July 2008 - openSUSE GNOME - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [opensuse-gnome] Go Elsewhere?
by Alberto Passalacqua 05 Aug '08

05 Aug '08

Hello, >There is indeed an issue of anti-DE at times in #suse, there are times >when it is GNOME that gets it, sometimes it's XFCE that cops a bucket >full of buck shot. On the odd occasion I have seen KDE attract the >swarm of locusts. As people have said, this is slowly increasing; so >much so that I am copying the board and Zonker in to ensure that they >are aware of the issue, and hopefully they can advise and assist us in >how best to educate everyone. At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure >that there is a lot of things in KDE that none of us know. I agree there is some anti-GNOME behaviour in #suse, but I don't see it increasing at all. In the past, when I joined the community some years ago, it was a lot more evident. At those times it was really happening that systematically all GNOME users were instructed to use KDE. Today it's not that way anymore, even if there still is some tendency to do that. I don't think it is fair, but I think there are some reasons for that, and I will try to explain commenting the following lines. >The issue of openSUSE's GNOME release being inferior to other distros >is certainly a concern, and I think it is up to the GNOME team (both >Novell employees and community militia ;-) ) to rectify with mass >marketing. This is exactly the consideration I expected and I have heard in years of being around the GNOME team and the GNOME channel on IRC, and it is one of the reasons why I gave up in trying to do something for GNOME in openSUSE. Everything is considered a marketing problem, when it is actually, and quite evidently from a user point of view, a software quality problem. First release a state of the art GNOME, then market it. Before it's just premature and counterproductive. You are already experiencing that. I will sum up the main problems I think contributed to this situation about DE's in openSUSE: - GNOME is constantly released in a untested "beta state" in the final release of openSUSE, with evident bugs (read memory leaks, not working apps). Patches to these issues are released after long time, leaving the user with problems. This gives the sensation that the team considers openSUSE simply as a beta product to experiment with, where the last idea and the last application can be pushed, while the KDE team doesn't do that. Examples: yast-gtk, PulseAudio, package-kit, tasque, main-menu (in 10.3 it was a disaster with the memory leak, and people doesn't forget so quickly). - GNOME is bloated in openSUSE, causing major performance issues compared to other distributions (see Fedora). - Problems are patched too slowly compared to other DE's. It takes months or almost a release cycle to have (if ever) the major bugs fixed, while other distributions do this in about one month. One clear example are Fedora and Ubuntu: they released with PulseAudio in a clearly worse state than openSUSE, yet they fixed it quickly. OpenSUSE has some minor problems and are almost all still there. >I think a good spate of education for the diehard users of other DEs >would be a good start, lets try and do something fun and informative >for all of us. Education and information are useful if there is a base to build them upon. And that base has to be a quality release. I saw improvements from 10.3 to 11.0, that's evident, and I'm pleased of that. But we still are not at the level of RH/Fedora, and the reasons are not clear. The GNOME team used all the possible excuses that might justify the difference in quality between GNOME and KDE, and GNOME in openSUSE/GNOME in other distributions. It is time to stop hiding behind the excuse that SuSE was a KDE-centric distribution, and that it takes time (the typical "wait for next release and see!") to have a good GNOME implementation, because the team had a whole release cycle (10.x) to do that. It missed the opportunity because instead of preparing a solid base and then adding features simply skipped the first step, hoping to fix the problems as they come out. It doesn't work that way on the long run. Just my two cents. Alberto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-gnome] [PATCH] gnome-settings-daemon: add apport monitoring
by Nikolay Derkach 04 Aug '08

04 Aug '08

Hi, I would like to suggest a patch that adds Apport[1] monitoring to gnome-settings-daemon. The purpose of the patch is to monitor a directory (/var/crash) for incoming Apport crash reports and run a reporting tool (apport-gtk). I implemented this functionality as a gnome-settings-daemon plugin. This patch is just a draft since it has some issues. Please help me to solve those: - I built packages with modified gnome-settings-daemon [2], but for some reason this patched daemon doesn't work as supposed. Although, I tested gsd-apport-manager with a testcase included in my patch and it worked fine. - Does GIO has something similar to inotify's CLOSE_WRITE monitor? I need GIO to handler file-closed-after-write events. As for now I ended up with G_FILE_MONITOR_EVENT_ATTRIBUTE_CHANGED but it's just not fine to lauch crash checking tool several times. - Does GTK has any out-of-the-box applet notifying methods? I need something similar to libnotify, but I don't think it's worth adding one more dependency to gsd. Hopefully I haven't missed something and I'll appreciate any feedback. [1] http://en.opensuse.org/Interactive_Crash_Analysis https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport [2] http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/nderkach:/branches:/home:/r… -- Regards, Nikolay Derkach

