useful maybe not.
I'm not going to spend too much time on beginner users, since they are not our target market, though I agree that some background on license, antivirus and so on is a good idea.
I don't deal well with endless stragetgy and meetings. Give me a task to do and I get it done if I can.
Helen
I totally disagree with Helen, Beginner users ARE our target market. 1. Microsoft wants beginner users so they have them addicted to their products. I think they're not focus on the server products as much as they care about programs for the mass. Until now their marketing on that is more than 100% success. 2. Beginner user doesn't care if the OS is with a green Start button, blue bar and meadow background. He/she cares to have a PC that will use to be productive (we focus on end user and not web administrator). Also cares weather he/she doesn't have to search for the software and the crack of the software (licences etc). Until now (I heard) that only Apple does that. You open your PC and you work. 3. Advance users, don't need us to make flyers with a nice text on them. They already know what openSUSE is all about and they already decide if openSUSE or any other distro is the best for them. Well, that was one of many reasons I didn't fit with Greek Fedora community. They were searching for contributors and not end users. Until now, Greek openSUSE community joined events based on promotion of openSUSE to beginner users (either on Linux or advanced windows users that use cracked software). Why don't we focus to flyers for schools? The kids are the next generations of computer users and admins. Ubuntu in Greece is based on users. That's why they rule here, although they only joined 2-3 of tech events during the past year (they didn't make release party for 10.04 or 10.10). Anyways, those are some of my thoughts. Stathis -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 January 2011 04:51:06 Efstathios Iosifidis wrote:
On 06/01/2011 11:38 μμ, Helen wrote:
Well I've already written the short version, so there's some text there, maybe it's useful maybe not.
I'm not going to spend too much time on beginner users, since they are not our target market, though I agree that some background on license, antivirus and so on is a good idea.
I don't deal well with endless stragetgy and meetings. Give me a task to do and I get it done if I can.
Helen
I totally disagree with Helen,
Beginner users ARE our target market.
1. Microsoft wants beginner users so they have them addicted to their products. I think they're not focus on the server products as much as they care about programs for the mass. Until now their marketing on that is more than 100% success. 2. Beginner user doesn't care if the OS is with a green Start button, blue bar and meadow background. He/she cares to have a PC that will use to be productive (we focus on end user and not web administrator). Also cares weather he/she doesn't have to search for the software and the crack of the software (licences etc). Until now (I heard) that only Apple does that. You open your PC and you work. 3. Advance users, don't need us to make flyers with a nice text on them. They already know what openSUSE is all about and they already decide if openSUSE or any other distro is the best for them.
I think we are talking about different things. The openSUSE strategy (while not yet rectified) states that our target user is this: We cater for users who are interested in computers and want to get work done, experiment or learn. That means grandma who doesn't care about computers is NOT a target for openSUSE. However, her niece who sets up her computer and maintains it might very well be a target user for openSUSE. In other words, we focus on people who are at least interested in learning about computers. If we start focussing on people who barely used a mouse before and don't want to know about computers other than "how do I open hotmail" we can better stop. Because openSUSE is not ready for them and never will be. Such users need someone to help them with their computer.
Well, that was one of many reasons I didn't fit with Greek Fedora community. They were searching for contributors and not end users. Until now, Greek openSUSE community joined events based on promotion of openSUSE to beginner users (either on Linux or advanced windows users that use cracked software).
We do look for endusers. But for endusers who at least know what an operating system is, or are at least interested in learning. I doubt you ever find someone at a conference who is completely not interested in computers - but those would NOT be our target users. We target system admins, geeks, it students, but also people wo need to get work done in their office and who like to have an OS that HELPS them, not limits them.
Why don't we focus to flyers for schools? The kids are the next generations of computer users and admins.
Ubuntu in Greece is based on users.
But those users are interested in computers, yes? So they must almost surely know at least some basics. I don't oppose writing a very basic folder and using it in some situations (like a school, as you wrote) but while users are good and the future is important we also have to think about the now. Imagine you are successful and get 100.000 new users, half of them school children. Who is going to answer their questions? We don't have the resources for that... Who will solve the bugs they find? Many of them will be small usability issues for which we don't have the resources to fix them... The growth of our userbase has to go hand in hand with the growth of our number of contributors - like you. So yes, it is important to get new users. But be sure to teach them to help each other and to build up a support infrastructure with volunteers or else they will be very disappointed because nobody can help them...
