Re: [opensuse-kde] 11.4 and evergreen (was: Can the KDE:Unstable:SC packages be updated to version 4.8.97)
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:34 PM, todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
On 2012/07/22 16:08 (GMT+0200) Sven Burmeister composed:
todd rme wrote:
I wouldn't remove openSUSE 11.4 support right now. People running 11.4, might still want to install KDE 4.9 :-)
Sven Burmeister said not to (due to the impending eol), that is why I am asking.
so what's the point of starting to support something which will be dropped in the middle?
Evergreen.
Are we planning on supporting evergreen in the KR repos? I would think that would be a big burden on the project maintainers and on OBS. It isn't just build targets, the entire KR46 repo would need to be kept active.
Are people who are sticking with a 3-year old release really going to want a bleeding-edge KDE release? Especially since it will pull in new libraries and updated versions of old libraries, potentially destabilizing the system.
This is a more general issue than KR 49, so I am splitting this into a different thread. The issue is how long we will support openSUSE and evergreen releases in different repositories. There are several issues: 1. The load on obs. 2. The maintenance load 3. Whether there is actually demand for this 1 and 2 become more serious as time goes on, because successive KDE releases add new library dependencies, and updated library version dependencies, which increases the load on OBS, makes maintenance more difficult, and potentially decreases the stability of the distribution. So my personal feelings on this are as follows: KDE:Extra and KDE:UpdatedApps should probably be kept through the evergreen period, but certainly at least for the lifetime of each release. However, packages failing for old releases should be expected and minimal, if any, effort should go into keeping packages building for evergreen (although obviously unnecessary changes that break old releases should be avoided). KDE:Unstable repos should only be kept until the next release is out plus maybe 2 or 3 months. Anyone running bleeding-edge software would be unlikely to be using old releases. I would sort of be inclined to 3 months, but 2 months would be more closely matched to the eol policy. KR repos should be kept for the lifetime of older releases, but new KR repos going stable within a few months of a release's eol should not support the old release. The rest should only be kept for the lifetime of the release, not for evergreen. I do have some question of KDE:Distro:Factory. It is not explicitly a stable repo, but on the other hand as I understand it it is widely-used. So in terms of its intent, I would place it with the Unstable repos, but in terms of its practical use I might keep it for the lifetime of a release. Does anyone have any thoughts, alternatives, or strong objections to any of this? -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-07-22 16:56, todd rme wrote:
Does anyone have any thoughts, alternatives, or strong objections to any of this?
There is a reason why an evergreen user might use a recent kde version: that he updated to a then recent version while 11.4 was current. But there is no reason I can see for updating to a _more_ recent version once evergreen starts its cycle. I don't know if I explained my point :-? For example, I'm using 11.4 and the stable kde repo. When 11.4 reaches EOL and evergreen starts, can I continue to use that version, or do I have to revert to the original KDE as shipped with 11.4, or what? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlAMF7QACgkQIvFNjefEBxrcigCgurCYp74d71j7hk0adqhWhmnf p/EAn3us76pOy6njuc0faiHnqqlzUiKa =ginK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
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On 2012-07-22 16:56, todd rme wrote:
Does anyone have any thoughts, alternatives, or strong objections to any of this?
There is a reason why an evergreen user might use a recent kde version: that he updated to a then recent version while 11.4 was current. But there is no reason I can see for updating to a _more_ recent version once evergreen starts its cycle.
I don't know if I explained my point :-?
For example, I'm using 11.4 and the stable kde repo. When 11.4 reaches EOL and evergreen starts, can I continue to use that version, or do I have to revert to the original KDE as shipped with 11.4, or what?
Yes, but if we only take that into account, we wouldn't have eol at all, and we would just support every release forever. However, we have limited time and build resources, so we have to draw the line somewhere. If someone wants to continue using an unsupported release, they need to be prepared to not have support for it. Otherwise eol completely loses its meaning. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 22. Juli 2012, 18:05:28 schrieb todd rme:
Yes, but if we only take that into account, we wouldn't have eol at all, and we would just support every release forever. However, we have limited time and build resources, so we have to draw the line somewhere.
