Hi, if you want to speak public about tickets, can you make these ones also public, please?

Gesendet: Freitag, 06. November 2020 um 16:18 Uhr Von: "Lubos Kocman" An: "opensuse-factory@opensuse.org" Betreff: [opensuse-factory] Ad-hoc openSUSE s390x meeting 06.11.2020

Original meeting minutes: https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/ReleaseEngineering-20200611-s390x-openqa

Discussion about openSUSE/s390x

Attendees: Lubos, Oliver, Ihno Lubos: my understanding is that following is the issue https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/72880

Oliver: to summarize situation we don't have any commitment to get s390x maintaining Oliver this issue is currently specific for openSUSE: [o3][s390x] Early fail on s390x workers: connection refused https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/69328

The community is waiting for that since months. We can not do anything in this direction, because the mainframe is in the SUSE network.

Oliver: we need more commitment from QA department to maintain openQA/s390x or even SUSE as a whole.

Ihno: number of s390x guests has no real limits. Oliver: when we talk about openSUSE, the very single instance was either not fully used or working. Ihno: I can work on the cases where guests are not working.

Oliver: I'm Product Owner for maintaining openQA as a software as well as the infrastructure of openqa.opensuse.org. What is outside our scope is to fix tests, review the tests or getting the distribution published (not only for s390x). That is responsibility of "release managers".

Really? Is a Release Manager responsible for a working infrastructure for development? In my experience, there should be Admins for this job.

We are lucky to have Guillaume G. to keep ARM working. okurz was asked by Andrew Waafa at an openSUSE Conference what could be done and the advice was to simply ask every day or as often as possible about the state of the builds, why tests are not executed, report tickets, find the right people to delegate to, etc. . Agreement with Andrew Waffa in discussion to make openSUSE/ARM a thing

Ihno: it will be our top priority to get s390x/openQA working. If you need HW resources, we can give it to you. Lubos: we need to revisit our current dedicated QA resources with introduction of s390x in Leap Oliver: I don't think that the current contract works, reality is more like a reactive support which is nice but either there is no one asking or tickets are not properly triaged and ignored.

Ihno: externals can only do just a certain part of openQA work, many things have to be done by SUSE employees.

I agree. And that is the case here, too. SUSE is owner of the mainframe, because it has been used mainly for SUSE Linux Enterprise.

Oliver: We have a dedicated s390x "QE core" product owner for openQA tests, that is Timo Jyrinki https://confluence.suse.com/display/qasle/QE+squads+-+new+structure. The scope is basic test suite (install login and so on). For installer the product owner of the corresponding QE team is Rodion Iafarov.

Tasks:

Lubos to talk to Marita or possibly Ralf regarding dedicated resources in Leap 15.3 interlock document. We have more arches to support, we'll need more people to maintain openqa as well. Note by okurz: The important point to reach is the common understanding that openSUSE is part of SUSE's business. IBM are interested and happy about any "good publicity" for IBM Mainframes, i.e. s390x.

Lubos to see if we can find external IBM s390x/openSUSE contact. The problem is that the person would not have the possibility to fix all of the openqa issues due to the fact that some issues can be addressed only by SUSE Employees.

You don't have to look long. You have got an openSUSE Member and IBM employee in the community. https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-zsystems/2020-10/msg00000.html I have been working for IBM since October and have received the approval for openSUSE contributions at the end of the month. This week we had a small discussion how to proceed. IBM is watching that as a win-win situation to receive an openSUSE Member as an employee. We want to improve the cooperation on this way. I can do all necessary from IBM side. But I can not do that inside of SUSE (the mainframe issue case).

openqa.opensuse.org is available for administration for non-SUSE employees as well. See https://progress.opensuse.org/projects/openqav3/wiki/#Accessing-o3-infrastru... for details

Ihno: to reach out to Ralf U. regarding importance of s390x/openSUSE openqa and basic ticket triaging as a responsibility for the QE department. Current situation is bad no tests were finished in last 6 months or so and nothing was even communicated in tickets. Ihno: revisit current s390x resources for openQA. And make sure that they're online.

