Feature changed by: Christian Jäger (eet) Feature #311023, revision 2 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE is continuously outranked by 3 GNOME-based distributions on - distrowatch.com. The ony way to gain popularity seems to me to + distrowatch.com. The only way to re-gain popularity seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the - forefront of GNOME 3 adoption. The fabulous buildservice should make it - quite easy to adopt bleeding-edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the - same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular - SLED. + forefront of GNOME 3 adoption. + The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- + edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 + interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) Feature #311023, revision 4 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... + Discussion: + #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) + Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have + KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 + release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the + forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME + 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it + more visibility. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Christian Jäger (eet) Feature #311023, revision 6 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... Discussion: #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it more visibility. + #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2010-12-29 21:23:50) (reply to #1) + Well, yes, this request really is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think we + must keep a constant gauge on how many openSUSE users actually support + the unilateral KDE-centredness. Because, as a matter of fact, the move + to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly + unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which + was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a + year or so back. + So, let us vote constantly in one or the other way on which desktop + environment we should keep up front. And when we finally have enough of + this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of + olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is + the way it should be... #2: Ramon Juan Canto Serra (deabru) (2010-12-29 17:09:43) GNOME is a good desktop, as KDE is. I think KDE gives us some diferenciation from other distros. And most openSUSE users prefer it. No reason to change default desktop selection for me. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) Feature #311023, revision 8 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... Discussion: #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it more visibility. #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2010-12-29 21:23:50) (reply to #1) Well, yes, this request really is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think we must keep a constant gauge on how many openSUSE users actually support the unilateral KDE-centredness. Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back. So, let us vote constantly in one or the other way on which desktop environment we should keep up front. And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be... #2: Ramon Juan Canto Serra (deabru) (2010-12-29 17:09:43) GNOME is a good desktop, as KDE is. I think KDE gives us some diferenciation from other distros. And most openSUSE users prefer it. No reason to change default desktop selection for me. #4: Alex Bars (alexdbars) (2010-12-30 01:29:22) (reply to #2) KDE 4 > KDE 3 > Windows > Gnome 2 > Gnome 3 \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ + #5: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:05:33) (reply to #4) + On pluto ? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Jedi Beeftrix (Jedibeeftrix) Feature #311023, revision 11 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... Discussion: #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it more visibility. #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2010-12-29 21:23:50) (reply to #1) Well, yes, this request really is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think we must keep a constant gauge on how many openSUSE users actually support the unilateral KDE-centredness. Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back. So, let us vote constantly in one or the other way on which desktop environment we should keep up front. And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be... #2: Ramon Juan Canto Serra (deabru) (2010-12-29 17:09:43) GNOME is a good desktop, as KDE is. I think KDE gives us some diferenciation from other distros. And most openSUSE users prefer it. No reason to change default desktop selection for me. #4: Alex Bars (alexdbars) (2010-12-30 01:29:22) (reply to #2) KDE 4 > KDE 3 > Windows > Gnome 2 > Gnome 3 \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ #5: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:05:33) (reply to #4) On pluto ? #6: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:47:32) My position regarding this issue is purely strategical, and hope people can understand why such position is taken my side... As I see things: 1. openSUSE 11.4 will be the last and greatest GNOME2 distribution. Let's focus on that. 2. openSUSE 11.3 provided a good GNOME2.32 software repository. The GNOME team hasn't failed in providing users the required support and made outstanding efforts in fixing stuff and working out an easy solution for users who wanted bleeding edge. This seems the way that will happen on 11.4, we ship 2.32 by default (at the peak of it's maturity and stability), which is also a more Universal choice, since we're not cutting users down based on proprietary 3D support which we can't really control in full extent. This sounds a good option. 