Exactly. KRxy is unsupported from the current point of view for "normal" releases already. Evergreen + KRxy is even more "unsupported". Evergreen AFAIU is mainly about keeping that version distro version secure, not about making it a rolling distro including KDE major release updates.
If someone wants to continue using an unsupported release, they need to be prepared to not have support for it. Otherwise eol completely loses its meaning.
It is not the kde team's job to care about evergreen and its repos. Keeping Extra, KUA etc. just building after e.g. 11.4 is eol is dangerous because they won't get any security updates. Evergreen users should stick to official repos + whatever evergreen people offer – not KDE repos. The most important distro versions currently are 12.1 and 12.2. IMHO any other distro version should only be included if those are set and ready and resources left. Whoever wants KDE 4.9 should simply update to 12.1. Raisin picking is just not on given the scarce resources. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-07-22 18:05, todd rme wrote:
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
For example, I'm using 11.4 and the stable kde repo. When 11.4 reaches EOL and evergreen starts, can I continue to use that version, or do I have to revert to the original KDE as shipped with 11.4, or what?
Yes, but if we only take that into account, we wouldn't have eol at all, and we would just support every release forever. However, we have limited time and build resources, so we have to draw the line somewhere.
I was only explaining why an evergreen user would want to use a kde repo :-) You could ask the evergreen people which kde version they would want to keep and support, if any. Perhaps they only need a frozen version, that is, that some repos are not updated but not removed either. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlAMQcUACgkQIvFNjefEBxpDGwCg2YL3B3VE06aneNNHqFGsx9Xz 0oIAn3DR52FggOaw1cVAsKAP45dJG9uy =p1qp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:09, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@...> wrote:
On 2012-07-22 16:56, todd rme wrote:
Does anyone have any thoughts, alternatives, or strong objections to any of this?
There is a reason why an evergreen user might use a recent kde version: that he updated to a then recent version while 11.4 was current. But there is no reason I can see for updating to a _more_ recent version once evergreen starts its cycle.
I don't know if I explained my point :-?
For example, I'm using 11.4 and the stable kde repo. When 11.4 reaches EOL and evergreen starts, can I continue to use that version, or do I have to revert to the original KDE as shipped with 11.4, or what?
At this moment in time the discusion is about laying the fundation for support of OSS 11.4 in the KR:49 repo. And even as Evergreen user, I have to say, drop support for everything below OSS / SLE 12 . It's just not worth the time on both sides, OBS and maintainer. For the first build I would just enable 12.1, get it running there, open up 12.2, get it working, and after that enable Factory. Most s..t you maintainers will find is around the change from C++99 to C++11, and GCC 4.7 is (sarcasm) super detailed (/sarcasm) on the error messages, Clang gives you more help. Thus 12.1 (gcc 4.6) will be easier than 12.2 (gcc 4.7) and Factory. TL;DR: That is my opinion on KR4.9 and OSS 11.4: No. For the other: = /KDE:/Release:/ - KR4.6 is OSS11.4 only, - KR4.7 is 11.4 and 12.1 - KR4.8 is 11.4 and 12.1 = /KDE:/Distro:/Stable/ - openSUSE_11.4 is a mix of 4.6.0 and 4.7.4 - openSUSE_12.1 is 4.7.4 = /KDE:/Distro:/Factory/ is 4.8.4 - SLE_11_SP2 is empty - openSUSE_11.4, openSUSE_12.1, openSUSE_12.2, and openSUSE_Factory are enabled. IMHO /KDE:/Distro:/Factory/ is mighty unclear in it's purpose. And the wiki page is no real help on this matter.
From my point of view /KDE:/Distro:/Factory/ should only contain openSUSE_12.2 (Distro_Next) and openSUSE_Factory
As openSUSE_12.2 is splitted of from openSUSE_Factory it could / should be moved to /KDE:/Distro:/Stable/. These are my thoughts on /KDE:/ . -- Yamaban. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Sven Burmeister -
todd rme -
Yamaban