That's why they rule here, although they only joined 2-3 of tech events during the past year (they didn't make release party for 10.04 or 10.10).
Anyways, those are some of my thoughts.
Thanks. I hope my thoughts were helpful too :D
Stathis
On 07/01/2011 04:41 μμ, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
I think we are talking about different things. The openSUSE strategy (while not yet rectified) states that our target user is this: We cater for users who are interested in computers and want to get work done, experiment or learn.
That means grandma who doesn't care about computers is NOT a target for openSUSE. However, her niece who sets up her computer and maintains it might very well be a target user for openSUSE.
In other words, we focus on people who are at least interested in learning about computers. If we start focussing on people who barely used a mouse before and don't want to know about computers other than "how do I open hotmail" we can better stop. Because openSUSE is not ready for them and never will be. Such users need someone to help them with their computer.
Agree. Those people who are interested in learning about computers are characterized as beginner users, right?
But those users are interested in computers, yes? So they must almost surely know at least some basics. I don't oppose writing a very basic folder and using it in some situations (like a school, as you wrote) but while users are good and the future is important we also have to think about the now.
Imagine you are successful and get 100.000 new users, half of them school children. Who is going to answer their questions? We don't have the resources for that... Who will solve the bugs they find? Many of them will be small usability issues for which we don't have the resources to fix them...
The growth of our userbase has to go hand in hand with the growth of our number of contributors - like you. So yes, it is important to get new users. But be sure to teach them to help each other and to build up a support infrastructure with volunteers or else they will be very disappointed because nobody can help them...
From my short experience, when I install openSUSE to a friend's computer and he/she faces a problem, he/she will call me and not ask the question to the list or forum, even if he/she is interested in computers and is an average user. I'm 100% sure that he/she will call me and ask me: "Stathis, I have a problem...". Regarding the school focusing, Mr Stallman told us that when we go to schools to promote FOSS the reply is "but the kids will use windows at their jobs, so we don't need FOSS" and when we promote FOSS to companies they reply "but the kids in school are taught in windows. We need money to re-educate them on FOSS". So what is right and what is wrong? As an answer to your question about users, what is our goal actually? To get everyone from other OS? To get everyone from other distros? I prefer to have 50.000 new children that will ask questions etc, even if I don't have resources. It's statistically certain that even if I had the resources, I will lose some (I count 10.000 users). But I prefer to have 50.000 new young users and from all of them will get 1000 contributors and 39.000 users and future clients (out of the 100.000 new users). From those new users some can become our future resources plus the FOSS educated kids are potential customers for Novell and SUSE (if we earn them). I hope I didn't mixed the whole thought since I do it sometimes now I study pathology of digestive system.
Thanks. I hope my thoughts were helpful too :D
Yes. Very. Maybe I also mixed up the first thought of jdd. Stathis -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 07.01.2011 17:27, schrieb Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr):
From my short experience, when I install openSUSE to a friend's computer and he/she faces a problem, he/she will call me and not ask the question to the list or forum, even if he/she is interested in computers and is an average user. I'm 100% sure that he/she will call me and ask me: "Stathis, I have a problem...".
Regarding the school focusing, Mr Stallman told us that when we go to schools to promote FOSS the reply is "but the kids will use windows at their jobs, so we don't need FOSS" and when we promote FOSS to companies they reply "but the kids in school are taught in windows. We need money to re-educate them on FOSS". To first: Yes, I know these problemes. Always there´s a problem with a computer in my family (they all using Windows, so they _are_ problems) they call me. Sometimes I came with a openSUSE 11.2 GNOME live-CD and saved somethings. But if I say, that Linux is the optimal OS, they just laugh at me and say, that Windows is much better (they don´t show any arguments pro Windows, they just say: no. I don´t wanna Linux).
