[opensuse-factory] Re: More about the KDE Live CD
On 05/27/2012 02:11 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
One cannot but ask, after all the years of being hassle-free, why the current problems with building the Live CDs?
I am not sure that the Live CDs have been hassle free!
The House of Cards called openSUSE about to collapse in the foreseeable future?
For the Doom-and-Gloom crowd, the answer is "perhaps". As I see it, there have been many problems. Perhaps there is an overall shortage of people to do the required tasks, and something may have to be dropped. There were also problems with the backend storage system and the entire build system that happened at a critical time. The boot system of the Live CDs is different than the other products, and it is difficult to debug. After working with building my own Live CDs for 5 days, I have learned a lot, but I still can do little more than report the symptoms to Coolo. Fixing anything will require a lot more knowledge. The specific problem with the Live CDs was related to the change in /usr that is part of 12.2. I have no idea why no new ones have been built. Both Gnome and KDE versions build here just fine. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 28/05/12 00:57, Larry Finger wrote:
On 05/27/2012 02:11 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
One cannot but ask, after all the years of being hassle-free, why the current problems with building the Live CDs?
I am not sure that the Live CDs have been hassle free!
The House of Cards called openSUSE about to collapse in the foreseeable future?
For the Doom-and-Gloom crowd, the answer is "perhaps".
No "Doom and Gloom" crowd - just some people who have the Boy Scout motto of "Be Prepared" in mind :-) .
As I see it, there have been many problems. Perhaps there is an overall shortage of people to do the required tasks, and something may have to be dropped.
I think that this has become quite obvious to anyone who is capable of reading "between the lines". (And yet I misinterpreted a post by Stephan about a new project he started thinking that it was something he stated in a moment of coming up with "a funny". Eh, I was wrong it appears and got "roasted" for it :-) . Mea culpa :-( .)
There were also problems with the backend storage system and the entire build system that happened at a critical time. The boot system of the Live CDs is different than the other products, and it is difficult to debug. After working with building my own Live CDs for 5 days, I have learned a lot, but I still can do little more than report the symptoms to Coolo. Fixing anything will require a lot more knowledge.
I have wished for a very long time that I had the knowledge and ability to be able to handle programming. But I don't. If I did have this aptitude I would trying to give assistance.
The specific problem with the Live CDs was related to the change in /usr that is part of 12.2.
Sounds strange. No real analysis of potential consequences of such a course of action? A spur of the moment decision by someone without any peer review perhaps - something akin to how Tumbleweed got off the ground? Really immaterial now as the damage has already been done from what you state.
I have no idea why no new ones have been built.
Because no one has the knowledge or has control over, or can direct the direction of, what should be done re the project?
Both Gnome and KDE versions build here just fine.
At least this is a blessing and at least there is someone who has the ability and the knowledge to keep the Live CDs going. A couple of weeks ago I was going to give my doctor a copy of a Live KDE CD because his Windows system was "compromised" but stopped myself from doing so because I didn't want to feel like a jerk giving a person something which required one to be a geek to try and get the CD to even boot properly. Enviously, because of my lack of ability, I wish you all the very best in getting the CDs to work as they used to :-) . Kind regards, Basil -- Using openSUSE 12.1 x86_64 KDE 4.8.3 and kernel 3.4.0 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
* Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> [05-28-12 03:59]:
On 28/05/12 00:57, Larry Finger wrote: ...
The specific problem with the Live CDs was related to the change in /usr that is part of 12.2.
Sounds strange. No real analysis of potential consequences of such a course of action? A spur of the moment decision by someone without any peer review perhaps - something akin to how Tumbleweed got off the ground?
Really immaterial now as the damage has already been done from what you state.
You are off-base here, Basil. There was long voluminous discussion re "/usr" and no relation to "Tumbleweed" which *just* works and I can say that from first hand experience. Don't understand your reference to "Tumbleweed" here, might as well have said Fedora or *buntu.
I have no idea why no new ones have been built.
Because no one has the knowledge or has control over, or can direct the direction of, what should be done re the project?
No, took someone with time and interest *and* ability. Control, ??? Remember it is opensource. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/28/2012 02:56 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 28/05/12 00:57, Larry Finger wrote:
The specific problem with the Live CDs was related to the change in /usr that is part of 12.2.
Sounds strange. No real analysis of potential consequences of such a course of action? A spur of the moment decision by someone without any peer review perhaps - something akin to how Tumbleweed got off the ground?
Really immaterial now as the damage has already been done from what you state.
I won't reiterate the issue here, but there are very good reasons to make this change.
I have no idea why no new ones have been built.
Because no one has the knowledge or has control over, or can direct the direction of, what should be done re the project?
Both Gnome and KDE versions build here just fine.
At least this is a blessing and at least there is someone who has the ability and the knowledge to keep the Live CDs going.
At the moment, I am just a tester. I don't have the knowledge to fix things that break, but can only report them. I hope to overcome the deficiency, but perhaps in due time. In fact, the Gnome build broke yesterday for unknown reasons. KDE still builds and runs.
A couple of weeks ago I was going to give my doctor a copy of a Live KDE CD because his Windows system was "compromised" but stopped myself from doing so because I didn't want to feel like a jerk giving a person something which required one to be a geek to try and get the CD to even boot properly.
The released versions (11.4 and 12.1) boot and run properly other than the problems with KMS video drivers, but that is a kernel issue, not a problem with openSUSE. These problems have all been with 12.2.