Oliver: I will update ticket and link it accordingly, but I would be really happy if Release Manager can first get commitment from not-only QE management.

Side note: we have only one power8 worker for openqa. Ihno: are build hosts and testing hosts in different network? Oliver: yes Success story from ARM: external machines not maintained by QE Tools team (within SUSE). openQA and openqa.opensuse.org can and is using any machine that is reachable over internet with sufficient bandwidth, e.g. cloud instances, physical machines at SUSE partners, etc. This is an opportunity for SUSE partners to have easier access with less effort to contribute to the testing of openSUSE and SUSE distributions.

I hope, that we can have that with IBM in the future, too. :)

Lubos: I'll consinder the Power topic for Leap 15.3 interlock as well. N�����r��y隊Z)z{.���r�+�맲��r��z�^�ˬz��N�(�֜��^� ޭ隊Z)z{.���r�+��0�����Ǩ�

Best regards, Sarah -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hello Sarah, Oliver must have already changed permissions. I could see both poo tickets without being logged in. Sorry for any inconvenience. On Fri, 2020-11-06 at 19:43 +0100, Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote:

Hi,

if you want to speak public about tickets, can you make these ones also public, please?

...

Gesendet: Freitag, 06. November 2020 um 16:18 Uhr Von: "Lubos Kocman" An: "opensuse-factory@opensuse.org" Betreff: [opensuse-factory] Ad-hoc openSUSE s390x meeting 06.11.2020

Original meeting minutes: https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/ReleaseEngineering-20200611-s390x-openqa

Discussion about openSUSE/s390x

Attendees: Lubos, Oliver, Ihno Lubos: my understanding is that following is the issue https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/72880

Oliver: to summarize situation we don't have any commitment to get s390x maintaining Oliver this issue is currently specific for openSUSE: [o3][s390x] Early fail on s390x workers: connection refused https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/69328

The community is waiting for that since months. We can not do anything in this direction, because the mainframe is in the SUSE network.

...

Oliver: we need more commitment from QA department to maintain openQA/s390x or even SUSE as a whole.

Ihno: number of s390x guests has no real limits. Oliver: when we talk about openSUSE, the very single instance was either not fully used or working. Ihno: I can work on the cases where guests are not working.

Oliver: I'm Product Owner for maintaining openQA as a software as well as the infrastructure of openqa.opensuse.org. What is outside our scope is to fix tests, review the tests or getting the distribution published (not only for s390x). That is responsibility of "release managers".

Really? Is a Release Manager responsible for a working infrastructure for development? In my experience, there should be Admins for this job.

...

We are lucky to have Guillaume G. to keep ARM working. okurz was asked by Andrew Waafa at an openSUSE Conference what could be done and the advice was to simply ask every day or as often as possible about the state of the builds, why tests are not executed, report tickets, find the right people to delegate to, etc. . Agreement with Andrew Waffa in discussion to make openSUSE/ARM a thing

Ihno: it will be our top priority to get s390x/openQA working. If you need HW resources, we can give it to you. Lubos: we need to revisit our current dedicated QA resources with introduction of s390x in Leap Oliver: I don't think that the current contract works, reality is more like a reactive support which is nice but either there is no one asking or tickets are not properly triaged and ignored.

Ihno: externals can only do just a certain part of openQA work, many things have to be done by SUSE employees.

I agree. And that is the case here, too. SUSE is owner of the mainframe, because it has been used mainly for SUSE Linux Enterprise.

...

Oliver: We have a dedicated s390x "QE core" product owner for openQA tests, that is Timo Jyrinki https://confluence.suse.com/display/qasle/QE+squads+-+new+structure . The scope is basic test suite (install login and so on). For installer the product owner of the corresponding QE team is Rodion Iafarov.

Tasks:

Lubos to talk to Marita or possibly Ralf regarding dedicated resources in Leap 15.3 interlock document. We have more arches to support, we'll need more people to maintain openqa as well. Note by okurz: The important point to reach is the common understanding that openSUSE is part of SUSE's business. IBM are interested and happy about any "good publicity" for IBM Mainframes, i.e. s390x.