To second: I know a school right here, that using Linux. First, the Heinrich-Böll-Gymnasium here, that uses Debian, and the Gymnasium zum Altenforst, that uses Linux for software-changes and administration stuff. So, I think open source is always there and the companies will understand..... But for education, we have edu-l-i-f-e, or not? confused kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 January 2011 12:07:38 Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 07.01.2011 17:27, schrieb Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr):
From my short experience, when I install openSUSE to a friend's computer and he/she faces a problem, he/she will call me and not ask the question to the list or forum, even if he/she is interested in computers and is an average user. I'm 100% sure that he/she will call me and ask me: "Stathis, I have a problem...".
Regarding the school focusing, Mr Stallman told us that when we go to schools to promote FOSS the reply is "but the kids will use windows at their jobs, so we don't need FOSS" and when we promote FOSS to companies they reply "but the kids in school are taught in windows. We need money to re-educate them on FOSS".
To first: Yes, I know these problemes. Always there´s a problem with a computer in my family (they all using Windows, so they _are_ problems) they call me. Sometimes I came with a openSUSE 11.2 GNOME live-CD and saved somethings. But if I say, that Linux is the optimal OS, they just laugh at me and say, that Windows is much better (they don´t show any arguments pro Windows, they just say: no. I don´t wanna Linux).
You should stop helping with windows problems. Tell them you use linux and don't know about windows or don't want to know. If they want your help they can use linux. Seriously. I did this, moved some ppl over to linux and the others don't bother me with stupid windows questions anymore!
To second: I know a school right here, that using Linux. First, the Heinrich-Böll-Gymnasium here, that uses Debian, and the Gymnasium zum Altenforst, that uses Linux for software-changes and administration stuff.
Awesome! go there and do an interview or article with them :D
So, I think open source is always there and the companies will understand.....
But for education, we have edu-l-i-f-e, or not?
Yup.
confused kdl
Le 07/01/2011 15:41, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
That means grandma who doesn't care about computers is NOT a target for openSUSE. However, her niece who sets up her computer and maintains it might very well be a target user for openSUSE.
yes. I started this thread only to makes us note that other users exists and that we have to be polite and friendly with them. We can say "we are not for you, eventually ask some friend, sorry. Come back in some time, if you are more friendly with computer, we will be proud to help you become an openSUSE addict." one or two pages, one or two flyers, that's all. jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 January 2011 17:29:28 jdd wrote:
Le 07/01/2011 15:41, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
That means grandma who doesn't care about computers is NOT a target for openSUSE. However, her niece who sets up her computer and maintains it might very well be a target user for openSUSE.
yes.
I started this thread only to makes us note that other users exists and that we have to be polite and friendly with them. We can say "we are not for you, eventually ask some friend, sorry. Come back in some time, if you are more friendly with computer, we will be proud to help you become an openSUSE addict."
one or two pages, one or two flyers, that's all.
Hey, don't think I don't support it - I do. If we have the text and layout I will even pay for printing them. But I personally, right now, prefer to work on the other two ones because I think they are relevant to more ppl we meet at conferences... A benefit of this thread already is that we got a simple text on the webpage (once Manu is ready with that) so that's good. And we have a start with that for a flyer or something, so - also good.... THanks for that :D
jdd
In general I ask me why we can´t do something like videos that explains how you can use openSUSE. I mean, If you see it on a flyer, you maybe understand this way, but you don´t _see_ how it´s done. You see some pictures, but in a video, you can really _see_ how things happens. Maybe we can make a Youtube-channel for this things and can do a page called "openSUSE (or Linux) for newbies" like kernelnewbies.org or something like this. thanks kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Friday, January 07, 2011 05:41:23 am Kim Leyendecker wrote:
In general I ask me why we can´t do something like videos that explains how you can use openSUSE.
1) Hands to do the job. 2) Knowledge of movie (film) production. Any movie has a plan how to make it and part of it is in heads of producers, and the other part is script. I compare that to mechanical part production, there is a schematic for each part, there are instructions how to assembly one, but neither of them is so detailed that someone without trade can do anything with them. 3) Programs: 3.1) For film montage (movie editors). All I tried are broken, or lack features. 3.2) To take picture from the screen actions. RecordMyDesktop is not in active development, so it will work as long as some dependency doesn't introduce incompatibility.
I mean, If you see it on a flyer, you maybe understand this way, but you don´t _see_ how it´s done. You see some pictures, but in a video, you can really _see_ how things happens.
