[opensuse-kde] missing window decorations, again
TW freshly zypper up'd to 20150831 and now running 5.12.0 on 32 bit 2.8GHz single core P4. This is hardly the first host this has happened on over the years. Every time I get frustrated trying to figure out what packages provide window decorations so that I can install something to get window decorations back. It seems like in the past it was usually something with string oxygen in package name, but I just went through this again without remembering what fixed it the last time, less than a month ago. This time I figured out kdeartwork4-decorations was a/the missing requirement. Has whatever is required to produce window decorations been changing over the past few months or years, with old named packages periodically being removed without ensuring via rpm dependency something else takes their place(es)? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata composed on 2015-09-04 01:54 (UTC-0400):
TW freshly zypper up'd to 20150831 and now running 5.12.0 on 32 bit 2.8GHz single core P4. This is hardly the first host this has happened on over the years. Every time I get frustrated trying to figure out what packages provide window decorations so that I can install something to get window decorations back. It seems like in the past it was usually something with string oxygen in package name, but I just went through this again without remembering what fixed it the last time, less than a month ago. This time I figured out kdeartwork4-decorations was a/the missing requirement.
Has whatever is required to produce window decorations been changing over the past few months or years, with old named packages periodically being removed without ensuring via rpm dependency something else takes their place(es)?
I just did another, and it too was missing window decorations, though kdeartwork4-decorations was already installed. This one got fixed with zypper in kdeartwork4-desktopthemes. :-p -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 4. September 2015, 03:43:41 schrieb Felix Miata:
I just did another, and it too was missing window decorations, though kdeartwork4-decorations was already installed. This one got fixed with zypper in kdeartwork4-desktopthemes. :-p
That's also for KDE4 (as the name implies), and it contains additional KDE4 Plasma themes. Nothing to do with window decorations, and actually not required at all, not even for KDE4... Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 4. September 2015, 01:54:37 schrieb Felix Miata:
TW freshly zypper up'd to 20150831 and now running 5.12.0 on 32 bit 2.8GHz single core P4. This is hardly the first host this has happened on over the years. Every time I get frustrated trying to figure out what packages provide window decorations so that I can install something to get window decorations back. It seems like in the past it was usually something with string oxygen in package name, but I just went through this again without remembering what fixed it the last time, less than a month ago.
The default "Breeze" window decoration is in breeze5-decorations, which is *required* by plasma5-session, kwin5, and the Plasma5 pattern, so you shouldn't miss it unless you actively break your installation. Are you re-using your $HOME? Another decoration might be set in the user's settings then which is not installed by default. The "Oxygen" (KDE4 style) decoration is in the package oxygen5-decorations, btw. If the window decorations are missing, it might also be because kwin is crashing though.
This time I figured out kdeartwork4-decorations was a/the missing requirement.
Hm? That's for KDE4. Aren't you using the default Plasma5 desktop?
Has whatever is required to produce window decorations been changing over the past few months or years, with old named packages periodically being removed without ensuring via rpm dependency something else takes their place(es)?
No. At least not recently. The last change was with Plasma 5.2, because this was the first version that used the "Breeze" decoration by default. (5.2 didn't even include "Oxygen", because that hadn't been ported to the then new window decoration system, it got re-added in 5.3) And of course this has changed in general with the switch to Plasma5, as the packages are named differently. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-04 10:15 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
TW freshly zypper up'd to 20150831 and now running 5.12.0 on 32 bit 2.8GHz single core P4. This is hardly the first host this has happened on over the years. Every time I get frustrated trying to figure out what packages provide window decorations so that I can install something to get window decorations back. It seems like in the past it was usually something with string oxygen in package name, but I just went through this again without remembering what fixed it the last time, less than a month ago.
The default "Breeze" window decoration is in breeze5-decorations, which is *required* by plasma5-session, kwin5, and the Plasma5 pattern, so you shouldn't miss it unless you actively break your installation.
Or if not using Plasma 5?
Are you re-using your $HOME? Another decoration might be set in the user's settings then which is not installed by default. The "Oxygen" (KDE4 style) decoration is in the package oxygen5-decorations, btw.
Before Breeze, I rarely made changes to decorations since 6 or 8 or more years ago. Default KDE visuals for a long time were good, but not any more.
If the window decorations are missing, it might also be because kwin is crashing though.
This time I figured out kdeartwork4-decorations was a/the missing requirement.
Hm? That's for KDE4. Aren't you using the default Plasma5 desktop?
Not on installations that are the subject of this thread. I have Plasma 5 on only 3-4 test installations, in order to observe v5 progress in openSUSE context. Plasma 5 in large part due to Breeze is too unpleasant to use as a replacement for its predecessors. The rest of my TWs either have KDE3 or have kept KDE4 by preventing installation of kde-oxygen-fonts and breeze* via zypp locks.
