Feature changed by: Lubos Lunak (llunak) Feature #306733, revision 3 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list - openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation + openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Lubos Lunak (llunak) + reject date: 2009-08-06 20:28:49 + reject reason: KDE:KDE3 is unmaintained and such repositories will not + be added to the community repository list. Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Karsten König (remur) Feature #306733, revision 5 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Lubos Lunak (llunak) reject date: 2009-08-06 20:28:49 reject reason: KDE:KDE3 is unmaintained and such repositories will not be added to the community repository list. Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) + #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) + Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did + you not reply there? + There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get + added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for + adoption, help welcome... -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) Feature #306733, revision 7 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... + #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to + #2) + oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. + #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to + #2) + I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept + to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as + http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However + I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) Feature #306733, revision 10 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

+ #6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to + #5) + For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference + anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not + make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times + of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been + responded upon for years or not at all! + Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to + KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the + respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user + settings. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Stephan Binner (Beineri) Feature #306733, revision 12 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. + #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) + It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages + don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 + does not. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) Feature #306733, revision 14 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. + #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to + #7) + The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo + available at install time rather than adding it to the community list + (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change + it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would + make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? + Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time + would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; + https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) Feature #306733, revision 16 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). + #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) + Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that + currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?! +   + If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to + https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix + the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and + over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will + collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported + anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up + to you (the people who desperately want it)). +   + Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally + stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet + peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) Feature #306733, revision 18 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?!   If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up to you (the people who desperately want it)).   Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. #13: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:09:53) (reply to #12) The question must be allowed. Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? We have version control. That should not be a problem at all! Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** + #14: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:28:15) + The truth is that KDE will lose a lot of users trying to force them out + of KDE3 into KDE4/Gnome. + Why not allow them to switch gradually, instead? + As KDE4 programs get better and better users will use more and more of + them. + The least requirement I would demand for OpenSuse 11.2 is an own KDE3 - + 'package group', because most of the 'we are happy with KDE3' - folk + will be overcharged by having to install KDE3 core programs like kicker + and kdesktop by single package selections on their own. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) Feature #306733, revision 20 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?!   If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up to you (the people who desperately want it)).   Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. #13: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:09:53) (reply to #12) The question must be allowed. Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? We have version control. That should not be a problem at all! Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** + #16: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:04:59) (reply to #13) + > Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working + version of an unsupported program? +   + Cause those programs depend on external libraries and once those get + changed the programs have to be adapted. If you think you can do it + better go ahead and fix the stuff. I'm sure all the other "We need KDE3 + or I will stop using openSUSE" whiners will be happy to help you. +   + > Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to + its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! +   + This makes no sense because no one is doing that. The compilation + failures arise because openSUSE 11.2 / Factory contains newer 3rd party + library versions than previous versions and some of them changed their + API so the programs that use them have to be addapted. +   + > This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not + the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them + for now! *** +   + No. I suggest you read the homepage for what it is and what it is not. + Regarding the spamming I would say that stuff that doesn't contribute + anything but some ongoing whining that stuff is different from what you + want it to be perfectly qualifies as such. See e.g. your comments in + the encrypted root feature or here #3, #4, #11 or the mere fact that + the last 3 comments here came from you within 15 minutes without adding + anything new / important / relevant. #15: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:33:44) (reply to #12) Well, I can provide fixes for some of them (like the konsole-enlarge-fontsize- bug), but not for all of them. Besides this it is no good common practice to block bug reporting facilities for more and more KDE3 programs. It should still be possible to report bugs even if we currently do not have a maintainer. #14: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:28:15) The truth is that KDE will lose a lot of users trying to force them out of KDE3 into KDE4/Gnome. Why not allow them to switch gradually, instead? As KDE4 programs get better and better users will use more and more of them. The least requirement I would demand for OpenSuse 11.2 is an own KDE3 - 'package group', because most of the 'we are happy with KDE3' - folk will be overcharged by having to install KDE3 core programs like kicker and kdesktop by single package selections on their own. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) Feature #306733, revision 22 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Lubos Lunak (llunak) reject date: 2009-08-28 16:09:20 reject reason: The KDE:KDE3 repository is unmaintained and does not even build properly anymore. It is not acceptable to offer such a repository in the community list. Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?! If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up to you (the people who desperately want it)). Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. #13: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:09:53) (reply to #12) The question must be allowed. Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? We have version control. That should not be a problem at all! Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** #16: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:04:59) (reply to #13)

Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? Cause those programs depend on external libraries and once those get changed the programs have to be adapted. If you think you can do it better go ahead and fix the stuff. I'm sure all the other "We need KDE3 or I will stop using openSUSE" whiners will be happy to help you. Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This makes no sense because no one is doing that. The compilation failures arise because openSUSE 11.2 / Factory contains newer 3rd party library versions than previous versions and some of them changed their API so the programs that use them have to be addapted. This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** No. I suggest you read the homepage for what it is and what it is not. Regarding the spamming I would say that stuff that doesn't contribute anything but some ongoing whining that stuff is different from what you want it to be perfectly qualifies as such. See e.g. your comments in the encrypted root feature or here #3, #4, #11 or the mere fact that the last 3 comments here came from you within 15 minutes without adding anything new / important / relevant.

#15: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:33:44) (reply to #12) Well, I can provide fixes for some of them (like the konsole-enlarge-fontsize- bug), but not for all of them. Besides this it is no good common practice to block bug reporting facilities for more and more KDE3 programs. It should still be possible to report bugs even if we currently do not have a maintainer. + #17: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:18:06) (reply to #15) + It is possible to report KDE 3 bugs for openSUSE and if upstream KDE + closes KDE 3 bugs with WONTFIX you please take it to them. This is not + the place to moan about bugs.kde.org. +   + Last but not least be prepared that there will no maintainer magically + show up either until you and your "I want KDE 3" friends start to + maintain it. However, since reporting bugs is possible and those bugs + are publically accessible your comment makes no sense. Further OBS + provides the necessary tools to collaborate ( + http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration (http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration) + ) so it just depends on you and your "I want KDE 3" friends and if you + are willing / able to do something more productive than demanding + someone else does what you want for free. #14: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:28:15) The truth is that KDE will lose a lot of users trying to force them out of KDE3 into KDE4/Gnome. Why not allow them to switch gradually, instead? As KDE4 programs get better and better users will use more and more of them. The least requirement I would demand for OpenSuse 11.2 is an own KDE3 - 'package group', because most of the 'we are happy with KDE3' - folk will be overcharged by having to install KDE3 core programs like kicker and kdesktop by single package selections on their own. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) Feature #306733, revision 25 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Lubos Lunak (llunak) reject date: 2009-08-28 16:09:20 reject reason: The KDE:KDE3 repository is unmaintained and does not even build properly anymore. It is not acceptable to offer such a repository in the community list. Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?! If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up to you (the people who desperately want it)). Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. #13: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:09:53) (reply to #12) The question must be allowed. Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? We have version control. That should not be a problem at all! Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** #16: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:04:59) (reply to #13)

Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? Cause those programs depend on external libraries and once those get changed the programs have to be adapted. If you think you can do it better go ahead and fix the stuff. I'm sure all the other "We need KDE3 or I will stop using openSUSE" whiners will be happy to help you. Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This makes no sense because no one is doing that. The compilation failures arise because openSUSE 11.2 / Factory contains newer 3rd party library versions than previous versions and some of them changed their API so the programs that use them have to be addapted. This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** No. I suggest you read the homepage for what it is and what it is not. Regarding the spamming I would say that stuff that doesn't contribute anything but some ongoing whining that stuff is different from what you want it to be perfectly qualifies as such. See e.g. your comments in the encrypted root feature or here #3, #4, #11 or the mere fact that the last 3 comments here came from you within 15 minutes without adding anything new / important / relevant.

#15: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:33:44) (reply to #12) Well, I can provide fixes for some of them (like the konsole-enlarge-fontsize- bug), but not for all of them. Besides this it is no good common practice to block bug reporting facilities for more and more KDE3 programs. It should still be possible to report bugs even if we currently do not have a maintainer. #17: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:18:06) (reply to #15) It is possible to report KDE 3 bugs for openSUSE and if upstream KDE closes KDE 3 bugs with WONTFIX you please take it to them. This is not the place to moan about bugs.kde.org.   Last but not least be prepared that there will no maintainer magically show up either until you and your "I want KDE 3" friends start to maintain it. However, since reporting bugs is possible and those bugs are publically accessible your comment makes no sense. Further OBS provides the necessary tools to collaborate ( http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration (http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration) ) so it just depends on you and your "I want KDE 3" friends and if you are willing / able to do something more productive than demanding someone else does what you want for free. #14: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:28:15) The truth is that KDE will lose a lot of users trying to force them out of KDE3 into KDE4/Gnome. Why not allow them to switch gradually, instead? As KDE4 programs get better and better users will use more and more of them. The least requirement I would demand for OpenSuse 11.2 is an own KDE3 - 'package group', because most of the 'we are happy with KDE3' - folk will be overcharged by having to install KDE3 core programs like kicker and kdesktop by single package selections on their own. #18: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:20:43) (reply to #14) I "demand" that you start to get a clue before you "demand" anything more ... (hint: you "demand" a software "pattern" which existed before and wont stop to exist). Nevertheless that pattern wont help you until you fix the packages so they build again ;P + #19: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 13:42:26) (reply to + #18) + I mean KDE3 being listed under 'software patterns' in YaST. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) Feature #306733, revision 27 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Lubos Lunak (llunak) reject date: 2009-08-28 16:09:20 reject reason: The KDE:KDE3 repository is unmaintained and does not even build properly anymore. It is not acceptable to offer such a repository in the community list. Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?! If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up to you (the people who desperately want it)). Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. #13: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:09:53) (reply to #12) The question must be allowed. Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? We have version control. That should not be a problem at all! Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** #16: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:04:59) (reply to #13)

Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? Cause those programs depend on external libraries and once those get changed the programs have to be adapted. If you think you can do it better go ahead and fix the stuff. I'm sure all the other "We need KDE3 or I will stop using openSUSE" whiners will be happy to help you. Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This makes no sense because no one is doing that. The compilation failures arise because openSUSE 11.2 / Factory contains newer 3rd party library versions than previous versions and some of them changed their API so the programs that use them have to be addapted. This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** No. I suggest you read the homepage for what it is and what it is not. Regarding the spamming I would say that stuff that doesn't contribute anything but some ongoing whining that stuff is different from what you want it to be perfectly qualifies as such. See e.g. your comments in the encrypted root feature or here #3, #4, #11 or the mere fact that the last 3 comments here came from you within 15 minutes without adding anything new / important / relevant.

#15: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:33:44) (reply to #12) Well, I can provide fixes for some of them (like the konsole-enlarge-fontsize- bug), but not for all of them. Besides this it is no good common practice to block bug reporting facilities for more and more KDE3 programs. It should still be possible to report bugs even if we currently do not have a maintainer. #17: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:18:06) (reply to #15) It is possible to report KDE 3 bugs for openSUSE and if upstream KDE closes KDE 3 bugs with WONTFIX you please take it to them. This is not the place to moan about bugs.kde.org.   Last but not least be prepared that there will no maintainer magically show up either until you and your "I want KDE 3" friends start to maintain it. However, since reporting bugs is possible and those bugs are publically accessible your comment makes no sense. Further OBS provides the necessary tools to collaborate ( http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration (http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration) ) so it just depends on you and your "I want KDE 3" friends and if you are willing / able to do something more productive than demanding someone else does what you want for free. #20: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 13:48:16) (reply to #17) It was (at least temporarily) not possible to file bugs at all for certain KDE3 programs. If I am still able to report a bug and someone else closes it as WONTFIX, then everything is all right. #14: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:28:15) The truth is that KDE will lose a lot of users trying to force them out of KDE3 into KDE4/Gnome. Why not allow them to switch gradually, instead? As KDE4 programs get better and better users will use more and more of them. The least requirement I would demand for OpenSuse 11.2 is an own KDE3 - 'package group', because most of the 'we are happy with KDE3' - folk will be overcharged by having to install KDE3 core programs like kicker and kdesktop by single package selections on their own. #18: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:20:43) (reply to #14) I "demand" that you start to get a clue before you "demand" anything more ... (hint: you "demand" a software "pattern" which existed before and wont stop to exist). Nevertheless that pattern wont help you until you fix the packages so they build again ;P #19: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 13:42:26) (reply to #18) I mean KDE3 being listed under 'software patterns' in YaST. + #21: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 14:02:48) + The reason why I am still using KDE3 is that KDE4 simply isn`t ready + yet. Just have a look at Konqueror. KDE4-konqueror can f.i. not display + this page while KDE3-konqueror can (... and this affects a lot of www- + pages, not only this one). In my mind some KDE4-apps are also lacking + crucial features like f.i. selecting the indentation mode in kwrite. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) Feature #306733, revision 29 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Lubos Lunak (llunak) reject date: 2009-08-28 16:09:20 reject reason: The KDE:KDE3 repository is unmaintained and does not even build properly anymore. It is not acceptable to offer such a repository in the community list. Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?! If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up to you (the people who desperately want it)). Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. #13: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:09:53) (reply to #12) The question must be allowed. Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? We have version control. That should not be a problem at all! Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** #16: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:04:59) (reply to #13)

Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? Cause those programs depend on external libraries and once those get changed the programs have to be adapted. If you think you can do it better go ahead and fix the stuff. I'm sure all the other "We need KDE3 or I will stop using openSUSE" whiners will be happy to help you. Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This makes no sense because no one is doing that. The compilation failures arise because openSUSE 11.2 / Factory contains newer 3rd party library versions than previous versions and some of them changed their API so the programs that use them have to be addapted. This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** No. I suggest you read the homepage for what it is and what it is not. Regarding the spamming I would say that stuff that doesn't contribute anything but some ongoing whining that stuff is different from what you want it to be perfectly qualifies as such. See e.g. your comments in the encrypted root feature or here #3, #4, #11 or the mere fact that the last 3 comments here came from you within 15 minutes without adding anything new / important / relevant.

#15: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:33:44) (reply to #12) Well, I can provide fixes for some of them (like the konsole-enlarge-fontsize- bug), but not for all of them. Besides this it is no good common practice to block bug reporting facilities for more and more KDE3 programs. It should still be possible to report bugs even if we currently do not have a maintainer. #17: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:18:06) (reply to #15) It is possible to report KDE 3 bugs for openSUSE and if upstream KDE closes KDE 3 bugs with WONTFIX you please take it to them. This is not the place to moan about bugs.kde.org.   Last but not least be prepared that there will no maintainer magically show up either until you and your "I want KDE 3" friends start to maintain it. However, since reporting bugs is possible and those bugs are publically accessible your comment makes no sense. Further OBS provides the necessary tools to collaborate ( http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration (http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration) ) so it just depends on you and your "I want KDE 3" friends and if you are willing / able to do something more productive than demanding someone else does what you want for free. #20: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 13:48:16) (reply to #17) It was (at least temporarily) not possible to file bugs at all for certain KDE3 programs. If I am still able to report a bug and someone else closes it as WONTFIX, then everything is all right. #14: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:28:15) The truth is that KDE will lose a lot of users trying to force them out of KDE3 into KDE4/Gnome. Why not allow them to switch gradually, instead? As KDE4 programs get better and better users will use more and more of them. The least requirement I would demand for OpenSuse 11.2 is an own KDE3 - 'package group', because most of the 'we are happy with KDE3' - folk will be overcharged by having to install KDE3 core programs like kicker and kdesktop by single package selections on their own. #18: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:20:43) (reply to #14) I "demand" that you start to get a clue before you "demand" anything more ... (hint: you "demand" a software "pattern" which existed before and wont stop to exist). Nevertheless that pattern wont help you until you fix the packages so they build again ;P #19: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 13:42:26) (reply to #18) I mean KDE3 being listed under 'software patterns' in YaST. #21: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 14:02:48) The reason why I am still using KDE3 is that KDE4 simply isn`t ready yet. Just have a look at Konqueror. KDE4-konqueror can f.i. not display this page while KDE3-konqueror can (... and this affects a lot of www- pages, not only this one). In my mind some KDE4-apps are also lacking crucial features like f.i. selecting the indentation mode in kwrite. #22: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 16:50:13) Good bye KDE, Good bye OpenSuse, Good bye Linux! KDE4 has become a poor and buggy copy of MacOS & Vista with many feature regressions in comparence to KDE3. Nowadays innovations take place somewhere else. Linux has already seen better days.   + #23: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-30 03:02:57) (reply to #22) + Which precisely proofes my point that you can't be arsed to do anyting + else than to whine that someone else isn't doing what you want for free + ... +   + If you want to bitch about KDE 3 not getting maintained any longer by + upstream please go to kde.org and talk to them. I'm sure they will love + it but this is the wrong place. +   + And yes, that post of yours is a nice example of what I meant with + "spamming". -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733

Feature changed by: David Rankin (drankinatty) Feature #306733, revision 31 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Lubos Lunak (llunak) reject date: 2009-08-28 16:09:20 reject reason: The KDE:KDE3 repository is unmaintained and does not even build properly anymore. It is not acceptable to offer such a repository in the community list. Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. + #25: David Rankin (drankinatty) (2009-09-02 09:29:27) (reply to #1) + As of the proposed release of 11.2, there are still a number of + packages that have no kde4 equivalent (quanta, basket-notepads, etc.) + Since kde3 is static and the effort required to make a kde3 repository + available to 11.2 users, there is no reason not to do so. + Currenly, I have moved to kde4 on my laptop and I am dealing with the + annoyances as the bugs are being worked. I like a lot about kde4. + However, I have other older boxes where kde4 isn't an option even if + the bugs were cleaned up due to the hardware demands of kde4. (older + AMD Tbird 800 with 1G of RAM, PIII 866 w/ 1G, etc.) Still fine boxes + for word processing, etc. and kde3 runs great on them, but kde4 brings + them to their knees, compositing turns itself off to save resources, + nepomuk strigi kills them, etc. + It just makes sense simply provide the ability for openSuSE users to + have the choice of which desktop (kde3/kde4) to load since there is + virtually no maintenance required on the kde3 repo once it is set up + and for users with older hardware, they can benefit from a good desktop + that is much lighter on the hardware than kde4 and provides 10-fold the + functionality that an openbox or icewm would. (which if kde3 wasn't + provided, that is the only option that owners of older hardware would + have) #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)

adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)

#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?! If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up to you (the people who desperately want it)). Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. #13: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:09:53) (reply to #12) The question must be allowed. Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? We have version control. That should not be a problem at all! Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** #16: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:04:59) (reply to #13)

Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? Cause those programs depend on external libraries and once those get changed the programs have to be adapted. If you think you can do it better go ahead and fix the stuff. I'm sure all the other "We need KDE3 or I will stop using openSUSE" whiners will be happy to help you. Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This makes no sense because no one is doing that. The compilation failures arise because openSUSE 11.2 / Factory contains newer 3rd party library versions than previous versions and some of them changed their API so the programs that use them have to be addapted. This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** No. I suggest you read the homepage for what it is and what it is not. Regarding the spamming I would say that stuff that doesn't contribute anything but some ongoing whining that stuff is different from what you want it to be perfectly qualifies as such. See e.g. your comments in the encrypted root feature or here #3, #4, #11 or the mere fact that the last 3 comments here came from you within 15 minutes without adding anything new / important / relevant.

#15: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:33:44) (reply to #12) Well, I can provide fixes for some of them (like the konsole-enlarge-fontsize- bug), but not for all of them. Besides this it is no good common practice to block bug reporting facilities for more and more KDE3 programs. It should still be possible to report bugs even if we currently do not have a maintainer. #17: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:18:06) (reply to #15) It is possible to report KDE 3 bugs for openSUSE and if upstream KDE closes KDE 3 bugs with WONTFIX you please take it to them. This is not the place to moan about bugs.kde.org.   Last but not least be prepared that there will no maintainer magically show up either until you and your "I want KDE 3" friends start to maintain it. However, since reporting bugs is possible and those bugs are publically accessible your comment makes no sense. Further OBS provides the necessary tools to collaborate ( http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration (http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration) ) so it just depends on you and your "I want KDE 3" friends and if you are willing / able to do something more productive than demanding someone else does what you want for free. #20: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 13:48:16) (reply to #17) It was (at least temporarily) not possible to file bugs at all for certain KDE3 programs. If I am still able to report a bug and someone else closes it as WONTFIX, then everything is all right. #14: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:28:15) The truth is that KDE will lose a lot of users trying to force them out of KDE3 into KDE4/Gnome. Why not allow them to switch gradually, instead? As KDE4 programs get better and better users will use more and more of them. The least requirement I would demand for OpenSuse 11.2 is an own KDE3 - 'package group', because most of the 'we are happy with KDE3' - folk will be overcharged by having to install KDE3 core programs like kicker and kdesktop by single package selections on their own. #18: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:20:43) (reply to #14) I "demand" that you start to get a clue before you "demand" anything more ... (hint: you "demand" a software "pattern" which existed before and wont stop to exist). Nevertheless that pattern wont help you until you fix the packages so they build again ;P #19: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 13:42:26) (reply to #18) I mean KDE3 being listed under 'software patterns' in YaST. #21: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 14:02:48) The reason why I am still using KDE3 is that KDE4 simply isn`t ready yet. Just have a look at Konqueror. KDE4-konqueror can f.i. not display this page while KDE3-konqueror can (... and this affects a lot of www- pages, not only this one). In my mind some KDE4-apps are also lacking crucial features like f.i. selecting the indentation mode in kwrite. #22: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-29 16:50:13) Good bye KDE, Good bye OpenSuse, Good bye Linux! KDE4 has become a poor and buggy copy of MacOS & Vista with many feature regressions in comparence to KDE3. Nowadays innovations take place somewhere else. Linux has already seen better days.   #23: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-30 03:02:57) (reply to #22) Which precisely proofes my point that you can't be arsed to do anyting else than to whine that someone else isn't doing what you want for free ...   If you want to bitch about KDE 3 not getting maintained any longer by upstream please go to kde.org and talk to them. I'm sure they will love it but this is the wrong place.   And yes, that post of yours is a nice example of what I meant with "spamming". #24: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-30 03:13:16) On a more productive note: Beineri and me fixed some of the KDE 3 packages so it is in a much better shape than a few days before.   What is still missing: 1) Some packages need to be fixed. 2) A KDE 3 pattern has to be created that is addapted to the changed package names. 3) The stuff has to be tested with 11.2 BEFORE it is released (that should be even doable for Elmar and friends ...)   If you are insterested in that please have a look at https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and try to fix the builds for openSUSE_Factory -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733