On 01/28/2011 03:05 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

jdd wrote:

...

* The legal form of the foundation is to be a German voluntary association (wikipedia:Eingetragener_Verein).

Sounds good. I think this is the right choice.

Now according to wikipedia [1] again : "The Civil Code of Germany contains different regulations for registered non-profit and for-profit associations regarded as juristic persons ("Vereine", articles 21–79) on the one hand and for not necessarily registered associations by contract ("Gesellschaften", articles 705–740) on the other hand." So before I can put an opinion would it be possible to have a summary of these articles in plain english ;as laws, regulations are written with specific articalutaion that makes it harder for the layperson to understand, that is to my understanding the case in all languages and German is no exception. Togan 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eingetragener_Verein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On 01/28/2011 01:52 PM, jdd wrote:

* The legal form of the foundation is to be a German voluntary association (wikipedia:Eingetragener_Verein).

I understand very well that this is much more handy than any other system, given where most suse fellows are located

Just for the record. Having a German e.V. is the result of the boards discussions. The argumentation for this is that the majority of contributors to our project is German (European). We have discussed this among ourselves but also have asked people with experience with FOSS foundations (KDE, GNOME, the people on the freedesktop foundations list like Dave Neary or Bradley M. Kuhn) and they also told us that if we want a working foundation for our project that it better be in the country with the most contributors.

but I'm not sure it's the better way to solve problems. among others Linux problems are legal problems (see restricted formats). It was said (I don't know if it's true) that the location of Canonical on the Man island is one of the reason ubuntu is more easy to deal with.

Can you be a bit more specific what you mean by "legal problems"? Are you talking about problems with problematic licensed or patented software like the various implementations of multimedia codecs, binary kernel modules and things like these? If you are talking about this problem then you won't solve it by the location of the foundation. This will always be a matter of risk assessment. Because you will engage in something where the law is way behind reality and the law is constantly tested in court. For a volunteer organization the only outcome of such a risk assessment can be to stay as far away as possible from this. The only real question you have to ask yourself is this: Do you want to be part of an foundation that is in constant legal battle over software patents and licenses? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Togan Muftuoglu wrote:

On 01/28/2011 03:05 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

jdd wrote:

...

* The legal form of the foundation is to be a German voluntary association (wikipedia:Eingetragener_Verein).

Sounds good.  I think this is the right choice.

Now according to wikipedia [1] again :

"The Civil Code of Germany contains different regulations for registered non-profit and for-profit associations regarded as juristic persons ("Vereine", articles 21–79) on the one hand and for not necessarily registered associations by contract ("Gesellschaften", articles 705–740) on the other hand."

So before I can put an opinion would it be possible to have a summary of these articles in plain english ;as laws, regulations are written with specific articalutaion that makes it harder for the layperson to understand, that is to my understanding the case in all languages and German is no exception.

The wikipedia entry is probably a good place to start, but you'll have to ask Google to translate: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eingetragener_Verein One question I have is - will it be possible to request/record that the eV will use English as the primary language?   -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.5°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Hey, On 01/28/2011 03:58 PM, jdd wrote:

Le 28/01/2011 15:40, Togan Muftuoglu a écrit :

...

So before I can put an opinion would it be possible to have a summary of these articles in plain english ;as laws, regulations are written with specific articalutaion that makes it harder for the layperson to understand, that is to my understanding the case in all languages and German is no exception.

so two problems:

* is a german organisation fitted to receive donations (including from other countries)

Yes that is no problem at all. The only "problem" is about what the people who give donations can get out of it. For instance if the donor can tax-deduct his donation. There are no international laws about this so things like these are always limited to the country the foundation is in. But again experience from others is that this does not make a real difference for people who want to give.

* the foundation usual langage will have to be english. How will we manage german?

The only situation where that matters is with official documents that we have to produce (by-laws, policies and procedures, reports). For this we would need to have translations. This works quite well for KDE for instance. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Le 28/01/2011 16:28, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :

Hey,

On 01/28/2011 03:58 PM, jdd wrote:

...

Le 28/01/2011 15:40, Togan Muftuoglu a écrit :

...

So before I can put an opinion would it be possible to have a summary of these articles in plain english ;as laws, regulations are written with specific articalutaion that makes it harder for the layperson to understand, that is to my understanding the case in all languages and German is no exception.

so two problems:

* is a german organisation fitted to receive donations (including from other countries)

Yes that is no problem at all. The only "problem" is about what the people who give donations can get out of it. For instance if the donor can tax-deduct his donation. There are no international laws about this so things like these are always limited to the country the foundation is in. But again experience from others is that this does not make a real difference for people who want to give.

...

* the foundation usual langage will have to be english. How will we manage german?

The only situation where that matters is with official documents that we have to produce (by-laws, policies and procedures, reports). For this we would need to have translations. This works quite well for KDE for instance.

Henne

if so, this solve the question for me. will wait some time (before closing) to give anybody time to answer... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Le 28/01/2011 17:03, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :

The scope is about the legal form/location of the openSUSE Foundation. Not about solving problems distributing a free software OS brings with it.

seems related... Do somebody have real of why Ubuntu works the way it do, is it really related to the Man island location? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

jdd wrote:

Le 28/01/2011 17:03, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :

...