Has whatever is required to produce window decorations been changing over the past few months or years, with old named packages periodically being removed without ensuring via rpm dependency something else takes their place(es)?
No. At least not recently. The last change was with Plasma 5.2, because this was the first version that used the "Breeze" decoration by default. (5.2 didn't even include "Oxygen", because that hadn't been ported to the then new window decoration system, it got re-added in 5.3)
And of course this has changed in general with the switch to Plasma5, as the packages are named differently.
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-04 10:37 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
I just did another, and it too was missing window decorations, though kdeartwork4-decorations was already installed. This one got fixed with zypper in kdeartwork4-desktopthemes. :-p
That's also for KDE4 (as the name implies), and it contains additional KDE4 Plasma themes. Nothing to do with window decorations, and actually not required at all, not even for KDE4...
Fact is, no decorations until after I installed kdeartwork4-desktopthemes, just like with kdeartwork4-decorations for the thread starter. For both installations, decorations existed prior to zypper up and reboot, were missing after, until those two packages were added, one to each TW installation. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 4. September 2015, 06:20:31 schrieb Felix Miata:
Or if not using Plasma 5?
Depends on *what* you use, obviously. In particular what window manager. This is the KDE mailinglist, and Plasma 5 is the default (and only supported) KDE desktop in Tumbleweed, so I naturally assumed it was Plasma5/KWin5. You even stated you're running 5.12, which I suppose means the KDE Frameworks5 version. The only mention of your system in your original mail: "TW freshly zypper up'd to 20150831 and now running 5.12.0 on 32 bit 2.8GHz single core P4."
Before Breeze, I rarely made changes to decorations since 6 or 8 or more years ago. Default KDE visuals for a long time were good, but not any more.
That's a matter of taste though. And that's why it is configurable. In hindsight (after using KDE4's oxygen for ~8 years), I hate KDE3's default look though and find it just ugly (although I did like it at the time).
The rest of my TWs either have KDE3 or have kept KDE4 by preventing installation of kde-oxygen-fonts and breeze* via zypp locks.
You should have told that in the beginning, instead of letting people guess. So what is it that you are asking about now? KDE3 or KDE4?
Fact is, no decorations until after I installed kdeartwork4-desktopthemes, just like with kdeartwork4-decorations for the thread starter. For both installations, decorations existed prior to zypper up and reboot, were missing after, until those two packages were added, one to each TW installation. Again, you need to tell what desktop/window manager this is about.
Still, kdeartwork4-desktopthemes is definitely *not* needed. It might have pulled in some other package you missed though. Although it should (can) not have any effect at all on KDE3. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-04 15:08 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata:
Or if not using Plasma 5?
Depends on *what* you use, obviously. In particular what window manager.
I don't use Gnome, or LXDE, or XFCE, or IceWM (except to check occasionally whether a crash is in K-something-or-other or in Xorg), or Cinnamon, or TWM, or Mate, or Enlightenment. What I use used to start with a "K", but it's hard to tell just what it is I'm using in TW. "About KDE" from Help menu has "About KDE" in its window's titlebar, and title "KDE - Be Free!" within the window, but makes no mention of any version.
This is the KDE mailinglist, and Plasma 5 is the default (and only supported) KDE desktop in Tumbleweed, so I naturally assumed it was Plasma5/KWin5.
Maybe it would help to have an opensuse-plasma mailing list and deprecate opensuse-kde?
You even stated you're running 5.12, which I suppose means the KDE Frameworks5 version. The only mention of your system in your original mail: "TW freshly zypper up'd to 20150831 and now running 5.12.0 on 32 bit 2.8GHz single core P4."
It's not so simple to determine or describe what is being used any more. As Luca wrote, "there won't be a KDE5, ever." http://www.kde.org/ still exists. http://www.kde.org/ still has a graphic "Get KDE Software", and announcements that begin "KDE Releases...". What logic is there that exists "Plasma 5" when (NAICT) where never was any Plasma 1, 2 or 3? "About KDE" opened from Konsole no longer reports anything to do with any version. That 5.12.0 I wrote came from "About Konsole". Looking at rpm -q output it is no longer a simple matter to figure out an applicable version. Instead of libkde* and kde* packages, package names begin with inexplicably mixed case, with only a fraction of them beginning with "kd" anything.
Before Breeze, I rarely made changes to decorations since 6 or 8 or more years ago. Default KDE visuals for a long time were good, but not any more.
That's a matter of taste though. And that's why it is configurable.
In hindsight (after using KDE4's oxygen for ~8 years), I hate KDE3's default look though and find it just ugly (although I did like it at the time).
The rest of my TWs either have KDE3 or have kept KDE4 by preventing installation of kde-oxygen-fonts and breeze* via zypp locks.
You should have told that in the beginning, instead of letting people guess. So what is it that you are asking about now? KDE3 or KDE4?