Fliers are just one of methods to introduce subject and they can't be sized as some book called The User Manual. It is possible to tell a lot in one flier, and using images is a must, but they are not educational, they have to be pretty to attract reader to ask for more.
Maybe we can make a Youtube-channel for this things and can do a page called "openSUSE (or Linux) for newbies" like kernelnewbies.org or something like this.
There is openSUSE channel on YouTube. Creating one newbie site is fine, but again there is the same problem as with movies (films), we lack hands and expertise to create one. Take, for instance, http://en.opensuse.org . It is boring, largely text wiki. No images. Not that we don't like to have some, but someone has to take them, prepare them to be useful within educational text. First highlight items that are mentioned in text, enumerate those highlights so that is easy to find them and relate to descriptions in text, or better create slides that one can move forth and back as needed. For slides we need plugin (MediaWiki calls them extensions) that will allow image presentation. There are some, but for some reason not installed (I don't remember what was the reason not to have one, incompatibility with used MediaWiki version, or that extension used too much of server resources). Also, we don't have guide lines how to highlight text. Which method to use: circle area, change brightness of the area, change color saturation; What color and font to use for enumeration, where to place numbers. I think that is worth to mention, that there is lack of understanding how important are images. In the world of openSUSE majority that decide about layout are software developers, or developers like, people. They are fine with text as programs are texts, and they are talented and trained to read large texts without problems, memorizing on the fly symbols, objects, methods and their relations. Majority of them can't understand why other people can't do the same, or they, outright, hate pictures as distraction in text. I remember one removing nice pictures from text, with comment "No nice pistures". I guess the guy that added them is now somewhere else adding his nice pictures to some other project that doesn't show repulsiveness to niceties.
thanks kdl
-- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 Jan 2011 09:32:16 Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, January 07, 2011 05:41:23 am Kim Leyendecker wrote:
In general I ask me why we can´t do something like videos that explains how you can use openSUSE.
1) Hands to do the job. 2) Knowledge of movie (film) production. Any movie has a plan how to make it and part of it is in heads of producers, and the other part is script. I compare that to mechanical part production, there is a schematic for each part, there are instructions how to assembly one, but neither of them is so detailed that someone without trade can do anything with them. 3) Programs: 3.1) For film montage (movie editors). All I tried are broken, or lack features. 3.2) To take picture from the screen actions. RecordMyDesktop is not in active development, so it will work as long as some dependency doesn't introduce incompatibility.
I've been impressed with the videos made by Nixie Pixel. Here's a link to one from her Ubuntu linux YouTube channel where she demos the use of Kazam. http://www.youtube.com/user/nixiedoeslinux#p/a/u/2/yqedu_lxcv4 -- Denis Leslie Your Baloney Detection Kit is at this link --- http://bit.ly/cFsgcK -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday, January 08, 2011 09:32:34 am Denis Leslie wrote:
I've been impressed with the videos made by Nixie Pixel. Here's a link to one from her Ubuntu linux YouTube channel where she demos the use of Kazam.
http://www.youtube.com/user/nixiedoeslinux#p/a/u/2/yqedu_lxcv4
I stumbled earlier on her videos and was impressed with quality, but she is not alone that we can use as example. I remember video about creating video. Short and with enough material to wake someones curiosity to start experimenting on his/her own. That is ideal for type of kids that any distro would like to attract. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday, January 08, 2011 09:32:34 am Denis Leslie wrote: ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/nixiedoeslinux#p/a/u/2/yqedu_lxcv4
I should check link first, but I was happy that someone came up with, for me, a lost link :) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Video is a lovely idea, but do we have any contributors who are keen and capable with video? As far as I know our video tools on linux, as Rajko mentions, are not mature so we are probably not attracting keen video creators to openSUSE. It takes a lot of time and effort to make a good quality video so people either have to be very keen to do it, or we need to feel that it's the very best way to present that particular information. There is more to creating a good video than just hitting 'record'. And I mean in terms of user experience, not just technical issues. As a user, I hate long, slow videos that take too long. I can scan a page of text very quickly to pull out the information I need. A video I have to watch to the end, and if someone takes too long I get impatient and think about all the download megabytes they are chewing up! Technically, vision quality needs to be great and if it isn't available in a high enough resolution, I can have trouble seeing the screenshots even with my glasses. So not only does a video creator need a good understanding of openSUSE and the feature(s) they are demonstrating, but also a good understanding of how to present that information and explain it well in a straightforward, clear way, as well as having the technical ability to record and publish it correctly. A good video is enjoyable for sure, and if someone is keen to do videos I say 'go ahead' but only if you are confident that you can make a good quality product. cheers Helen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 08/01/2011 21:40, Helen a écrit :
Video is a lovely idea, but do we have any contributors who are keen and capable with video?