Lubos to see if we can find external IBM s390x/openSUSE contact. The problem is that the person would not have the possibility to fix all of the openqa issues due to the fact that some issues can be addressed only by SUSE Employees.

You don't have to look long. You have got an openSUSE Member and IBM employee in the community. https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-zsystems/2020-10/msg00000.html

I have been working for IBM since October and have received the approval for openSUSE contributions at the end of the month. This week we had a small discussion how to proceed.

IBM is watching that as a win-win situation to receive an openSUSE Member as an employee. We want to improve the cooperation on this way.

I can do all necessary from IBM side. But I can not do that inside of SUSE (the mainframe issue case).

...

openqa.opensuse.org is available for administration for non-SUSE employees as well. See https://progress.opensuse.org/projects/openqav3/wiki/#Accessing-o3-infrastru... for details

Ihno: to reach out to Ralf U. regarding importance of s390x/openSUSE openqa and basic ticket triaging as a responsibility for the QE department. Current situation is bad no tests were finished in last 6 months or so and nothing was even communicated in tickets. Ihno: revisit current s390x resources for openQA. And make sure that they're online.

Oliver: I will update ticket and link it accordingly, but I would be really happy if Release Manager can first get commitment from not- only QE management.

Side note: we have only one power8 worker for openqa. Ihno: are build hosts and testing hosts in different network? Oliver: yes Success story from ARM: external machines not maintained by QE Tools team (within SUSE). openQA and openqa.opensuse.org can and is using any machine that is reachable over internet with sufficient bandwidth, e.g. cloud instances, physical machines at SUSE partners, etc. This is an opportunity for SUSE partners to have easier access with less effort to contribute to the testing of openSUSE and SUSE distributions.

I hope, that we can have that with IBM in the future, too. :)

...

Lubos: I'll consinder the Power topic for Leap 15.3 interlock as well. N�����r��y隊Z)z{.���r�+�맲��r��z�^�ˬz��N�(�֜��^� ޭ隊Z)z{.���r�+�� 0�����Ǩ�

Best regards, Sarah

-- Lubos Kocman, Release Manager openSUSE Leap SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg - Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer

On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 13:58:38 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

Hi!

On 11/6/20 4:18 PM, Lubos Kocman wrote:

...

Oliver: to summarize situation we don't have any commitment to get s390x maintaining Oliver this issue is currently specific for openSUSE: [o3][s390x] Early fail on s390x workers: connection refused https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/69328

The main problem with s390x is that the hardware is way more expensive to what normal people within an open source community can afford.

It would actually be nice if IBM developed a slimmed down version of the s390x hardware purely for community purposes, i.e. some sort of evaluation board.

That would be awesome, but I don't have high hopes Others would be helpful too: e.g. HP's Itanium and PA-RISC2

I would also be still interested in getting more architectures added to openSUSE but so far there seems to be zero interest from the community.

In Debian, I'm maintaining ports for multiple architectures including Alpha, HPPA, Motorola 68000, 32-bit and 64-bit PowerPC (BE), SuperH and SPARC. It would be nice to have openSUSE built on some of these as well (except for PPC which we already have). Especially SPARC would be cool as the hardware is extremely fast (up to 5 GHz, 32 cores).

Adrian

-- H.Merijn Brand https://tux.nl Perl Monger http://amsterdam.pm.org/ using perl5.00307 .. 5.33 porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and Linux https://useplaintext.email https://www.test-smoke.org http://qa.perl.org http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

Hello! On 11/9/20 2:41 PM, Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote:

...

That would be awesome, but I don't have high hopes

IBM is sponsoring something as that via the Open Mainframe Project. https://www.openmainframeproject.org/

Everybody can receive free access to a LinuxONE instance to test his software. We want to provide communities all what is necessary to develop for s390x.

Yeah, I'm aware of these offerings but having a dedicated machine with full root access would still be nicer to tinkle around. For Debian Ports, IBM generously donated one POWER to which I have full access and I can even test kernel patches with. Not sure how far I would get there with the Open Mainframe Project. Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday, 9 November 2020 14.41.34 CET Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote:

...

