On Monday 09 June 2008, Christian Lorch wrote:

I dont know how stable "Factory" will become, but I would appreciate a "quite-stable" 4.1 KDE für 11.0 if possible. (little more stable like to today KDE-3.5.x-packages for 10.3

Factory is "quite-stable". it is the one we use daily, and while it might have bugs, we're working on them and appreciate bugreports. So its the repository you're looking for.

I like the new features that come with the updates today, but I think it is essential with 4.0.x to give a soft migration to 4.1.x (but I dont know suses-kde-4.0.x, planned for 11.0)

users who want to migrate to KDE 4.1 must either upgrade to openSUSE 11.1, or use the KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Desktop repository (which will get KDE 4.1 when openSUSE 11.1 is released). If they want KDE 4.1 while we're still developing and bugfixing it, they must add the :Factory repository (which is contrary to its name also available for older openSUSE releases) Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Montag, 9. Juni 2008 schrieb Dirk Mueller:

users who want to migrate to KDE 4.1 must either upgrade to openSUSE 11.1, or use the KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Desktop repository (which will get KDE 4.1 when openSUSE 11.1 is released). If they want KDE 4.1 while we're still developing and bugfixing it, they must add the :Factory repository (which is contrary to its name also available for older openSUSE releases)

And what are the plans for KDE 4.2 ? If both SUSE and KDE hold their promised release cycles ( 8 months/ 6 months ) KDE-4.2.0 will be released few days before 11.1. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 09 June 2008, Martin Schlander wrote:

4.2 for 11.1 will become available in the confusingly named :Factory repo as I understand it.

KDE 4.2 for 11.1 will be available in the UNSTABLE repository before 11.1, and probably somewhen in the :Factory repository mid of next year (after SLE11). Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 09 June 2008, Ben Kevan wrote:

FWIW I consider KDE4:Stable to mean that it is the Stable release of KDE4 and not the Stable release for openSUSE itself.

Maybe a KDE4:Release or KDE4:SUSEStable or something.

Thats an interesting point, which makes me wonder why you suggest it. I'm interested in why you think that way. We've thought about this, and decided differently, for (among the) following reasons: - Even if KDE project upstream does a "stable" release, that doesn't mean that the openSUSE integration is stable. the packaging could have bugs that makes things not work, or there could be patches in there that make it crash. even if neither of that is the case, there could be integration issues, like a wrong/too old/too new/ version of some 3rd party library in the distribution which KDE depends on. As a result of that, things fail to work and are not stable, even though it is based on a "stable" release. - Even if we ship a version of KDE that upstream considers "unstable", we do it because we consider it stable. Stable in the sense of being usable, polished and not having major bugs, not stable in the sense of being feature complete or the latest state of the art. - Speaking from experience, and I am allowed to say that as a long time KDE contributor: Even things that are upstream released as "stable" often have major bugs. Thats the nature of open source projects: Release early, release often. Even stable releases are done that way. It also means that early "stable" releases might not really be more stable than the latest patch release of the previous feature branch. Upstream's stable definition is in the sense of "will not get any major new features, and from now on will only be bugfixed". As a matter of fact, even bugfixes introduce regressions sometimes, some of them being worse than the original bug. Another reason why upstream's stable definition doesn't really mean that it is more stable for the user. - Almost all of the bugs we fixed for KDE 4.0.x in openSUSE 11.0, they were also being found in KDE 4.1 branch, and we fixed them there as well. So, as part of our work of stabilizing and integrating a KDE release into our distribution, we're contributing back to make the next upstream stable release more stable. This is different from how upstream works: they use the unstable version, and sometimes backport easy fixes into the stable branch. Both approaches complement each other. So, thinking about it, we declare something stable that we (as in the openSUSE community) consider as being stable, because thats the additional value we provide over a LFS distribution. I think thats a fair decision. if you personally disagree with that because you believe that upstream has a better judgement about what is stable and what is not than openSUSE, then pick the "other" repository as your update source. We offer you the freedom to be able to do just that. Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 10 June 2008, Ben Kevan wrote:

Stable: KDE 4.0.4 (will be released and updated throughout the life of openSUSE 11.0

at least as long as there is no openSUSE 11.1 (at that time it will contain the state of KDE of openSUSE 11.1, if not a bit sooner)

Factory: 4.0.X and 4.X will be released as they MAY break some other dependencies in the current installation since it will be developed based on the current developed product.

correct.