I am, but with very few time left ATM all you said is true... jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 08.01.2011 21:40, schrieb Helen:
There is more to creating a good video than just hitting 'record'. And I mean in terms of user experience, not just technical issues. As a user, I hate long, slow videos that take too long. I can scan a page of text very quickly to pull out the information I need. A video I have to watch to the end, and if someone takes too long I get impatient and think about all the download megabytes they are chewing up!
Okay, when´s ok for jdd, he can do a video. Maybe we can combinate the page with a vid, so that we´ve got all information on a page, and in the end, you can download some videos, if you need more help to understand. So we´ve got the page, for people who just wanna read, and a video for people who need something like this to understand the operating system, the programs or just everything better. good luck kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 09/01/2011 11:24, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :
Okay, when´s ok for jdd, he can do a video. Maybe we can combinate the page with a vid, so that we´ve got all information on a page, and in the end, you can download some videos, if you need more help to understand. So we´ve got the page, for people who just wanna read, and a video for people who need something like this to understand the operating system, the programs or just everything better.
we have to write a script. Basically what do we want on the video?what duration? what target user? where can we discuss this without boring others? jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 09.01.2011 13:29, schrieb jdd:
we have to write a script. Basically what do we want on the video?what duration? what target user? where can we discuss this without boring others?
jdd
Q:What want we do on the video? A: To show how you can connect with the internet, browsing with firefox and getting mails with KMail or Thunderbird Q. For which people this video could be interesting? A: For not-technical people I think. Where can we discuss this without boring others? We can create a website. Maybe www.opensusebeginners.org or something like this. Then we make three categories: 1.) Beginner 2.) Advanced 3.) Poweruser And people who thinks they are beginners, can watch this, people who are "advanced" don´t need to watch the podcasts/vids of the beginners. A Poweruser can watch videos about working as root on the shell or compiling the kernel. kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 09.01.2011 13:42, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
Q:What want we do on the video? A: To show how you can connect with the internet, browsing with firefox and getting mails with KMail or Thunderbird
For users, who doesn´t have a computer with Linux, especially openSUSE yet, maybe we can ask some Linux magazines (e.g. PCWelt Linux here in Germany) to publish some articles about our work for beginners and advanced users. For some really essential questions like "How can I install software?" We´ve got a lot wisdom in the Wiki. Maybe we can create a "Hot Question Bar" where are Links for these articles in Wiki. Working together with the "Linux press" will be important for users, who play with the idea, change their OS and using Linux. (again) kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 09/01/2011 13:42, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :
Where can we discuss this without boring others?
We can create a website. Maybe www.opensusebeginners.org or something like this. Then we make three categories:
no. I do't where we can publish but where we can discuss the content of the video, the script and the making of. I can create a mailing list of my own (I don't think we need yet an openSUSE one)or simply crosspost please, interested people, contact me privately asap thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 09/01/2011 13:42, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :
Q:What want we do on the video? A: To show how you can connect with the internet, browsing with firefox and getting mails with KMail or Thunderbird
* just to show how it's difficult to do this (and then we can open an other subject elsewhere): what does this mean? connect with the internet is done by launching firefox. Launching firefox is just a way of opening the menu, going to applications, internet and clic on firefox. getting mails is much more difficult (have to choose an account...) if not done from hotmail or google mail with firefox. * also: do we need a true video (from a camcorder) or a desktop reader? for the script, we have to detail all the needed steps on wrtiting before beginning any video making if you happen to read french, I have already done some sort of film project here http://www.culte.org/pmwiki/?n=Rubriques.LeFilmDuCULTe and I can translate it in english if necessary. * finally: what is the video upload site the more opensource (and opensuse) friendly? I can already publish on Youtube and Dailymotion. thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 09.01.2011 15:13, schrieb jdd:
what does this mean? connect with the internet is done by launching firefox. Launching firefox is just a way of opening the menu, going to applications, internet and clic on firefox.
