On Mon, 24 May 2010, Vincent Untz wrote:

We chatted a bit about this on irc a few days ago. The main issue will likely be that the legal review might take some time, which means it'll really be too late for 11.3 :/ But I'd love to have webm support in 11.3, indeed.

How about shipping if after the release, in case? Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer gp@novell.com | SUSE Linux Products GmbH Director Product Management | HRB 16746 (AG Nuremberg) SUSE Linux Enterprise, openSUSE, Appliances | GF Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag, 25. Mai 2010, 21:29:23 schrieb Andrew Wafaa:

On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 21:10 +0200, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:

...

On Mon, 24 May 2010, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

We chatted a bit about this on irc a few days ago. The main issue will likely be that the legal review might take some time, which means it'll really be too late for 11.3 :/ But I'd love to have webm support in 11.3, indeed.

How about shipping if after the release, in case?

Only issue with that is *everyone* will be doing that, and as such we will have no edge over our counterparts. I would love to see it shipped with 11.3, but what with the MPEG-LA grumbling and even the OSI make some less than positive noises, I can't see that happening.

Regards,

Andy

I don't see the benefit for haste here, flash is a somewhat working solution, it's not like we are loosing out if we don't provide it right now. Comments on the web don't sound very fond of the current codebase, anything shipped with 11.3 wants to be supported, when flash crashes we know where to point =) Using konqui or any other phonon based app will propably be able to use it when the pacman team decides to ship it in xine, ffmpeg, gstreamer etc. Karsten PS: I am looking forward to kicking flash from my system as well, but VP8 isn't the knight in white armor just yet. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le mardi 25 mai 2010, à 21:40 +0200, Cristian Morales Vega a écrit :

What's exactly needed? - Chromium and Firefox? I don't really know, but I expect them to use xine/gstreamer/whatever for the multimedia support. So, nothing to do?

I'm afraid that firefox uses the libraries directly, and not a framework.

- ffmpeg? We don't provide it, Packman does. And Packman updates it continously... it will be available when it's ready, independently of openSUSE releases. - GStreamer? If the legal team decides we can't provide a VP8 decoder we are again in the same situation than with ffmpeg. Otherwise I don't expect a VP8 GStreamer plugin to require the *latest* version of GStreamer, so we can always provide it after the release if we really want. Otherwise it will be available in an OBS repository anyway...

The gstreamer plugin is part of gstreamer-plugins-$something, so we'll need a new version of this, or we'll have to hack something ourselves (which is not fun). Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le mardi 25 mai 2010, à 21:54 +0200, Martin Schlander a écrit :

Tirsdag den 25. maj 2010 21:51:14 skrev Vincent Untz:

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The gstreamer plugin is part of gstreamer-plugins-$something, so we'll need a new version of this, or we'll have to hack something ourselves (which is not fun).

Won't just about everybody get ffmpeg and gstreamer from packman anyway?

I don't think it's the right approach for codecs where legal is happy to have them in openSUSE. I mean, we can stop providing the gstreamer packages in Factory if that's the way we consider things ;-) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

El 25/05/10 15:40, Cristian Morales Vega escribió:

What's exactly needed? - Chromium and Firefox? I don't really know, but I expect them to use xine/gstreamer/whatever for the multimedia support. So, nothing to do?

What is exactly needed is getting browser vendors top stop bundling $crapload of modified libraries in-tree. Both Chrome and Firefox are a mess in this respect. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 05/25/2010 10:18 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 25/05/10 15:40, Cristian Morales Vega escribió:

...

What's exactly needed? - Chromium and Firefox? I don't really know, but I expect them to use xine/gstreamer/whatever for the multimedia support. So, nothing to do?

What is exactly needed is getting browser vendors top stop bundling $crapload of modified libraries in-tree.

I see both sides. - They don't want to differ between Linux and other operating system where they need to ship the libraries anyway. - They want have the same issues everywhere (supportability) - They ship in many cases newer stuff than Linux distributions (e.g. vorbis, theora, cairo) for different (mainly valid) reasons The "modified" in your sentence is not that extreme. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 05/27/2010 04:36 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2010 07:42:32 +0200, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

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- They ship in many cases newer stuff than Linux distributions (e.g. vorbis, theora, cairo) for different (mainly valid) reasons

And at least Google folks seem to make it a habit to not send modifications upstreams. Going the goole way will mean having the same dll hell as windows which is a maintenance nightmare.

At least Mozilla has a much better track record in upstreaming their stuff. In case of theora they are working close together with Xiph (and even spent quite a lot of money to sponsor theora improvements). There are bad examples as libpng though where upstream maintainers are not willing to take extensions for apng. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 05/27/2010 03:50 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 27/05/10 01:47, Wolfgang Rosenauer escribió: .

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There are bad examples as libpng though where upstream maintainers are not willing to take extensions for apng.

Well, why not then apng is made a separate library that depends or libpng or something similar that does not require bundling the full library into Mozilla ?

Depends on who you ask? I could probably do that but what is the big win? I know that all mozilla based apps would use it if I put the work in to build it that way. So we could share it between probably 3 apps. Does it make a difference? Why APNG is not a library on top of PNG I don't know and I'm not going to change that myself. I wouldn't expect anything like that from Mozilla because they have to win exactly nothing but more work and uncertainty about their behaviour. I understand the Unix/Linux philosophy and there is a reason why NSPR and NSS are separate components because I've driven that in the past. But every component is an extra decision and we have to find a good compromise for them and need to check pros and cons carefully. I don't see too many pros on the apng example right now. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org