Gesendet: Montag, 09. November 2020 um 14:27 Uhr Von: "H.Merijn Brand" An: "John Paul Adrian Glaubitz" Cc: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-factory] Ad-hoc openSUSE s390x meeting 06.11.2020

On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 13:58:38 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz

wrote:

...

Hi!

On 11/6/20 4:18 PM, Lubos Kocman wrote:

...

Oliver: to summarize situation we don't have any commitment to get s390x maintaining Oliver this issue is currently specific for openSUSE: [o3][s390x] Early fail on s390x workers: connection refused https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/69328

The main problem with s390x is that the hardware is way more expensive to what normal people within an open source community can afford.

It would actually be nice if IBM developed a slimmed down version of the s390x hardware purely for community purposes, i.e. some sort of evaluation board.

That would be awesome, but I don't have high hopes

IBM is sponsoring something as that via the Open Mainframe Project. https://www.openmainframeproject.org/

Do you think it would be possible to use this as "openQA workers"? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Gesendet: Montag, 09. November 2020 um 17:35 Uhr Von: "Richard Brown" An: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-factory] Ad-hoc openSUSE s390x meeting 06.11.2020

On Mon, 2020-11-09 at 17:27 +0100, Oliver Kurz wrote:

...

On Monday, 9 November 2020 14.41.34 CET Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote:

...

...

IBM is sponsoring something as that via the Open Mainframe Project. https://www.openmainframeproject.org/

Do you think it would be possible to use this as "openQA workers"?

Travis CI is using the LinuxONE Community Cloud (for s390x tests for open source projects on Github available), too. I can ask, whether we are allowed to do that with openQA. I believe, that we will be asked why we don't use the SUSE mainframe.

It wasn't when I looked at it when the Open Mainframe project started in 2015

Best regards, Sarah

Regards,

-- Richard Brown Linux Distribution Engineer - Future Technology Team

Phone +4991174053-361 SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/9/20 2:27 PM, H.Merijn Brand wrote:

...

It would actually be nice if IBM developed a slimmed down version of the s390x hardware purely for community purposes, i.e. some sort of evaluation board.

That would be awesome, but I don't have high hopes

Others would be helpful too: e.g. HP's Itanium and PA-RISC2

PA-RISC is very stable and has rather good upstream support (toolchain and kernel). The only thing that's currently missing is LLVM/Rust and OpenJDK Zero due to the fact that HPPA has an upward-growing stack (why would anyone do that ;-)). I have started working on OpenJDK Zero for PA-RISC though and will finish it at some point. Itanium is currently a bit more tricky. For one, kernels > 4.14 don't run on larger NUMA systems and the other thing is that Ruby 2.7 dropped support for Itanium. OpenJDK runs fine, LLVM/Rust is missing as LLVM dropped IA64 support at some point. M68k is very promising as it has a very strong community, especially for being such an old port and is even about to get an LLVM backend [1] (which means Rust on the Amiga :D). We also recently got a new QEMU pure virtual machine type for M68k [2] which will make the target very attractive for OBS. I would love to see a public m68k openSUSE port in OBS, that would be really cool. Adrian

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6zXXPRl-QI [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ve0bCC9q4 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Sarah! On 11/6/20 7:43 PM, Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote:

You don't have to look long. You have got an openSUSE Member and IBM employee in the community. https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-zsystems/2020-10/msg00000.html

I have been working for IBM since October and have received the approval for openSUSE contributions at the end of the month. This week we had a small discussion how to proceed.

IBM is watching that as a win-win situation to receive an openSUSE Member as an employee. We want to improve the cooperation on this way.

I can do all necessary from IBM side. But I can not do that inside of SUSE (the mainframe issue case).

In case there is any interest from IBM's side regarding Debian on s390x, Debian currently has no dedicated maintainer for the s390x port in the upcoming Bullseye release [1]. So, in case there is any interest from IBM's side with regard Debian's s390x port, I suggest reaching out to the debian-s390 mailing list. (Yes, I know this is the openSUSE Factory list ;-)). Adrian

[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-s390/2020/11/msg00001.html