The scope is about the legal form/location of the openSUSE Foundation. Not about solving problems distributing a free software OS brings with it.

seems related... Do somebody have real of why Ubuntu works the way it do, is it really related to the Man island location?

I don't know, but according to wikipedia, Shuttleworth himself lives on the Isle of Man. About the Ubuntu Foundation (the trust fund set up by Shuttleworth), wikipedia doesn't say a lot - it is perhaps interesting to note that there are at least two other Ubuntu Foundations: http://www.ubuntu-foundation.ch/ http://saubuntu.co.za// :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-1.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

On Friday, January 28, 2011 02:46:03 pm jdd wrote:

Le 28/01/2011 21:12, Per Jessen a écrit :

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wikipedia doesn't say a lot - it is perhaps interesting to note that

...

there are at least two other Ubuntu Foundations: yes, it's always possible to create one more if necessary :-)

It can be good idea to pickup donations for "local" associations, but problem is that each organization will have some fixed operational expenses, and we don't really want to split our group, so lesser is better right now. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Le 28/01/2011 16:52, jdd a écrit :

...

...

* is a german organisation fitted to receive donations (including from other countries)

Yes that is no problem at all.

I just noticed that the french law was changed in the 80', to allow association to receive donations. This show how old is my comitment :-). so no problem in France (and probably no in other countries, at least in EU) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday, January 29, 2011 12:44:19 am jdd wrote:

I tried to summarize the discussion on the wiki, however, it's my first attempt to use the wiki since the change, and I don't know if I used an appropriate format (sub page, title capitalisation).

http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Foundation/Topics/Legal_Form

jdd

Moved above page to: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Foundation_legal_form Fixed capitalization (all small letters, except first one and the proper names). Subpages on Portal pages are functional, that should not be used as separate pages, but transcluded (Wikipedia term) to main portal page. In general avoid subpages as they don't offer real browsing help, and make harder to rearrange articles in a different way, or to use them as a part of another similar topic. For working copies use openSUSE namespace. I propose that we use [[openSUSE:Foundation_<topic>]] as a article title, where word "Foundation" is optional, used when needed, and to list all in http://en.opensuse.org/Category:Foundation by adding [[Category:Foundation]] tag at the end of the article. Later we can categorize, change sort order etc. Alternative, instead of openSUSE:Foundation, it would be good to have namespace Foundation, so that articles like Accounting Legal form can go without double prefix. It is openSUSE wiki, and talk is about openSUSE Foundation, so prefix "Foundation:" should suffice. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Le 29/01/2011 07:44, jdd a écrit :

I tried to summarize the discussion on the wiki, however, it's my first attempt to use the wiki since the change, and I don't know if I used an appropriate format (sub page, title capitalisation).

http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Foundation/Topics/Legal_Form

jdd

seems to be here now, and nobody seems to complain on the content jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

...

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On 2/4/2011 at 06:53 AM, in message <4D4C04E5.1010003@dodin.org>, jdd wrote: Le 29/01/2011 07:44, jdd a écrit : I tried to summarize the discussion on the wiki, however, it's my first attempt to use the wiki since the change, and I don't know if I used an appropriate format (sub page, title capitalisation).

http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Foundation/Topics/Legal_Form

jdd

seems to be here now, and nobody seems to complain on the content

I moved some of the text from the portal:Foundation page to this page as it fits with this topic page. -Alan

jdd

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag 06 Februar 2011, 12:45:35 schrieb Togan Muftuoglu:

On 02/05/2011 01:41 AM, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Friday, February 04, 2011 07:53:41 am jdd wrote:

...

...

http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Foundation/Topics/Legal_Form

seems to be here now, and nobody seems to complain on the content

Well I have a sentence where I disagree.

"The board has super-majority to disband the e.V."

I do think the board cannot disband the e.V. only the general assembly can do that. The board can suggest and can/should argue her points yet the final decision is to be made by the general assembly. Thats correct.

§41 Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch (german law) says: § 41 Auflösung des Vereins Der Verein kann durch Beschluss der Mitgliederversammlung aufgelöst werden. Zu dem Beschluss ist eine Mehrheit von drei Vierteln der abgegebenen Stimmen erforderlich, wenn nicht die Satzung ein anderes bestimmt. That means that the verein can be disbanded by 75% of the valid votes of the general assembly. As said, most things like that are ruled out by german laws. regards, Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

jdd wrote:

Le 09/02/2011 17:34, Klaas Freitag a écrit :

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As said, most things like that are ruled out by german laws.

are you sure? in France, these things are only setup by bylaws

He posted a quote from §41 Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch. That's civil law. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org

Le 09/02/2011 22:32, Peter Linnell a écrit :

On 02/09/2011 05:46 PM, jdd wrote:

established by civil law. If you need me to try to translate into French, do not hesitate, but I am an anglophone.

best should to translate to english, we all need to understand that can't read german, but me, at least, can't read german thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help@opensuse.org