Unstable: Much like factory but the following released product (most understood as possibly upstream updates).

correct.

Or am I completely confused?

No, you got it all correct :) Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 10 June 2008, Martin Schlander wrote:

I also believe the gnomer repos use "stable" and "unstable" in the sense of what's released officially upstream or not.

We're working on unifying the definitions of stable and unstable for kde and gnome.

So it's clear there'll be some confusion, when it's changed for KDE to mean stable/unstable SUSE packages.

in my opinion nothing has changed, really.

Maybe you could try and convince the gnome devs to use a similar structure?

Already WIP ;) Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 10 June 2008, Stefan Kunze wrote:

the impression that the Plan was to go with KDE4 in 11.0 despite it not being feature complete and then give an easy upgrade path for 4.1 when it is released. So apparently this has changed now. Why?

it hasn't really changed. we can still move the KDE 4.1.0 final packages into KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Desktop, so this is according to the original plans. Note that this plan wasn't decided on, it was just one out of many possible ways to go. However, we haven't decided yet if we want to move the KDE 4.1.0 packages into STABLE. It would have one advantage: one repository less to maintain with the same amount of people (which is good). It also has disadvantages: online updates for 11.0 users are not tested anymore.

I am thinking that a lot of people using KDE4.0 want to upgrade to 4.1 when it is released,

They certainly can do that, all they have to do is to add the buildservice repository.

so in my opinion it would be appropriate to put a bit of effort into making sure it works in 11.0 after it is released.

Thats exactly what we're doing

Because most users are not able to judge the risk of using the 11.1 Factory repo.

Then we need proper communication on that issue :) Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Ben Kevan wrote:

When would this go into place or has it already?

There are currently no public place with KDE 4.0.5 packages. thats because we believe that the 4.0.4 packages contain all the necessary fixes, and that users are preferring to get the 4.1 packages (which are surprisingly stable).

The reason I ask is because right now none of the repos have the 4.0.5 packages in them, and it would be nice to get those for openSUSE 11.0.

I could add them, but I'll have to ask if we have another 40GB of diskspace on opensuse build for that. Oh, they would also be completely unsupported. Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday, 10. June 2008 10:13:47 Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:

Dirk, while I like that scheme very much, the naming of Factory is very confusing - like others stated in this thread, too. How about "Next", or "NEXT" to emphasize intermediate purpose of this tree (related to the

The whole project uses "Factory" as synonym for the development version of next openSUSE release. Why should we change that/differ? Bye, Steve --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Tirsdag den 10. Juni 2008 10:45:31 skrev Stephan Binner:

On Tuesday, 10. June 2008 10:13:47 Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:

...

Dirk, while I like that scheme very much, the naming of Factory is very confusing - like others stated in this thread, too. How about "Next", or "NEXT" to emphasize intermediate purpose of this tree (related to the

The whole project uses "Factory" as synonym for the development version of next openSUSE release. Why should we change that/differ?

I guess when you have a full URL saying /Factory/openSUSE_10.3/ then it'll make sense to people. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 21 June 2008, Scott Newton wrote:

So for 11.0 should I be using KDE:KDE4:Factory:[Desktop/Extra-Apps/Community]/openSUSE_11.0

Thats the correct one

or KDE:KDE4:Factory:[Desktop/Extra-Apps/Community]/Factory

No. that one is current openSUSE Factory development, which currently heads into the direction of 11.1. at the moment there are not a lot of differences, but development is fast, and it will become incompatible quite soon. Both contain the same version of KDE, but they're recompiled against the appropriate distro. if you have 11.0 installed, use 11.0 :) Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org