On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 07:31:40PM -0400, Andreas van dem Helge wrote:

Nothing. Can not install and boot into a desktop with either 10.3, 11 A2 or A3. RAID driver isn't detected at all in any version.

software raid? You should never use hardware raid, it just is a bad idea for so many reasons... As the latest 11 releases don't work, I'd guess that Linux isn't working on this chipset yet, sorry. Try working with the kernel.org kernel developers to get it up and running. Or contact AMD, they have been very good in the past about making sure their hardware works properly on Linux, I'm kind of supprised this doesn't. thanks, greg k-h --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:34:23PM -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:

Greg KH pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 07:31:40PM -0400, Andreas van dem Helge wrote:

...

Nothing. Can not install and boot into a desktop with either 10.3, 11 A2 or A3. RAID driver isn't detected at all in any version. software raid? You should never use hardware raid, it just is a bad idea for so many reasons...

WHAT! You do realize that many people use quite reliable hardware raid controllers don't you? To blatantly tell someone that hardware raid is bad is pure hogwash, especially coming from a kernel developer. There are very reliable SATA and SCSI controllers available that provide hardware raid without problems.

And I recommend that you, and everyone else, avoid them like the plague for the reasons pointed out by others already. Linux does very good, and much faster, software raid today just fine, if you need RAID, stick with that. If you must also boot other operating systems on your hardware, then of course, don't use software raid, but also, don't complain when things don't work well either. thanks, greg k-h --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 09:50:14AM -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:

Greg KH pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:34:23PM -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:

...

Greg KH pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 07:31:40PM -0400, Andreas van dem Helge wrote:

...

Nothing. Can not install and boot into a desktop with either 10.3, 11 A2 or A3. RAID driver isn't detected at all in any version. software raid? You should never use hardware raid, it just is a bad idea for so many reasons... WHAT! You do realize that many people use quite reliable hardware raid controllers don't you? To blatantly tell someone that hardware raid is bad is pure hogwash, especially coming from a kernel developer. There are very reliable SATA and SCSI controllers available that provide hardware raid without problems. And I recommend that you, and everyone else, avoid them like the plague for the reasons pointed out by others already.

And I recommend that you first back up your claim with hard evidence. Until you do it is only your opinion.

{sigh} I have never said it is anything _but_ my opinion.

Software RAID can never be faster than "true" hardware RAID, it can only be as fast as the drives used.

Mind explaining how hardware raid can be faster than the drives used? And I never said it would be "faster", only more stable and actually supported by the kernel community, and probably work out much better in the end. If you don't want to believe this, fine, I'm not keeping you from going out and spending a lot of money on hardware that doesn't really offer up much benifit, it's your time and data :)

That's like saying a software modem is better than a hardware modem.

Apples to oranges? No comparison, sorry.

...

Linux does very good, and much faster, software raid today just fine, if you need RAID, stick with that.

Is this the part of the kernel you support and therefore have a biased opinion?

No, but I know the people who do support this portion of the kernel, and share their biased opinion because I think they know what they are talking about. let's end this thread please, it is pretty much off-topic now. thanks, greg k-h --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi, I just found following words on the web, this maybe help us to understanded whether hardware RAID or not. :) Many controllers on the market, or coming on the market are sold as "RAID controllers", but this term have become increasingly ambiguous over time. * Sometimes the term refers to controllers where the OS driver is mostly unaware of the underlying disk devices attached to the controller. The OS driver only sees RAID arrays, and uses RAID-specific commands to read/write data. These controllers are what I call true hardware RAID. * Sometimes the term refers to controllers where the OS driver and card's on-board flash BIOS provide 100 percent of the RAID capability. This is called software RAID, or less flatteringly, fake RAID. * Occasionally, the term refers to controllers that have special features designed to enhance RAID, but still the OS driver must use normal ATA or SCSI commands to talk to the underlying disk devices. I classify these unique controllers as RAID accelerators, as they fall somewhere in between hardware RAID and software RAID. you can get the more info about RAID & Linux, from http://linux-ata.org/faq-sata-raid.html Thanks Flex

...

...

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 3:19 PM, in message <1436d8d40803280019o7eaa9a35vee30265a5c172553@mail.gmail.com>, "Birger Kollstrand" wrote: Hi ,

Can you please elaborate on what you mean that hw raid is always a bad idea?

Regards Birger

2008/3/28, Greg KH :

...

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 07:31:40PM -0400, Andreas van dem Helge wrote:

...

Nothing. Can not install and boot into a desktop with either 10.3, 11 A2 or A3. RAID driver isn't detected at all in any version.

software raid? You should never use hardware raid, it just is a bad idea for so many reasons...

As the latest 11 releases don't work, I'd guess that Linux isn't working on this chipset yet, sorry. Try working with the kernel.org kernel developers to get it up and running. Or contact AMD, they have been very good in the past about making sure their hardware works properly on Linux, I'm kind of supprised this doesn't.

thanks,

greg k-h

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 10:49 PM, Greg KH wrote:

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 07:31:40PM -0400, Andreas van dem Helge wrote:

...

Nothing. Can not install and boot into a desktop with either 10.3, 11 A2 or A3. RAID driver isn't detected at all in any version.

software raid? You should never use hardware raid, it just is a bad idea for so many reasons...

Because if I use software RAID it breaks dual booting... then Windows is on a single drive and Linux is RAIDed but I can't access the Linux partition from Windows. So hardware RAID is better in this sense. Yes... on a Linux-only (mainly servers) system I'll use software RAID vs the "cheap" integrated RAID but on dual boot systems there is no other option. And your statement is wrong. Please don't tell me that a software RAID is better than a 3ware RAID card with its own cache RAM, backup battery & processor... especially for the more advanced RAID setups vs basic RAID 0/1. So I'll ask my question again: What should I look at? What should I log? Etc, etc... to help you guys get support for this brand-new chipset? Let's stop arguing over trivial matters and personal preferences and just work together to make things work. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

I don't know how I can get a kernel log from a system that won't boot. I've tried two main boards already: ECS A780GM Gigabyte GA-MA78GM None can install and boot SuSE with success. I've tried Alpha 2 &3. I can't try factory becuse: 1) There's no install ISO 2) There's no network boot ISO (tried 10.3 mini and giving it the factory repo, that doesnt work. Install GUI wont even load) 3) Can't get any version of SuSE to install and run, so cant update to factory that way. The furthest I've gotten is install SuSE 11.0 A3 (if I use the default partition scheme with extended partitions it gives an error when it trys to partition) and then get the bootloader screen. When I select to boot into SuSE it just hangs with 3 or 4 lines on the screen. I think these are the normal parameters that are always passed to the Kernel upon boot... there is no error message. FWIW on the Gigabyte board with SATA mode in BIOS set to "AHCI" I can boot 10.3 installer and it sees the Maxtor drive I had installed at the time, but I did not attempt to go any further. So if you could please tell me exactly what logs you want and how to obtain them I'd be glad to provide them. I also have the error message 11.0 A3 installer gives when trying to create an extended partition (as a picture) so please let me know how to submit that as well. On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Greg KH wrote:

On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 09:40:42PM -0400, Andreas van dem Helge wrote:

...

Is the new ATI 780G chipset supposed to work (sound, RAID, LAN & graphics) under any current OpenSuSE alpha? If not what needs to be done to have that support added before final release?

Last time, I asked that you post the specifics of what exactly did not work, and any kernel log files from any errors.

Can you please do this? To the list, not directly to me.

thanks,

greg k-h

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org