Enviously, because of my lack of ability, I wish you all the very best in getting the CDs to work as they used to :-) .
Thanks, Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/28/2012 02:40 PM, Larry Finger wrote:
On 05/28/2012 02:56 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 28/05/12 00:57, Larry Finger wrote:
The specific problem with the Live CDs was related to the change in /usr that is part of 12.2.
Sounds strange. No real analysis of potential consequences of such a course of action? A spur of the moment decision by someone without any peer review perhaps - something akin to how Tumbleweed got off the ground?
Really immaterial now as the damage has already been done from what you state.
I won't reiterate the issue here, but there are very good reasons to make this change.
I have no idea why no new ones have been built.
Because no one has the knowledge or has control over, or can direct the direction of, what should be done re the project?
Both Gnome and KDE versions build here just fine.
At least this is a blessing and at least there is someone who has the ability and the knowledge to keep the Live CDs going.
At the moment, I am just a tester. I don't have the knowledge to fix things that break, but can only report them. I hope to overcome the deficiency, but perhaps in due time. In fact, the Gnome build broke yesterday for unknown reasons. KDE still builds and runs.
A couple of weeks ago I was going to give my doctor a copy of a Live KDE CD because his Windows system was "compromised" but stopped myself from doing so because I didn't want to feel like a jerk giving a person something which required one to be a geek to try and get the CD to even boot properly.
The released versions (11.4 and 12.1) boot and run properly other than the problems with KMS video drivers, but that is a kernel issue, not a problem with openSUSE. These problems have all been with 12.2.
Enviously, because of my lack of ability, I wish you all the very best in getting the CDs to work as they used to :-) .
Thanks,
Larry
I am writing this using http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/openSUSE-KDE-LiveCD-x86_64-Build038... so in conclusion it boots I was able to download thunderbird which I am using wireless works firefox works -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 29/05/12 00:40, Larry Finger wrote:
On 05/28/2012 02:56 AM, Basil Chupin wrote: [.............]
because his Windows system was "compromised" but stopped myself from doing so because I didn't want to feel like a jerk giving a person something which required one to be a geek to try and get the CD to even boot properly. A couple of weeks ago I was going to give my doctor a copy of a Live KDE CD
The released versions (11.4 and 12.1) boot and run properly other than the problems with KMS video drivers, but that is a kernel issue, not a problem with openSUSE. These problems have all been with 12.2.
Correct, but the problem with the driver is a "show-stopper" when giving someone, who has known nothing but Windows in their life, a LIVE CD to get them to try out what openSUSE looks like (not only a bad reflection on oS but a very poor reflection on Linux distros generally; a major blemish in one reflects on all).
getting the CDs to work as they used to :-) . Enviously, because of my lack of ability, I wish you all the very best in
Thanks,
Larry
And may I offer you my (our collective) Thanks for getting the problem sorted out! I downloaded the Beta LIVE CD and it boots into live-mode without any problems - no "nomodetest", nothing! :-) One's spirit has been lifted once again and the future looks bright :-) . Basil -- Using openSUSE 12.1 x86_64 KDE 4.8.3 and kernel 3.4.1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 28/05/12 21:50, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> [05-28-12 03:59]:
On 28/05/12 00:57, Larry Finger wrote: ...
The specific problem with the Live CDs was related to the change in /usr that is part of 12.2. Sounds strange. No real analysis of potential consequences of such a course of action? A spur of the moment decision by someone without any peer review perhaps - something akin to how Tumbleweed got off the ground?
Really immaterial now as the damage has already been done from what you state. You are off-base here, Basil. There was long voluminous discussion re "/usr" and no relation to "Tumbleweed" which *just* works and I can say that from first hand experience. Don't understand your reference to "Tumbleweed" here, might as well have said Fedora or *buntu.
If you are unable to grasp the full context of what is being written then stay out of the conversation. Re the reference to Tumbleweed: where is there a claim that it doesn't "*just* works"? There is no mention in any shape or form about Tumbleweed's efficacy or otherwise. Of course you don't understand the reference to Tumbleweed here - because you don't read. See if you can understand this: On 19 April 2012, Bryen M Yunashko wrote this in the mail list opensuse-project: /quote Along came a community member, who just so happened to be a SUSE employee at the time, who said "Let's create Tumbleweed!" There was no formal approval process to make Tumbleweed allowed. It just happened, through the goodness of our community efforts. Not everyone uses it, some still prefer to go release-to-release, and others prefer a rolling release. /unquote Has the light come on yet? BC -- Using openSUSE 12.1 x86_64 KDE 4.8.3 and kernel 3.4.1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/06/2012 01:12 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Correct, but the problem with the driver is a "show-stopper" when giving someone, who has known nothing but Windows in their life, a LIVE CD to get them to try out what openSUSE looks like (not only a bad reflection on oS but a very poor reflection on Linux distros generally; a major blemish in one reflects on all).
And may I offer you my (our collective) Thanks for getting the problem sorted out! I downloaded the Beta LIVE CD and it boots into live-mode without any problems - no "nomodetest", nothing! :-)
One's spirit has been lifted once again and the future looks bright :-) .
The successful booting of any Live CD on any particular piece of hardware depends on that hardware! There will always be someone for whom it will not work. As long as there are hardware manufacturers that do not test their systems with Linux the way they do with Winblows, that situation will continue. All we can do is fix the software bugs that prevent booting on *ALL* computers, and hope that the open-source video drivers get better.. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Basil Chupin -
Dale Ritchey -
Larry Finger -
Patrick Shanahan