Again, it looks like broken dependency, something that worked prior to zypper up that no longer would until ascertaining what got lost, what's involved to recover and doing whatever is required.
Fact is, no decorations until after I installed kdeartwork4-desktopthemes, just like with kdeartwork4-decorations for the thread starter. For both installations, decorations existed prior to zypper up and reboot, were missing after, until those two packages were added, one to each TW installation.
Again, you need to tell what desktop/window manager this is about.
Maybe, since identity of upstream KDE's products isn't so simple to determine, best to have some list of things to look for in output of ps -A. On TW 20150831 host t2240 that triggered this thread, tail -n24 from ps -A: 800 ? 00:00:00 wickedd-nanny 1247 ? 00:00:00 kdm 1275 ? 00:00:00 kdm 1295 ? 00:00:00 startkde 1396 ? 00:00:00 start_kdeinit 1397 ? 00:00:00 kdeinit4 1398 ? 00:00:00 klauncher 1400 ? 00:00:02 kded4 1408 ? 00:00:00 kglobalaccel 1426 ? 00:00:01 udisksd 1427 ? 00:00:00 kwrapper4 1431 ? 00:00:00 ksmserver 1432 ? 00:00:00 polkitd 1446 ? 00:00:01 kwin 1458 ? 00:00:00 kactivitymanage 1467 ? 00:00:16 plasma-desktop 1471 ? 00:00:00 kded5 1478 ? 00:00:00 kuiserver 1489 ? 00:00:03 krunner 1491 ? 00:00:00 kmix 1494 ? 00:00:01 konsole 1500 ? 00:00:00 polkit-kde-auth 1506 ? 00:00:00 klipper 1508 ? 00:00:02 knotify4
Still, kdeartwork4-desktopthemes is definitely *not* needed. It might have pulled in some other package you missed though.
If I missed something, so did zypper: # tail -n6 /var/log/zypp/history # *** Creating initrd image file '/boot/initrd-4.1.6-2-desktop' done *** # Perl-Bootloader: 2015-09-04 03:00:43 <3> pbl-6159.2 Core::GRUB::GrubDev2UnixDev.297: Error: hd1 not in device map # 2015-09-04 03:00:44|install|kernel-desktop|4.1.6-2.1|i686||OSS|d35e7f9c8db69a0c52f93563852da9dda63ae07b| 2015-09-04 03:40:43|command|root@t2240|'zypper' '-v' 'in' 'kdeartwork4-desktopthemes'| 2015-09-04 03:40:49|install|kdeartwork4-desktopthemes|15.04.3-1.1|noarch|root@t2240|OSS|6e0e5aac02fa8513de6770e02392e511548636bd| -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 4. September 2015, 16:16:56 schrieb Felix Miata:
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-04 15:08 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata:
Or if not using Plasma 5?
Depends on *what* you use, obviously. In particular what window manager.
I don't use Gnome, or LXDE, or XFCE, or IceWM (except to check occasionally whether a crash is in K-something-or-other or in Xorg), or Cinnamon, or TWM, or Mate, or Enlightenment.
It doesn't matter what you don't use, but what you use (or want to use) is vital information to answer your question. Why couldn't you just say that you intend to use the KDE4 desktop? Stop playing games if you want help!
What I use used to start with a "K", but it's hard to tell just what it is I'm using in TW.
You should know what you installed. Apparenty you do know that you don't use Plasma5, which is installed by default...
"About KDE" from Help menu has "About KDE" in its window's titlebar, and title "KDE - Be Free!" within the window, but makes no mention of any version.
"About KDE" only gives information about the KDE project. And it didn't give any information about what desktop or window manager you used in KDE 4 either.
This is the KDE mailinglist, and Plasma 5 is the default (and only supported) KDE desktop in Tumbleweed, so I naturally assumed it was Plasma5/KWin5. Maybe it would help to have an opensuse-plasma mailing list and deprecate opensuse-kde?
Ha ha, you're trying to be funny now? This mailinglist is about *all* KDE-related things in openSUSE (except KDE3 which has its own mailinglist, as it's not supported by the openSUSE KD team). Plasma is just KDE's desktop (and it was called "Plasma" in KDE already, btw) If you don't state what you are using, people assume the default. Don't blame me for not being able to read your mind.
You even stated you're running 5.12, which I suppose means the KDE Frameworks5 version. The only mention of your system in your original mail: "TW freshly zypper up'd to 20150831 and now running 5.12.0 on 32 bit 2.8GHz single core P4."
It's not so simple to determine or describe what is being used any more. As Luca wrote, "there won't be a KDE5, ever." http://www.kde.org/ still exists. http://www.kde.org/ still has a graphic "Get KDE Software", and announcements that begin "KDE Releases...". What logic is there that exists "Plasma 5" when (NAICT) where never was any Plasma 1, 2 or 3?