Yeah, I mean something like this: a person (maybe you) explain, how you can connect to the internet. (It´s not done by launching Firefox by the way, you first have to connect via WLAN or what ever.) Then you can show, that FF is running. The person have to _explain_ what happened on the screen. In my mind, the scene looks so: - You start talking, how you can connect (as an example) to the internet. Then the camera turns to the screen and you show how you connect there Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiLOQ6OnDYA or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3U89FCLhG8 He´s a nice example I think. He explains and shows on the desktop I mean something like this. Next point: Writing a script: I´m not really into something like this, and I don´t wanna say something about it. You looks like an expert for this, so why you can write a script? I think YouTube is the right way. So really much people can watch it. sorry if I misunderstand you kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 06/01/2011 10:44 μμ, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
I am afraid JDD is right, this is too much text for a 2-page flyer. It just doesn't work... I do like the idea of a very newbie-friendly flyer but it should be much, much shorter.
I am afraid all of linux, operating systems and free software AND openSUSE just doesn't fit on one flyer :D
BTW the folders here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Marketing_materials#Folders_and_leaflets
aren't finished yet, maybe we can put a bit more effort here - they target the 90% of the people we see at conferences we visit all the time ;-)
The text we wrote for newbies is great for our webpage, let's keep it at that for now. How often do you meet people who don't know what an operating system is at a conference?
If I were newbie, I would prefer a flyer with more pictures such as cartoons. When I help installing openSUSE to my newbie friends, I explain them the GNU and that there are also other Linux distributions, they ask me questions such as antivirus, why Linux (although there are plenty of positives) it's behind the scene (I reply it's marketing). Also they ask me why is free etc. I think people need fast food and a flyer explaining with cartoon (or cartoon pictures) is what we need. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 06/01/2011 11:26 μμ, Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr) wrote:
If I were newbie, I would prefer a flyer with more pictures such as cartoons. When I help installing openSUSE to my newbie friends, I explain them the GNU and that there are also other Linux distributions, they ask me questions such as antivirus, why Linux (although there are plenty of positives) it's behind the scene (I reply it's marketing). Also they ask me why is free etc. I think people need fast food and a flyer explaining with cartoon (or cartoon pictures) is what we need.
Forgot to mention that it doesn't need translation to many languages etc... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/01/2011 06:20, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
this text is fairly good. However, we should add a part "is openSUSE for you", based on the defined goals. We shouldn't fear to say "openSUSE may not be (yet) for you, try to learn a bit more and then you may benefit of all the goodies of openSUSE" jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 06.01.2011 08:49, schrieb jdd:
Le 06/01/2011 06:20, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
this text is fairly good. However, we should add a part "is openSUSE for you", based on the defined goals. We shouldn't fear to say "openSUSE may not be (yet) for you, try to learn a bit more and then you may benefit of all the goodies of openSUSE"
jdd
+1 I think when we say it, the people will think that we really try to help them. I mean, it´s easy to say:" Yes that´s works for you" and then never care again. So, jdd´s idea is great, I think! kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Have a look at this too http://en.opensuse.org/Concepts On Thu, 2011-01-06 at 11:44 +0100, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 06.01.2011 08:49, schrieb jdd:
Le 06/01/2011 06:20, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
this text is fairly good. However, we should add a part "is openSUSE for you", based on the defined goals. We shouldn't fear to say "openSUSE may not be (yet) for you, try to learn a bit more and then you may benefit of all the goodies of openSUSE"
jdd
+1
I think when we say it, the people will think that we really try to help them. I mean, it´s easy to say:" Yes that´s works for you" and then never care again.
So, jdd´s idea is great, I think!
kdl
-- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 06 January 2011 18:13:26 Manu Gupta wrote:
Have a look at this too http://en.opensuse.org/Concepts
That is actually a very interesting series of pages about openSUSE, linux and the underlying workings. I can't find any way of getting there from the homepage - maybe, Manu, this should be easier from the new homepage. How about using the new text we wrote, then link from there to Concepts? Maybe on the top: if you need the basics, read on, if you want to read more in-dept information on getting started with openSUSE, go to Concepts...