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[opensuse-gnome] go elsewhere
by Casual J. Programmer 01 Aug '08

01 Aug '08

Hi all, while I think that the discussion has elements that are partly paranoid, I feel it might be worthwhile to put the issue on one of the upcoming meetings agenda. I'd like to know what the differences in GNOME among distributions might be, and if and how these differences are perceived by the audiences. Furthermore I'd like Vuntz's opinion on the topic, as he should have a pretty good picture from his upstream background. Have a lot of fun... Casual P.S. I didn't chose openSuSE for the desktop, I decided on GNOME for the heck of it and independently found openSuSE the distribution to go with for various reasons...

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[opensuse-gnome] openSUSE GNOME meeting (2008/07/31)
by Rodrigo Moya 31 Jul '08

31 Jul '08

Helping hands * This week multiscreen * Next week inkscape * Upcoming topics: f-spot openSUSE tutorials for GNOME * http://opensuse-tutorials.com * Will have RSS feeds, with categories and tags for easy searching * Looking for people to submit tutorials * #os-T IRC channel to submit ideas, talk, etc 11.0 updates * gnome-web-photo submitted * General updates are blocked by anja/coolo right now * gvfs updates not submitted yet * pulseaudio updates (pavucontrol/libesd) not submitted yet Feature review * Not much progress unfortunately, see feature update Feature update * system-config-printer: + packaged in home:vunts:factory-playground, to replace gnome-cups-manager + with (in progress) PolicyKit integration to add/remove printers without the root password * PulseAudio: + being integrated into gnome 2.24/2.26 (new volume control, xdg sound theme support). glitc-free branch is now in released 0.9.11 which is in FACTORY now * GDM: + Preliminary new GDM package submitted + A couple of bugs need to be fixed + New upstream version to be released soon * Multiscreen: + Tomorrow helping hands episode about multiscreen (15:30 UTC) * NetworkManager: + ModemManager project announced today: - http://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2008-July/msg00274.html - It's the modem driving code in NM moved out of process to a dbus system activated service - With loadable plugins support for nonstandard cards and operations - Signal quality monitoring - Modules to support other modems can be written by implementing the DBus API * PackageKit: + 0.2.3 submitted to FACTORY, although a bit broken * Main menu: + Getting bug fixes steadily -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-gnome] Upcoming #opensuse-gnome Meeting 2008/07/31 16:00 UTC ( please check times for your location thoroughly )
by Casual J. Programmer 30 Jul '08

30 Jul '08

Hi all GNOME addicts, The next openSUSE-GNOME project meeting will take place at the official #opensuse-gnome IRC channel on freenode (irc://irc.freenode.net/openSUSE-gnome) on upcoming Thursday: 2008/07/31 16:00 UTC (18:00 CEST) For an overview what time this is in different timezones, use: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=31&month=07&year=2… This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE-GNOME. Please review your topics on the meeting wiki page at: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Meetings/20080731 as soon as possible. For general info about our IRC meetings read: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/About For a general technical introduction to IRC (Internet Relay Chat) see http://www.irchelp.org/ ;(not affiliated with openSUSE) or enter "IRC help" into your preferred search engine. The network we use is freenode - for more information on this, including how to find a server, visit http://freenode.net/;(not affiliated with openSUSE either). Have a lot of fun .. Casual J. Programmer (on behalf of the openSUSE-GNOME team)

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[opensuse-gnome] Next Helping Hands Session: Multi-Screening
by Bryen 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

Do you want to connect two monitors to your computer? Or perhaps you have a laptop and you'd like to hook up a projector to it? Find out how to make it work at our next Helping Hands session, presented to you by Federico Mena Quintero. This coming Friday, August 1, 2008 at 15:30 UTC in the #opensuse-gnome IRC channel on the Freenode network. The Helping Hands project is a weekly presentation series designed to introduce you to all the cool things you can do on openSUSE. Past presentations have included general GNOME Tips and Tricks, OpenOffice, and Evolution. And we have many more exciting events just around the corner. If you'd like to volunteer to be a Helping Hands presenter on your favorite topic or a coordinator/organizer, please feel free to contact me. Thanks and see you all on Friday! Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-gnome] GNOME:GTK projects created
by Stanislav Brabec 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