KDE is the project and community that produces software. This software (currently) is KDE Frameworks 5 (the KDE libraries), KDE Plasma 5 (the desktop/workspace), and KDE Applications (currently a mixture of KDE4 based and KF5 based applications). Those three things are released separately, with separate release cycles and different version numbers. So what would a "KDE 5" be in your definition? It just doesn't make sense.
"About KDE" opened from Konsole no longer reports anything to do with any version.
See above. In previous versions it also only gave the version of the KDE Libraries/Frameworks. And that's irrelevant to your problem. I.e. if you run a KDE4 application in Plasma5, you still get "4.x" as version there. If you run a KDE3 application, you get "3.x" regardless of which desktop you use. The desktop and applications are totally independent of each other, and that's nothing new, it was not even new in KDE4. You can run KF5 applications in the KDE4 desktop, KDE4 applications in Plasma5, and both in GNOME or whatever else there is. Why do you expect a KDE application to tell you what desktop you use? Does Libreoffice tell you? Or do GNOME applications tell you which version of gnome-shell you use, for that matter? No.
That 5.12.0 I wrote came from "About Konsole". Looking at rpm -q output it is no longer a simple matter to figure out an applicable version. Instead of libkde* and kde* packages, package names begin with inexplicably mixed case, with only a fraction of them beginning with "kd" anything.
Yes, because there is no such thing as "KDE 5".
You should have told that in the beginning, instead of letting people guess. So what is it that you are asking about now? KDE3 or KDE4?
Again, it looks like broken dependency, something that worked prior to zypper up that no longer would until ascertaining what got lost, what's involved to recover and doing whatever is required.
That's not an answer to my question. I already told you what package you need for Plasma 5. For KDE4 the situation is as follows: As I already wrote, kdeartwork4-desktopthemes is not needed and totally unrelated to the window decorations. kdeartwork4-decorations does contain (additional, optional) window decorations, but it is not needed either (unless you configured kwin to use one of those). It's not even installed in a standard 13.2 KDE(4) installation. The default window decoration ("Oxygen") is in kdebase4-workspace- liboxygenstyle. (and KDE3's default "Plastik" is even part of the kwin package itself) kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle is *required* by kwin, so you cannot really end up without it (unless you break dependencies). The problem you probably had/have IMHO, is that kwin itself is not required by anything but the KDE4 pattern (which I think does not exist any more in Tumbleweed). It is only recommended by kdebase4-workspace (which contains the desktop). So you probably (or quite certainly I think) didn't even have kwin, the KDE4 window manager, installed, which of course means *no* window decorations (and no managed windows at all). I'm not sure this can be regarded as bug or wrong dependencies though, as the KDE4 desktop can also be used with a different window manager. And as the KDE4 desktop is not supported at all in Tumbleweed any more, you are on your own there, in particular if you prevent the installation of recommended packages. I won't go into KDE3 now, since there's a separate mailinglist for this... Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Sorry, two typos: Am Sonntag, 6. September 2015, 13:27:11 schrieb Wolfgang Bauer:
This is the KDE mailinglist, and Plasma 5 is the default (and only supported) KDE desktop in Tumbleweed, so I naturally assumed it was Plasma5/KWin5.
Maybe it would help to have an opensuse-plasma mailing list and deprecate opensuse-kde?
Ha ha, you're trying to be funny now?
This mailinglist is about *all* KDE-related things in openSUSE (except KDE3 which has its own mailinglist, as it's not supported by the openSUSE KD team).
It's still called the "openSUSE KDE team".
Plasma is just KDE's desktop (and it was called "Plasma" in KDE already, btw)
It was called "Plasma" in KDE4 already.
That 5.12.0 I wrote came from "About Konsole". Looking at rpm -q output it is no longer a simple matter to figure out an applicable version. Instead of libkde* and kde* packages, package names begin with inexplicably mixed case, with only a fraction of them beginning with "kd" anything.
Yes, because there is no such thing as "KDE 5".
I want to add that the 5.12 is the version of the installed KDE Frameworks (libraries), that are being used by Konsole. As you have the KF5 based Konsole installed, this is 5.x, and it would show the same even if you ran it in KDE3. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-06 13:27 (UTC+0200):
For KDE4 the situation is as follows: As I already wrote, kdeartwork4-desktopthemes is not needed and totally unrelated to the window decorations.
kdeartwork4-decorations does contain (additional, optional) window decorations, but it is not needed either (unless you configured kwin to use one of those). It's not even installed in a standard 13.2 KDE(4) installation.
The default window decoration ("Oxygen") is in kdebase4-workspace- liboxygenstyle. (and KDE3's default "Plastik" is even part of the kwin package itself) kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle is *required* by kwin, so you cannot really end up without it (unless you break dependencies). The problem you probably had/have IMHO, is that kwin itself is not required by anything but the KDE4 pattern (which I think does not exist any more in Tumbleweed). It is only recommended by kdebase4-workspace (which contains the desktop). So you probably (or quite certainly I think) didn't even have kwin, the KDE4 window manager, installed, which of course means *no* window decorations (and no managed windows at all).