3. I don't see a valid reason for reducing GNOME3 as some people are doing. openSUSE offers one of best, if not the best GNOME implementations! Why is our marketing neglecting this? And furthermore... Do you really think it's cool to make such statements that might have a negative impact on GNOME contributors? Before attacking GNOME, try to respect those people which like GNOME and that are also members/users of the community... take 10 minutes of you time and sprint 7 laps around your place while repeating to yourself: "openSUSE isn't just KDE". Though I don't really find offensive for openSUSE to provide different positioning by being a 'KDE distro', I find very negative that it generates way too much ranting between KDE and GNOME users. 3000 years ago Sun Tzu wrote that in order to conquer, first we needed to split the enemy... curiously, when our main strength should be in union, we seem to be splitting ourselves in futile wars between KDE and GNOME... I'm sure such attitudes only make only make us strong (see the irony?). + #7: Jedi Beeftrix (jedibeeftrix) (2011-01-02 12:42:41) + "Make GNOME 3 default" + lol. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Kjetil Kilhavn (kjetil_kilhavn) Feature #311023, revision 13 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... Discussion: #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it more visibility. #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2010-12-29 21:23:50) (reply to #1) Well, yes, this request really is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think we must keep a constant gauge on how many openSUSE users actually support the unilateral KDE-centredness. Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back. So, let us vote constantly in one or the other way on which desktop environment we should keep up front. And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be... + #9: Kjetil Kilhavn (kjetil_kilhavn) (2011-01-05 00:37:25) (reply to + #3) + Having no default does *not* make sense to a new user. This was the main + reason for selecting a default as far as I know - and it is a reason + which makes sense. Most users prefer to get started using their (new or + old) computer with their new operating system. Those who prefer control + will already have investigated the possibilities and have the option of + *easily* changing the default choice. However, if you haven't already + investigated KDE and Gnome to make up your mind, install time is + certainly not the right time to start that learning process. + So, no matter what the default is, it is better to have a default than + to not have a default. This applies to desktop environment, browser, e- + mail client, word processor and so on. #2: Ramon Juan Canto Serra (deabru) (2010-12-29 17:09:43) GNOME is a good desktop, as KDE is. I think KDE gives us some diferenciation from other distros. And most openSUSE users prefer it. No reason to change default desktop selection for me. #4: Alex Bars (alexdbars) (2010-12-30 01:29:22) (reply to #2) KDE 4 > KDE 3 > Windows > Gnome 2 > Gnome 3 \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ #5: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:05:33) (reply to #4) On pluto ? #6: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:47:32) My position regarding this issue is purely strategical, and hope people can understand why such position is taken my side... As I see things: 1. openSUSE 11.4 will be the last and greatest GNOME2 distribution. Let's focus on that. 2. openSUSE 11.3 provided a good GNOME2.32 software repository. The GNOME team hasn't failed in providing users the required support and made outstanding efforts in fixing stuff and working out an easy solution for users who wanted bleeding edge. This seems the way that will happen on 11.4, we ship 2.32 by default (at the peak of it's maturity and stability), which is also a more Universal choice, since we're not cutting users down based on proprietary 3D support which we can't really control in full extent. This sounds a good option. 3. I don't see a valid reason for reducing GNOME3 as some people are doing. openSUSE offers one of best, if not the best GNOME implementations! Why is our marketing neglecting this? And furthermore... Do you really think it's cool to make such statements that might have a negative impact on GNOME contributors? Before attacking GNOME, try to respect those people which like GNOME and that are also members/users of the community... take 10 minutes of you time and sprint 7 laps around your place while repeating to yourself: "openSUSE isn't just KDE". Though I don't really find offensive for openSUSE to provide different positioning by being a 'KDE distro', I find very negative that it generates way too much ranting between KDE and GNOME users. 3000 years ago Sun Tzu wrote that in order to conquer, first we needed to split the enemy... curiously, when our main strength should be in union, we seem to be splitting ourselves in futile wars between KDE and GNOME... I'm sure such attitudes only make only make us strong (see the irony?). #7: Jedi Beeftrix (jedibeeftrix) (2011-01-02 12:42:41) "Make GNOME 3 default" lol. #8: Toran Korshnah (torank) (2011-01-04 03:02:53) There was a review comparing the major Linux distros. OpsenSuSE was selected as the best KDE-distro. Ubuntu as the best GNOME-distro. Yast was praised as well. Pesonally I use LXDE with my SuSE. The best is to offer choice to the user, as every user is different. I prefer clean code, in which BSD is so good. But if you ask me, a big feature request would be the support for GPS-devices like TomTom, Mio etc... No, to me clean code and hardware-support is essential. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Jose Ricardo De Leon Solis (derhundchen) Feature #311023, revision 16 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... Discussion: #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it more visibility. #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2010-12-29 21:23:50) (reply to #1) Well, yes, this request really is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think we must keep a constant gauge on how many openSUSE users actually support the unilateral KDE-centredness. Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back. So, let us vote constantly in one or the other way on which desktop environment we should keep up front. And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be... #9: Kjetil Kilhavn (kjetil_kilhavn) (2011-01-05 00:37:25) (reply to #3) Having no default does *not* make sense to a new user. This was the main reason for selecting a default as far as I know - and it is a reason which makes sense. Most users prefer to get started using their (new or old) computer with their new operating system. Those who prefer control will already have investigated the possibilities and have the option of *easily* changing the default choice. However, if you haven't already investigated KDE and Gnome to make up your mind, install time is certainly not the right time to start that learning process. So, no matter what the default is, it is better to have a default than to not have a default. This applies to desktop environment, browser, e- mail client, word processor and so on. + #11: Jose Ricardo De Leon Solis (derhundchen) (2011-01-07 06:58:33) + (reply to #3) + "And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can + hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop + environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be..." Why then + submit this request? And please read Kjetil Kilhavn answer "Because, as + a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has + proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and + developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter + pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back." + I don't think having GNOME by default would make a difference either. + Besides KDE isn't really a default as GNOME is in Ubuntu or in Fedora + (despite the fact that KDE is well packaged) where the man power behind + GNOME is far superior to the KDE man power. However in this community + the man power is pretty much even. KDE is just preselected in the dvd + installation. How much of a difference can that make? Now why was KDE + preselected? OpenSUSE and SuSE Linux before has attracted more KDE + users than GNOME users. If that trend reverts it would make sense to + preselect GNOME but right now I don't see a good reason to do so. #2: Ramon Juan Canto Serra (deabru) (2010-12-29 17:09:43) GNOME is a good desktop, as KDE is. I think KDE gives us some diferenciation from other distros. And most openSUSE users prefer it. No reason to change default desktop selection for me. #4: Alex Bars (alexdbars) (2010-12-30 01:29:22) (reply to #2) KDE 4 > KDE 3 > Windows > Gnome 2 > Gnome 3 \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ #5: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:05:33) (reply to #4) On pluto ? #6: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:47:32) My position regarding this issue is purely strategical, and hope people can understand why such position is taken my side... As I see things: 1. openSUSE 11.4 will be the last and greatest GNOME2 distribution. Let's focus on that. 2. openSUSE 11.3 provided a good GNOME2.32 software repository. The GNOME team hasn't failed in providing users the required support and made outstanding efforts in fixing stuff and working out an easy solution for users who wanted bleeding edge. This seems the way that will happen on 11.4, we ship 2.32 by default (at the peak of it's maturity and stability), which is also a more Universal choice, since we're not cutting users down based on proprietary 3D support which we can't really control in full extent. This sounds a good option. 3. I don't see a valid reason for reducing GNOME3 as some people are doing. openSUSE offers one of best, if not the best GNOME implementations! Why is our marketing neglecting this? And furthermore... Do you really think it's cool to make such statements that might have a negative impact on GNOME contributors? Before attacking GNOME, try to respect those people which like GNOME and that are also members/users of the community... take 10 minutes of you time and sprint 7 laps around your place while repeating to yourself: "openSUSE isn't just KDE". Though I don't really find offensive for openSUSE to provide different positioning by being a 'KDE distro', I find very negative that it generates way too much ranting between KDE and GNOME users. 3000 years ago Sun Tzu wrote that in order to conquer, first we needed to split the enemy... curiously, when our main strength should be in union, we seem to be splitting ourselves in futile wars between KDE and GNOME... I'm sure such attitudes only make only make us strong (see the irony?). #7: Jedi Beeftrix (jedibeeftrix) (2011-01-02 12:42:41) "Make GNOME 3 default" lol. #8: Toran Korshnah (torank) (2011-01-04 03:02:53) There was a review comparing the major Linux distros. OpsenSuSE was selected as the best KDE-distro. Ubuntu as the best GNOME-distro. Yast was praised as well. Pesonally I use LXDE with my SuSE. The best is to offer choice to the user, as every user is different. I prefer clean code, in which BSD is so good. But if you ask me, a big feature request would be the support for GPS-devices like TomTom, Mio etc... No, to me clean code and hardware-support is essential. #10: John McInnes (jamjamjamjam) (2011-01-06 06:11:10) GNOME.. [sigh] will the 10+ year old annoyance of windows always opening at the top left corner of the screen be fixed?? No probably not. I know, I know, its a feature of metacity or some such excuse. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Christian Jäger (eet) Feature #311023, revision 18 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... + <img src=" + http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5201349215_12c240ffc5.jpg" Discussion: #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it more visibility. #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2010-12-29 21:23:50) (reply to #1) Well, yes, this request really is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think we must keep a constant gauge on how many openSUSE users actually support the unilateral KDE-centredness. Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back. So, let us vote constantly in one or the other way on which desktop environment we should keep up front. And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be... #9: Kjetil Kilhavn (kjetil_kilhavn) (2011-01-05 00:37:25) (reply to #3) Having no default does *not* make sense to a new user. This was the main reason for selecting a default as far as I know - and it is a reason which makes sense. Most users prefer to get started using their (new or old) computer with their new operating system. Those who prefer control will already have investigated the possibilities and have the option of *easily* changing the default choice. However, if you haven't already investigated KDE and Gnome to make up your mind, install time is certainly not the right time to start that learning process. So, no matter what the default is, it is better to have a default than to not have a default. This applies to desktop environment, browser, e- mail client, word processor and so on. #11: Jose Ricardo De Leon Solis (derhundchen) (2011-01-07 06:58:33) (reply to #3) "And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be..." Why then submit this request? And please read Kjetil Kilhavn answer "Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back." I don't think having GNOME by default would make a difference either. Besides KDE isn't really a default as GNOME is in Ubuntu or in Fedora (despite the fact that KDE is well packaged) where the man power behind GNOME is far superior to the KDE man power. However in this community the man power is pretty much even. KDE is just preselected in the dvd installation. How much of a difference can that make? Now why was KDE preselected? OpenSUSE and SuSE Linux before has attracted more KDE users than GNOME users. If that trend reverts it would make sense to preselect GNOME but right now I don't see a good reason to do so. #2: Ramon Juan Canto Serra (deabru) (2010-12-29 17:09:43) GNOME is a good desktop, as KDE is. I think KDE gives us some diferenciation from other distros. And most openSUSE users prefer it. No reason to change default desktop selection for me. #4: Alex Bars (alexdbars) (2010-12-30 01:29:22) (reply to #2) KDE 4 > KDE 3 > Windows > Gnome 2 > Gnome 3 \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ #5: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:05:33) (reply to #4) On pluto ? #6: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:47:32) My position regarding this issue is purely strategical, and hope people can understand why such position is taken my side... As I see things: 1. openSUSE 11.4 will be the last and greatest GNOME2 distribution. Let's focus on that. 2. openSUSE 11.3 provided a good GNOME2.32 software repository. The GNOME team hasn't failed in providing users the required support and made outstanding efforts in fixing stuff and working out an easy solution for users who wanted bleeding edge. This seems the way that will happen on 11.4, we ship 2.32 by default (at the peak of it's maturity and stability), which is also a more Universal choice, since we're not cutting users down based on proprietary 3D support which we can't really control in full extent. This sounds a good option. 3. I don't see a valid reason for reducing GNOME3 as some people are doing. openSUSE offers one of best, if not the best GNOME implementations! Why is our marketing neglecting this? And furthermore... Do you really think it's cool to make such statements that might have a negative impact on GNOME contributors? Before attacking GNOME, try to respect those people which like GNOME and that are also members/users of the community... take 10 minutes of you time and sprint 7 laps around your place while repeating to yourself: "openSUSE isn't just KDE". Though I don't really find offensive for openSUSE to provide different positioning by being a 'KDE distro', I find very negative that it generates way too much ranting between KDE and GNOME users. 3000 years ago Sun Tzu wrote that in order to conquer, first we needed to split the enemy... curiously, when our main strength should be in union, we seem to be splitting ourselves in futile wars between KDE and GNOME... I'm sure such attitudes only make only make us strong (see the irony?). #7: Jedi Beeftrix (jedibeeftrix) (2011-01-02 12:42:41) "Make GNOME 3 default" lol. #8: Toran Korshnah (torank) (2011-01-04 03:02:53) There was a review comparing the major Linux distros. OpsenSuSE was selected as the best KDE-distro. Ubuntu as the best GNOME-distro. Yast was praised as well. Pesonally I use LXDE with my SuSE. The best is to offer choice to the user, as every user is different. I prefer clean code, in which BSD is so good. But if you ask me, a big feature request would be the support for GPS-devices like TomTom, Mio etc... No, to me clean code and hardware-support is essential. #10: John McInnes (jamjamjamjam) (2011-01-06 06:11:10) GNOME.. [sigh] will the 10+ year old annoyance of windows always opening at the top left corner of the screen be fixed?? No probably not. I know, I know, its a feature of metacity or some such excuse. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Hans de Raad (hcderaad) Feature #311023, revision 20 Title: Make GNOME 3 default openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... Discussion: #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it more visibility. #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2010-12-29 21:23:50) (reply to #1) Well, yes, this request really is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think we must keep a constant gauge on how many openSUSE users actually support the unilateral KDE-centredness. Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back. So, let us vote constantly in one or the other way on which desktop environment we should keep up front. And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be... #9: Kjetil Kilhavn (kjetil_kilhavn) (2011-01-05 00:37:25) (reply to #3) Having no default does *not* make sense to a new user. This was the main reason for selecting a default as far as I know - and it is a reason which makes sense. Most users prefer to get started using their (new or old) computer with their new operating system. Those who prefer control will already have investigated the possibilities and have the option of *easily* changing the default choice. However, if you haven't already investigated KDE and Gnome to make up your mind, install time is certainly not the right time to start that learning process. So, no matter what the default is, it is better to have a default than to not have a default. This applies to desktop environment, browser, e- mail client, word processor and so on. #11: Jose Ricardo De Leon Solis (derhundchen) (2011-01-07 06:58:33) (reply to #3) "And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be..." Why then submit this request? And please read Kjetil Kilhavn answer "Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back." I don't think having GNOME by default would make a difference either. Besides KDE isn't really a default as GNOME is in Ubuntu or in Fedora (despite the fact that KDE is well packaged) where the man power behind GNOME is far superior to the KDE man power. However in this community the man power is pretty much even. KDE is just preselected in the dvd installation. How much of a difference can that make? Now why was KDE preselected? OpenSUSE and SuSE Linux before has attracted more KDE users than GNOME users. If that trend reverts it would make sense to preselect GNOME but right now I don't see a good reason to do so. #2: Ramon Juan Canto Serra (deabru) (2010-12-29 17:09:43) GNOME is a good desktop, as KDE is. I think KDE gives us some diferenciation from other distros. And most openSUSE users prefer it. No reason to change default desktop selection for me. #4: Alex Bars (alexdbars) (2010-12-30 01:29:22) (reply to #2) KDE 4 > KDE 3 > Windows > Gnome 2 > Gnome 3 \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ #5: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:05:33) (reply to #4) On pluto ? #6: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:47:32) My position regarding this issue is purely strategical, and hope people can understand why such position is taken my side... As I see things: 1. openSUSE 11.4 will be the last and greatest GNOME2 distribution. Let's focus on that. 2. openSUSE 11.3 provided a good GNOME2.32 software repository. The GNOME team hasn't failed in providing users the required support and made outstanding efforts in fixing stuff and working out an easy solution for users who wanted bleeding edge. This seems the way that will happen on 11.4, we ship 2.32 by default (at the peak of it's maturity and stability), which is also a more Universal choice, since we're not cutting users down based on proprietary 3D support which we can't really control in full extent. This sounds a good option. 3. I don't see a valid reason for reducing GNOME3 as some people are doing. openSUSE offers one of best, if not the best GNOME implementations! Why is our marketing neglecting this? And furthermore... Do you really think it's cool to make such statements that might have a negative impact on GNOME contributors? Before attacking GNOME, try to respect those people which like GNOME and that are also members/users of the community... take 10 minutes of you time and sprint 7 laps around your place while repeating to yourself: "openSUSE isn't just KDE". Though I don't really find offensive for openSUSE to provide different positioning by being a 'KDE distro', I find very negative that it generates way too much ranting between KDE and GNOME users. 3000 years ago Sun Tzu wrote that in order to conquer, first we needed to split the enemy... curiously, when our main strength should be in union, we seem to be splitting ourselves in futile wars between KDE and GNOME... I'm sure such attitudes only make only make us strong (see the irony?). #7: Jedi Beeftrix (jedibeeftrix) (2011-01-02 12:42:41) "Make GNOME 3 default" lol. #8: Toran Korshnah (torank) (2011-01-04 03:02:53) There was a review comparing the major Linux distros. OpsenSuSE was selected as the best KDE-distro. Ubuntu as the best GNOME-distro. Yast was praised as well. Pesonally I use LXDE with my SuSE. The best is to offer choice to the user, as every user is different. I prefer clean code, in which BSD is so good. But if you ask me, a big feature request would be the support for GPS-devices like TomTom, Mio etc... No, to me clean code and hardware-support is essential. #10: John McInnes (jamjamjamjam) (2011-01-06 06:11:10) GNOME.. [sigh] will the 10+ year old annoyance of windows always opening at the top left corner of the screen be fixed?? No probably not. I know, I know, its a feature of metacity or some such excuse. + #12: Hans de Raad (hcderaad) (2011-01-17 12:18:40) + Please lets not do the KDE4 scenario (its new, so lets put in in there + even if its not nearly stable/usable) all over again... There is not a + single person i know who was actually satisfied with KDE 4.1 (or what + was it in 11.1?), myself (an avid KDE user since KDE2) included. Let + GNOME 3 mature a bit more before jumping on board. This coming from a + recent GNOME convert. + On the other hand, having a default selection made during install, how + relevant is that? Especially since the bulk of the installations i've + done recently where done by using the (excellent) live cd isos! -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023

Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #311023, revision 22 Title: Make GNOME 3 default - openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed + openSUSE Distribution: Done Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: openSUSE has continuously been outranked since 2009 by 3 GNOME-based distributions on distrowatch.com. openSUSE has failed to re-capture its spot as hot contender in 2010 by betting everything on the KDE-4-card. The only way to re-gain popularity and some of the buzz of those early years of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop introduction seems to me to strengthen the visibility of GNOME in openSUSE and preferably be at the forefront of GNOME 3 adoption; a position that Ubuntu has foolishly relinquished of its own accord. The fabulous buildservice should make it quite easy to adopt bleeding- edge GNOME 3 features quickly while at the same time offering a GNOME 2 interface akin to the still very popular SLED. KDE 4 should of course continue to be supported... Discussion: #1: Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet) (2010-12-29 16:04:08) Too bad GNOME 3.0 won't make it into openSUSE 11.4, which will have KDE's 4.6 release as biggest user-visible change. For the 11.5/12.0 release we might be able to give this a push, however, to be on the forefront we're too late by then. That is too bad, I know. But if GNOME 3 proves to be very popular it is worth a shot at that time to give it more visibility. #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2010-12-29 21:23:50) (reply to #1) Well, yes, this request really is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think we must keep a constant gauge on how many openSUSE users actually support the unilateral KDE-centredness. Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back. So, let us vote constantly in one or the other way on which desktop environment we should keep up front. And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be... #9: Kjetil Kilhavn (kjetil_kilhavn) (2011-01-05 00:37:25) (reply to #3) Having no default does *not* make sense to a new user. This was the main reason for selecting a default as far as I know - and it is a reason which makes sense. Most users prefer to get started using their (new or old) computer with their new operating system. Those who prefer control will already have investigated the possibilities and have the option of *easily* changing the default choice. However, if you haven't already investigated KDE and Gnome to make up your mind, install time is certainly not the right time to start that learning process. So, no matter what the default is, it is better to have a default than to not have a default. This applies to desktop environment, browser, e- mail client, word processor and so on. #11: Jose Ricardo De Leon Solis (derhundchen) (2011-01-07 06:58:33) (reply to #3) "And when we finally have enough of this constant in-fighting, we can hopefully return to the sanity of olden days, having NO default desktop environment whatsoever, which is the way it should be..." Why then submit this request? And please read Kjetil Kilhavn answer "Because, as a matter of fact, the move to KDE as default desktop environment has proven spectacularly unsuccessful in attracting new users and developers, a promise which was used heavily to sweeten that bitter pill for openSUSE GNOMErs a year or so back." I don't think having GNOME by default would make a difference either. Besides KDE isn't really a default as GNOME is in Ubuntu or in Fedora (despite the fact that KDE is well packaged) where the man power behind GNOME is far superior to the KDE man power. However in this community the man power is pretty much even. KDE is just preselected in the dvd installation. How much of a difference can that make? Now why was KDE preselected? OpenSUSE and SuSE Linux before has attracted more KDE users than GNOME users. If that trend reverts it would make sense to preselect GNOME but right now I don't see a good reason to do so. #2: Ramon Juan Canto Serra (deabru) (2010-12-29 17:09:43) GNOME is a good desktop, as KDE is. I think KDE gives us some diferenciation from other distros. And most openSUSE users prefer it. No reason to change default desktop selection for me. #4: Alex Bars (alexdbars) (2010-12-30 01:29:22) (reply to #2) KDE 4 > KDE 3 > Windows > Gnome 2 > Gnome 3 \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ #5: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:05:33) (reply to #4) On pluto ? #6: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2011-01-01 15:47:32) My position regarding this issue is purely strategical, and hope people can understand why such position is taken my side... As I see things: 1. openSUSE 11.4 will be the last and greatest GNOME2 distribution. Let's focus on that. 2. openSUSE 11.3 provided a good GNOME2.32 software repository. The GNOME team hasn't failed in providing users the required support and made outstanding efforts in fixing stuff and working out an easy solution for users who wanted bleeding edge. This seems the way that will happen on 11.4, we ship 2.32 by default (at the peak of it's maturity and stability), which is also a more Universal choice, since we're not cutting users down based on proprietary 3D support which we can't really control in full extent. This sounds a good option. 3. I don't see a valid reason for reducing GNOME3 as some people are doing. openSUSE offers one of best, if not the best GNOME implementations! Why is our marketing neglecting this? And furthermore... Do you really think it's cool to make such statements that might have a negative impact on GNOME contributors? Before attacking GNOME, try to respect those people which like GNOME and that are also members/users of the community... take 10 minutes of you time and sprint 7 laps around your place while repeating to yourself: "openSUSE isn't just KDE". Though I don't really find offensive for openSUSE to provide different positioning by being a 'KDE distro', I find very negative that it generates way too much ranting between KDE and GNOME users. 3000 years ago Sun Tzu wrote that in order to conquer, first we needed to split the enemy... curiously, when our main strength should be in union, we seem to be splitting ourselves in futile wars between KDE and GNOME... I'm sure such attitudes only make only make us strong (see the irony?). #7: Jedi Beeftrix (jedibeeftrix) (2011-01-02 12:42:41) "Make GNOME 3 default" lol. #8: Toran Korshnah (torank) (2011-01-04 03:02:53) There was a review comparing the major Linux distros. OpsenSuSE was selected as the best KDE-distro. Ubuntu as the best GNOME-distro. Yast was praised as well. Pesonally I use LXDE with my SuSE. The best is to offer choice to the user, as every user is different. I prefer clean code, in which BSD is so good. But if you ask me, a big feature request would be the support for GPS-devices like TomTom, Mio etc... No, to me clean code and hardware-support is essential. #10: John McInnes (jamjamjamjam) (2011-01-06 06:11:10) GNOME.. [sigh] will the 10+ year old annoyance of windows always opening at the top left corner of the screen be fixed?? No probably not. I know, I know, its a feature of metacity or some such excuse. #12: Hans de Raad (hcderaad) (2011-01-17 12:18:40) Please lets not do the KDE4 scenario (its new, so lets put in in there even if its not nearly stable/usable) all over again... There is not a single person i know who was actually satisfied with KDE 4.1 (or what was it in 11.1?), myself (an avid KDE user since KDE2) included. Let GNOME 3 mature a bit more before jumping on board. This coming from a recent GNOME convert. On the other hand, having a default selection made during install, how relevant is that? Especially since the bulk of the installations i've done recently where done by using the (excellent) live cd isos! #13: Martin Kohn (pmartink) (2011-05-03 19:11:11) I dont know if Iam here at the right adress. But why all Distributions follow the gnome3 train. I tried it and its the worst Desktop environment I have ever seen. Such a waste of efficiency! Please keep Gnome2! + #14: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2011-07-19 10:55:01) + GNOME 3 will be in openSUSE 12.1 as only GNOME implementation, so I + consider this as done. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/311023