On Thu, 2011-01-06 at 11:44 +0100, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 06.01.2011 08:49, schrieb jdd:
Le 06/01/2011 06:20, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
this text is fairly good. However, we should add a part "is openSUSE for you", based on the defined goals. We shouldn't fear to say "openSUSE may not be (yet) for you, try to learn a bit more and then you may benefit of all the goodies of openSUSE"
jdd
+1
I think when we say it, the people will think that we really try to help them. I mean, it´s easy to say:" Yes that´s works for you" and then never care again.
So, jdd´s idea is great, I think!
kdl
Am 13.01.2011 12:53, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
On Thursday 06 January 2011 18:13:26 Manu Gupta wrote:
Have a look at this too http://en.opensuse.org/Concepts
That is actually a very interesting series of pages about openSUSE, linux and the underlying workings. I can't find any way of getting there from the homepage - maybe, Manu, this should be easier from the new homepage. How about using the new text we wrote, then link from there to Concepts? Maybe on the top: if you need the basics, read on, if you want to read more in-dept information on getting started with openSUSE, go to Concepts...
+1 The text looks really great. Maybe you can combinate it? good luck kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 13 January 2011 13:48:07 Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 13.01.2011 12:53, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
On Thursday 06 January 2011 18:13:26 Manu Gupta wrote:
Have a look at this too http://en.opensuse.org/Concepts
That is actually a very interesting series of pages about openSUSE, linux and the underlying workings. I can't find any way of getting there from the homepage - maybe, Manu, this should be easier from the new homepage. How about using the new text we wrote, then link from there to Concepts? Maybe on the top: if you need the basics, read on, if you want to read more in-dept information on getting started with openSUSE, go to Concepts...
+1
The text looks really great. Maybe you can combinate it?
That is also an idea. Kim, maybe you'd like to try and merge Concepts with the text that we wrote? It's mostly checking if the text we wrote is on Concepts and if not, adding it to the Concepts page by copy-paste and some minor modifications... ??? Would be quite awesome :D
good luck kdl
If we all agree with the text, I will transfer it to the wiki asap On Thu, 2011-01-06 at 08:49 +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 06/01/2011 06:20, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
jdd
Either way, we have created this page: http://ietherpad.com/HGnVPSDjFD
this text is fairly good. However, we should add a part "is openSUSE for you", based on the defined goals. We shouldn't fear to say "openSUSE may not be (yet) for you, try to learn a bit more and then you may benefit of all the goodies of openSUSE"
jdd
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
writing my other mail, I noticed it may be difficult for complete newbie to download and burn a dvd but wa have an online demo possible, on Studio!! could it be possible to make a demo live dvd available to the large public from something like Studio?? just clic and try? jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 03.01.2011 10:39, schrieb jdd:
could it be possible to make a demo live dvd available to the large public from something like Studio?? just clic and try?
Like Studio? A good tool, the testdrive. But when I open it with Firefox 3.6.13/Windows I can´t run Testdrive. So I think beginners won´t like something, that don´t run under their Windows. Under openSUSE and Ubuntu it runs perfect. A little bit slow but perfect. kind regards kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 03 January 2011 11:00:15 Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 03.01.2011 10:39, schrieb jdd:
could it be possible to make a demo live dvd available to the large public from something like Studio?? just clic and try?
Like Studio? A good tool, the testdrive. But when I open it with Firefox 3.6.13/Windows I can´t run Testdrive. So I think beginners won´t like something, that don´t run under their Windows.
Under openSUSE and Ubuntu it runs perfect. A little bit slow but perfect.
Weird, it is just flash, should work almost anywhere...
kind regards kdl
On Monday 03 January 2011 10:39:26 jdd wrote:
writing my other mail, I noticed it may be difficult for complete newbie to download and burn a dvd
but wa have an online demo possible, on Studio!!
could it be possible to make a demo live dvd available to the large public from something like Studio?? just clic and try?