I'm not sure this can be regarded as bug or wrong dependencies though, as the KDE4 desktop can also be used with a different window manager.
I suppose this is moot, but it did come up again on a different TW installation where I hadn't updated in 5 months. I did a zypper up after locking out breeze* and kde-oxygen-fonts. The plasma4 session came up without any window decorations, and without kdeartwork4-decorations installed. Then I did zypper in kdeartwork4-decorations and restarted plasma4, which came up with window decorations. It doesn't look to me like the deps are as you stated: # rpm -qa | egrep 'oxygens|k4-desktopt|kwin|pattern|k4-decor|session' | sort kdeartwork4-decorations-15.04.3-1.2.i586 kdebase4-session-4.12-5.1.noarch kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle-4.11.21-2.1.i586 kwin-4.11.21-2.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-base-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-enhanced_base-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-enhanced_base_opt-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-fonts-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-fonts_opt-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-sw_management-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-x11-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-x11_opt-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-x11_yast-20150828-1.1.i586 patterns-openSUSE-yast2_basis-20150828-1.1.i586 # ll /usr/share/xsessions/ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 172 Jun 25 11:25 icewm.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 192 Nov 26 2014 kde-plasma.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 129 Jun 18 06:49 twm.desktop -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday, September 11, 2015 08:37:55 AM Felix Miata wrote: ...
I suppose this is moot, but it did come up again on a different TW installation where I hadn't updated in 5 months. I did a zypper up after locking out breeze* and kde-oxygen-fonts. ...
Hi Felix, any trouble or bug report in such a setup is totally unsupported in current Tumbleweed or Leap. In fact, this now gave me a good reason and motivation to obsolete all Plasma 4 components with their current counterparts (kwin->kwin5, kdebase4-workspace- ksysguardd->ksysguard5, etc.) Cheers, Hrvoje
Am Freitag, 11. September 2015, 02:37:55 schrieb Felix Miata:
It doesn't look to me like the deps are as you stated:
They are: wolfi@linux-lf90:~> rpm -qp --requires http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/suse/i586/kwin-4.11.21-2.1.... /bin/sh /sbin/ldconfig /sbin/ldconfig kdebase4-runtime >= 4.14.0 kdebase4-workspace-branding = 4.14 kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle >= 4.11.21 ... wolfi@linux-lf90:~> rpm -qp --recommends http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/suse/i586/kdebase4-workspac... kde-gtk-config kdebase4-SuSE kdebase4-workspace-plasma-calendar kwin plasma-addons plasmoid-quickaccess python-kdebase4
# ll /usr/share/xsessions/ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 172 Jun 25 11:25 icewm.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 192 Nov 26 2014 kde-plasma.desktop -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 129 Jun 18 06:49 twm.desktop
The available xsessions are irrelevant. If kde-plasma.desktop were missing, you couldn't log in to KDE at all (it wouldn't even be listed at the login screen). I repeat: IMHO you were most likely missing kwin (the KDE4 version) itself. kdeartworks4-decorations only contains *additional* window decorations, the default one is in kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle which is required by kwin. Of course if you configured a window decoration from kdeartworks4-decorations, you need to have that installed too. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-11 18:11 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
It doesn't look to me like the deps are as you stated:
They are: wolfi@linux-lf90:~> rpm -qp --requires http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/suse/i586/kwin-4.11.21-2.1.... /bin/sh /sbin/ldconfig /sbin/ldconfig kdebase4-runtime >= 4.14.0 kdebase4-workspace-branding = 4.14 kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle >= 4.11.21 ... wolfi@linux-lf90:~> rpm -qp --recommends http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/suse/i586/kdebase4-workspac... kde-gtk-config kdebase4-SuSE kdebase4-workspace-plasma-calendar kwin plasma-addons plasmoid-quickaccess python-kdebase4
The available xsessions are irrelevant. If kde-plasma.desktop were missing, you couldn't log in to KDE at all (it wouldn't even be listed at the login screen).
I haven't seen a greeter on this installation since too long ago to remember. I start in multi-user.target and run startx on most test installations.
I repeat: IMHO you were most likely missing kwin (the KDE4 version) itself.
kdeartworks4-decorations only contains *additional* window decorations, the default one is in kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle which is required by kwin.
Maybe the following can help you figure out, if you care, why before installing kdeartwork4-decorations there were no decorations in host gx151's, or installations mentioned upthread, plasma session: # zypper se -s lasma | grep ^i # grep kwin /var/log/zypp/history | grep 2015 2015-02-08 21:09:44|install|kwin|4.11.15-1.2|i586||OSS|d72ea7c0d4a85c7128303fab1da235f056b05899| 2015-09-11 05:54:21|install|kwin|4.11.21-2.1|i586||OSS|735a578f691617ebe23ef3043ff71a9aa2d6b8de| # grep kdebase4 /var/log/zypp/history | grep 2015 2015-02-08 20:39:18|install|kdebase4-runtime-branding-upstream|14.12.1-1.2|i586||OSS|4e09170d94829701fe94857831aac14bf970f725| 2015-02-08 20:42:21|install|kdebase4-wallpaper-default|14.12.0-1.1|noarch||OSS|e2f050c13486be2125f8016e7a9002fd4b191308| 2015-02-08 21:08:48|install|kdebase4-runtime|14.12.1-1.2|i586||OSS|5aed7863e2a28b5e062ed3695d61d3a67f913541| 2015-02-08 21:09:00|install|kdebase4-artwork|14.12.1-1.1|noarch||OSS|8c8727bbcb1995ecac4511e9b6dbf17706df79ba| 2015-02-08 21:09:10|install|kdebase4-nsplugin|14.12.1-1.3|i586||OSS|fe3e6adb25f47ffdde5bae06ba707e607259cd46| 2015-02-08 21:09:11|install|kdebase4-libkonq|14.12.1-1.3|i586||OSS|2a8750f9b4b9b0938d774a62d9eabbbbe44ae4bc| 2015-02-08 21:09:16|install|kdebase4-workspace-branding-upstream|4.11.15-1.2|i586||OSS|516502646836f56d5d93f5615b639c2738104ea9| 2015-02-08 21:09:21|install|kdebase4-workspace-libs|4.11.15-1.2|i586||OSS|63a7ab3fd954c2081f946a5755b42d29f54c738f| 2015-02-08 21:09:26|install|kdebase4-workspace-ksysguardd|4.11.15-1.2|i586||OSS|55d36dbc64b50cb5976a68c52f768480d5cfe4fd| 2015-02-08 21:09:32|install|kdebase4-workspace-addons|4.11.15-1.2|i586||OSS|52e5e4c388c5e8e5c4db95beb1a7a7e7e4cb984d| 2015-02-08 21:09:34|install|kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle|4.11.15-1.2|i586||OSS|6ec6f8c9e6588306a30bb300d772f299f0091878| 2015-02-08 21:09:58|install|kdebase4-workspace|4.11.15-1.2|i586||OSS|311e96220eb905f008a7b3efd36b0b6b3901a886| 2015-02-08 21:10:04|install|kdebase4-session|4.12-5.1|noarch||OSS|4ca27a0210646d15b8f34801f9d67eb02f2c6725| 2015-02-08 21:10:05|install|kdebase4-openSUSE|13.2-6.62|i586||OSS|d105e7cc379f6f9654be49fb6a60fae55b12b94c| 2015-09-11 05:04:23|install|kdebase4-runtime-branding-upstream|15.04.3-1.1|i586||OSS|f27a13a2ba953f7164173f73331f33325bdd6bc2| 2015-09-11 05:09:03|install|kdebase4-wallpaper-default|15.04.3-1.1|noarch||OSS|d0a71fb5f2ac904e7c84e3caa0500bdca82ed8c1| 2015-09-11 05:52:54|install|kdebase4-runtime|15.04.3-1.1|i586||OSS|60b43107432ca16942be6755e05b1a486fbe2829| 2015-09-11 05:53:05|install|kdebase4-artwork|15.04.3-1.1|noarch||OSS|1774728e5cd036d47afcb55382cb0beff0019547| 2015-09-11 05:53:14|install|kdebase4-nsplugin|15.04.3-1.1|i586||OSS|64e3eaf4bc474e2f18831289426529db458efbbe| 2015-09-11 05:53:17|install|kdebase4-libkonq|15.04.3-1.1|i586||OSS|d8a0dd790e2bf334cce12d34927d1463d2d258af| 2015-09-11 05:53:33|install|kdebase4-workspace-branding-upstream|4.11.21-2.1|i586||OSS|ad90bb6d29d145a78bbb71cf3e73536b87ec4d38| 2015-09-11 05:53:44|install|kdebase4-workspace-libs|4.11.21-2.1|i586||OSS|83aa22813af50597af9fa984a7f73acaa8353e8e| 2015-09-11 05:53:52|install|kdebase4-workspace-ksysguardd|4.11.21-2.1|i586||OSS|94ec6f45b4af490e540df0c3bf9b681415684114| 2015-09-11 05:53:59|install|kdebase4-workspace-addons|4.11.21-2.1|i586||OSS|ebcd6586cff155792c2b25cd97dfa6c27944b9c9| 2015-09-11 05:54:03|install|kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle|4.11.21-2.1|i586||OSS|eae7813042b77b3687fb597e4be8f245b52edbb1| 2015-09-11 05:54:33|install|kdebase4-workspace|4.11.21-2.1|i586||OSS|987c14b74c59827444d19663c223a91fd615aabf| 2015-09-11 05:54:53|install|kdebase4-openSUSE|13.2-6.67|i586||OSS|9865188db053357d12bcf7a1986aa58027038faf|
Of course if you configured a window decoration from kdeartworks4-decorations, you need to have that installed too.
Until Breeze, I rarely changed decorations from defaults. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 11. September 2015, 13:20:27 schrieb Felix Miata:
The available xsessions are irrelevant. If kde-plasma.desktop were missing, you couldn't log in to KDE at all (it wouldn't even be listed at the login screen).
I haven't seen a greeter on this installation since too long ago to remember. I start in multi-user.target and run startx on most test installations.
Then why did you list the installed xsession files?
Maybe the following can help you figure out, if you care, why before installing kdeartwork4-decorations there were no decorations in host gx151's, or installations mentioned upthread, plasma session: No. I'm not clairvoyant. AFAICS, you had kwin installed and it never was uninstalled.
Maybe an incompatible mix of package versions then, causing kwin to crash. What else did get installed or updated when you installed kdeartwork4- decorations? What window decoration do you have actually configured? grep -i pluginlib ~/.kde4/share/config/kwinrc
Of course if you configured a window decoration from kdeartworks4-decorations, you need to have that installed too.
Until Breeze, I rarely changed decorations from defaults.
Then you don't need kdeartwork4-decorations. It is not even installed by default in 13.2 when doing a full, standard, KDE(4) installation. I don't have it installed here, and my KDE4 works fine. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-11 19:37 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
I haven't seen a greeter on this installation since too long ago to remember. I start in multi-user.target and run startx on most test installations.
Then why did you list the installed xsession files?
Something you wrote upthread on 2015-09-04 15:08 (UTC+0200) suggested I might have been using some other session than some plasma, while I was at that time looking at an Elarun themed desktop.
Maybe the following can help you figure out, if you care, why before installing kdeartwork4-decorations there were no decorations in host gx151's, or installations mentioned upthread, plasma session:
No. I'm not clairvoyant. AFAICS, you had kwin installed and it never was uninstalled.
Seems so.
Maybe an incompatible mix of package versions then,
Must be a repeatable mix, as I found an apparently identical problem on at least 3 different installations in recent days, and more over a less recent period.
causing kwin to crash.
I don't remember seeing signs of crashing. .xsession-errors has no time stamps. IIRC, it any more only contains last session, with decorations. Here it is from t2240 anyway: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/Factory/xsession-errors-t2240-ostw
What else did get installed or updated when you installed kdeartwork4- decorations?
Literally everything shortly preceded it on host t2240 (instigator of this thread). Here's the 150k tail of its /var/log/zypp/history: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/Factory/zyphistory-t2240-ostw.txt
What window decoration do you have actually configured? grep -i pluginlib ~/.kde4/share/config/kwinrc
Null output on host t2240. Host gx151 of previous thread will be offline for near future. TBD which other hosts produced this problem. I think it/they got subsequent updates, thwarting purposeful discovery, and apparently I left that/those hostname(s) out of this thread.
Of course if you configured a window decoration from kdeartworks4-decorations, you need to have that installed too.
Until Breeze, I rarely changed decorations from defaults.
Then you don't need kdeartwork4-decorations.
Until I installed it, there were no window decorations subseqent to last zypper up. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-06 13:27 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
Again, it looks like broken dependency, something that worked prior to zypper up that no longer would until ascertaining what got lost, what's involved to recover and doing whatever is required.
That's not an answer to my question.
I already told you what package you need for Plasma 5.
For KDE4 the situation is as follows: As I already wrote, kdeartwork4-desktopthemes is not needed and totally unrelated to the window decorations.
kdeartwork4-decorations does contain (additional, optional) window decorations, but it is not needed either (unless you configured kwin to use one of those). It's not even installed in a standard 13.2 KDE(4) installation.
The default window decoration ("Oxygen") is in kdebase4-workspace- liboxygenstyle. (and KDE3's default "Plastik" is even part of the kwin package itself) kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle is *required* by kwin, so you cannot really end up without it (unless you break dependencies). The problem you probably had/have IMHO, is that kwin itself is not required by anything but the KDE4 pattern (which I think does not exist any more in Tumbleweed). It is only recommended by kdebase4-workspace (which contains the desktop). So you probably (or quite certainly I think) didn't even have kwin, the KDE4 window manager, installed, which of course means *no* window decorations (and no managed windows at all).
I'm not sure this can be regarded as bug or wrong dependencies though, as the KDE4 desktop can also be used with a different window manager. And as the KDE4 desktop is not supported at all in Tumbleweed any more, you are on your own there, in particular if you prevent the installation of recommended packages.
I may have stumbled onto a clue as to what has been going on. On host a-865, last updated about 3 months ago, and with both KDE3 and KDE4 installed, I did a zypper up with most KDE4 packages locked. When up finished I opened what I thought would a KDE3 session with startx, and got a normal looking KDE4 Elarun session, with Konsole>3 restored from previous session. I quit that session, started KDM3/graphical.target, and opened a KDE3 session, with Konsole3 restored. That too seemed normal. I unlocked most KDE4 packages, did zypper up, quit the session, and started a KDE4 session. That opened a very different Konsole>3, ugly black background instead of remembering I had it previously configured white, and with no window decorations. After fixing background I hit Alt-F4, mistakenly thinking it was the move window hotkey, which closed Konsole>3. On reopening Konsole>3 from the menu, it had window decorations. Normal procedure here is to rarely close any Konsole session purposely. All Konsole sessions lacking decorations in this thread, until this, were auto reopened on session start. I restarted last host with this behavior, t2240, zypper rm kdeartwork4, startx, expecting Konsole>3 to auto reopen, with decorations, but it didn't auto reopen. It did open from menu, with decorations. On session exit and reopen, again Konsole>3 failed to auto reopen, so here apparently is yet another feature loss in KDE>3, at least in TW. Fedora 23's current 15.04.03/5.13.0/5.4.0 does auto reopen Konsole on session start. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata composed on 2015-09-12 14:46 (UTC-0400):
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-09-06 13:27 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
Again, it looks like broken dependency, something that worked prior to zypper up that no longer would until ascertaining what got lost, what's involved to recover and doing whatever is required.
That's not an answer to my question.
I already told you what package you need for Plasma 5.
For KDE4 the situation is as follows: As I already wrote, kdeartwork4-desktopthemes is not needed and totally unrelated to the window decorations.
kdeartwork4-decorations does contain (additional, optional) window decorations, but it is not needed either (unless you configured kwin to use one of those). It's not even installed in a standard 13.2 KDE(4) installation.
The default window decoration ("Oxygen") is in kdebase4-workspace- liboxygenstyle. (and KDE3's default "Plastik" is even part of the kwin package itself) kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle is *required* by kwin, so you cannot really end up without it (unless you break dependencies). The problem you probably had/have IMHO, is that kwin itself is not required by anything but the KDE4 pattern (which I think does not exist any more in Tumbleweed). It is only recommended by kdebase4-workspace (which contains the desktop). So you probably (or quite certainly I think) didn't even have kwin, the KDE4 window manager, installed, which of course means *no* window decorations (and no managed windows at all).
I'm not sure this can be regarded as bug or wrong dependencies though, as the KDE4 desktop can also be used with a different window manager. And as the KDE4 desktop is not supported at all in Tumbleweed any more, you are on your own there, in particular if you prevent the installation of recommended packages.
I may have stumbled onto a clue as to what has been going on. On host a-865, last updated about 3 months ago, and with both KDE3 and KDE4 installed, I did a zypper up with most KDE4 packages locked. When up finished I opened what I thought would a KDE3 session with startx, and got a normal looking KDE4 Elarun session, with Konsole>3 restored from previous session. I quit that session, started KDM3/graphical.target, and opened a KDE3 session, with Konsole3 restored. That too seemed normal. I unlocked most KDE4 packages, did zypper up, quit the session, and started a KDE4 session. That opened a very different Konsole>3, ugly black background instead of remembering I had it previously configured white, and with no window decorations. After fixing background I hit Alt-F4, mistakenly thinking it was the move window hotkey, which closed Konsole>3. On reopening Konsole>3 from the menu, it had window decorations.
Normal procedure here is to rarely close any Konsole session purposely. All Konsole sessions lacking decorations in this thread, until this, were auto reopened on session start.
I restarted last host with this behavior, t2240, zypper rm kdeartwork4, startx, expecting Konsole>3 to auto reopen, with decorations, but it didn't auto reopen. It did open from menu, with decorations.
On session exit and reopen, again Konsole>3 failed to auto reopen, so here apparently is yet another feature loss in KDE>3, at least in TW. Fedora 23's current 15.04.03/5.13.0/5.4.0 does auto reopen Konsole on session start.
On host hs80e, which acted dead in June and had been left out of testing rotation since, until now, and had its TW/KDE4 updated last about 7 months ago, I did a zypper up on it with kde-oxygen-fonts and breeze* locked. Konsole on first Plasma session subsequently (auto-) started came up without decorations. I quickly exited that session without doing anything else first, and immediately started another. Konsole did not auto-start, but when started, included decorations! :-p So, it's clear that kdeartwork4-decorations is indeed not required. Nevertheless, unless something changes about the way KDE4 gets upgraded from, I would expect I'm unlikely to be the only one ever to become puzzled by similar inexplicably temporary decorations absence. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
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