Hallo. I have created two new experimental projects: GNOME:GTK:STABLE GNOME:GTK:Factory They contain the latest stable packages (newer than 11.0) and latest Factory packages. They are intended to become primary gtk+ repositories in the future. They are intended for build of packages, which need it (e. g. gimp-unstable). Later they may be used for building of GNOME:STABLE. However 100% of builds succeeded, for <= 10.2 these packages cannot be used in rebuilds due to libtool problem. I think that splitting of GNOME:STABLE in the same way would be a good idea. Large repositories with lots of introduced dependencies are hard to maintain and cause unexpected breakages of other packages. Using of repo path and base repo features would help to create easy to install repositories without a lot of unneeded packages. People can then control their rolling updates better. As I wrote before, I would like to see: GNOME:GTK:STABLE based on openSUSE:* GNOME:GTK:Factory based on openSUSE:* GNOME:STABLE (packages with GNOME release cycle) based on GNOME:GTK:STABLE GNOME:Factory (packages with GNOME release cycle) based on GNOME:GTK:Factory GNOME:Applications (Factory snapshot of applications) based on GNOME:STABLE (or GNOME:Factory if it will be required) GNOME:Community (packages not connected with Factory) based on any repository multimedia:gstreamer based on GNOME:GTK:STABLE and openSUSE:* GNOME:rebuilds (package copies for <= 10.2 just for rebuild with packages in a new prefix.) based on GNOME:STABLE and maybe GNOME:GNOME++, GNOME:GALAGO... -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec(a)suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 966, +49 911 740538747 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-gnome] Go Elsewhere?
by Bryen 28 Jul '08

28 Jul '08

Twice this past weekend, I've come across people in #suse saying "If you want to use GNOME" go to another distro. Each time I confronted them, they have not been able to back up their statement. Both times, it was an entirely different person mentioning it. I'm concerned with how this is happening. Twice in one weekend is a little too close for comfort for me. Is this a growing notion among non-GNOME users? Is there FUD being spread about openSUSE-GNOME? I don't know. But we should be aware that it is happening and try to nip it in the bud when possible. Allowing this to be a widespread belief is not in anyone at openSUSE's best interests, no matter how false this premise is. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-gnome] Pattern Review - 11.1
by Magnus Boman 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

Hello, I've created http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Pattern_Review/11.1 which, if I didn't mess it up to much, shows what GNOME packages we have on the LiveCD. Please review and add comments as appropriate. Also, if you find any errors on the page, please let me know. Thanks, Magnus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-gnome] Re: [opensuse-packaging] Menu handling
by Vincent Untz 25 Jul '08

25 Jul '08

Hi, Moving part of this thread to opensuse-gnome. Le mercredi 23 avril 2008, à 10:50 +0200, Vincent Untz a écrit : > Le lundi 21 avril 2008, à 21:37 +0200, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek a écrit : > > Hi, > > > > Many years ago, SuSE used selfmade menu. Now, according to > > freedesktop.org's specs and implementations in software there's no need. > > > > Upstream provides .desktop files, mostly well translated. > > > > By creating .desktop files, you're reinventing the wheel, making SUSE's > > menu entries inconsistent with other distros, and messing in menu. > > > > You may ask "what's that mess?". > > > > The mess is: > > * more categories than entries in those categories > > * entries duplication > > * wrong categories set (Liferea is RSS aggregator, not newsgroups > > client/whatever, same applies for Miro) > > * configuration apps not in GNOME's control center but in usual > > "Applications" menu and/or application browser > > > > openSUSE should stop that. Apps already provide .desktop files, as said > > before. desktop-file-install should be used to install them (probably > > with --vendor and --delete original as schema). > > > > Screenshots from GNOME: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mtf3lw > > I'll probably have to find better host for these screenshots. > > Tell me, when this doesn't work. > > That's most probably because of the menu files that are used. We have > applications.menu, applications.menu.kde and applications.menu.gnome -- > I'm not sure all GNOME applications use applications.menu.gnome (and > looking at this file, it seems outdated). So we can fix it in the > packaging of gnome-menus, I believe. Two questions here: + applications.menu.gnome seems to be outdated. Can we kill it/replace it/do whatever I want with it? + I'd really love to use upstream applications.menu for GNOME. It's much much cleaner. Really. This would make the menu bar and upstream main menu more usable. But I don't know what's the impact on the application browser. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help(a)opensuse.org

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