You mean like online running it? Like testrun? It is possible, but expensive - testrun costs quite some resources...
jdd
http://live.opensuse.org/ Its here :) On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 14:16 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 10:39:26 jdd wrote:
writing my other mail, I noticed it may be difficult for complete newbie to download and burn a dvd
but wa have an online demo possible, on Studio!!
could it be possible to make a demo live dvd available to the large public from something like Studio?? just clic and try?
You mean like online running it? Like testrun? It is possible, but expensive - testrun costs quite some resources...
jdd
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 03 January 2011 14:17:41 Manu Gupta wrote:
Its here :)
Wow, didn't know that. Why is there no link on our frontpage to this?!?!?
On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 14:16 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 10:39:26 jdd wrote:
writing my other mail, I noticed it may be difficult for complete newbie to download and burn a dvd
but wa have an online demo possible, on Studio!!
could it be possible to make a demo live dvd available to the large public from something like Studio?? just clic and try?
You mean like online running it? Like testrun? It is possible, but expensive - testrun costs quite some resources...
jdd
On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 14:58 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 14:17:41 Manu Gupta wrote:
Its here :)
Wow, didn't know that. Why is there no link on our frontpage to this?!?!?
Reason being we do not have infinite bandwidth.. it does not work always
On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 14:16 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 03 January 2011 10:39:26 jdd wrote:
writing my other mail, I noticed it may be difficult for complete newbie to download and burn a dvd
but wa have an online demo possible, on Studio!!
could it be possible to make a demo live dvd available to the large public from something like Studio?? just clic and try?
You mean like online running it? Like testrun? It is possible, but expensive - testrun costs quite some resources...
jdd
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Monday, January 03, 2011 07:59:35 am Manu Gupta wrote:
On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 14:58 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote: ...
Wow, didn't know that. Why is there no link on our frontpage to this?!?!?
Reason being we do not have infinite bandwidth.. it does not work always
It worked once directly from the browser, and I was asking myself how long it will survive. The fact is that something like that should be available, but, most likely, on much stronger infrastructure and lesser naivety, like request not to change default passwords. One prankster, or "competitor", and no other can access a demo. I'm not sure was I able to use demo to browse the Internet, but: - if yes, then it would work nicely as open-bot, open-spam-server and what not. - if not, what is use of such demo. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Le 03/01/2011 14:17, Manu Gupta a écrit :
Its here :)
great!! openSUSE, the impossible is already done :-)) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 31.12.2010 09:24, schrieb Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr):
I know that there are wiki with the subject migration from windows to openSUSE. It's somethin we must focus more.
You know the "SUSE greeter" that starts when you´ve installed openSUSE and you perform the really first start. Maybe we can make something, that pop-up after the start and show, where you can find help if you come from Windows to openSUSE. kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 5:18 AM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
I knew openSUSE is not devoted to complete newbies, however... I wonder is we should not rethink completely part of our messages to fit people that uses webphones and mp3 readers, but do considere computer exactly like cars... not knowing any technical langage.
If a people don't know what a laptop is, she may not understand at all what is a windows manager or a live cd...
I don't think that kind of users (new ones) need to know what a window managers are or what is the exact difference between gnome-terminal or konsole or whatever in the very beginning of the experience as long as they are happy with GNOME/KDE/etc. What I want to express is that if our lovely distro is solid to perform anything they are expecting, only with time and practice the new users will learn and understand the details. Besides, we have docs showing very interesting points of openSUSE ;) (doc.opensuse.org)
May be we should speak of "internet access cd, openSUSE version" or "Word processing openSUSE version", I don't really know :-)
Not sure about that. Like openoffice, pidgin, etc are opensuse-branded but in the end if the user then is forced to use another distro he/she will have almost the same pidgin or openorrice, or xyz pretty identical software behaviour, and we already promote the apps we've got in no technical language! :D Bests -- Ricardo Varas Santana openSUSE Member, Ambassador, and Translator. http://ricardovs.wordpress.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
Bruno Friedmann -
Denis Leslie -
Efstathios Iosifidis -
Helen -
jdd -
Jos Poortvliet -
Kim Leyendecker -
Kostas Boukouvalas -
Kostas Koudaras -
Manu Gupta -
Rajko M. -
Ricardo Varas Santana -
Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr)