Feature changed by: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) Feature #306733, revision 20 Title: Add KDE3 buildservice repository to community list openSUSE-11.2: Rejected Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Karsten König (remur) Description: As openSUSE 11.2 will drop KDE3 from main repositories we should make adding the KDE3 repository as easy as possible, adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. Use Case: * Elmar wants to keep using KDE3 as KDE4 still isn't ready for him, he doesn't mind using a seperate inofficial repository though. This will make it easy for him to add the repository at install time and select KDE3 * Karsten hangs around #opensuse-kde and after 11.2 release a lot of people come and ask how to get KDE3 and start bitching about the decission to drop it, he can now point out this easy way to add the repository and help restore order in the channel Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-14 22:00:29) Vote for this if you are still interested in KDE3! The KDE team has recently decided to drop 'poorly maintained' KDE3 apps from factory (currently the only source for KDE3 at os11.2). Nonetheless these apps may still be more elaborate and stable than their KDE4 counterparts. For a list of KDE3 apps and such apps not ported to KDE4 (or at least some of them) you may have a look at http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval. (http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Community/kde3_eval) #2: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-15 15:46:46) (reply to #1) Lubos asked on the -kde list which applications should be kept, why did you not reply there? There still is a KDE3 source, KDE:KDE3 in the obs, it just doesn't get added to the community list because nobody works on it, it's up for adoption, help welcome... #3: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:20:49) (reply to #2) oops, must have forgotten to subscribe. #4: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 11:58:32) (reply to #2) I thought dropping them from factory will not mind if these apps are kept to be provided by a default KDE3 repo as http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2. However I had to notice that such a repo does not exist yet. #5: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 14:23:22)
adding KDE3 to the community repository list would be an easy way to do this and will point out the unsupported state of the repository. I would rather argue the opposite, adding it would suggest that it's somekind of supported. Voting against! :-)
#6: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-23 21:52:56) (reply to #5) For the average user the 'support state' will not make a great difference anyway. The fact that some KDE3 apps are poorly maintained does not make any difference unless you have filed a bug for them. Even in times of KDE3 being 'well supported' so many bug reports have not been responded upon for years or not at all! Allowing to add KDE3 at install time will also facilitate the change to KDE4 since it is a common use case to run both - the KDE3 and the respecitive KDE4 app. in order to manually transfer ones user settings. #7: Karsten König (remur) (2009-08-23 22:25:29) (reply to #6) The user can add the KDE3 repository at install time or later and get all the kde3 apps as long as they compile. We don't want to make this look in any way supported, because it isn't and nobody wants to do it, this is for advanced users, and we expect them to be able to handle this themself. #10: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:15:09) (reply to #7) The feature request should possibly have been about making the KDE3 repo available at install time rather than adding it to the community list (could not file this request by myself; unfortunately can not change it.). Nonetheless I am not quite sure about the difference that would make. When is a repo considered to be in the community list? Selecting 'KDE3 - unsupported' in addition to KDE4 at install time would be nice thing; I think (see Feature 306967, Comment 89; https://features.opensuse.org/306967) #11: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 21:18:44) (reply to #10) a nice thing. #8: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 23:42:53) (reply to #6) It does make a great difference for the user very well if the packages don't even build. And if you look at the KDE:KDE3 repository eg kdepim3 does not. #9: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-25 20:55:07) (reply to #8) I don`t understand what you mean. People add a binary repository in order not having to build packages. Who would care about building a package if it is available as binary?? - nobody (except a programmer applying custom changes). #12: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-26 02:05:31) (reply to #9) Perhaps that the source has to be compiled to create a binary and that currently doesn't happen because of some compilation errors?! If you want KDE 3 then I suggest you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 and fix the packages that are broken for Factory as it has been said over and over although none of the "OMG I need KDE 3 or the universe will collapse" folks ever could be bothered to do so. (KDE 3 isn't supported anymore, neither by upstream nor by Novell / openSUSE folks so it is up to you (the people who desperately want it)). Last but not least I would really appreciate it if you would finally stop spamming openFATE or the wiki to advertise your personal pet peeves. Thanks a lot in advance. #13: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:09:53) (reply to #12) The question must be allowed. Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working version of an unsupported program? We have version control. That should not be a problem at all! Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them for now! *** + #16: Stephan Kleine (bitshuffler) (2009-08-28 16:04:59) (reply to #13) + > Why don`t the KDE3 maintainers simply check out the latest working + version of an unsupported program? + + Cause those programs depend on external libraries and once those get + changed the programs have to be adapted. If you think you can do it + better go ahead and fix the stuff. I'm sure all the other "We need KDE3 + or I will stop using openSUSE" whiners will be happy to help you. + + > Destroying the compilability of KDE3 program to make users switch to + its KDE4 pendant is no good common practice! + + This makes no sense because no one is doing that. The compilation + failures arise because openSUSE 11.2 / Factory contains newer 3rd party + library versions than previous versions and some of them changed their + API so the programs that use them have to be addapted. + + > This is NOT spamming. *** OpenFate is here to express users need not + the preferences of developers, as we have excessively had to hear them + for now! *** + + No. I suggest you read the homepage for what it is and what it is not. + Regarding the spamming I would say that stuff that doesn't contribute + anything but some ongoing whining that stuff is different from what you + want it to be perfectly qualifies as such. See e.g. your comments in + the encrypted root feature or here #3, #4, #11 or the mere fact that + the last 3 comments here came from you within 15 minutes without adding + anything new / important / relevant. #15: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:33:44) (reply to #12) Well, I can provide fixes for some of them (like the konsole-enlarge-fontsize- bug), but not for all of them. Besides this it is no good common practice to block bug reporting facilities for more and more KDE3 programs. It should still be possible to report bugs even if we currently do not have a maintainer. #14: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-08-28 15:28:15) The truth is that KDE will lose a lot of users trying to force them out of KDE3 into KDE4/Gnome. Why not allow them to switch gradually, instead? As KDE4 programs get better and better users will use more and more of them. The least requirement I would demand for OpenSuse 11.2 is an own KDE3 - 'package group', because most of the 'we are happy with KDE3' - folk will be overcharged by having to install KDE3 core programs like kicker and kdesktop by single package selections on their own. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306733